Support NeoGAF

[Kurtofan]

Meh, I don't think BG2 aged that well, I think games like PST or Arcanum are more unique and original, if not as polished.

I didn't like DDOS because the writing was bad and the story/setting generic, I think that's fine for older games but I expect more interesting stuff from recent games.

Edit: not that Dragon Commander's writing was much better, but I thought the general concept was way more interesting.

edit: I'm guessing Expeditions Conquistador didn't make the list? One of the most overlooked recent rpgs.

 

[dude]

You can give it a try, and if you do just jump straight into P4.

That said, it is one of GAF's most overrated series, at least when it comes to P3/4. The pacing is bad, the dungeons are terrible, and the story in P4 is average at best. The only things saving it are good characters.

P4 and P3P at least give you full party control.

If you are interested in solid dungeon design and gameplay, most of Atlus' other games would be a better pick. If you want fun characters you should enjoy Persona.

I think the only Atlus game I played was Disgaea which I disliked (to put mildly.) I'll give P4 a chance I guess. Thanks!

Meh, I don't think BG2 aged that well, I think games like PST or Arcanum are more unique and original, if not as polished.

I didn't like DDOS because the writing was bad and the story/setting generic, I think that's fine for older games but I expect more interesting stuff from recent games..

You basically summed up why I don't consider D:OS essential. It's a good game, but I think Wasteland 2 is a better RPG.

As for BG2 - Well, I have written extensively why I think BG2 is better than PS:T, and Arcanum had a rather cool setting and excellent writing but sadly it's still a rather terrible game in virtually every other aspect.

 

[Durante]

I didn't like DDOS because the writing was bad and the story/setting generic, I think that's fine for older games but I expect more interesting stuff from recent games.

I read this opinion quite a bit, and I'm always confused by what people consider "writing". I thought the actual writing in D:OS was pretty good. The main story was forgettable, but that's a fault it shares with 90% of all RPGs, and not nearly enough in my opinion to cancel out its amazing accomplishments in turn-based battle systems and world interactivity.

edit: I'm guessing Expeditions Conquistador didn't make the list? One of the most overlooked recent rpgs.

Even just in the very small category of "recent western SRPGs" I feel like it was easily outdone by Blackguards. The problem with Expeditions is encounter design and variety.

 

[Oxn]

You can give it a try, and if you do just jump straight into P4.

That said, it is one of GAF's most overrated series, at least when it comes to P3/4. The pacing is bad, the dungeons are terrible, and the story in P4 is average at best. The only things saving it are good characters.

P4 and P3P at least give you full party control.

If you are interested in solid dungeon design and gameplay, most of Atlus' other games would be a better pick. If you want fun characters you should enjoy Persona.

Amen,

Ive started P4 Golden about 3 times now. I cant get past the average gameplay. The Characters are very well done though.

Its too bad that the good characters are wrapped around subpar gameplay and ideas.

With that said, GAF and other medias still have me hyped for P5 lol.

 

[Falk]

I think the only Atlus game I played was Disgaea which I disliked (to put mildly.) I'll give P4 a chance I guess. Thanks!

Disgaea and Persona are polar opposites in almost every way imaginable.

 

[gngf123]

I think the only Atlus game I played was Disgaea which I disliked (to put mildly.) I'll give P4 a chance I guess. Thanks!.

Disgaea is a NIS game, not an Atlus game. Atlus just helped publish it in the west.

Atlus developed RPG's include things like SMT, Digital Devil Saga, and Etrian Odyssey. They also have Persona Q now, which is more like EO than Persona.

 

[kswiston]

I think the only Atlus game I played was Disgaea which I disliked (to put mildly.) I'll give P4 a chance I guess. Thanks!

Disgaea is actually a Nippon Ichi Software game that Altus published in North America.

EDIT: Beaten

 

[Durante]

You basically summed up why I don't consider D:OS essential. It's a good game, but I think Wasteland 2 is a better RPG.

