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[goodcow]

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/traffic/wabc_traffic_012405subway.html

(New York-WABC, January 24, 2005) — Icy tracks this morning combined with the aftermath of an underground subway fire yesterday have resulted in major service disruptions on the A and C lines, and it's not a situation that's going to get any better any time soon.

Kemberly Richardson has the story from Lower Manhattan, and Jeff Rossen has the latest on how commuters are dealing with the service problems from Columbus Circle.

The damage caused by yesterday's fire is severe and Eyewitness News has learned that it will take between 3 and 5 years for it to be repaired and rebuilt.

Flames broke out in a critical location inside the Chambers Street subway station.

Lawrence Reuter, MTA President: "This is going to have an impact we're guessing from between 3 to 5, we'll know better in the next week or two as the engineers evaluate it."

That's 3 to 5 years. Transit officials are calling Sunday's fire relatively small but one that hit a vital equipment room - a strategic site used to control a large part of the subway system.

Lawrence Reuter, MTA President: "The relay rooms actually control all of the signals and the tracks - the switches that control the service out there. So with 600 relays out of service we're going to have pretty significant impacts on the A and C service."

Eyewitness News found the room where about 600 relays were destroyed. At this point officials believe a homeless person broke several locks and set wood on fire right next to the sensitive location.

With hundreds of relays now out of service it's causing significant delays and cancellations.

Lawrence Reuter, MTA President: "When it knocks out the relays there's no way to safely control the tracks and switches signal system."

Workers have to now manually guide trains through tunnels, which is time consuming. At this point service on the A train has been severely reduced and because of that you can't transfer from the J L and Z at the Broadway Junction station in Brooklyn, or from the 4 and 5 lines at the Fulton station in Manhattan. Service on the C has been suspended indefinitely.

We'll have much more on this story later, including the burning question: why was it so easy for somebody to gain access to such a sensitive location.

How are commuters dealing with all these changes? Eyewitness News' Jeff Rossen has that story.

We thought all of us who take the subways were tough here in the city, right? But remember it's only day one of this mess and people are still pretty understanding. But when we told those same understanding people that this is a long term problem, and it could be a long while before these trains are back to normal, they turned fast.

Commuter: "It might take a little longer to get home but that will be fine. I'm not going to walk."

But standing on a platform with no train in sight - walking seems viable.

The announcements blared but some commuters don't even hear it. We noticed A trains arrived every seven minuted or so today, but the problem is that all the C passengers are loading the A trains.

Commuter: "Every A train was packed this morning. I had to get a cab. It's been a mess, I don't know how I'm going to deal with a week of it."

It will take 3 to 5 years to repair all of the switches involved here, but the MTA reminds us that they are working on this problem right now. C service is out indefinitely but they hope to have more A service in place within a few weeks, but this problem is here to stay.

 

[Ecrofirt]

is your whole life yhe subway? jesus man, you have a new thread once a week!

 

[DarienA]

is your whole life yhe subway? jesus man, you have a new thread once a week!

For many folks the subway IS a major part of their getting around NYC every day lives.

 

[automagnus]

is your whole life yhe subway? jesus man, you have a new thread once a week!

No service on the A line for 3-5 years is pretty big news.

I'm happy he posted it.

 

[Manabanana]

That's loads of shit. Good thing I decided to put off living there for a couple years. It SHOULD NOT take this long to fix. Maybe they'll put something better in its place? Nicer train or something.

 

[border]

Yeah, but this is applicable to what....like 6 regular GA posters?

You must take the "A"-Train
To go to sugar hill way up in Harlem
If you miss the "A"-Train
You'll find you missed the quickest way to Harlem
Hurry - get on now it's coming
Listen - to these rails a-humming - all board
get on the "A"-Train
Soon You will be on sugar hill in Harlem

 

[Prospero]

I live in Jersey, not NYC, but I'm in the city often enough for me to think this news sucks.

 

[ToxicAdam]

The subway has made New Yorkers soft.

(Unless you live in the boroughs, then this news sucks ass)

 

[xsarien]

No service on the A line for 3-5 years is pretty big news.

I'm happy he posted it.

You mean the C, but yeah, this isn't just a little hiccup.

 

[FortNinety]

Just when you think the subways couldn't get any worse, this shit turns up. The subway system here is beyond appalling, with all the delays, price gouging, and corruption.

 

[Brannon]

If I were bin Laden, I'd have an idea right about...... now. Burn out more switches and relays to crowd all the traffic to a few trains, board the trains and, oh yeah. VW Polo Part Deux.

Sure it's nothing to joke about, but as a master conspiratist, one must think of all angles.

