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[Asmodai]

Killzone 2 has so far by far the best looking (and feeling, but that's more subjective) weapons in a game.

On the technical side, I would assume that Crysis and Crysis Warhead when maxed out have higher polycounts and higher texture resolutions on its gun models than Killzone 2 has in its.

Of course, art style and developer optimization matter hugely, but those are pretty subjective.

And never found MW 1 weapons to be very nice looking but the game itself definitely looked great. I don't see the MW 2 weapons topping Killzone 2's weapons, but of course when I bring up the name Killzone 2 I immediately begin a fan war.

Here's the thing: from what I've seen, MW2 weapons look better than Killzone 2's. That's because I can't tell how many polygons are in each weapon, only how much I like the overall look of them, art design, etc. The weird AK thing that the North Koreans used in Crysis may have a lot of polygons and be very shiny, but to me the actual design looked bad, so I don't think it looked very good.

 

[MercuryLS]

No surprise there, gamers are pretty, er, focused. It's a shame, because this looks awesome and ambitious. Holy shit when that chopper peppers the ground.

I gave B:BC a shot, hated the gameplay totally bland. Nice visuals and destructibility though, BF:BC2 looks interesting, but it's building on a poor foundation. I'll give it a shot as well, there's a reason MW is so popular. It's the finest FPS out there, 60fps, perfect controls, incredibly well balanced gameplay.

 

[Asmodai]

I gave B:BC a shot, hated the gameplay totally bland. Nice visuals and destructibility though, BF:BC2 looks interesting, but it's building on a poor foundation. I'll give it a shot as well, there's a reason MW is so popular. It's the finest FPS out there, 60fps, perfect controls, incredibly well balanced gameplay.

Nailed it.

Until Battlefield has comparable infantry combat with COD4/ MW2, they aren't going to break into the market. You spend the majority of time on foot, if it isn't as good as the competition, people are just going to leave. It's why only one of the fifteen people on my friends list played BFBC other than the demo, and why all of them played COD4.

I sincerely hope that they could do it though. They did revolutionize infantry combat with Battlefield 2, that really inspired a lot of things in COD4.

 

[gibonez]

I really wish they would drop the Bad company spinoff.

Give us a Battlefield 3 already also no fixed wing aircraft and conquest, no purchase.

 

[Evolved1]

Nailed it.

Until Battlefield has comparable infantry combat with COD4/ MW2, they aren't going to break into the market. You spend the majority of time on foot, if it isn't as good as the competition, people are just going to leave. It's why only one of the fifteen people on my friends list played BFBC other than the demo, and why all of them played COD4.

I sincerely hope that they could do it though. They did revolutionize infantry combat with Battlefield 2, that really inspired a lot of things in COD4.

Some of us prefer Battlefield's infantry combat over the twitch shooter CoD4 style... some of us fucking hate CoD4 and would be utterly disheartened if Battlefield ever went in that direction.

I get this sick feeling in my stomach event thinking about, especially considering that Bad Company was my favorite shooter this gen and is up there on my "of all time" list.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

I gave B:BC a shot, hated the gameplay totally bland. Nice visuals and destructibility though, BF:BC2 looks interesting, but it's building on a poor foundation. I'll give it a shot as well, there's a reason MW is so popular. It's the finest FPS out there, 60fps, perfect controls, incredibly well balanced gameplay.

Meh. Perfect is evidently relative. COD4 is popular in large part thanks to its accessibility, which I'm sure is the envy of plenty of devs, but not everyone wants every shooter to be like the last. If every shooter from this point on went straight for the gun on a stick model, or sacrificed dynamic skirmish models for the sake of streamlining, I'd be done with the genre.

But then I've managed to enjoy KZ2, COD4 and BFBC about equally (well, KZ2 a bit less, and I'm just too much of a sucker for destruction to let anything share the BFBC spot), so maybe my lack of bias makes me biased.

edit: The 60fps deal is less important this time around, given that this one is coming out for PC.