Well, lots of people disagree, including me
Not that I don't like Wasteland 2 of course, I even believe that it's better than the sum of its parts.

But even if we were to assume that Wasteland 2 is a better RPG overall, what is its unique accomplishment that makes it truly essential? I can easily point to Divinity: OS' battle system as one such accomplishment (and it even has a second, its co-op integration).

 

[dude]

I read this opinion quite a bit, and I'm always confused by what people consider "writing". I thought the actual writing in D:OS was pretty good. The main story was forgettable, but that's a fault it shares with 90% of all RPGs, and not nearly enough in my opinion to cancel out its amazing accomplishments in turn-based battle systems and world interactivity.

I can only talk for my self - But when I say writing I mostly mean: dialogue design, descriptions and fluff texts. Not necessarily the plot itself which isn't that important to me. All of those felt mediocre in D:OS compared to Wasteland 2, which to be fair was also a bit rough at places, especially in those dialogues that made you click every possible keyword (UGH.)

But even if we were to assume that Wasteland 2 is a better RPG overall, what is its unique accomplishment that makes it truly essential?

Wasteland 2 had a lot of issues, and to say it was rough around the edges is to put in mildly. But I consider it essential because, to me, it was the only RPG in 2014 that actually tried to bring role-playing back to the front. I just appreciate their effort better, and think it deserves more recognition.


EDIT: And thanks for correcting me about Disgae. I just remembered seeing the Atlus logo.
I hope I'll like P4!

 

[Shengar]

EDIT: And thanks for correcting me about Disgae. I just remembered seeing the Atlus logo.
I hope I'll like P4!

You can always try P2 if you ended up not liking it.

 

[kswiston]

I think that Wasteland 2 is too new to make a list like this. People don't have time or money to play every title at launch. Original Sin had a ton of press after it launched, and has been doing well in the end of year awards. That will get people to try out the game. Wasteland 2 lacks that and will have to wait for better sales to encourage wider adoption.

Nier and Alpha Protocol didn't start climbing the list until they were bargain bin titles. The same is probably true of Dragon's Dogma. Maybe Wasteland 2 will follow suit in coming years.

 

[d1rtn4p]

Damn, you know times are changing when Mass Effect beats Baldur's Gate. I guess like everything else in life, things fade with time.

 

[Taruranto]

Eh, I'm not really surprise about ME, sadly.

GAF tends to ignore PC exclusives, and BG2 is super-old at this point.

 

[decoyplatypus]

It's frustrating that Awakening will be the highest-ranked Fire Emblem, but I'm happy that an FE game attained top-25 status this time.

Tactics Ogre's decline is surprising. It just had a re-release a few years ago.

 

[terrisus]

Chrono Trigger received the most points for the 5th consecutive time

Woo-hoo!

but by the smallest margin ever.

Boo!
More people need to play Chrono Trigger :þ

Top 5 WRPGs were as follows:

1) Mass Effect
2) Fallout New Vegas (tied)
2) Planescape Torment (tied)
4) Baldur's Gate 2
5) Mass Effect 2

Darn is that ever depressing =(

 

[kswiston]

It's frustrating that Awakening will be the highest-ranked Fire Emblem, but I'm happy that an FE game attained top-25 status this time.

Tactics Ogre's decline is surprising. It just had a re-release a few years ago.

Awakening was 9th overall. I think this is the first time a FE game even made the top 50. Actually we have 2 in the top 50 this time.

Long running series with consistent quality are always at a disadvantage though due to vote splitting. One of my all time favourite series is Might and Magic, which never makes the top 100 because the relatively small fanbase splits their votes between M&M 3-7 (and now X).

 

[gngf123]

Awakening was 9th overall. I think this is the first time a FE game even made the top 50. Actually we have 2 in the top 50 this time.

Long running series with consistent quality are always at a disadvantage though due to vote splitting. One of my all time favourite series is Might and Magic, which never makes the top 100 because the relatively small fanbase splits their votes between M&M 3-7 (and now X).