 

[suaveric]

It is pretty crazy that something that vital was so easily broken in to. Why would they even have one small station controlling that much in the first place? That's asking for trouble.

 

[xsarien]

It is pretty crazy that something that vital was so easily broken in to. Why would they even have one small station controlling that much in the first place? That's asking for trouble.

To be perfectly fair and play devil's advocate for a moment, New York City's transit system runs, more or less, 24/7. Especially the trains. Maintaining components, and upgrading them, requires a lot. Completely changing how and where signals are controlled would be asking for the impossible.

 

[suaveric]

To be perfectly fair and play devil's advocate for a moment, New York City's transit system runs, more or less, 24/7. Especially the trains. Maintaining components, and upgrading them, requires a lot. Completely changing how and where signals are controlled would be asking for the impossible.

Sure, after they've built it that way, I can understand why it wasn't changed. But why make it that way to begin with?

 

[nitewulf]

That's loads of shit. Good thing I decided to put off living there for a couple years. It SHOULD NOT take this long to fix. Maybe they'll put something better in its place? Nicer train or something.

as an engineer i tell you that it could easily take 3-5 years. though i dont exactly know the extent of the damage, the NYC subway system still uses thousands of old style electro mechanical relays. the MTA has been upgrading the system for years now, and even then it'd take a few decades to fully upgrade it to digital standards (digital relays instead of electro mechanical). 600 damaged relays in a vital core of the system will take a while to fix. its not just a matter of replacement, they'd have to test and debugg every signal system those relays were attached to, in order to ensure safety. the problem with any system this big and complicated is, its not very easy to upgrade it. the network becomes too complex, too complicated.

 

[Amir0x]

Oh jesus christ...

...NYC has the worst subway system in the freakin' world. Why don't you join Tokyo, NYC? They have the best subway system evar!

Oh, isn't New York dedicated 30 billion dollars to some complete Subway rennovation anyway?

 

[xsarien]

Oh jesus christ...

...NYC has the worst subway system in the freakin' world. Why don't you join Tokyo, NYC? They have the best subway system evar!

You know...

It can be delayed, it stinks in the summer, it's fucking freezing in the winter, it's crowded, dingy, and expensive. But when you need a train at 2am, one will probably be pulling into the station in around 10 minutes.

24/7 public transportation is a grand thing, and it's astonishing that a system as extensive and old as the NYC subway system can do it with relatively few hiccups.

 

[Amir0x]

You know...

It can be delayed, it stinks in the summer, it's fucking freezing in the winter, it's crowded, dingy, and expensive. But when you need a train at 2am, one will probably be pulling into the station in around 10 minutes.

24/7 public transportation is a grand thing, and it's astonishing that a system as extensive and old as the NYC subway system can do it with relatively few hiccups.

I'm not discrediting its accomplishments, but it's time to smile on those and move into the 21st century.

And I would not like going into a subway in NYC at 2am in the morning. I've done it many times before, but I like to avoid that as much as possible - no matter how "safe" the city has become.

 

[Dilbert]

I'm not discrediting its accomplishments, but it's time to smile on those and move into the 21st century.

So how exactly do you propose to make that happen? Maintaining a high availability system AND making significant changes at the same time is, as they say, non-trivial. If it was so easy to bring the NYC subway system "into the 21st Century," don't you think they would have done so already?

 

[Amir0x]

So how exactly do you propose to make that happen? Maintaining a high availability system AND making significant changes at the same time is, as they say, non-trivial. If it was so easy to bring the NYC subway system "into the 21st Century," don't you think they would have done so already?

I don't think it's easy, I just said it needs to be done. It does need to be done, for so many reasons. Not only that, but it could help because they'd be able to protect some of their vunerabilities through the rennovation process. I can't think of anything more vunerable in the US than train stations in NYC to a terrorist attack.

But really, it's just something that needs to be done. I'm not a technician or an engineer, I can't claim to know the best process. All I know is that it's not an impossibility, that it'll be expensive and that it SHOULD be done.

As to your last question, no I don't think it necessarily would have been done already. It's something that has gone on the backburner before, and recent events could have easily have put it even further down on the priority list. And the fact that it would be such a difficult process complicates it all the more.

I'd like to see some things done before New York City gets the Olympics, at least

 

[Loki]

If NY gets the Olympics, I'll kill myself. Seriously.


I can't even imagine the freaking gridlock and quality of life issues that would ensue. But Bloom-freaking-berg and his big business partners (all billionaires) seem pretty gung-ho on the idea-- gee, I wonder why. Can you say, "windfall"? :lol


NY hosting the Olympics would be even worse than this ill-fated Nets arena they're trying to build downtown in Brooklyn.

