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NeoGAF Ban Review/Justice Project (Off-Topic Edition)

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
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May 30, 2004
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Pick better friends, Yoshi. It's not hard.

Then maybe stop supporting a known racist who pushes racist policies and constantly spews racist rhetoric and is also the figure head of a racist party that has been the home of virulent racists for decades? Just the other day we had tapes come out about Reagan and Nixon casually throwing around racial slurs. The same Reagan who is one of the idols of the party itself. This not something new. This is not imaginary. This something that has been a stigma attached to the Republican party for decades.


Maybe I am just crazy, but that seems like a good place to start. If you don't wanna be called a racist then don't associate yourself with racists or a party that is popular with racists. That doesn't seem like rocket science to me though.



Also just to be clear I am not saying there is no hypocrisy surrounding the Baltimore comments in particular. I am just talking about in general here when it comes to supporting Trump and his associates. Because if I were to meet you for the first time and know almost nothing about you and all your friends are racists and they throw around racial slurs or hold racist views then I am gonna go ahead and assume you are a racist as well because you are with them and you consider them friends. If you don't want people to make that assumption then pick better friends. It's not hard. You are not immune from the views of the people you support or associate with even if you don't agree with them. The fact you are with them or supporting them in the first place is gonna cause people to make assumptions. There is no way to prevent that from happening.
 

BraveOne

Member
Feb 2, 2017
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You can fuck right off with this shit. You, @AfricanKing , Nobody_Important and a couple others coordinate your bullshit narrative on this forum because you just have to push that evil white man ideology and sexist males crap. NI has brought this on himself, not gonna feel sorry for his ass. Don't use me as your scape goat. And just to stoke the fire a bit, yeah you SJW's are a cancer, you are sowing the seeds of anger and racism and violence because you want to watch this world burn.
And point proven. You are almost incapable of having a discussion with. Your only aim is to lob insults are attack other users. It really has to stop in all honestly and maybe try engaging users on the topic at hand rather than making off-topic comments about meta bullshit.
 

Solomeena

Member
Jan 8, 2018
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And point proven. You are almost incapable of having a discussion with. Your only aim is to lob insults are attack other users. It really has to stop in all honestly and maybe try engaging users on the topic at hand rather than making off-topic comments about meta bullshit.
When you stop blaming white people and conservatives for all your problems, i will take what you say hypocritically more seriously. Until then, pot calling the kettle black.
 

BraveOne

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Feb 2, 2017
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When you stop blaming white people and conservatives for all your problems, i will take what you say hypocritically more seriously. Until then, pot calling the kettle black.
Again this is your constant refusal to engage, I think saying all my post blame white people is very idiotic and lacks any and if not all context. Post something like comments and proof rather than a plain statement. You need to stop taking outside issues into threads that are not connected.

You've done nothing but prove my point with your behaviour in this thread.
 

Solomeena

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Jan 8, 2018
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I am not his mouthpiece, but several members here, including you, consitently treat NI completely disrespectful for no good reason at all. In this specific discussion here, about the ban, I have talked to NI, obviously, but that's it. I think NI is a very nice person and one of the better posters on this forum, so for him to constantly be treated like an insane person is very unfair in my eyes, which is why I speak out on it. As I would everyone would do if one feels people are being treated unfairly.
God forbid someone calls out Nobody_Important who just types out what he wants to hear and has no intention of ever listening to anyone with constructive feedback or a different opinion from him. He is a narcissist at the very least and at worst an extreme left character. He does nothing but post inflammatory shit that keeps on blowing up in his face and when he is called out on it he doubles down on the false narrative of racism and sexism and likes to watch people get outed on twitter for mob justice. He deserves what is said and happens to him on these forums, he earned it all himself. Let me play a little violin for him and you, his mouthpiece.
 
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NickFire

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Mar 12, 2014
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God forbid someone calls out Nobody_Important who just types out what he wants to hear and has no intention of ever listening to anyone with constructive feedback or a different opinion from him. He is a narcissist at the very least and at worst an extreme left character. He does nothing but post inflammatory shit that keeps on blowing up in his face and when he is called out on it he doubles down on the false narrative of racism and sexism and likes to watch people get outed on twitter for mob justice. He deserves what is said and happens to him on these forums, he earned it all himself. Let me play a little violin for him and you, his mouthpiece.
Time to move on.
 

