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[R600]

I am 100% Matt doesnt know shit, nor does Reiner.

My theory is he was feed bullshit to deflate MS E3 presentation. Yea, I know, far reaching, but it sure sounds like he is backtracking last few days. Just think about it, what was Scarlett reveal remembered for? It was remembered for head honcho from GI saying "Rumor says PS5 is more powerful then Scarlett", right after show has finished.

Why not come with that rumor week or month prior to reveal? Instead he did it at exact time it was revealed. If I was Sony this would be perfect way to announce my presence at E3. Beat MS to punch and announce PS5, cancel E3, put rumor out when Scarlett is shown and dominate headlines without ever being there.

Good jurnos coolaborate on rumor, they know when someone feeds them bullshit and they are sure of their sources. Reiner seems complete opposite, leaking rumor right at time MS conf finished. There are crazy leaks (guys who leak official documentation that they got hold onto, and solid coolaborated journalism). How not to do it? Look into "China hacking US via motherboards".

To me, most of these idiots dont know CPU from GPU, so I am not going to go by what this mythical Matt guy says one way or the other.

 

[pawel86ck]

PS3 | RSX: 176 Gflops and Cell: 230 Glops, Total 406 Gflops

360 | Xenos: 240 Gflops and CPU: 77 Gflops, Total 317 Glops

Cell 230.4 GFLOPS alone may look impressive but developers still had to use Cell for CPU specific calculations, and couldnt use all it's power on drawing graphics alone.

 

[TLZ]

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Both next-gen threads on both sites are embarrassing right now to be honest.

If anything Sony are looking quite smart in all this by simply pulling back their execs from public engagement and limiting communication in the last year or two (which they themselves have acknowledged is something they need to work on). Meanwhile Xbox have riled up their already dudebro fan base with the promise of power turning them into Days Gone zombies!

The "passion" on display is quite something to watch....

Only full reveals and seeing the games will calm things down and they will be 6-12 months away. My bunker construction is well under way....

 

[R600]

Cell 230.4 GFLOPS alone may look impressive but developers still had to use Cell for CPU specific calculations, and couldnt use all it's power on drawing graphics alone.

Cell was never used for drawing graphics, but preparing gfx tasks RSX sucked at (vertex shading, shader patching, constant pixel/vertex load balancing, post processing).

Additionaly, Cell was 25.6GFLOP SPE x 6 (1 disabled and 1 for OS), which brings us to 153GFLOPs. PPE was similar to 360 one but with missing VMX128 extension (basically flop cruncher to akin to Cell). Many people forget that that PPE was used as kind of dispatcher for Cell SPEs, as you had to load balance that async multicore monster.

So when ICE documentation says "use 20% of SPEs for triangle culling" that meana, waste 20% of SPE time for something Xenos crunches for breakfast and RSX absolutely sucks at it. So when you put these numbers in line, you understand why 360 kept up with best 3rd party efforts rather easily (GTAV, BF3) while PS3 had problems for 8 years that gen lasted.

But entire last gen was Sonys "MS power of cloud moment" damage control where they promised to dwarf 360 then got hit by reality. This is also why Sony studios where so concentrated on tech and nice graphics, that thing back in the day had to prove 360 cannot run its game, as it was getting beaten handedly in multiplats. Remember MGS4 not being able to run on 360, but run 1024x720 on PS3, just to get MGSV 5 years later and run it better then PS3?

 

[Negotiator]

Cell 230.4 GFLOPS alone may look impressive but developers still had to use Cell for CPU specific calculations, and couldnt use all it's power on drawing graphics alone.

Cell gave compute capabilities (think of CUDA) to a non-compute GeForce 7-based GPU.

Some people argue that the combination of Cell + RSX was equivalent to a GeForce 8 GPGPU.

Judging by games like Uncharted 2/3, TLOU1, GoW Ascension, Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls, I'd say that's a fair assessment.

There's no way they could port this to XBOX 360:



If someone is going to argue against Christophe Balestra, then he should read his resume first:

Uncharted 2 "impossible" on Xbox 360

Naughty Dog co-president Christophe Balestra believes the technical demands of Uncharted 2: Among Thieves make the game…

www.eurogamer.net

100% SPU utilization (around 150 Gflops for 6 SPUs). Uncharted 3 utilized the entire BD-ROM capacity (46GB) due to having 2D + 3D cutscenes.