 

[Arnie]

Huh? That was already in Bad Company.

Really? I played a ton of BC and never felt it was as intense as that screenshot on the last page. Maybe when you did that awkward half zoom with the SMG.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Really? I played a ton of BC and never felt it was as intense as that screenshot on the last page. Maybe when you did that awkward half zoom with the SMG.

Yeah, you're right, it's not that pronounced.

 

[MercuryLS]

Meh. Perfect is evidently relative. COD4 is popular in large part thanks to its accessibility, which I'm sure is the envy of plenty of devs, but not everyone wants every shooter to be like the last. If every shooter from this point on went straight for the gun on a stick model, or sacrificed dynamic skirmish models for the sake of streamlining, I'd be done with the genre.

But then I've managed to enjoy KZ2, COD4 and BFBC about equally (well, KZ2 a bit less, and I'm just too much of a sucker for destruction to let anything share the BFBC spot), so maybe my lack of bias makes me biased.

edit: The 60fps deal is less important this time around, given that this one is coming out for PC.

Well I'm talking from a strictly console-gaming perspective. For a shooter 60fps is a big deal and that's the biggest problem with a lot of these console shooters, they just feel sluggish. I don't care if your game is having sex with my eyes, if it runs slow and the controls feel sluggish I don't want to play it. I had the same issue with KZ2, beautiful game but 30fps hampered it IMO. I'm usually not a FPS whore, but for shooters I'm very particular (same with racers, but I'm not really into that genre too much).

The controls in BC weren't too hot from what I remember, it took way too many shots to kill someone and everything felt very floaty. They need to really nail infantry combat first before anything, cause as it is it's just not satisfying. Then they throw in these vehicles that aren't balanced well in the game and the whole thing turns into a clusterfuck of stupid.

Also while I like the destructibility a lot, how in the fuck can anyone play tactically when every wall and building can be destroyed? If anything B:BC is more arcadey cause you can go around blowing up walls and eventually get someone that way.

MW can be twitch, but it can be very strategic as well. It all depends on the mode.

or sacrificed dynamic skirmish models for the sake of streamlining, I'd be done with the genre.

I have no fucking clue what that means, please elaborate. It sounds like you're saying that MW is too well streamlined and that FPS's should be more cumbersome and obtuse. :lol

The biggest problem with the competition like BF and KZ is that they have prioritized graphics (not framerate) and bells and whistles like destructible buildings and vehicles over nailing down the basics. Great gunplay, smooth gameplay (60fps), well balanced. If you don't master the fundamentals it doesn't matter how great your back of the box bullet-point generating new feature is, the game will still fail to sell and have a solid community behind it.

I'm not saying that all shooters should be like MW, just that other devs should recognize the strengths of MW and focus on those areas then differentiate with various other features.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

I have no fucking clue what that means, please elaborate.

The biggest problem with the competition like BF and KZ is that they have prioritized graphics (not framerate) and bells and whistles like destructible buildings and vehicles over nailing down the basics. Great gunplay, smooth gameplay (60fps), well balanced. If you don't master the fundamentals it doesn't matter how great your back of the box bullet-point generating new feature is, the game will still fail to sell and have a solid community behind it.

It means that the campaign is a tightly controlled event along a strict path, with no allowance for deviations or even moderate tactical planning. There's room for both models, but I'd hate to see less dynamic encounters, or fewer games that offer open ended battles, simply because the most basic model enjoys the most success.

And if we are talking about fundamentals, then I would argue for the importance of living battlefields. I'd also argue that while the gunplay in COD4 is perfect if you want to make sure that every single player that ever plays the game can score a killstreak, I wouldn't want every game to ape this.

That's not to say that developers should stick to their guns no matter what, or that we as customers can't wish for our favorite games to mimic other favorites in some ways, but some of these things sound like such fundamental differences that it would make for a completely different game. And if that is what you want, then there already are different games.