Solomeena

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Again this is your constant refusal to engage, I think saying all my post blame white people is very idiotic and lacks any and if not all context. Post something like comments and proof rather than a plain statement. You need to stop taking outside issues into threads that are not connected.

You've done nothing but prove my point with your behaviour in this thread.
Same goes for you that i said about @AfricanKing . Just go to search and type your name @BraveOne and put WHITE in the search bar and if you are not a liberal agitator your eyes will have all the proof you need. All i see on the first page of results for you is WHITE this and WHITE PRIVILEGE that. It just goes on and on and on and on and on and on, etc... You want to act all innocent and try to bs with a nothing burger reply to me and yet all the proof i need is your name and white.

From what? If people want to chat with me who am i to refuse? If they want to make a big stink about his ban, why can't i or others reply?
 
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BraveOne

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Feb 2, 2017
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Same goes for you that i said about @AfricanKing . Just go to search and type your name @BraveOne and put WHITE in the search bar and if you are not a liberal agitator your eyes will have all the proof you need. All i see on the first page of results for you is WHITE this and WHITE PRIVILEGE that. It just goes on and on and on and on and on and on, etc... You want to act all innocent and try to bs with a nothing burger reply to me and yet all the proof i need is your name and white.



From what? If people want to chat with me who am i to refuse? If they want to make a big stink about his ban, why can't i or others reply?
You are still not posting any proof, this is the limit of any conversation someone can have with you, have you actually engaged in anything apart from that? I don't think so, you're way to one dimensional at this point - you've posted the same messages multiple times without any context.

It does get tiring and you have already shown in this thread that you are not capable of having a discussion that does not revolve around the person's post history. It's very telling about the type of person you are.

If you want to continue the conversation I'd be glad to take it to the PM
 
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Yoshi

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Pick better friends, Yoshi. It's not hard.
I am capable of picking friends full well. Nobody_Important has political views I do not share, be it in terms of issues one can joke about, or, if taken without any further context*, what you have quoted here, guilt by association. But for people to be friends it is not necssary to share the very same political views. I have friends who are similarly left-leaning as I am, but also communist friends, conservative friends, neoliberal friends, I even have two friends who vote for the AfD (far-right German party). I couldn't be friends with an outright racist, but other than that, differences in views are not that important for friendship, what counts is that people are upright, share a common language and understanding, are open and honest. I feel NI has all these properties and while we certainly have our disagreements, it is just important to be respectul of the other person's views.


* I assume though that he is talking political friends here, not personal friends, which does change the context pretty significantly.


I just did, anyone can search YOUR NAME and the word WHITE or WHITE PEOPLE and be amazed at your hatred and scape goating of your problems.
I have ben here for quite a while and as a white person myself (no person of colour in my family line for at least three generations prior) I have never once felt that AfricanKing was hateful to me or my ethnicity at all.
 

hariseldon

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Aug 22, 2018
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I remember a time when the ban hammer was savage in terms of quantity and in pretty much most cases there was no need to question it. A huge part of me misses that and a part of me doesn't. Post collapse of the moderation team it seems like people want an explanation for almost every ban that occurs here now, while I think it's pretty cool that EviLore supplements users with reasoning for the bans, I think it's straight-up weird and I still can't get used to it. I think the way things are set up now is transparent enough, having to constantly discuss why someone is banned shows a lack of faith in the direction we're going. To be honest I don't think we're even owed explanations at this point given the restructuring of the mod team and how things are generally run here now.
Accountability breeds good decisions.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
May 30, 2004
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So one would presume on that basis that you have no problem with Twitter banning people for hashtags then, a website owner has the right to deplatform according to his whims.
I do have a problem with it, yes. Twitter is acting more like a public utility, and they're self-described as a public square, so they should be consistent in their rules application and decide whether they're a publisher or a platform under the law.

You're misconstruing the point I was making, anyway. There's no distinction between "my thread" and any other thread here in terms of how it'll be policed. It's my responsibility to oversee the whole site regardless, and I'm accountable for all the moderation actions regardless of who ends up pulling the trigger. I'm not going to tie my hands just because I'm the thread starter.
 