Xenos did not support compute shaders, despite having unified shaders. It was something between DX9 and DX10.

 

[Bogroll]

PS3 | RSX: 176 Gflops and Cell: 230 Glops, Total 406 Gflops

360 | Xenos: 240 Gflops and CPU: 77 Gflops, Total 317 Glops

Like comparing AMD flops to Nvidia, doesn't give the real story

 

[R600]

Cell gave compute capabilities (think of CUDA) to a non-compute GeForce 7-based GPU.

Some people argue that the combination of Cell + RSX was equivalent to a GeForce 8 GPGPU.

Judging by games like Uncharted 2/3, TLOU1, GoW Ascension, Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls, I'd say that's a fair assessment.

There's no way they could port this to XBOX 360:



If someone is going to argue against Christophe Balestra, then he should read his resume first:

Uncharted 2 "impossible" on Xbox 360

Naughty Dog co-president Christophe Balestra believes the technical demands of Uncharted 2: Among Thieves make the game…

www.eurogamer.net

100% SPU utilization (around 150 Gflops for 6 SPUs). Uncharted 3 utilized the entire BD-ROM capacity (46GB) due to having 2D + 3D cutscenes.

Xenos did not support compute shaders, despite having unified shaders. It was something between DX9 and DX10.

There was nothing GPGPU about it. As I said, you can go by official documentation and GDC engine presentations which are much better then PR videos made by Sony. You would use 20% of SPE time for triangle culling just to ease of RSX a bit when drawing geometry. Then you would have to do post processing and shader patching, where RSX sucked as well compared to Xenos, and you would probably waste half of SPEs doing these 3 things. Where is game code, physics, ai etc going to run? You dont have 6 for graphics, you have 6 in total.

Not to derail next gen thread any further, but we had bunch of these "cant be dones" last gen. We had, as I said MGS4 which "couldnt be done on 360 and Kojima used Cell to its limit" and then we got MGSV running on 360 BETTER then PS3 in 2013.

I played through Last Of Us just last month and it is DEFINITELY not as impressive as seeing GTAV run on these consoles. Huge open world where you can swim wherever you want, drive wherever you want and fly wherever you want. Completely real time lighting with bunch of light sources anytime anywhere (deferred rendering engine), lush vegetation, big city, great animaiton etc.

GTAV was certainly, technically, a pinnacle of last gen. UC2 while beautiful does not leave me in ave anywhere close to GTAV becUse GTAV was open world monster on $300m budget, 5 years in making with less then 500MB of usable RAM while UC2 was beatifully made, heavily scripted and completely linear experience made only for 1 console.

Look at this and tell me 360 wouldnt be able to run linear, scripted games such as Heavy Rain, UC2 or MGS4 (when it ran MGSV better then PS3 lol)

 

[TeamGhobad]

no more ps3 x360 talk. its way offtopic and theoretically ps3 had more power but initially x360 games looked better. and the end of the cycle ps3 games looked better. end of discussion.

 

[Negotiator]

There was nothing GPGPU about it. As I said, you can go by official documentation and GDC engine presentations which are much better then PR videos made by Sony. You would use 20% of SPE time for triangle culling just to ease of RSX a bit when drawing geometry. Then you would have to do post processing and shader patching, where RSX sucked as well compared to Xenos, and you would probably waste half of SPEs doing these 3 things. Where is game code, physics, ai etc going to run? You dont have 6 for graphics, you have 6 in total.

Not to derail next gen thread any further, but we had bunch of these "cant be dones" last gen. We had, as I said MGS4 which "couldnt be done on 360 and Kojima used Cell to its limit" and then we got MGSV running on 360 BETTER then PS3 in 2013.

I played through Last Of Us just last month and it is DEFINITELY not as impressive as seeing GTAV run on these consoles. Huge open world where you can swim wherever you want, drive wherever you want and fly wherever you want. Completely real time lighting with bunch of light sources anytime anywhere (deferred rendering engine), lush vegetation, big city, great animaiton etc.