By the way, KZ2 doesn't have vehicles in MP (unfortunately, as that mech would have made for a good weapon against the class that damned well ruined the game), and the destruction is quite minimal.

 

[mclaren777]

I made an upscaled, PS3/360-compatible, 720p version of that recent Gametrailers video for those who care...

Right-click, save as

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

There's something wrong with the file

edit: never mind, there was something wrong with my browser, not the file

 

[BattleMonkey]

I would like more impact to the guns, for some reason the guns while sounding great in the sound department, didn't feel like you were actually doing damage. Probably has more to do with the guys in BF games taking too many hits to bring down. You shoot at somebody several times, get the red confirmation hit indicator, but they just won't go down, it's disappointing. Perhaps making people die faster will make it feel more deadly.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

I would like more impact to the guns, for some reason the guns while sounding great in the sound department, didn't feel like you were actually doing damage. Probably has more to do with the guys in BF games taking too many hits to bring down. You shoot at somebody several times, get the red confirmation hit indicator, but they just won't go down, it's disappointing. Perhaps making people die faster will make it feel more deadly.

Stoney posted some quote from IGN on page 3:

Speaking on balance, I also seemed to have less trouble dropping enemies in Bad Company 2. One of my main gripes with the first game (outside of too much Gold Rush, and not enough point capturing) was that guns felt just too underpowered. This was not the case with my latest hands-on, and while it still took a few good shots to bring a guy down it was far more realistic, and more effective to be a strong on-foot player as a result..

 

[Arnie]

Stoney posted some quote from IGN on page 3:

Yes this is one point DICE have stressed in terms of game balance, bullets will be more lethal this time around. Which is definetely an improvement.

 

[BattleMonkey]

That's good, smgs especially felt like pea shooters in old BF games.

 

[demolitio]

That's good, smgs especially felt like pea shooters in old BF games.

Agreed. That has annoyed me in just about every BF game lately. Even the weapons in BF2 were weak.

 

[Evolved1]

That's good, smgs especially felt like pea shooters in old BF games.

Encounters in BC come down to rate of fire. SMG's are pea shooters. But they shoot their peas really fast. In CQB an SMG will drop any other player class one on one, equal players (no headshots).

I thought in BC players were bullet sponges, but I still thought they did one hell of a job balancing the weapon classes. I'm happy to hear that the deaths will be a little bit quicker... but that was never one of the game's major issues imo.

Still really annoyed with the killcam addition. I'll probably play less recon in BC2 because of it.

 

[mike0513]

What always irked me was the fact that you could point a pistol at someones head, fire, and they wouldnt die, yet get a knife and slice em once and they are dead as shit

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Yes this is one point DICE have stressed in terms of game balance, bullets will be more lethal this time around. Which is definetely an improvement.

You can already see that in 1943... Gunplay in 1943 is better than BC, but BC still has superior vehicle combat.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Proper SMGs are critical to any modern setting shooter. BFBC had the right models, but yeah, damage sucked like with any other weapon.

What I don't get is why the game had this issue with damage in the first place. Besides internal testing, wasn't there even a 360 beta for the game? Then again, I suppose betas don't ensure perfection (also see: KZ2), but it seems like a rather big issue to miss.

 

[BattleMonkey]

What always irked me was the fact that you could point a pistol at someones head, fire, and they wouldnt die, yet get a knife and slice em once and they are dead as shit

That's a problem with pretty much all FPS nowadays it seems where melee somehow deals more damage than a gun. Killzone 2 only recent game I remember to have the basic melee not be all that amazing. Though I would prefer to see a more realistic approach to melee in which it worked kinda like a short term stun or disabling effect instead of instant kill super knives and punches.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

That's a problem with pretty much all FPS nowadays it seems where melee somehow deals more damage than a gun. Killzone 2 only recent game I remember to have the basic melee not be all that amazing. Though I would prefer to see a more realistic approach to melee in which it worked kinda like a short term stun or disabling effect instead of instant kill super knives and punches.

