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[Gamernyc78]

So you're getting both then?

Right now in my house I haveee two switches, two ps4's and one Xbox one s. I regretted buying the Xbox s bcus the games don't attract me. However if the software comes around I'd definitely be open to getting it. Right now it's 40/100 chance I'll buy one after I read the Osiris info. Ps5 is day one bcus I'm a big exclusive Sony player I even enjoy their multiplayer games better than the competition like Uncharted 4, MLB the show, Killzone, etc..

 

[Clintizzle]

My Girlfriend said that my 12inches were not as good as her dads 12.8.

We are no longer together.

#Pray4Me

 

[CyberPanda]

My Girlfriend said that my 12inches were not as good as her dads 12.8.

We are no longer together.

#Pray4Me

Bless her heart for being able to take 12 inches.

 

[Gamernyc78]

My Girlfriend said that my 12inches were not as good as her dads 12.8.

We are no longer together.

#Pray4Me

Omg what am I going to do with my 4inch lockhart fuck you monster anacondas

 

[Bryank75]

Right now in my house I haveee two switches, two ps4's and one Xbox one s. I regretted buying the Xbox s bcus the games don't attract me. However if the software comes around I'd definitely be open to getting it. Right now it's 40/100 chance I'll buy one after I read the Osiris info. Ps5 is day one bcus I'm a big exclusive Sony player I even enjoy their multiplayer games better than the competition like Uncharted 4, MLB the show, Killzone, etc..

Yeah, I am with you.

 

[VFXVeteran]

So, we are thinking 12 tflops for both, maybe PS5 a little higher (negligible amount)
With Scar cpu rumoured to be 3.5 vs PS5 3.2?

But we don't know where they stand with raytracing.... metrics here are harder to convey!?

Sounds good. Wish they'd dump the budget xbox though...

I'm going to try to work on an article that will relate the TFLOPS to actual game performance (including ray-tracing). If you guys basically took a game and measured what a 5700XT or 1080Ti can do (we can shoot for the ceiling on this) with a game like Modern Warfare @ 4k (argubly the best looking game this generation) with all options on ultra, you'd get an idea if the game would even run or not. Same with RTX. A 1080Ti can't do much with RTX I'm afraid, so I wouldn't bank on many RT features coming down the pike this generation.

 

[Norse]

In this very same thread, Osiris said he didn't hear anything about 12 or even 11 TF. For Osiris, that would put ps5 at ~10.9, Microsoft around 10. Idk, just doesn't seem like this person should be seen as credible compared to the sources today. This feels like a controlled leak by Microsoft, its coming from a bunch of xbox-centric personalities on social media.

You guys are all missing Osirisblack's most important part he posted.......the thank you to Spencer for keeping his word.

Now all these rumored specs are out there and only time will tell which ones become true. It doesn't matter which specs you feel are true or not, but for the love of God, do not post rumored specs as fact! Nothing is real until both camps have their reveal shows.

 

[Imtjnotu]

You guys are all missing Osirisblack's most important part he posted.......the thank you to Spencer for keeping his word.

Now all these rumored specs are out there and only time will tell which ones become true. It doesn't matter which specs you feel are true or not, but for the love of God, do not post rumored specs as fact! Nothing is real until both camps have their reveal shows.

What was so special about the thank you?

 

[Norse]

What was so special about the thank you?

What exactly did Spencer promise at E3 2019? At least that's what I took the "thank you" to reference. But I could be wrong. Maybe Osiris will comment more.

 

[XcloudTimdog]

orisis black knows shit. I told him to wait and day or two for news. You guys would die if you knew my sources. Just face it, most likely xbox has most powerful sku. But like i was told, its all relative to price. Thanks im done

 

[Fake]

Take easy.

 

[jonnyp]

orisis black knows shit. I told him to wait and day or two for news. You guys would die if you knew my sources. Just face it, most likely xbox has most powerful sku. But like i was told, its all relative to price. Thanks im done

*facepalm*

 

[Aceofspades]

12TF...I dont see that happening with regular 7nm. 7nm+? Perhaps, but not on regular node.