GTAV was certainly, technically, a pinnacle of last gen. UC2 while beautiful does not leave me in ave anywhere close to GTAV becUse GTAV was open world monster on $300m budget, 5 years in making with less then 500MB of usable RAM while UC2 was beatifully made, heavily scripted and completely linear experience made only for 1 console.

If there was nothing GPGPU-esque about it, then explain why SPU proficient coders were able to immediately tap into GPGPU compute shaders in current-gen machines, while everyone else complained endlessly about the weak CPU?

Both the PS3 and the PS4 are SIMD-heavy machines. The difference is the power balance (PS3 had the SIMD horsepower built into the CPU, while the PS4 did the opposite with the GPU).

Sony: Cell processor was ‘really tough to get to grips with’

Playstation R&D boss makes the case for using a tried and true technology at AMD's APU conference. Sony chose to license an APU from AMD based on familiar architecture rather than design a proprietary chip from

vrzone.com

“The Cell processor was the precursor to today’s accelerated processing units, very much a heterogeneous architecture” he said.“But unfortunately it was complicated to use.”

I don't know why you keep mentioning multiplatform games that always have to make concessions vs exclusive games that are built for a specific machine/architecture.

Halo 4 and Gears of War 3 are better examples if you want to showcase the XBOX 360 hardware...

And MGS4 isn't that impressive compared to Uncharted 2. AFAIK, Uncharted 2 was the first PS3 exclusive that utilized the entirety of the SPUs up to 100%.

Linear games will always be more impressive than open world ones, that's a fact. Even if ND made an open world game, it would not be as impressive as Uncharted or TLOU. You keep mentioning all the wrong examples for some weird reason. Maybe you like open world games more than linear experiences and that's fine, but it's your subjective opinion and nothing more than that.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

I am 100% Matt doesnt know shit, nor does Reiner.

My theory is he was feed bullshit to deflate MS E3 presentation. Yea, I know, far reaching, but it sure sounds like he is backtracking last few days. Just think about it, what was Scarlett reveal remembered for? It was remembered for head honcho from GI saying "Rumor says PS5 is more powerful then Scarlett", right after show has finished.


Why not come with that rumor week or month prior to reveal? Instead he did it at exact time it was revealed. If I was Sony this would be perfect way to announce my presence at E3. Beat MS to punch and announce PS5, cancel E3, put rumor out when Scarlett is shown and dominate headlines without ever being there.

Good jurnos coolaborate on rumor, they know when someone feeds them bullshit and they are sure of their sources. Reiner seems complete opposite, leaking rumor right at time MS conf finished. There are crazy leaks (guys who leak official documentation that they got hold onto, and solid coolaborated journalism). How not to do it? Look into "China hacking US via motherboards".

To me, most of these idiots dont know CPU from GPU, so I am not going to go by what this mythical Matt guy says one way or the other.

You know better than Matt or Reiner? But what about Xbone insiders who jumped IMMEDIATELLY after Cerny's interview for Wired claiming how Anaconda is more powerful. Oh, yes, that doesn't count. What a hypocrisy.

And btw. R600, Reiner said that PS5 is more poweful than next Xbox WAS before Project Scarlett announcement, not after
Do some research who and WHEN somebody said.

From digital trends :

If you know better than Reiner, you should ask devs then like he did.

 

[Fake]

Lets move on to next gen shall we? Don't make me call Matt here.

 

[Lort]

PS3 | RSX: 176 Gflops and Cell: 230 Glops, Total 406 Gflops

360 | Xenos: 240 Gflops and CPU: 77 Gflops, Total 317 Glops

Pls include edram hardware aa flops and crippling cell mem bandwidth in future.

 

[McHuj]

I am 100% Matt doesnt know shit, nor does Reiner.

I think Reiner is relaying what he heard from devs. Doesn’t mean it’s exactly true or will hold true in the future. It’s just chatter and who knows what it’s based on. It wasn’t enough to warrant an article or anything substantial from game informer. People read to much into it. I don’t think he’s lying.