A combat knife has really good, heavy penetration and massive damage area, though. A proper stabbing should be an instant kill. If anything, that proper stab should be more difficult to accomplish.

There should be melee QTE mini-games. Proper execution ensures a fatal stab, minor success leads to decent damage, and failure leads to accidentally stabbing oneself in the face.

Well, maybe not. :lol But something to make it less of a win button.

 

[Evolved1]

Melee is one thing I think is totally broken in BC. :lol Laughably bad.

It looks like they completely ripped off COD4 for BC2... not sure if I like that. Have to see how it plays. I don't think a quick knife should be able to kill a gun directly in front of you who is shooting bullets in your direction. Instakills are fine if the gun is facing away from you... but CQB encounters shouldn't devolve into contests of who can hit the melee button faster. It should come down to weapon class and player skill.

Quick knife is a cop out.

 

[BattleMonkey]

A bullet from an assault rifle should be far more lethal and damaging, even against an armored target.

But what bugs me is just how easy they make melee combat. Wide arced swipes instant killing people? Games where hitting someone with the butt of the rifle is far more damaging than any single bullet in the game?

I don't think though it would work out well to turn it into some kind of button mashy game ala gears of war 2 close combat, but at least it should be interesting.

We get games modeling long range bullet hit locations and such, should also apply in some way to melee. Maybe different moves for melee such as slash, stab, etc which have different applications/effects depending on where you hit.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Well, they should at least force you to be very close to the person you want to stab, and have some form of reasonable "knife to gun fight" conclusion calculation running. I've had a number of encounters in Unnamed Popular Shooter in which I'd pepper a guy right in the chest with a silenced SMG, only to end up being stabbed to death.

 

[macfoshizzle]

bc1 has the best sound in any fps shooter.. now from the new tgs vids, bc2 will have the best explosions as well.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

bc1 has the best sound in any fps shooter.. now from the new tgs vids, bc2 will have the best explosions as well.

I can't think of an FPS with better explosions than BFBC1, but yeah, this looks HOT.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

I can't think of an FPS with better explosions than BFBC1, but yeah, this looks HOT.

Black comes pretty close....

 

[BattleMonkey]

Think Crysis had some of the most impressive and brutal explosions. The grenade blasts though were underwhelming.

 

[The Faceless Master]

it always makes me laugh when some idiot charges at me with a knife... most of the time i just backpedal and shoot them. speaking of knives, everyone here knows you can double knife swipe in BC1, right? if you press the knife button, you swing, then if you press shoot during the swing, you can do another swing instantly. it really helps when you've got two or more enemies in close range who you've got the jump on.

i mostly knife when i'm just inside a doorway or around the corner from someone, or if i sneak up on their position.

 

[Evolved1]

A couple well placed fucking pistol rounds should drop a guy rushing toward you with a knife.

I think the best way to do it is not have a dedicated melee button like in COD4. I mean, BC kinda tried to do this... it just wasn't very well executed.

You know what I think would really work best? Making it a situational thing... like in the right situation a context sensitive command could be used for lethal blows. A normal melee would be something like a nonlethal rifle butt attack, but if you were in the right position, say directly behind or beside a dude, a little knife icon would pop up indicating the normal melee would instead be a cool special kill.... like a knife (or neck break for SF class haha). That would be sweet.

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

These comments about weapons and how they feel remind me back in the day of WW2 shooters on the PC, lots of people going on about how a weapon should feel etc, then CoD1 came out and the same stuff people are saying here is what was said back then pretty much, CoD came in with its absolute slickness and made other shooters feel a bit, stiff ?

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

You know what I think would really work best? Making it a situational thing... like in the right situation a context sensitive command could be used for lethal blows. A normal melee would be something like a nonlethal rifle butt attack, but if you were in the right position, say directly behind or beside a dude, a little knife icon would pop up indicating the normal melee would instead be a cool special kill.... like a knife (or neck break for SF class haha). That would be sweet.