Awakening causing a greater interest in past FE's?

Good news if so. Was that other top 50 game PoR or one of the slightly more affordable ones?

You should have a category for series, so the votes don't get split.

 

[kswiston]

Awakening causing a greater interest in past FE's?

Good news if so. Was that other top 50 game PoR or one of the slightly more affordable ones?

Path of Radiance.

 

[Captainbojanglesiii]

You can give it a try, and if you do just jump straight into P4.

That said, it is one of GAF's most overrated series, at least when it comes to P3/4. The pacing is bad, the dungeons are terrible, and the story in P4 is average at best. The only things saving it are good characters.

P4 and P3P at least give you full party control.

If you are interested in solid dungeon design and gameplay, most of Atlus' other games would be a better pick. If you want fun characters you should enjoy Persona.

Persona 3 and 4 are two of my top 5, but I agree really. The story, characters, music and overall charm are what make the game. The dungeons kind of suck, and the combat is average. Social links are really cool though.

 

[allftw]

I don't see how people can be surprised over ME games being where they are. They were among the most popular releases of last gen, have a huge fan following, received high critical acclaim and were released within the last decade. Is it really that surprising they made the top five of WRPGs?

 

[decoyplatypus]

I don't see how people can be surprised over ME games being where they are. They were among the most popular releases of last gen, have a huge fan following, received high critical acclaim and were released within the last decade. Is it really that surprising they made the top five of WRPGs?

The part that surprises me is ME2. ME has ranked in the top twenty multiple times, so it's pretty clearly in the canon for a lot of people. ME2 was in the 40s the last two times, if I'm not mistaken. Given that it had been out a few years before the last poll and a 30-50 finish was consistent with its somewhat controversial status among WRPG fans, I kind of figured it would stay put. Positive word-of-mouth and price drops could explain its climb in the WRPG ranks.

 

[kswiston]

The part that surprises me is ME2. ME has ranked in the top twenty multiple times, so it's pretty clearly in the canon for a lot of people. ME2 was in the 40s the last two times, if I'm not mistaken. Given that it had been out a few years before the last poll and a 30-50 finish was consistent with its somewhat controversial status among WRPG fans, I kind of figured it would stay put. Positive word-of-mouth and price drops could explain its climb in the WRPG ranks.

Just to clarify, my preview list was only looking at WRPGs. Mass Effect 2 was 19th overall. There are a lot of JRPGs on the list as always.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Mass Effect 2 does strike me as a little high. I had thought people had soured it on some over the last couple of years.

Mass Effect 1 isn't the best WRPG ever or anything, but it is deserving of at least having a spot fairly high up on the list. For all the flaws with the combat, the atmosphere and ambition of that game were something special.

The big surprise to me when I was doing a tally of some of the votes out of curiosity was the major increase of Persona 3. Persona 4 has always been near the top of the list, but Persona 3 couldn't even make the Top 30 last time, and there hasn't been a re-release of the game in the last few years, either.

 

[decoyplatypus]

Just to clarify, my preview list was only looking at WRPGs. Mass Effect 2 was 19th overall. There are a lot of JRPGs on the list as always.

Yes, I should have clarified that I was using the overall rankings as a rough approximation of where those games ended up among WRPGs. I think ME2 was something like 14th or 15th among WRPGs last time?

 

[Shengar]

I think that Wasteland 2 is too new to make a list like this. People don't have time or money to play every title at launch. Original Sin had a ton of press after it launched, and has been doing well in the end of year awards. That will get people to try out the game. Wasteland 2 lacks that and will have to wait for better sales to encourage wider adoption.

Nier and Alpha Protocol didn't start climbing the list until they were bargain bin titles. The same is probably true of Dragon's Dogma. Maybe Wasteland 2 will follow suit in coming years.

Enthusiast press to boot, which is a good thing for a CRPG like DOS. IIRC, D:OS also released in rather empty month compared to busy one in September like Wasteland 2 did right?