Matt on the other hand always speaks in generalities like a politician. Even his “specifics” are open to interpretation. I think he’s full of shit and the mythos around his insider status puts a lot more weight on vague statements.

 

[Lort]

Cell gave compute capabilities (think of CUDA) to a non-compute GeForce 7-based GPU.

Some people argue that the combination of Cell + RSX was equivalent to a GeForce 8 GPGPU.

Judging by games like Uncharted 2/3, TLOU1, GoW Ascension, Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls, I'd say that's a fair assessment.

There's no way they could port this to XBOX 360:



If someone is going to argue against Christophe Balestra, then he should read his resume first:

Uncharted 2 "impossible" on Xbox 360

Naughty Dog co-president Christophe Balestra believes the technical demands of Uncharted 2: Among Thieves make the game…

www.eurogamer.net

100% SPU utilization (around 150 Gflops for 6 SPUs). Uncharted 3 utilized the entire BD-ROM capacity (46GB) due to having 2D + 3D cutscenes.

Xenos did not support compute shaders, despite having unified shaders. It was something between DX9 and DX10.

What are you talking about 360 gpu has memexport and used hardware gpu physics in some games since near launch.

 

[Negotiator]

What are you talking about 360 gpu has memexport and used hardware gpu physics in some games since near launch.

Show me the receipts.

XBOX 360 games used VMX128 (CPU SIMD) for tasks like physics etc.

 

[Lort]

Show me the receipts.

XBOX 360 games used VMX128 (CPU SIMD) for tasks like physics etc.

MEMEXPORT expands the graphics pipeline further forward and in a general purpose and programmable way. For instance, one example of its operation could be to tessellate an object as well as to skin it by applying a shader to a vertex buffer, writing the results to memory as another vertex buffer, then using that buffer run a tessellation render, then run another vertex shader on that for skinning. MEMEXPORT could potentially be used to provide input to the tessellation unit itself by running a shader that calculates the tessellation factor by transforming the edges to screen space and then calculates the tessellation factor on each of the edges dependant on its screen space and feeds those results into the tessellation unit, resulting in a dynamic, screen space based tessellation routine. Other examples for its use could be to provide image based operations such as compositing, animating particles, or even operations that can alternate between the CPU and graphics processor.
With the capability to fetch from anywhere in memory, perform arbitrary ALU operations and write the results back to memory, in conjunction with the raw floating point performance of the large shader ALU array, the MEMEXPORT facility does have the capability to achieve a wide range of fairly complex and general purpose operations; basically any operation that can be mapped to a wide SIMD array can be fairly efficiently achieved and in comparison to previous graphics pipelines it is achieved in fewer cycles and with lower latencies. For instance, this is probably the first time that general purpose physics calculation would be achievable, with a reasonable degree of success, on a graphics processor and is a big step towards the graphics processor becoming much more like a vector co-processor to the CPU.

Beyond3D - ATI Xenos: Xbox 360 Graphics Demystified

Beyond3D 3.0

www.beyond3d.com

 

[Negotiator]

MEMEXPORT expands the graphics pipeline further forward and in a general purpose and programmable way. For instance, one example of its operation could be to tessellate an object as well as to skin it by applying a shader to a vertex buffer, writing the results to memory as another vertex buffer, then using that buffer run a tessellation render, then run another vertex shader on that for skinning. MEMEXPORT could potentially be used to provide input to the tessellation unit itself by running a shader that calculates the tessellation factor by transforming the edges to screen space and then calculates the tessellation factor on each of the edges dependant on its screen space and feeds those results into the tessellation unit, resulting in a dynamic, screen space based tessellation routine. Other examples for its use could be to provide image based operations such as compositing, animating particles, or even operations that can alternate between the CPU and graphics processor.
With the capability to fetch from anywhere in memory, perform arbitrary ALU operations and write the results back to memory, in conjunction with the raw floating point performance of the large shader ALU array, the MEMEXPORT facility does have the capability to achieve a wide range of fairly complex and general purpose operations; basically any operation that can be mapped to a wide SIMD array can be fairly efficiently achieved and in comparison to previous graphics pipelines it is achieved in fewer cycles and with lower latencies. For instance, this is probably the first time that general purpose physics calculation would be achievable, with a reasonable degree of success, on a graphics processor and is a big step towards the graphics processor becoming much more like a vector co-processor to the CPU.