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near

Member
Dec 6, 2007
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Accountability breeds good decisions.
Failing to justify said decisions doesn't demonstrate a lack of accountability. Having to justify every ban only reinforces the idea that we don't seem to understand where to draw the line when that line is already clear.
 
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Scopa

The Tribe Has Spoken
Oct 27, 2017
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What a load of crap to wake up to and read.

Some of the posters in this thread are so transparent. Always the same names. PoliGAF addicts, trolls and activists.

I haven’t even read the thread where the ban happened yet, but anyone with any observational skills (and without an agenda) can see that NI is a low effort parrot poster who chirps the same nonsense ad nauseum with a single goal in mind and that is to sow discord here. As others have stated, he has a history of this behaviour and then ignoring and running and hiding when he gets called out.

In a word, shitposter.

I’ve called him out before for it. In my mind, he’s an obvious troll.

I’d respect his right to post his opinions if he contributed anything else positive to this forum and wasn’t so attached to his single-minded crusade to stoke the fires, but he doesn’t, so I’m not going to feel sorry for him getting banned.
 

matt404au

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Apr 25, 2009
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The ban was well-deserved. He has been derailing threads around his NPD since he arrived last year and has shown repeatedly that he's not here for honest discussion, only to engage in moralising and self-aggrandizement. He's not as smart as he evidently believes he is but is just clever and devious enough to present his arguments in ways that convince low IQ users like AK and BO (heh, BO) and low EQ users like Yoshi that he's being genuine. Those who are capable of reading between the lines and focusing on actions rather than words clearly see him for what he is. As an example of these disingenuous actions, look at this example here. Any time he encounters an argument that he can't rebut, he either plays the victim or pulls some other weaselly move that allows him to duck out and continue his moralising elsewhere.

EL's main responsibility as the forum owner is ensuring its long term viability. This requires the forum to be healthy, and the best way to ensure a healthy forum is to instill a culture of truth and accountability. When these values are incentivised, and the reciprocal behaviours that NI so frequently displays are disincentivised, the forum is empowered to be self-policing and effectively runs on auto-pilot with minimal interference from moderators. But this is difficult. Policing overt behaviours like trigger words and insults is easy, but ultimately allows other more covert, devious, cancerous behaviours that can undermine the culture in the long term to fester. Personally, I think the mods are doing a great job of this now. There were some harsh lessons from the fallout of 2017 but as far as I can tell, they truly get it. Culture is everything and I believe that this temp ban for NI can serve as an inflection point and set a standard to either engage honestly or piss off.
 

Yoshi

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As an example of these disingenuous actions, look at this example here.
What exactly do you expect as an answer to reurgitated fringe-gun-nuts arguments that hold no basis in reality? This very same argument has ben discussed countless times on this forum with and without his involvement, deciding not to go down the same rabbit hole again, with someone who has continously been disrespectful to him even, is not disingenuous. If you think a couple of jews carrying firearms would have prevented the holocaust then I do not think this discussion can lead anywhere fruitful.

Keep in mind, before Hitler came to power, there were <600k jews in Germany. The Waffen-SS alone were 915k heavily armed men, then there were the SA (4.5 million people in 1934, before the SA got shrunk down) and public law enforcement. Considering, additionally, the creeping nature of the holocaust (they did not just start killing jews, it was a more complicated procedure with several steps in between), it is a pretty weak hyprothesis. Based on that, I cannot say that disengaging with this line of discussion can be considered disingenuous.
 
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D

Deleted member 752119

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Failing to justify said decisions doesn't demonstrate a lack of accountability. Having to justify every ban only reinforces the idea that we don't seem to understand where to draw the line when that line is already clear.
I don't think decisions need to be justified. I think the reasons for bans should be a bit more clear at times. Sometimes there's not a link to the post in the ban list and/or the ban reason is witty instead of informative. If the lines/rules are clear (and they are here IMO) just state what rule was broken. Make the ban page, or any responses when people question a ban in this thread, simple statements of what rules were broken. Then that list and this thread will serve to make clear to members (especially new ones as membership builds up) where the lines are.

In this case, the reasons were much clearer once EviLore linked the other thread where he'd been warned and we could all see NI being inflammatory throughout that thread. If EviLore had put a clearer ban reason on the ban page (that noted it was a history of this crap and not the one post/thread linked) and/or just replied with that and the link to the other thread to start with I think a lot of this bickering would have been avoided. I think most are fine with the temp ban after seeing all the recent posts that led to it.