 

[Amir0x]

I seriously cannot imagine the disasterous gridloc that would ensue from NY hosting the Olympics.

 

[goodcow]

Oh, isn't New York dedicated 30 billion dollars to some complete Subway rennovation anyway?

To put things in perspective, the MTA asked for $30-some odd billion over five years from Pataki and he only gave us about $19 billion.

 

[Rei_Toei]

There's gonna be a lot of hatin' for that specific homeless person :lol.

 

[Deg]

They shouldnt have let that homeless person do this then. Where was security or the police? No cameras? No nothing?

NYC is suppossed to be better than London Underground so i am assuming you people are soft Plus 24/7 trains is fantastic to have.

 

[xsarien]

They shouldnt have let that homeless person do this then. Where was security or the police? No cameras? No nothing?

There are conflicting reports of what precisely took place. One story indicated that the homeless pesron broke through several locks, and then entered the switch room. Others say that the fire was started outside the room, but the flames reached high enough to cause an electrical short that travelled into the room.

It's awfully moot now, isn't it?

NYC is suppossed to be better than London Underground so i am assuming you people are soft Plus 24/7 trains is fantastic to have.

It's not that we're soft, it's that the timing could not have been any worse. A huge blizzard, at least a foot and a half of snow in some parts of the region, and a cold snap that is just now breaking with temperatures reaching an oh-so-balmy 20-30F.

 

[FortNinety]

You know...

It can be delayed, it stinks in the summer, it's fucking freezing in the winter, it's crowded, dingy, and expensive. But when you need a train at 2am, one will probably be pulling into the station in around 10 minutes.

24/7 public transportation is a grand thing, and it's astonishing that a system as extensive and old as the NYC subway system can do it with relatively few hiccups.

10 minutes? I think you're being super generous there. I recall times, quite recently, where waiting for a train took about 30-40 minutes, and this is past 11pm, not exactly late night, and in Sunset Park, not exactly in the middle of nowhere.

And I have to say, the "well it's pretty good all things considered" just doesn't work for me anymore. Things seem to get worse and worse everyday, with the corruption, misinformation, and the delays, etc.

On my end, my commute which normally takes 30 minutes took close to an hour. I live in Manhattan on the upper west side and, as expected, the train was packed with those who would be talking the A or C trains normally.

And yes... when the Olympics comes, that's when I move out.

 

[brooklyngooner]

If NY gets the Olympics, I'll kill myself. Seriously.


I can't even imagine the freaking gridlock and quality of life issues that would ensue. But Bloom-freaking-berg and his big business partners (all billionaires) seem pretty gung-ho on the idea-- gee, I wonder why. Can you say, "windfall"? :lol


NY hosting the Olympics would be even worse than this ill-fated Nets arena they're trying to build downtown in Brooklyn.

I don't usually agree with you Loki, but I do one thousand and ten percent here on all counts. We can't even pay our teachers but a stadium to host eight football games a year at the cost of two billion makes perfect sense. The Nets stadium deal is so odious it makes my eyes water.

As far as people on about the NYC transit system, remember that unlike other cities whose systems were built all at once and laid out for maximum efficiency, NYC transit lines used to be independently owned and operated. That's where names like the BMT, the Lex, IRT, etc. come from. They all go to generally different parts of residential areas of the boroughs but all converge in downtown and midtown.

 

[brooklyngooner]

10 minutes? I think you're being super generous there. I recall times, quite recently, where waiting for a train took about 30-40 minutes, and this is past 11pm, not exactly late night, and in Sunset Park, not exactly in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah, nothing like the yellow garbage or money train at 5AM when you've been drinking for twelve hours and need to get the fuck home.

 

[xsarien]

10 minutes? I think you're being super generous there. I recall times, quite recently, where waiting for a train took about 30-40 minutes, and this is past 11pm, not exactly late night, and in Sunset Park, not exactly in the middle of nowhere.

I guess I've just got timing. I don't think I've ever had to wait close to an hour for even the G in the middle of Brooklyn, and I've had my fair share of late nights there.

And I have to say, the "well it's pretty good all things considered" just doesn't work for me anymore. Things seem to get worse and worse everyday, with the corruption, misinformation, and the delays, etc.

Anyone ever tell you that you're a pessimist?

On my end, my commute which normally takes 30 minutes took close to an hour. I live in Manhattan on the upper west side and, as expected, the train was packed with those who would be talking the A or C trains normally.