Beyond3D - ATI Xenos: Xbox 360 Graphics Demystified

Beyond3D 3.0

www.beyond3d.com

I know what MEMEXPORT is, but you didn't answer my question.

I'll try to be more specific: did BF3 use VMX128 or GPGPU for physics/destruction on 360?

If it used GPGPU, I'd like to see the receipts (a DICE presentation/screenshot or something like that).

 

[nowhat]

Guys, please: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/xbox...-measured-enough-must-continue-still.1488859/

 

[R600]

You know better than Matt or Reiner? But what about Xbone insiders who jumped IMMEDIATELLY after Cerny's interview for Wired claiming how Anaconda is more powerful. Oh, yes, that doesn't count. What a hypocrisy.

And btw. R600, Reiner said that PS5 is more poweful than next Xbox WAS before Project Scarlett announcement, not after
Do some research who and WHEN somebody said.

From digital trends :

If you know better than Reiner, you should ask devs then like he did.

Please read what I wrote again and read what Reiner wrote. He wrote "Rumors before the show say the PS5 is more powerful than Project Scarlett, but we’ll see". I dont need digitimes as 2nd source when guy literally wrote it in tweet.

My point is, he got rumor about Scarlett and posted it pretty much on time of MS E3. Now, I am not saying he is wrong, I am saying without colaborating on this info timing is incredibly important, as "PS5 is more powerful then Scarlett" flodded news and boards.

I am saying, without official docs or multiple coolaborated info, him saying this at same time MS is presenting Scarlett and Sony cancelled E3 can very likely be bad info. I read his later replies, not saying he is walking back from what he said, but he is definitely letting everyone know it was just a rumor that everyone got too crazy about it. There is a reason no body leaked anything up to this point, because you can rest assured other jurnos might have gotten this kind of info. Its very hard to track it if its not going into highly technical spheres.

Leaking PS4 docs v One docs was great leak, it showed PS4 being stronger with 100% official info. This does nothing but deflate MS hype right as they announce console and Sony is not present there.

In the end, I dont care what MS official leakers said. I dont believe anyone of them. I think only info I am sure of is the technical one - Gonzalo, PS5 dev kit QAS with die sizes and memory, and MS Scarlett memory/die size arrangement. I am not fanboy, I am saying I dont believe Reiner nor Matt (when he said his educated guess is that Scarlett will be more poweful).

 

[Gamernyc78]

Man does power matter. The way ppl act about it just solidifies it. But but its about games, yeah ok when the narrative fits you. Ppl dismissed games just on a resolution number this gen. Dont act like it didnt happen either.

Power matters? Everything matters. But boy did Crackdown 3 flop and stopped being played really fast on the most powerful system evaaaa yet new ips like Horizon, Spiderman and games like God of War on the weaker system sold each over 10 million and looked better than games on the Uber powerful X.

Your argument so frivolous and full of holes it's ridiculous if anything Sony showed this gen it truly is about games.

 

[Evilms]

PS5 vs Xbox Series X: Which should you buy?

How does Sony and Microsoft’s latest generation stack up? PS5 vs Xbox Series X explained

www.gamesradar.com

 

[Evilms]

Cell 230.4 GFLOPS alone may look impressive but developers still had to use Cell for CPU specific calculations, and couldnt use all it's power on drawing graphics alone.

The Cell processor was a real power monster for its time, the tri core of the X360 couldn't fight it.

 

[MaulerX]

I am 100% Matt doesnt know shit, nor does Reiner.

My theory is he was feed bullshit to deflate MS E3 presentation. Yea, I know, far reaching, but it sure sounds like he is backtracking last few days. Just think about it, what was Scarlett reveal remembered for? It was remembered for head honcho from GI saying "Rumor says PS5 is more powerful then Scarlett", right after show has finished.

Why not come with that rumor week or month prior to reveal? Instead he did it at exact time it was revealed. If I was Sony this would be perfect way to announce my presence at E3. Beat MS to punch and announce PS5, cancel E3, put rumor out when Scarlett is shown and dominate headlines without ever being there.

