|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & Next Xbox |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Next Gen Consoles Power Level


  • Total voters
    262

SonGoku

Member
Aug 16, 2018
3,993
3,900
560
So Apple not using EUV.....
Huawei is
As for the CPU, I would say gimp is too strong a word but we aren't getting a full fat desktop CPU 65W part in the APU.
Disingenuous statement, power consumption is related to frequency and voltage not sillicon
Zen2 CCD is already tiny (comparable to jaguar on 28mm2), it would be a disappointment for sure if they gimp it to save 20mm2.

At least Scarlet is confirmed to be using the full fat ZEN2 CCD going by MS's 4 times the XBONEX CPU claim.
 
Last edited:

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
13,659
1,851
1,975
Huawei is

Disingenuous statement, power consumption is related to frequency and voltage not sillicon
Zen2 CCD is already tiny (comparable to jaguar on 28mm2), it would be a disappointment for sure if they gimp it to save 20mm2.

At least Scarlet is confirmed to be using the full fat ZEN2 CCD going by MS's 4 times the XBONEX CPU claim.
I think both consoles will have the same Zen2 cores setup.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Mar 31, 2006
4,449
307
1,215
Midlands, UK
Huawei is

Disingenuous statement, power consumption is related to frequency and voltage not sillicon
Zen2 CCD is already tiny (comparable to jaguar on 28mm2), it would be a disappointment for sure if they gimp it to save 20mm2.

At least Scarlet is confirmed to be using the full fat ZEN2 CCD going by MS's 4 times the XBONEX CPU claim.
Sigh...LOL.

OK, back to lurking.
 

Bryank75

Member
Jan 12, 2018
2,108
2,365
570
Ireland
Thought this was an interesting video showing some potential of the PS5 / Scarlet.
Of course he didn't have hardware based Raytracing or loading as fast as shown at the PlayStation event etc.

 

TeamGhobad

Member
Oct 15, 2018
2,519
2,447
450

Big improvements with RDNA. New consoles should be really good even if they are 9TF.
So a nextgen CU with the same clock and membandwidth is abt 35-60% more powerful than a current gen CU.

Taking into account the faster mem and clocks and yes we do have a beast on our hands.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bryank75

Sycomunkee

Member
Jan 21, 2019
1,606
1,414
390
So a nextgen CU with the same clock and membandwidth is abt 35-60% more powerful than a current gen CU.

Taking into account the faster mem and clocks and yes we do have a beast on our hands.
Are people actually understanding why 9-10TF would be just fine? It’s like 2 x the GPU in the X, and the CPU is 4 x.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bryank75

Negotiator

Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,077
706
695
Are people actually understanding why 9-10TF would be just fine? It’s like 2 x the GPU in the X, and the CPU is 4 x.
GCN 1.1 CUs were more efficient than RSX discrete pipelines and yet, nobody brought it up back in 2012.

I mean, imagine if we had gotten a 1TF GCN GPU on PS4 instead of 1.84TF. Wouldn't it still be a lot faster and efficient than RSX (192GF)?

All in all, I don't understand why efficiency suddenly became a talking point for the next-gen transition this time around. I take it for granted every single time, but maybe that's just me. :)
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: SonGoku

magnumpy

Member
Sep 8, 2014
1,304
138
455
Texas
are we waiting until 5nm is really available for next gen or just 7nm+++? I should ask rather, what year are we expecting next gen? 2020? 2021? later?

° ͜ʖ ͡°
 

Negotiator

Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,077
706
695
are we waiting until 5nm is really available for next gen or just 7nm+++? I should ask rather, what year are we expecting next gen? 2020? 2021? later?

° ͜ʖ ͡°
7nm is basically confirmed, we just don't know the details (DUV or EUV). 2 GHz might be a hint though...

TBH, I think the nanometer scale is marketing/PR BS these days. What matters is the actual density (how many transistors fit in 1 mm2 of space).

 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: DemonCleaner

Negotiator

Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,077
706
695
So Apple not using EUV.....

"These optimizations could be partly attributed to Apple reportedly having TSMC make the A13 Bionic with its second-generation 7nm process, which is its first to use extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography. That switch to a new process resulted in a greater transistor count, and the increased density would lead to higher performance, as well as changes to the chip's power requirements"

Apparently Apple will use 5nm next year. Mobile SoCs are even more bleeding edge than console APUs.
 