Well, in this particular case, it's not really the MTA's fault. Blame the homeless guy who decided to light a fire in a subway station. Do you think they LIKE coming out and giving the public even more reason to hate them?

 

[FortNinety]

Well, in this particular case, it's not really the MTA's fault. Blame the homeless guy who decided to light a fire in a subway station. Do you think they LIKE coming out and giving the public even more reason to hate them?

Well first off, I really feel like an asshole for blaming a homeless person for just trying to stay warm. But as it's been said, how the fuck did he get down there (like countless others do all the time)?

It's been said that given the scope of the subway system, it's impossible to moniter the whole system. Yeah well.... didn't this whole city go through a massive shakedown when it came to fear of terrorism? I'm not saying I bought into the whole fear of attack mumbo-jumbo that lawmakers used to justify preferential treatment and to get what they want, but at the very least they should be consistent about things.

Anyone ever tell you that you're a pessimist?

All the time. Keeps me young.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Well that sucks the A train was the perfect route for tourists easily getting around manhattan.

 

[The Faceless Master]

and the letter trains and number trains have different car and track widths, making them sort of incompatible...

it's a good thing i hardly use the A train... except to get to times square fast...

i remember using it in during rush hour a few years ago, it was ALWAYS packed... i cant even imagine it now...

 

[scorcho]

i ended my old internship by city hall a few weeks ago and hated taking the A/C/E down that far. timing is everything in life.

 

[Loki]

I don't usually agree with you Loki

Well, they say there's no accounting for taste...

We can't even pay our teachers but a stadium to host eight football games a year at the cost of two billion makes perfect sense. The Nets stadium deal is so odious it makes my eyes water.

Yup. Like I've said so many times in the past, most issues such as this come back to our values as a society. People may say, "oh, but I have nothing to do with this", or "but it's the (nebulous) 'market' that determines these things", but the fact remains that if the people felt strongly enough about what they should feel strongly about, then they wouldn't permit things like this to happen. We're in the midst of the worst city budget crisis since 9/11, but let's dole out hundreds of millions of dollars in corporate welfare to some guy who already has billions of dollars despite the fact that every independent economic analysis has shown that this will be a net loss for the city over the long term. Real sound thinking, that.

 

[bob_arctor]

But when you need a train at 2am, one will probably be pulling into the station in around 10 minutes.

Ah, I see someone's never had the pleasure of waiting late night at 180th for the 2 or 5 train. Sure is fun come winter! God, the shit you'd hear while waiting:

One black girl: "Jack Frost is really fucking with us, ain't he?."
Other black girl (indignant): "Yeah. Little white devil!"

I really think the 180th St. station is secretly a portal to Hell.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

(Unless you live in the boroughs, then this news sucks ass)

What the shit?!

MOST new yorkers LIVE in the buroughs

Ah, I see someone's never had the pleasure of waiting late night at 180th for the 2 or 5 train. Sure is fun come winter! God, the shit you'd hear while waiting:

One black girl: "Jack Frost is really fucking with us, ain't he?."
Other black girl (indignant): "Yeah. Little white devil!"

I really think the 180th St. station is secretly a portal to Hell.

lol

with that said...thank god i dont live in brooklyn or this would have been a major annoyance on my daily routines.

peace

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Oh jesus christ...

...NYC has the worst subway system in the freakin' world. Why don't you join Tokyo, NYC? They have the best subway system evar!

Oh, isn't New York dedicated 30 billion dollars to some complete Subway rennovation anyway?

it's 100 years old, it's 24/7/365 the MTA is constantly broke. i dont like them but they work miracles. tokyo can go suck it hard.

 

[AstroLad]

Ah, I see someone's never had the pleasure of waiting late night at 180th for the 2 or 5 train. Sure is fun come winter! God, the shit you'd hear while waiting:

One black girl: "Jack Frost is really fucking with us, ain't he?."
Other black girl (indignant): "Yeah. Little white devil!"

I really think the 180th St. station is secretly a portal to Hell.

Jack Frost is white though.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Jack Frost is white though.

damn whitey......

(Unless you live in the boroughs, then this news sucks ass)

the city is the five boroughs. dont listen to those stuck-up manhatannites.

the sad thing is that this shows how easy it is to pull off another terrorist attack if they really wanted to. hell, i've though about it for years (not pulling off an attack, how easy it is to pull one)

 

[goodcow]

10 minutes? I think you're being super generous there. I recall times, quite recently, where waiting for a train took about 30-40 minutes, and this is past 11pm, not exactly late night, and in Sunset Park, not exactly in the middle of nowhere.