12TF+ for Sony? Yea right lol. With 256bit bus...

So you are saying 12TF is now possible since its MS?! What happened to the walls of texts saying "consoles" cannot be higher than 9TF RDNA? Or you were just shitting on PS5 in disguise? C'mon man, you are better than this

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

orisis black knows shit. I told him to wait and day or two for news. You guys would die if you knew my sources. Just face it, most likely xbox has most powerful sku. But like i was told, its all relative to price. Thanks im done

Its what I have been saying.

It doesn't matter how powerful either is if they price it too high.

 

[Tqaulity]

I for one am sceptical. Like, really, rreally sceptical. - a 9,75TF 5700XT already heats more than a 2080Ti and draws as much power as a 1080Ti/2080. so how on earth they want to put a 12TF GPU into a tiny plastic box and cool it without jet engine sounds like the PS4/Pro did? And that's just the CUs alone, without counting RT cores. And they are already on 7nm compared to NV, it's not like they can shrink the whole thing any more.

Sure, throwing numbers on the internet is easy, even a 5yo kids with a tablet can do it, but let's put all the childish hype away for at least split of a second and go back to planet Earth - 12TF means something like 56CUs @1,7GHz - that's 40% bigger GPU than 5700xT that already reaches 90 Celsius degrees... Plus the RT cores, don't forget the RT cores, they take up about 20% space of each SM in Turing GPUs, that's A LOT, and I don't think AMD's very first take on the matter will be significantly better, if any.

LOL, I don't understand why everyone is sooo surprised to hear that Scarlet (and likely PS5 as well) will be 12 TFLOPs. There have been no less than a dozen "leaks" and rumors (mostly for PS5) all pointing to the GPU being "double digit" TFLOPs with most people saying 12-14TFLOPs for the better part of the last year. These "new" Scarlet specs match what was leaked back in Feb 2019 indicating 12+ TFLOPs on the GPU and PS5 leaks have been pointing to the GPU being 12-14 TFLOPs since last winter. I've been saying it for months repeatedly that people are underestimating next gen specs and supporting my claims with sound logic and some facts. Just because you can't see how they can make that happen, doesn't mean they won't. When you have giant corporations like Sony, Microsoft, and AMD investing 9 figure $ amounts for 4-5 years of development a custom chip solely for the application of this gaming console, I would trust that they would make some amazing things happen

More specifically to the skeptics talking about TDP and power, consider this: how many people actual remember that there are 3 variants of the RTX 2080 GPU from Nvidia? Right, let's recap:

GPU	TDP (W)	Approx Power	Clock Speed (base | boost)
RTX 2080 (Desktop)	215	+15% over 5700 XT | 7-8% > 1080ti	1515 | 1710
RTX 2080 (Laptop)	150	2-3% faster than GTX 1080ti	1380 | 1590
RTX 2080 (Max-Q)	80-90	~GTX 1080 | 5-10% less than a 5700 (non XT)	735-990 | 1095-1230
RX 5700 XT (Desktop)	225	7% less than GTX 1080Ti | slightly faster than RTX 2070	1605 | 1905

So what do we take from this:

1. Nvidia is able to take a full RTX 2080 GPU (2944 shading units) and scale it from 215W down to 80W for ultra slim laptops. 80-100W is an ideal power envelope for a console GPU.
2. Nvidia is able to get 1080ti level performance in < 150W on 12nm process! AMD has the advantage of being on a 7nm process which is roughly half the size per transistor. Do you really think it's not feasible for AMD to achieve 1080Ti level perf at around 100W TDP on 7nm if Nvidia is already doing it at <150W on 12nm?
3. Console GPU are not the same as desktop GPUs! In fact, they are closer to the GPUs you find in laptops (but still customized from those). Remember AMD also has the advantage with these consoles being a fixed box with a singular cooling solution that they can design for. With PC desktop, every user can have a different system cooling solution making it harder to design around. Also console GPUs do not look like the massive external boards used for the desktop GPU as they are integrated directly into the APU and draw their power from the system. In other words, their size and heat output is much less than their desktop counterparts.