Imtjnotu

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,024
1,486
390
san diego

"These optimizations could be partly attributed to Apple reportedly having TSMC make the A13 Bionic with its second-generation 7nm process, which is its first to use extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography. That switch to a new process resulted in a greater transistor count, and the increased density would lead to higher performance, as well as changes to the chip's power requirements"

Apparently Apple will use 5nm next year. Mobile SoCs are even more bleeding edge than console APUs.
Well they are no where near as big or as powerful. Bigger wafers are the issue. The a13 might be now pushing 2013 graphics not 2020
 

Darius87

Member
Jul 16, 2018
328
182
235
So a nextgen CU with the same clock and membandwidth is abt 35-60% more powerful than a current gen CU.

Taking into account the faster mem and clocks and yes we do have a beast on our hands.
There's more to RDNA then just clocks and memory bandwidth like: wavefront32, dual CU's, new L1 cache, async compute tunneling, and add sony custom features on top of that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TeamGhobad and TLZ

Dr.D00p

Member
May 23, 2019
137
243
195
Have we all settled on what we think the final spec of the PS5 will be, then? I'm sticking with:

~3Ghz CPU
~2Ghz GPU
12TF
16GB application RAM
4GB OS RAM (reserved)
1TB SSD (M2)
Hardware ray tracing (that won't be as good as nVidia's offering, but will actually be pretty good as it stands) (#secretsauce)
Dualshock 5 will have some sort of meh new feature that no one will really give a hoot about (and the battery will only be about 10% better than the DS4)
Backward compatible with PS4 (+Pro) only* (other consoles supported via PS Now!)
Functional, if quite unremarkable black housing, as it needs to be kept practical for fans and heat
Don't know about the rest of the specs you've speculated but these consoles will not come with a convential PC type SSD.

They will have a custom, ultra high speed, but relatively low capacity (upto 64GB??) type cache that will allow data for the current game level that is being played to be stored and retrieved at speeds that will allow Sony & Microsofts claims of virtually no loading times to be realised.

Even the fastest PC NVMe SSD drive doesn't allow for that kind of speed. Only memory based cache storage does.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pawel86ck

bhunachicken

Member
Apr 11, 2018
300
356
280
They will have a custom, ultra high speed, but relatively low capacity (upto 64GB??) type cache that will allow data for the current game level that is being played to be stored and retrieved at speeds that will allow Sony & Microsofts claims of virtually no loading times to be realised.
This would make sense so that a user could upgrade the storage without needing to buy something propriety and expensive. In effect, it'd be an SSHD solution. It also means that one would only be able to appreciate all the speed benefits by sticking to one title at a time, so that the cached data isn't evicted constantly.
 

Dr.D00p

Member
May 23, 2019
137
243
195
It also means that one would only be able to appreciate all the speed benefits by sticking to one title at a time, so that the cached data isn't evicted constantly.
Not really, for arguments sake lets say it does come with 64GB of cache type storage, and the consoles themselves come with 16GB-24GB of RAM, that would mean when playing your game, the cache storage would only ever need to hold the required few GB's worth of level data at a time whilst playing. So you could potentially hold data from multiple titles in the cache at a time.
 

Negotiator

Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,077
706
695
64GB (a single chip) of NAND storage is not going to give you 4GB/s transfer rates. You need an array of multiple NAND chips to get those speeds.

There's no other way to saturate the ultra-fast PCIe 4.0 bus, otherwise what's the point of putting PCIe 4.0 on consoles? Judging by X570, PCIe 4.0 has a TDP cost that requires active cooling.

Cerny promised instant loading times with the Spiderman demo, not caching. It's all about reducing friction, and thus increasing user engagement.
 
Last edited:

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Mar 31, 2006
4,449
307
1,215
Midlands, UK

"These optimizations could be partly attributed to Apple reportedly having TSMC make the A13 Bionic with its second-generation 7nm process, which is its first to use extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography. That switch to a new process resulted in a greater transistor count, and the increased density would lead to higher performance, as well as changes to the chip's power requirements"

Apparently Apple will use 5nm next year. Mobile SoCs are even more bleeding edge than console APUs.
SonGoku stated Apple were using 7NP. I assumed it was confirmed. I take it back.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Member
Dec 28, 2016
926
1,071
460
Indiana
So have to ask if there is anything to read into this (which I doubt).