It's frustrating that Awakening will be the highest-ranked Fire Emblem, but I'm happy that an FE game attained top-25 status this time.

Tactics Ogre's decline is surprising. It just had a re-release a few years ago.

It's to be expected since other is rather inaccessible price-wise and gameplay-wise. If Nintendo smart, they should release other FE game in VC. Sadly they are not so the series will be stuck with Awakening.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I'm not surprised at ME's drop these last two years. ME3's debacle ending and tone shifts thruout the series has had time to simmer unpleasently in people's minds, Bioware is no longer percieved as the co-Alpha and Omega of "CRPGs" (with Bethesda and Blizzard), and alot of real meat & potatoes CRPGs from other companies in other series have nabbed some limelight in the interrum as well. It wasn't just others getting alot of boost (outside of Dragon's Dogma) or new entries.

It's a new world out there.

...

I'll just stick to RPGCodex for my list needs. They might be overrating Fallout, but that's much more bearable than 2 ME games in the top 5.

Let's not go crazy, now.

 

[Shengar]

Let's not go crazy, now.

Yeah, let's not go crazy over this. I mean, seeing from the participant we have very wide range of taste actually. It just particular demographic is a majority, but that is to be expected in a very big forum like Neogaf where everybody isn't a dedicated RPG player.

 

[foxtrot3d]

I saw the thread only now, guess I'm too late.

.. at least CT will be 1st as usual, right?


what really should baffle you is why people still think that metacritic score has any value, or why Mass Effect gets even a spot in a top 10 RPGs list.

Because people think it is a really good game? Seriously, at what point does it become clear that your personal opinion that ME (specifically ME2) is not a great series represents a small minority? Every major gaming critic and review site has given it the highest scores, it far outsold ME1, it won many GOTY awards, it consistently ranks high in every best RPG list, and now even the majority on NeoGaf considers it Top 5 material.

You may not think highly of ME and ME2, but pretty much everyone else does. Either everyone else on the planet is wrong or you simply have a different opinion.

 

[XT Vengeance]

I will be honestly upset if Skyrim outranks Morrowind again.

 

[Incendiary]

Alpha Protocol made the Top 50 again.

Yaaayyyyy! The more people that play Alpha Protocol, the better. Screw the "bugs" it has, I never had any problems playing it.

 

[kayos90]

I'm still not a big fan of Chrono Trigger after all these years. Eh...

 

[hemtae]

Let's not go crazy, now.

Underneath the rampant misogyny, homophobia, racism, and other unsavory characteristics those guys really know what they're talking about.

...

I'll just stick to RPGCodex for my list needs. They might be overrating Fallout, but that's much more bearable than 2 ME games in the top 5.

It's impossible to overrate fallout.

 

[kswiston]

Underneath the rampant misogyny, homophobia, racism, and other unsavory characteristics those guys really know what they're talking about.

Well this list includes console RPGs, and console-centric gamers make up the large majority of posters, so you aren't going to get the same sort of results. GAF is also a general gaming forum, so more approachable games tend to do better. One of the biggest departures I saw was the fact that RPG Codex loves Wizardry and GAF apparently doesn't. However, most of the big names appear somewhere on both lists. Gothic 2, Ultima 7, Darklands, Mask of the Betrayer, etc probably deserve to be higher, but they are still in our top 100.

 

[Shengar]

Because people think it is a really good game? Seriously, at what point does it become clear that your personal opinion that ME (specifically ME2) is not a great series represents a small minority? Every major gaming critic and review site has given it the highest scores, it far outsold ME1, it won many GOTY awards, it consistently ranks high in every best RPG list, and now even the majority on NeoGaf considers it Top 5 material.

You may not think highly of ME and ME2, but pretty much everyone else does. Either everyone else on the planet is wrong or you simply have a different opinion.