As I've been saying for a while now, it is absolutely possible for AMD to develop a GPU in the 12 TFLOP range for a console by end of 2020. The next gen console GPUs will also be based on silicon that we have not seen yet and won't be released in any form until mid 2020 (RX 5800 series). They will be even more efficient than current gen Navi and support a wider range of power skus. Trust me, next gen will be a big increase across the board!

 

[quest]

Its what I have been saying.

It doesn't matter how powerful either is if they price it too high.

I that both will be 449.99 or 499.99 usd for the lowest skull and 50 or 100 more for double storage. If the leaked specs are close to true they both be worth the cost. I still not sure because sounds way to high for MS since we have been told since June that Sony is up 5-10 percent.

 

[TLZ]

12.8? When did that come about? As of two days ago it was ~10 but now that Xbox has 12, PlayStation has 12.8? Where’s the article to back that up? PlayStation Dev Lits have been in the wild for some time now. Xbox Dev kits have been in the wild for a week or two and the information is now leaking. Where’s the source?

Ignore it. It was a joke apparently.

orisis black knows shit. I told him to wait and day or two for news. You guys would die if you knew my sources. Just face it, most likely xbox has most powerful sku. But like i was told, its all relative to price. Thanks im done

As long as both are above 12tf, I'm a happy console fan. That's the least I expect for nextgen. I was hoping for 14tf though.

 

[SlimySnake]

good lord, some of the backpeddling here is something else. just admit you were wrong and 12 tflops wasnt as impossible as you said.

no idea why men just cant man up and admit they made a mistake. its like the easiest thing to do.

i am getting too old for this bullshit.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I've seen rumors for over 12 from months ago on reddit. The guy also posted a picture of the meeting room as well.

Ah ok, well that makes some sense. I have a feeling the gap will be closer to 12 - 12.25 or so. If those old rumors are something to go by then that might be the way to go. I simply believe it will be a fairly even playing field, but if Sony does make it to 12.9, good on them. PSVR2 will definitely need all the power it can get. But Microsoft would win on price alone because 12.9 with 24GB of RAM will be expensive as hell.

 

[Gamernyc78]

What exactly did Spencer promise at E3 2019? At least that's what I took the "thank you" to reference. But I could be wrong. Maybe Osiris will comment more.

This I believe is in relation to the acquisition of new studios and doubling down on software bcus thy have been sucking in tht exclusive Dept. Osiris said tht what he's seen and heard on next ox software front looks good so I believe he was thanking Phil.

 

[psorcerer]

May I ask why you think it's a crap technology?

Relies on denoise too much. I.e. it's very low resolution.
I think we need 1000Grays/sec to do complex scenes.
And it's not gonna happen because it means that each pixel on screen needs to be altered a lot of times in one frame, but it's actually a memory store/load, unless other methods of synchronization are invented it will all die on latency pretty fast.

 

[nowhat]

LOL, why are people still under the impression that Sony is in some 'bad way'????

Granted, I haven't kept up that closely with Sony financials, glad to hear they're doing better. But my point mainly was, MS still has undoubtedly much more money to burn if they're so inclined - but are they really? Sony's gaming division has been killing it pretty much the entire generation, but still I doubt Sony will want another PS3 (even at "$599!!!" they were making considerable loss with every console sold at launch). So it will be interesting to see how the pricing turns out.

 

[R600]

So you are saying 12TF is now possible since its MS?! What happened to the walls of texts saying "consoles" cannot be higher than 9TF RDNA? Or you were just shitting on PS5 in disguise? C'mon man, you are better than this

Well literally told you - I dont see how its possible on 7nm. So no, I dont think its possible unless its EUV.