Good jurnos coolaborate on rumor, they know when someone feeds them bullshit and they are sure of their sources. Reiner seems complete opposite, leaking rumor right at time MS conf finished. There are crazy leaks (guys who leak official documentation that they got hold onto, and solid coolaborated journalism). How not to do it? Look into "China hacking US via motherboards".

To me, most of these idiots dont know CPU from GPU, so I am not going to go by what this mythical Matt guy says one way or the other.

It did somewhat cross my mind about Reiners timing. He said it himself, that he "heard" the "rumor" BEFORE E3. And yet for all, he was compelled to hold on to the rumor and share it EXACTLY after MS's conference. Not accusing him of anything but at face value, the timing of his tweet was suspect. And now he claims to have new info that he's not sharing. Weird.

 

[Bogroll]

The Cell processor was a real power monster for its time, the tri core of the X360 couldn't fight it.

Any boxer can look good in sparing but when it comes to real fighting it's a different game like how 95% of multi plats on PS3 got KOd by 360 And anyone can talk bull about 360 not being able to do PS3 exclusives but the fact is we will never know., we can only go multi plats.
Sorry to keep of topic. No more from me on this

 

[Gamernyc78]

It did somewhat cross my mind about Reiners timing. He said it himself, that he "heard" the "rumor" BEFORE E3. And yet for all, he was compelled to hold on to the rumor and share it EXACTLY after MS's conference. Not accusing him of anything but at face value, the timing of his tweet was suspect. And now he claims to have new info that he's not sharing. Weird.

That's how I feel about Matt's guesstimate as well. You hear from. Him tht sources are saying the ps5 dev kits are more powerful, complain about fanboy reactions then come back and push another narrative not based on what you heard but a guess? Looks like someone at Microsoft had a talk with him.

 

[KlickKlack]

After e3 2019 and the damage control they spun after it, I genuinely do not believe this xbox team is capable of pulling off anything that cunning. Like, Phil is still going out there to this very day 3 weeks later trying to damage control for e3. If this xbox team were with any other company, one that didnt have infinite money, they wouldve been shut down awhile ago.

As it stands i just see the cancellation of lockheart as another reinforcement that this xbox crew has no idea what theiyre doing. They seem to be throwing as much shit as possible agaisnt the wall hoping something, anything sticks.

lol... idiocy in fulfillment.

"cancellation of lockheart"
first:
source or proof that there was a lockhard console
second:
source or proof that MS has canceled it.

and boy Twitter or YouTube video from idiots or self-proclaimed insiders are not a proof.

 

[ethomaz]

It did somewhat cross my mind about Reiners timing. He said it himself, that he "heard" the "rumor" BEFORE E3. And yet for all, he was compelled to hold on to the rumor and share it EXACTLY after MS's conference. Not accusing him of anything but at face value, the timing of his tweet was suspect. And now he claims to have new info that he's not sharing. Weird.

Can it be that he wanted to talk to devs at E3 first? BTW his tweet was before MS conference, no?

 

[ethomaz]

lol... idiocy in fulfillment.

"cancellation of lockheart"
first:
source or proof that there was a lockhard console
second:
source or proof that MS has canceled it.

and boy Twitter or YouTube video from idiots or self-proclaimed insiders are not a proof.

C’mon even DF talked with devs about Lockhart and how they didn’t like it.

At this point people really believes Lockhart never existed? lol

That looks more like damage control... if it never existed in my mind then it does never existed.

 

[nowhat]

"cancellation of lockheart"
first:
source or proof that there was a lockhard console

MS E3 2018 where they talked about multiple upcoming consoles?

second:
source or proof that MS has canceled it.

Does Phil Spencer interview count?

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Please read what I wrote again and read what Reiner wrote. He wrote "Rumors before the show say the PS5 is more powerful than Project Scarlett, but we’ll see". I dont need digitimes as 2nd source when guy literally wrote it in tweet.

My point is, he got rumor about Scarlett and posted it pretty much on time of MS E3. Now, I am not saying he is wrong, I am saying without colaborating on this info timing is incredibly important, as "PS5 is more powerful then Scarlett" flodded news and boards.