Like Killzone 1? That was actually one of the few good things about that game, but the execution left something to be desired.

 

[Wizman23]

Policing other threads for MW "bashing" doesn't seem all that much better to me, but hey. They are distractions either way.

Everything I have ever seen you post has been a distraction if you ask me. Your recent trolling of Halo ODST was almost as good as your trolling of Prototype.

 

[BattleMonkey]

These comments about weapons and how they feel remind me back in the day of WW2 shooters on the PC, lots of people going on about how a weapon should feel etc, then CoD1 came out and the same stuff people are saying here is what was said back then pretty much, CoD came in with its absolutel slickness and made other shooters feel a bit, stiff ?

Problem is you get into extremes. You can have similar feel in a game with same slickness but each game then does something different. They make the guns more realistic shooting, but in the process slow the rest of the game play. They make they game faster and totally ignore damage modeling. Go for realism yet totally do the guns wrong. Make killing way to easy then you pretty much make different guns lose their uniqueness, etc, etc.

Every game does things differently people look for different things in different games, always going to be things people don't like about a particular game play.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Everything I have ever seen you post has been a distraction if you ask me.

Uh, alright then. Next time you decide to stomp into the bickerer's circle with your big dumb clown shoes, try to do so while the argument is still somewhat fresh.

edit: lulz edit. My "trolling" of Halo ODST was pretty much limited to claiming that the visuals were not worth 9/10 on a current scale. The severity of "trolling" seems to be relative to fanboy (and staff, lol) response, imagine that.

As for Prototype, it's not my fault that the game turned out to be shit. Since you're into checking me out and what not, you should check out some older Prototype threads. If you're going to talk about me trolling, at least use a relevant game, like Borderlands or something.

 

[rainking187]

Melee is one thing I think is totally broken in BC. :lol Laughably bad.

It looks like they completely ripped off COD4 for BC2... not sure if I like that. Have to see how it plays. I don't think a quick knife should be able to kill a gun directly in front of you who is shooting bullets in your direction. Instakills are fine if the gun is facing away from you... but CQB encounters shouldn't devolve into contests of who can hit the melee button faster. It should come down to weapon class and player skill.

Quick knife is a cop out.

Yeah, I hope they seriously change they fucking knife from BC. A point blank shotgun blast isn't always a one hit kill but a dude wildly swinging a knife is? The fuck?

 

[Evolved1]

Like Killzone 1? That was actually one of the few good things about that game, but the execution left something to be desired.

Its been a while since I played the original Killzone to remember exactly how melee worked, but what I will never forget about that game is sniper chick's fuckawesome "throw giant knife into your throat" move...

I think that whatever they do, it has to be responsive. I love games that have a feeling of weight to player movement, realistic speed... but there's a fine line between that and feeling clunky; its a delicate balance.

That's why I think a normal (quick) nonlethal melee option is essential... and the context sensitive thing is just me daydreaming a bit, but something I think would be doable and work pretty well.

But could you imagine being recon class, sniping some dudes and then suddenly a pair of arms flashes into your view as you're pulled up and your neck snapped... lights out?

Now that's a killcam shot I'd want to see... humiliation.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Every game does things differently people look for different things in different games, always going to be things people don't like about a particular game play.

I can agree with that there may be some things that should probably become standard, but gunplay is one of the things that give the various shooters their distinct identities. During the KZ2 beta, the beta forum was alight with requests for more "COD-like" controls. Now, I think KZ2 went overboard in the other direction, but I'm glad that it had some form of identity, instead of being COD Somewhat Futuristic Warfare.

 

[Evolved1]

Everything I have ever seen you post has been a distraction if you ask me. Your recent trolling of Halo ODST was almost as good as your trolling of Prototype.

AA was Prototype's biggest fan for most of it's early development... and then the game released as a pile of shit.

Can't blame him.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Yeah, I hope they seriously change they fucking knife from BC. A point blank shotgun blast isn't always a one hit kill but a dude wildly swinging a knife is? The fuck?