As per Flute bencmark, PS5 has 256bit bus, therefore I dont see it having 12TF as even with fastest chips it would be bandwidth starved.

 

[OsirisBlack]

If you all really believe that the FF2400 is More powerful than 0000FF just give it a minute. They are BOTH > 10 with 0000FF having a slight advantage. Neither machine is sitting at 10TF. Lets see when others start talking about the Ray Tracing differences and what 0000FF has planned for extra storage. I'll go back and read everything back to page 299. Diana is not burned so I will be around. Also Phil does not have a dev kit. I'm going to ask if I can be very specific and I will post either way. Everything's about to drop the damn has been bombarded by Thanos.

 

[Von Hugh]

If you all really believe that the FF2400 is More powerful than 0000FF just give it a minute. They are BOTH > 10 with 0000FF having a slight advantage. Neither machine is sitting at 10TF. Lets see when others start talking about the Ray Tracing differences and what 0000FF has planned for extra storage. I'll go back and read everything back to page 299. Diana is not burned so I will be around. Also Phil does not have a dev kit. I'm going to ask if I can be very specific and I will post either way. Everything's about to drop the damn has been bombarded by Thanos.

Bring on the vague pieces of half-truths!

I'm sorry, I'm just allergic to bullshit.

 

[OsirisBlack]

My source confirmed for me at the beginning of the year between 1080 - 1080Ti performance. Seems to be right in-line.

Bring on the vague pieces of half-truths!

I'm sorry, I'm just allergic to bullshit.

That's actually exactly what I posted as that's what I was told about the FF2400 as far as its ray tracing capabilities. Overall performance should exceed that by a fair margin.

as for your allergies.


In due time when crime fleas my mind
All sneak thieves and playa haters can shine
But until then I keep the trillion cut diamonds shinin brilliant
I'll tell you half the story, the rest you fill it in
Long as the villian win
I spend Japan yen, attend major events
Catch me in the joints, convinced my iguanas is bitin
J-A-Y hyphen, controllin, manipulatin
I got a good life man!

Enjoy yours and take some sudafed.

 

[Kusarigama]

If you all really believe that the FF2400 is More powerful than 0000FF just give it a minute. They are BOTH > 10 with 0000FF having a slight advantage. Neither machine is sitting at 10TF. Lets see when others start talking about the Ray Tracing differences and what 0000FF has planned for extra storage. I'll go back and read everything back to page 299. Diana is not burned so I will be around. Also Phil does not have a dev kit. I'm going to ask if I can be very specific and I will post either way. Everything's about to drop the damn has been bombarded by Thanos.

Thanks for clearing it up. Imo people should now stop constantly wanting to validate previous information.

 

[VAL0R]

So, "X gon give it to ya" after all?

 

[Aceofspades]

If you all really believe that the FF2400 is More powerful than 0000FF just give it a minute. They are BOTH > 10 with 0000FF having a slight advantage. Neither machine is sitting at 10TF. Lets see when others start talking about the Ray Tracing differences and what 0000FF has planned for extra storage. I'll go back and read everything back to page 299. Diana is not burned so I will be around. Also Phil does not have a dev kit. I'm going to ask if I can be very specific and I will post either way. Everything's about to drop the damn has been bombarded by Thanos.

I have always told the #008000 fans to tame their excitement so we don't have a replica of 2013 events

Edit: Osiris dropping bombs

 

[FranXico]

I have always told the #008000 fans to tame their excitement so we don't have a replica of 2013 events

That is NEVER going to happen again though. Both have done their homework this time, let's hope.

 

[TLZ]

If you all really believe that the FF2400 is More powerful than 0000FF just give it a minute. They are BOTH > 10 with 0000FF having a slight advantage. Neither machine is sitting at 10TF. Lets see when others start talking about the Ray Tracing differences and what 0000FF has planned for extra storage. I'll go back and read everything back to page 299. Diana is not burned so I will be around. Also Phil does not have a dev kit. I'm going to ask if I can be very specific and I will post either way. Everything's about to drop the damn has been bombarded by Thanos.