I do appreciate that there's way more transparency about bans here than on other sites for sure. I think it's just something to aim to excel at given the history of the site before the exodus and how many people end up here after catching bans for vague reasons at ResetEra. Having reasonable lines in the sand that people are aware of and showing clearly that bans come from crossing those lines should appeal a lot from people getting ran off from sites with hivemind moderation. Again, I think they already do a good job of that for the most part and could just be a tad more thoughtful with the ban explanations and responses to bans that get questioned here by just linking to both the final post that copped the ban and any relevant recent stuff (if questioned, ban reason can just not history of warnings for similar etc.).

I like the vibe here (political shit I stay out of aside), so I’m not meaning to be critical. Just offering my few cents on how to keep things positive, improving and growing.
 
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Ornlu

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Oct 31, 2018
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What exactly do you expect as an answer to reurgitated fringe-gun-nuts arguments that hold no basis in reality? This very same argument has ben discussed countless times on this forum with and without his involvement, deciding not to go down the same rabbit hole again, with someone who has continously been disrespectful to him even, is not disingenuous. If you think a couple of jews carrying firearms would have prevented the holocaust then I do not think this discussion can lead anywhere fruitful.

Keep in mind, before Hitler came to power, there were <600k jews in Germany. The Waffen-SS alone were 915k heavily armed men, then there were the SA and public law enforcement. Considering, additionally, the creeping nature of the holocaust (they did not just start killing jews, it was a more complicated procedure with several steps in between), it is a pretty weak hyprothesis. Based on that, I cannot say that disengaging with this line of discussion can be considered disingenuous.
100k with firearms would sure as hell make for a fine deterrent. The point of an armed citizenry isn't to outright win an armed engagement with the State, it's to make it so costly that the State either decides to never test the populace due to fear of repercussions, or to make it so costly that said repercussions lead to a general revolution to overthrow the tyrannical State.

In addition, the creeping nature of the Holocaust is actually a really good illustration of why gun owners would not want to budge on keeping their firearms. What starts as "Just turn over your assault weapons" easily turns into assault weapons>"assault style" weapons> all long guns> handguns> any remaining firearms.
 

matt404au

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Apr 25, 2009
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What exactly do you expect as an answer to reurgitated fringe-gun-nuts arguments that hold no basis in reality? This very same argument has ben discussed countless times on this forum with and without his involvement, deciding not to go down the same rabbit hole again, with someone who has continously been disrespectful to him even, is not disingenuous. If you think a couple of jews carrying firearms would have prevented the holocaust then I do not think this discussion can lead anywhere fruitful.

Keep in mind, before Hitler came to power, there were <600k jews in Germany. The Waffen-SS alone were 915k heavily armed men, then there were the SA and public law enforcement. Considering, additionally, the creeping nature of the holocaust (they did not just start killing jews, it was a more complicated procedure with several steps in between), it is a pretty weak hyprothesis. Based on that, I cannot say that disengaging with this line of discussion can be considered disingenuous.
lol

Those are my own views, not regurgitated fringe gun nut arguments. I'm not a gun nut and quite enjoy not having them in Australia. In fact, I have only ever once held a gun when I went clay target shooting in New Zealand. I quite enjoyed it but it's not something I particularly care about engaging in on a regular basis and I don't feel like I need a gun for personal protection in Australia. However, America is not Australia and plays a different role in the world, most notably its cultural exporting of the ideals of free speech via its media.

The second amendment protects the first. You can argue against the need for the second amendment but you cannot argue against its purpose in protecting the first and must just be honest and admit that you don't agree with either. It's not a matter of one or the other -- they are inextricably linked. Do you honestly believe that 600k armed Jews would not have acted as a deterrent against an army of 915k? You don't think that the Waffen-SS would have behaved differently if they knew the people they were persecuting could have shot back? You don't think there would have been insubordination from some individuals who didn't want to risk their own lives for Hitler's ideals? Don't you think Hitler, being the monster he was, would have had insubordinate soldiers executed? How do you think the rest of the army would have responded to seeing their own executed in such circumstances? You can't frame 600k Jews as "a couple of Jews carrying firearms" then turn around and call me the disingenuous one.