It won consistently because it is the more accessible RPG being in multiple gaming, no surprise. More people playing=more vote to it. I don't know if ME can hold up if more people play, let's say The Witcher 2.

 

[kswiston]

It won consistently because it is the more accessible RPG being in multiple gaming, no surprise. More people playing=more vote to it. I don't know if ME can hold up if more people play, let's say The Witcher 2.

The Witcher 2 isn't exactly niche. If you go back and look at sales, more people have played the Witcher 2 than most of the golden age RPGs from the late 80s/90s.

 

[Arulan]

Underneath the rampant misogyny, homophobia, racism, and other unsavory characteristics those guys really know what they're talking about.

That they do.

For comparison, for those who didn't see their last Top 50 list:

1. Planescape: Torment
2. Fallout 1
3. Fallout 2
4. Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
5. Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
6. Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
7. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
8. Fallout: New Vegas
9. Gothic 2
10. Wizardry 8

Just as a reminder to everyone, what makes lists interesting is the discussion they produce. While it may be fun to poke and say a game should be above another, as always these are subject to popularity, recency of release, and other factors which affect it.

 

[hemtae]

Well this list includes console RPGs, and console-centric gamers make up the large majority of posters, so you aren't going to get the same sort of results. GAF is also a general gaming forum, so more approachable games tend to do better. One of the biggest departures I saw was the fact that RPG Codex loves Wizardry and GAF apparently doesn't. However, most of the big names appear somewhere on both lists. Gothic 2, Ultima 7, Darklands, Mask of the Betrayer, etc probably deserve to be higher, but they are still in our top 100.

Honestly, I think we do pretty well on the jrpg side of things. SMT > Persona though.

 

[Burt]

It won consistently because it is the more accessible RPG being in multiple gaming, no surprise. More people playing=more vote to it. I don't know if ME can hold up if more people play, let's say The Witcher 2.

It can.

The first Mass Effect is better than anything The Witcher series has ever done.

Mass Effect 2 and TW2 are a close match, although not one that's really fit for this list, with ME2 being barely within the borders of what makes an RPG.

 

[terrisus]

The Witcher 2 isn't exactly niche. If you go back and look at sales, more people have played the Witcher 2 than most of the golden age RPGs from the late 80s/90s.

This is assuming that the amount of people who have played it are directly related to sales.

While I've never been into "other means" of playing games...
Many more people have played SNES RPGs than are reflected by their sales.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Honestly, I think we do pretty well on the jrpg side of things. SMT > Persona though.

Shin Megami Tensei IV getting practically no love in most people's lists was surprising (and disappointing) to me. It's one of the very best games ever made for me.

 

[foxtrot3d]

It won consistently because it is the more accessible RPG being in multiple gaming, no surprise. More people playing=more vote to it. I don't know if ME can hold up if more people play, let's say The Witcher 2.

Mass Effect is better than TW2 in almost every way, I'd say they are comparable in terms of story. Also why do people complain about ME being a shooter when TW2 is just a hack and slash? Not that I'm hating on TW2, love that game, but I don't understand why it's held up as some return to glorious RPG games when it's even more actiony than Mass Effect.

It can.

The first Mass Effect is better than anything The Witcher series has ever done.

Mass Effect 2 and TW2 are a close match, although not one that's really fit for this list, with ME2 being barely within the borders of what makes an RPG.

I'd disagree with that but then the question becomes what is an RPG?

 

[The Technomancer]

I'm fine with calling ME2 an RPG. Its got tons of dialogue, party customization, stats and skills for those who care about those sorts of things...if a genre can contain both Etrian Odyssey and Alpha Protocol it can certainly contain Mass Effect 2.

No that game's problems are independent of its "RPG-ness", including some weirdly halfbaked mission design in spots and a story that makes no sense in its own context and is revealed as meaningless in its trilogy's context

Also sorry I didn't participate this year. I always vote for titles that are so popular their ranking is almost forgone or titles so obscure they'll earn two or three votes at most

 

[felipepepe]

Since now I have an account here, I would like to ask: just why you guys do this list every year?