How soon?

 

[-kb-]

If you all really believe that the FF2400 is More powerful than 0000FF just give it a minute. They are BOTH > 10 with 0000FF having a slight advantage. Neither machine is sitting at 10TF. Lets see when others start talking about the Ray Tracing differences and what 0000FF has planned for extra storage. I'll go back and read everything back to page 299. Diana is not burned so I will be around. Also Phil does not have a dev kit. I'm going to ask if I can be very specific and I will post either way. Everything's about to drop the damn has been bombarded by Thanos.

aww yisss, this sounds like either a very fast SSD or reram.

 

[bitbydeath]

If you all really believe that the FF2400 is More powerful than 0000FF just give it a minute. They are BOTH > 10 with 0000FF having a slight advantage. Neither machine is sitting at 10TF. Lets see when others start talking about the Ray Tracing differences and what 0000FF has planned for extra storage. I'll go back and read everything back to page 299. Diana is not burned so I will be around. Also Phil does not have a dev kit. I'm going to ask if I can be very specific and I will post either way. Everything's about to drop the damn has been bombarded by Thanos.

Out of curiosity does everything match what you’ve heard about Lockhart and Anaconda or have you heard some differences?

 

[sinnergy]

Yup silicon has to go somewhere, Xbox has real hardware based ray tracing for all effects at once, while ps5 has only room for select effects in games. So X might be 1 TF lower it makes up with ray tracing.

 

[-kb-]

Yup silicon has to go somewhere, Xbox has real hardware based ray tracing for all effects at once, while ps5 has only room for select effects in games. So X might be 1 TF lower it makes up with ray tracing.

We have no idea about the size of the PS5 die, and even if it is smaller it could be anything else (smaller cache, less CU's but higher clock) and still be the same / higher performance.

I mean the PS5 devkit does have an insane cooling design, i personally think its because the PS5 is going with a smaller die with higher clocks and voltage.

 

[Insane Metal]

Damn Osiris you tease.

 

[Mass Shift]

LOL, why are people still under the impression that Sony is in some 'bad way'????

Three years ago the stock was worth 28 dollars per share, now it's worth nearly 66 dollars. With a market value of over 80 billion and continuously rising. It is a 'strong buy' with every analyst and they are due to have profits of about 8 billion this year to add to their cash pile.

They have cash or equivalents of about 25 billion, rising to 33 / 34 billion by FYE.

If things keep going like this, they will soon be worth twice what Nintendo is.....

Search - MarketWatch

Search MarketWatch for the latest financial news and market data.

www.marketwatch.com

I agree, they're doing so much better overall. They've been diversifying and have held strong against activist investors who want them to sell off the entertainment division. Which I don't understand because gaming and entertainment are their chief profit contributions. Gaming being the largest at better than 40%.

Not a lot of gamer friendly people sit on their board, and I can't stand those types of elitist investors. They like the money they can make in Gaming, but they have no passion for gaming itself.

 

[Aceofspades]

Yup silicon has to go somewhere, Xbox has real hardware based ray tracing for all effects at once, while ps5 has only room for select effects in games. So X might be 1 TF lower it makes up with ray tracing.

Packaged Excuses are ready folks

Edit: waiting for Osiris bombs to drop

 

[TBiddy]

I mean the PS5 devkit does have an insane cooling design, i personally think its because the PS5 is going with a smaller die with higher clocks and voltage.

The PS5 devkit looks the way it does because it's easy for developers to stack them (physically).

 

[Filthy Casual]

So, forgetting about resolution for a second. What actual gameplay and overall graphical improvements can we expect next gen? How much greater in scale will GTA 6 be compared with 5 etc.

 

[-kb-]

The PS5 devkit looks the way it does because it's easy for developers to stack them (physically).

Pretty sure normal squares stack pretty well (like nearly every other devkit on the planet). Why the sudden change?.