I liked in the older rainbow six titles how getting hit actually had an effect on you. Slowed you down, it screwed up your aim, etc. Stuff like that would be good model I wish more fps would put in instead of stupid screen darkening. Can't stab you if i'm reeling from a bullet wound.

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

Problem is you get into extremes. You can have similar feel in a game with same slickness but each game then does something different. They make the guns more realistic shooting, but in the process slow the rest of the game play. They make they game faster and totally ignore damage modeling. Go for realism yet totally do the guns wrong. Make killing way to easy then you pretty much make different guns lose their uniqueness, etc, etc.

Every game does things differently people look for different things in different games, always going to be things people don't like about a particular game play.

Yeah, its how i like FPS' to be, different. Its what makes an FPS. Id hate to see the day when devs basically just copy the same mechanics and essentially reskin the game. KZ2, CoD, Crysis, HL2, all have a unique feel to them. Alot of the B grade games though feel like there desperately trying to copy the Halo way.....

I liked in the older rainbow six titles how getting hit actually had an effect on you. Slowed you down, it screwed up your aim, etc. Stuff like that would be good model I wish more fps would put in instead of stupid screen darkening. Can't stab you if i'm reeling from a bullet wound.

I hear that. While i loved R6 Vegas for what is was, it pissed me off to no end how they completely changed the game from what it used to be (yeah yeah not a big enough market for it these days, yet we will still use the name to flog it).

 

[Evolved1]

I liked in the older rainbow six titles how getting hit actually had an effect on you. Slowed you down, it screwed up your aim, etc. Stuff like that would be good model I wish more fps would put in instead of stupid screen darkening. Can't stab you if i'm reeling from a bullet wound.

Be careful dude... you're getting away from the "weightless-head-on-a-stick" FPS model... folks don't take too kindly to that.

Especially with the popularity of COD.

 

[UnluckyKate]

Is it me or does the physic seem more... Lunar is BC2 ?

Vehicules seems to explode higher making me think it's less " realistic " but far more impressive for any soldier's/player's point of view :lol

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

That's why I think a normal (quick) nonlethal melee option is essential... and the context sensitive thing is just me daydreaming a bit, but something I think would be doable and work pretty well.

This is turning into an FPs wishlist more so than a BFBC2 discussion, but I'll add one thing: the kick. It has to be the most criminally underused moves in first person shooters, yet it's the most realistic, natural melee move there is.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Is it me or does the physic seem more... Lunar is BC2 ?

Vehicules seems to explode higher making me think it's less " realistic " but far more impressive for any soldier's/player's point of view :lol

Well action movie action seems to be more in line with the feel of the BC games.

 

[Klocker]

this game looks sweet... I look forward to this far more than MW2.

BC1 was my favorite FPS for multiplayer this gen and this looks to improve it in every way

 

[endlessflood]

I've played 1942 and Battlefield 2 on PC and loved both, but BFBC never really hooked me. On the other hand I adore BF1943 and from the look of this latest interview BFBC2 will be a day one purchase.

It's weird, BF1943 and BFBC2 videos just capture my attention instantly, but I never got that with the BFBC videos. Is that a FOV thing, or grain filter maybe? I'm trying to think what the differences are between them and what the issue might be, but can't seem to put my finger on it exactly.

 

[Asmodai]

This is turning into an FPs wishlist more so than a BFBC2 discussion, but I'll add one thing: the kick. It has to be the most criminally underused moves in first person shooters, yet it's the most realistic, natural melee move there is.

The most natural? I would assume the gun butt is more popular than that, I don't have any statistics or anything to back it up for obvious reasons.

I do agree that instant melee kills are kind of unrealistic in a game. Knifing someone in a split second through all of that kevlar and material should only be possible if you sneak up and take them by surprise.

Nobody is going to successfully knife someone else by just charging right at them. I was able to do that several times in the first Bad Company, simply because guns were so useless. Banzai attacks will hopefully not be as successful in BC2.