Late night headways are never supposed to be greater than twenty minutes.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Late night headways are never supposed to be greater than twenty minutes.

yeah that's true except for the N,R,Q,W line. it blows chunks.

 

[FortNinety]

Late night headways are never supposed to be greater than twenty minutes.

yeah that's true except for the N,R,Q,W line. it blows chunks.

Exactly. The shitty late night service was the main reason why I moved out of Bay Ridge.

 

[lachesis]

Damn. This sucks. I take A/C every day. I haven't noticed the delays yet because I called in sick from work yesterday (the whole Inauguration got me worned out) and I walked 30 blocks for excercise this morning... I will probably have to switch to 1/9 train and walk off a couple blocks to get Port Authority.

lachesis

 

[CorruptionDee]

This news does suck. As a NYer, anything subway related is noteworthy news, since the subway for me (and a few million other NYers) is my primary method of transportation. I feel sorry for the people who are affected by this inconvienience directly. It impacts all of us is some way, because it means that our lines will be twice as crowded. At least my "1" train is running well.

 

[Shinobi]

If NY gets the Olympics, I'll kill myself. Seriously.


I can't even imagine the freaking gridlock and quality of life issues that would ensue. But Bloom-freaking-berg and his big business partners (all billionaires) seem pretty gung-ho on the idea-- gee, I wonder why. Can you say, "windfall"? :lol


NY hosting the Olympics would be even worse than this ill-fated Nets arena they're trying to build downtown in Brooklyn.

City officials are like this all the time when it comes to getting in events, and it's a hundred times worse with the Olympics, the biggest money-losing sporing event on the calender. Up here it was no different, promising a new subway line that hooks up to the airport (the only major city in North America that doesn't have this), billions in re-development for the waterfront, upgraded transit services, the whole nine. And then they said the Olympics wouldn't cost any taxpayers money. :lol Yeah okay bud, and the ticket prices would've been consumer friendly too. I was one of the people who cheered when we lost the bid to Beijeng. Had we won the bid, I would've moved outta town while the games went on.

With all the money you guys will need to repair the subway system, the last thing you need is the Olympics. Simply isn't worth it, regardless how many times city officials drop bullshit rhetoric like "economic impact".

And don't get me started on the arena/stadium deals. The biggest hypocrisy in sports today (and there's a load of 'em) are fat cat owners who make millions and billions in other businesses and get buildings built for them on the taxypayer's dime, turning around and crying poor because they can't afford the salaries that they choose to pay. Just makes me sick. But er, I guess that's a rant for a different thread. :lol

 

[Loki]

City officials are like this all the time when it comes to getting in events, and it's a hundred times worse with the Olympics, the biggest money-losing sporing event on the calender. Up here it was no different, promising a new subway line that hooks up to the airport (the only major city in North America that doesn't have this), billions in re-development for the waterfront, upgraded transit services, the whole nine. And then they said the Olympics wouldn't cost any taxpayers money. :lol Yeah okay bud, and the ticket prices would've been consumer friendly too. I was one of the people who cheered when we lost the bid to Beijeng. Had we won the bid, I would've moved outta town while the games went on.

With all the money you guys will need to repair the subway system, the last thing you need is the Olympics. Simply isn't worth it, regardless how many times city officials drop bullshit rhetoric like "economic impact".

And don't get me started on the arena/stadium deals. The biggest hypocrisy in sports today (and there's a load of 'em) are fat cat owners who make millions and billions in other businesses and get buildings built for them on the taxypayer's dime, turning around and crying poor because they can't afford the salaries that they choose to pay. Just makes me sick. But er, I guess that's a rant for a different thread. :lol

Seriously.

I'm telling you dude-- one day you and I should nuke these mofos!

 

[Mejilan]

My commute to work goes along the 2/3 -> 4/5 -> 6 (from Prospect Park Brooklyn to 51st St Manhattan.)

I'm used to an annoyingly long 45 minutes commute, but all of the A/C'ers tagging along are now effectively going to make the 6 the busiest line yet, methinks.

SUCKS.

 

[The Faceless Master]

apparently, the damage is not as bad as originally thought and 50% of A train service will take 2 weeks, 80% A train service in 3 months, and 6 to 9 months for full A train service and C train service

 

[FortNinety]

apparently, the damage is not as bad as originally thought and 50% of A train service will take 2 weeks, 80% A train service in 3 months, and 6 to 9 months for full A train service and C train service

This is good news. But I can't help wondering... if the public reaction wasn't as strong as it was (it made the headlines all over the place), would the MTA even admitted such revised info and simply use the original estimates to take their sweet time?