Wouldn't it make more sense to just do a "Best of the Year" voting and a place where you can see the results from every year? What's the point in every year rechecking the entire history of RPGs? I.e., last year PS:T was the #1 WRPG. Now it is #3. So what? (Expect for the horrible decline, of course.)

If anything, you're just replacing old games for new ones. Especially since there's nothing to compensate for popularity. Sure, Mass Effect is popular as hell, but how many gave it 3 points? Is it really fucking awesome, or just a game that everyone played and enjoyed?

I know I'm biased, being the guy who did the past RPG Codex votings, but I know how much trouble it is to do these... I really don't get the point of it.

Also, Arcanum was #5 at the Codex Top RPG list... yet sits at #130 on NeoGAF's 2013 poll. Shame on you all. :-(

 

[Feichaw]

Top 5 WRPGs were as follows:

1) Mass Effect
2) Fallout New Vegas (tied)
2) Planescape Torment (tied)
4) Baldur's Gate 2
5) Mass Effect 2

Yeah, I can live with this. Mass Effect 1 isn't the best in the series IMO, but it's Mass Effect after all, my favorite video game franchise. Justice was done.

 

[Simzyy]

Huh. So apparently the majority do love Mass Effect and not just me. It's so hard to tell sometimes.

Sounds like it's going to be a great list in my opinion.

 

[gngf123]

Shin Megami Tensei IV getting practically no love in most people's lists was surprising (and disappointing) to me. It's one of the very best games ever made for me.

I honestly wish SMT had more votes generally. Nocturne is cool and I gave it the 3 points to push it up a bit more since I knew that was the one people would vote for, but almost nobody mentioned IV or Strange Journey.

It's disappointing, but not surprising considering how Persona talk dominates everything SMT related here.

 

[His Majesty]

Mass Effect is better than TW2 in almost every way, I'd say they are comparable in terms of story. Also why do people complain about ME being a shooter when TW2 is just a hack and slash? Not that I'm hating on TW2, love that game, but I don't understand why it's held up as some return to glorious RPG games when it's even more actiony than Mass Effect.



I'd disagree with that but then the question becomes what is an RPG?

Mass Effect doesn't even come close to The Witcher 2 regarding story.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Also, Arcanum was #5 at the Codex Top RPG list... yet sits at #130 on NeoGAF's 2013 poll. Shame on you all. :-(

RPGCodex is a site with mostly oldschool PC RPG players, NeoGAF is a site with mostly SNES-PS1 era console players. Both have people from both groups, but there's a different emphasis overall.

 

[felipepepe]

RPGCodex is a site with mostly oldschool PC RPG players, NeoGAF is a site with mostly SNES-PS1 era console players. Both have people from both groups, but there's a different emphasis overall.

Sure, yet Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate were GAF's top WRPGs last year... this "we love PST and BG2, but never tried Arcanum!" thing that puzzles me.

 

[Kieli]

Since now I have an account here, I would like to ask: just why you guys do this list every year?

Wouldn't it make more sense to just do a "Best of the Year" voting and a place where you can see the results from every year? What's the point in every year rechecking the entire history of RPGs? I.e., last year PS:T was the #1 WRPG. Now it is #3. So what? (Expect for the horrible decline, of course.)

If anything, you're just replacing old games for new ones. Especially since there's nothing to compensate for popularity. Sure, Mass Effect is popular as hell, but how many gave it 3 points? Is it really fucking awesome, or just a game that everyone played and enjoyed?

I know I'm biased, being the guy who did the past RPG Codex votings, but I know how much trouble it is to do these... I really don't get the point of it.

Also, Arcanum was #5 at the Codex Top RPG list... yet sits at #130 on NeoGAF's 2013 poll. Shame on you all. :-(

It's pretty fun, in all honesty.

And I receive immense sexual pleasure to see Dark Souls and Persona 4 beat Demon's Souls and Persona 3.