NI's behaviour was disingenuous because he was already actively engaged in the discussion and was responding to similar but easier to tackle arguments. He's not arguing to explore ideas and attempt to find truth; he's arguing to push his morality on others. If his position is so obviously correct, it should've been easy to dismantle my arguments, but instead he copped out and ducked out. Par for the course.
 

MrTickles

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I was speaking metaphorically, sigh. You can't extinguish an ideology through violent acts alone. You do it by assimilating it into a more potent ideology. A vaccum is filled with other ideologies. Dead and buried like Stalin (i.e Stalin died of natural causes and his ideology died with him).
 
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SonGoku

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Aug 16, 2018
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At first i was like wtf? but after reading the full conversation I agree with NI's ban, if you follow the conversation thread, NI's thread derailing intentions are clear
Its annoying when posters like him argue in bad faith, it makes discussions needlessly hostile in a passive aggressive way
 
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matt404au

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I was speaking metaphorically, sigh. You can't extinguish an ideology through violent acts alone. You do it by assimilating it into a more potent ideology. A vaccum is filled with other ideologies. Dead and buried like Stalin (i.e Stalin died of natural causes and his ideology died with him).
Welcome back bud
 
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Scopa

The Tribe Has Spoken
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I was speaking metaphorically, sigh. You can't extinguish an ideology through violent acts alone. You do it by assimilating it into a more potent ideology. A vaccum is filled with other ideologies. Dead and buried like Stalin (i.e Stalin died of natural causes and his ideology died with him).
How’s the pinball? I stopped getting update alerts for that thread. Not sure if that’s a system error or there were no new posts just before your hiatus. Couldn’t remember the name of the thread in order to find it.
 

Solomeena

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I wasn't trying to criticize you. I just think its going in the wrong direction.
Sorry man, you are right. I took your advice anyways as you can see i stopped posting after replying to you.

I have ben here for quite a while and as a white person myself (no person of colour in my family line for at least three generations prior) I have never once felt that AfricanKing was hateful to me or my ethnicity at all.
Then you choose to be blind to his hatred of white people, which does not surprise me in the least you would reply with something like this. It is sad honestly you would choose to condone hatred but not surprised since you are NI's mouthpiece. I think that it is appropriate to consider you the Kellyanne Conway to Nobody_Important, making excuses for NI to continue to be small minded and yet you don't get paid like K.A.C.
 
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Solomeena

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What exactly do you expect as an answer to reurgitated fringe-gun-nuts arguments that hold no basis in reality? This very same argument has ben discussed countless times on this forum with and without his involvement, deciding not to go down the same rabbit hole again, with someone who has continously been disrespectful to him even, is not disingenuous. If you think a couple of jews carrying firearms would have prevented the holocaust then I do not think this discussion can lead anywhere fruitful.
You are so transparent it's not even funny. You don't think Nobody_Important isn't disrespectful as fuck to other people? You are delusional if you think NI is here on these forums for a two sided conversation. He is here to just fan the flames of SJW think, SJW propaganda about white people, supporting SJW mobs on twiiter and social media. Sometimes if i didn't know better i would think you and NI are one in the same honestly the way you defend him. Maybe we should give NI a crown of thorns the way you worship him.
 
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switchback27

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Jul 26, 2018
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Maybe I'm rekindling a dead discussion, but......

I've seen a lot of what NI writes and I disagree with a lot of it, but I'm not sure that the post referred to in the bans section of NeoGAF is the appropriate one to drop the banhammer on him. Even to someone like me, who is aware of NI's talking points and his style of arguing, I found myself going, "Wait, he got a ban for THAT post?"

I understand it's hard to lay out the entire context of a ban in a one-sentence manner, but dropping the ban for THAT post just seemed a little ridiculous. There were plenty of other posts that would have made a lot more sense intuitively, in terms of bans. I think that's where the arguments are coming from.
 

MrTickles

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How’s the pinball? I stopped getting update alerts for that thread. Not sure if that’s a system error or there were no new posts just before your hiatus. Couldn’t remember the name of the thread in order to find it.
It's good bro, more or less finished. Got proper cables for the sound system and finally found a permanent place for the table. Now onto project no.2 (probably a smaller pinball table).
 
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