I am saying, without official docs or multiple coolaborated info, him saying this at same time MS is presenting Scarlett and Sony cancelled E3 can very likely be bad info. I read his later replies, not saying he is walking back from what he said, but he is definitely letting everyone know it was just a rumor that everyone got too crazy about it. There is a reason no body leaked anything up to this point, because you can rest assured other jurnos might have gotten this kind of info. Its very hard to track it if its not going into highly technical spheres.

Leaking PS4 docs v One docs was great leak, it showed PS4 being stronger with 100% official info. This does nothing but deflate MS hype right as they announce console and Sony is not present there.

In the end, I dont care what MS official leakers said. I dont believe anyone of them. I think only info I am sure of is the technical one - Gonzalo, PS5 dev kit QAS with die sizes and memory, and MS Scarlett memory/die size arrangement. I am not fanboy, I am saying I dont believe Reiner nor Matt (when he said his educated guess is that Scarlett will be more poweful).

Reiner's tweets showed up before Scarlet announcement. That's a fact. Of course it's a rumor ( i would say it's a rumor too if i have asked the devs by myself ) because nothing is confirmed yet, it's so obvious that Reiner will say "it's a rumor". But what Reiner said it is the most reliable rumor because because he asked the devs at E3.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

R

It did somewhat cross my mind about Reiners timing. He said it himself, that he "heard" the "rumor" BEFORE E3. And yet for all, he was compelled to hold on to the rumor and share it EXACTLY after MS's conference. Not accusing him of anything but at face value, the timing of his tweet was suspect. And now he claims to have new info that he's not sharing. Weird.

Reiner tweeted rumor before Scarlet annoucemenet. You have time when tweet was published, MS E3 didn't started at exactly at 1.00 pm. It was late few minutes. Scarlett was announced during the end of Xbox E3 conference ( almost hour and a half later ). Of course he won't share new info because he was harassed by some dumb Xbone fans ( it's obvious ). Poor guy.

Xbone fans trying to spin even the time of annocements. Pathetic

 

[JLMC469]

R


Reiner tweeted rumor before Scarlet annoucemenet. You have time when tweet was published, MS E3 didn't started at exactly at 1.00 pm. It was late few minutes. Scarlett was announced during the end of Xbox E3 conference ( almost hour and a half later ). Of course he won't share new info because he was harassed by some dumb Xbone fans ( it's obvious ). Poor guy.

Xbone fans trying to spin even the time of annocements. Pathetic

A lot of people here are desperate for information and over analyze information. From both sides...

Don't judge.

 

[vpance]

That's how I feel about Matt's guesstimate as well. You hear from. Him tht sources are saying the ps5 dev kits are more powerful, complain about fanboy reactions then come back and push another narrative not based on what you heard but a guess? Looks like someone at Microsoft had a talk with him.

Penello moneyhatted.

 

[quest]

I don't know what the big deal is to admit that everything points to the PS5 being stronger by a fair margin. I have gamepass till 2022 but maybe MS is looking at under cutting on price. It be interesting if we ever find out what the specs of premium anaconda were before the shift to the cut down scarlet.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Penello moneyhatted.

Lol

 

[ethomaz]

Reiner was clear he was talking about the devkit being stronger too... it is just that devs have little hope to drastic changes to the final hardware.

 

[MaulerX]

R


Reiner tweeted rumor before Scarlet annoucemenet. You have time when tweet was published, MS E3 didn't started at exactly at 1.00 pm. It was late few minutes. Scarlett was announced during the end of Xbox E3 conference ( almost hour and a half later ). Of course he won't share new info because he was harassed by some dumb Xbone fans ( it's obvious ). Poor guy.

Xbone fans trying to spin even the time of annocements. Pathetic

Reiner's tweet was at exactly 5:28pm - And even if it was Eastern time it means his tweet came just as the Scarlett video started rolling. Somewhat suspect but that's just my opinion.