A few days ago Phil Spencer said they just got their first game running on Scarlett and Mike Ybarra (sp?) confirmed this on Major Nelson radio yesterday.

It seems odd to me they just now got a game running on this when we have had devs confirm PS5 devkits unless they dont have games running on them either I suppose.

Yeah I am just that bored and wanting info where are our damn leaks??
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lunatic_Gamer

NickFire

Gold Member
Mar 12, 2014
5,190
4,030
735
So have to ask if there is anything to read into this (which I doubt).

A few days ago Phil Spencer said they just got their first game running on Scarlett and Mike Ybarra (sp?) confirmed this on Major Nelson radio yesterday.

It seems odd to me they just now got a game running on this when we have had devs confirm PS5 devkits unless they dont have games running on them either I suppose.

Yeah I am just that bored and wanting info where are our damn leaks??
I could be wrong, but my hunch is most games are not developed on the dev kits until they get pretty far into the process. I believe this because it sounds logical to me that you start with broad stuff and then move the development to more discrete platforms, to avoid duplicating work. I know MS is not a 3rd party releasing on multiple consoles, but PC is still a platform too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeisenbergFX4

DemonCleaner

Member
Jun 11, 2004
1,655
281
1,625
PS5 Pro to launch alongside the standard model,
gaming & tech journalst Zenji Nishikawa says
i have a real hard time believing that after even MS burried this stupid idea. there might be two variants with different harddrive sizes and such... maybe he just interpretated the info the wrong way.
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: V4skunk

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
6,711
3,315
870
PS5 Pro to launch alongside the standard model,
gaming & tech journalst Zenji Nishikawa says

That's just unsupported speculation.
The main motivation behind the PS4 Pro were simple manufacturing economics. AMD presented Sony with the possibility for a very reasonably priced GPU upgrade, and Sony figured out how to market it from there.
Launching a PS5 Pro alongside the base model would defeat those purposes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SonGoku

Negotiator

Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,077
706
695
The main motivation behind the PS4 Pro were simple manufacturing economics. AMD presented Sony with the possibility for a very reasonably priced GPU upgrade, and Sony figured out how to market it from there.
Actually Sony had it planned from the get-go, long before the OG PS4 launch:



 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: joe_zazen

SonGoku

Member
Aug 16, 2018
3,993
3,900
560

McHuj

Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,209
222
1,195
Austin, Tx.
The final PS4 APU (SoC-based devkit) became available no earlier than January 2013.


It does. Sony has access to RDNA2 tech.

How else do they plan to implement hardware-based RT?
It’s a minimum of 3-4 months from tapeout to when chips arrive back at the fab.

Likely final production silicon is taping out in Q4 and will arrive for final devkits and console production in 2020 Q. This would. give them 3-5 months to build up volumes for a decent size launch.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Mar 31, 2006
4,449
307
1,215
Midlands, UK
The final PS4 APU (SoC-based devkit) became available no earlier than January 2013.
I don't believe a design goes straight from design complete/tape-out to being mass produced for dev kits or a product. There are 12+ months of verification and respins at least?

Example: Zen 2 was "design complete" in January 2018 according to AMD but didn't go on sale until July 2019.
 

sonomamashine

Member
Jun 29, 2019
592
299
285
It does. Sony has access to RDNA2 tech.

How else do they plan to implement hardware-based RT?
They have an early sample and ... still in design wich means not completed, then production, for example AMD CPU 7nm+ is complete


expect mid 2020, RDNA2 late 2020 early 2021 release, we wont see a next gen release untill E3 or later.
 

joe_zazen

Member
May 2, 2017
1,647
1,374
415
It is 18 months minimum for phones from final tape out to store shelves, and console dev is way slower than phone dev because way more money goes into phone chip dev. So the designs have to be done by now 100%. Whether they are in dev kits, idk.

And if it is a may launch they would have been done since end of 2018, which is what i am hoping because i am really tired of this gen.
 
Last edited:

SonGoku

Member
Aug 16, 2018
3,993
3,900
560
Console designs can be ahead of retail
This gen and the past shown AMD is willing to equip consoles with the latest (or better) GPU tech at time of release.