 

[nowhat]

So, forgetting about resolution for a second. What actual gameplay and overall graphical improvements can we expect next gen? How much greater in scale will GTA 6 be compared with 5 etc.

Bah, that's something a filthy casual would ask

More seriously, one thing I'm looking forward to is significantly reduced/non-existent LOD pop-in. It's something that's understandable this gen, what with the stock 5400rpm drives, measly Jaguar cores and (to a lesser extent) RAM limitations. But with an SSD/actually viable CPU/more RAM, it should be a thing of the past.

 

[XcloudTimdog]

If you all really believe that the FF2400 is More powerful than 0000FF just give it a minute. They are BOTH > 10 with 0000FF having a slight advantage. Neither machine is sitting at 10TF. Lets see when others start talking about the Ray Tracing differences and what 0000FF has planned for extra storage. I'll go back and read everything back to page 299. Diana is not burned so I will be around. Also Phil does not have a dev kit. I'm going to ask if I can be very specific and I will post either way. Everything's about to drop the damn has been bombarded by Thanos.

Phil has takehome which is way ahead of schedule. When Phil got his takehome w/ X, it was way later than he has now. Stop lying please.

 

[mitchman]

Nvidia is able to take a full RTX 2080 GPU (2944 shading units) and scale it from 215W down to 80W for ultra slim laptops. 80-100W is an ideal power envelope for a console GPU.

Using TDP as a measurement of power draw is misleading at best, it's a number designed for something else (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power). Eg. on a i9-9900k CPU, TDP is 105W but the power draw can be as high as 190W when turboing on all cores.

 

[bellome]

So, forgetting about resolution for a second. What actual gameplay and overall graphical improvements can we expect next gen? How much greater in scale will GTA 6 be compared with 5 etc.

Nothing.

We care only about resolution and framerate.

We will play the same stuff with a more appealing look.

Aren't you happy?

 

[-kb-]

Phil has takehome which is way ahead of schedule. When Phil got his takehome w/ X, it was way later than he has now. Stop lying please.

The way I read the post you quoted is that Phil has taken home a final version of the console... not that Phil is lying.

 

[Filthy Casual]

Bah, that's something a filthy casual would ask

More seriously, one thing I'm looking forward to is significantly reduced/non-existent LOD pop-in. It's something that's understandable this gen, what with the stock 5400rpm drives, measly Jaguar cores and (to a lesser extent) RAM limitations. But with an SSD/actually viable CPU/more RAM, it should be a thing of the past.

Gotta be self aware ain't ya

Nothing.

We care only about resolution and framerate.

We will play the same stuff with a more appealing look.

Aren't you happy?

I am not happy with your sarcasm.

 

[FranXico]

The way I read the post you quoted is that Phil has taken home a final version of the console... not that Phil is lying.

Yes devkits are not the kind of device you bring home. If he brought a console home it's a production device, and near final.

 

[Bryank75]

Granted, I haven't kept up that closely with Sony financials, glad to hear they're doing better. But my point mainly was, MS still has undoubtedly much more money to burn if they're so inclined - but are they really? Sony's gaming division has been killing it pretty much the entire generation, but still I doubt Sony will want another PS3 (even at "$599!!!" they were making a considerable loss with every console sold at launch). So it will be interesting to see how the pricing turns out.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. MS has an absurd market value and cash pile.... but as you say, they mostly focus on Office and cloud applications. Lots of business to business stuff, like the Sony deal.
So it''s hard to know what their commitment to gaming is and what they are willing to invest.

One thing I've noticed is Sony comes from a capital intensive background, which has kinda conditioned them into investing large amounts into long projects. Whereas MS has always been focused on low investments and maximum profits, which is great for business but not so much for games.

 

[Mass Shift]

Yes devkits are not the kind of device you bring home. If he brought a console home it's a production device, and near final.

True, but I imagine if Scarlett was just a motherboard in a cardboard shoebox Phil would be allowed to take one home.