Edit: Just looked at Andrew Reiner's Twitter timeline. He was live at MS's E3 briefing when he tweeted that. In fact, he made that tweet after the Scarlett announcement. It's all in his timeline and you can see for yourself. So his timing for making that tweet is somewhat suspect. Again, IMO.

 

[R600]

R


Reiner tweeted rumor before Scarlet annoucemenet. You have time when tweet was published, MS E3 didn't started at exactly at 1.00 pm. It was late few minutes. Scarlett was announced during the end of Xbox E3 conference ( almost hour and a half later ). Of course he won't share new info because he was harassed by some dumb Xbone fans ( it's obvious ). Poor guy.

Xbone fans trying to spin even the time of annocements. Pathetic

It doesnt make it any less obvious. I already explained I didnt care which console its in question. So before the show he tweeted it, makes 0 difference. Is if true? Say it is, I dont really care. I am wondering how did this rumor come to pass only on day, hour and a half if you want, before
MS E3 conderence. Someone HAD to give him info at this time, while info was certainly available for weeks, maybe months, and from what he wrote after it doesnt seem like very colaborated rumor at all, in anything it seems opposite. You get that kind of info, you check it from other sources, "lay" on it until confirmation and then you do Kotaku with it and tell it to the world. You may run rumor twitter just before MS reveal and get people talking, but I will question legitimity of such info, nothing more nothing less.

Saying "It wasnt on Scarlett reveal, it was hour before" doesnt change anything about my theory which is, information about this came up at the time of Scarlett reveal. And after week, we are still mainly talking about rumor of power levels between one console that was announced 2.5 month ago and the one that was announcef at E3.

Pointing fingers and saying "Xbox fanboys are spinning" when I am not even an Xbox console owner is pathetic (encouraged by well known fanboys on this site, like

 

[xool]

Along with the 360/PS3 battles from 5 years ago, I'd also like it if the thread totally ignored random speculators from resetera too .. (like we've got enough here)

afaict Matt's "educated guess" is just a guess from someone who literally has no information, but want's to self aggrandized themselves. They've got a forum - it's called resetera . nothing to gain from giving them further oxygen.

Just my thoughts. Please carry on

 

[vpance]

Reiner was clear he was talking about the devkit being stronger too... it is just that devs have little hope to drastic changes to the final hardware.

If Anaconda is supposed to end up more powerful, but PS5 is definitively more powerful now, then MS must have gave out some super gimped kit/final spec, like 6TF or something. Doesn't really add up.

 

[JLMC469]

If Anaconda is supposed to end up more powerful, but PS5 is definitively more powerful now, then MS must have gave out some super gimped kit/final spec, like 6TF or something. Doesn't really add up.

All I know is, if I were to start a company and was looking for analysts; I wouldn't hire anyone is this thread .

 

[Veano95]

thank you for this goku

 

[LordOfChaos]

Last Gen PS3 & 360 OT |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Beating a 14 year dead horse Thread

 

[SonGoku]

Last Gen PS3 & 360 Power OT |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Beating a 14 year dead horse Thread

Please make the thread, I'll add to the OP

 

[LordOfChaos]

Please make the thread, I'll add to the OP

Last Gen PS3 & 360 Power OT |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Beating a 14 year dead horse Thread

You know who you are, keep it in here

www.neogaf.com

Edit: Oh shit sorry nowhat , didn't see you had the same idea lol

 

[Fake]

Pastebin redeemed.

 

[HoldTheAir]

How do these devs know that the PS5 is more powerful when Project Scarlett dev kits literally just started being shipped to developers? That's the whole issue I have with this. I feel like both consoles will be very close performance wise regardless.

 

[XcloudTimdog]

Power matters? Everything matters. But boy did Crackdown 3 flop and stopped being played really fast on the most powerful system evaaaa yet new ips like Horizon, Spiderman and games like God of War on the weaker system sold each over 10 million and looked better than games on the Uber powerful X.

Your argument so frivolous and full of holes it's ridiculous if anything Sony showed this gen it truly is about games.

Boy did Red Dead Redemption 2 show off X power. Your argument was the mainstay for 3 years and you undoubtedly subscribed to resolution war. So you can pretend you didnt switch up, or be real about it. If ps5 was more powerful than Scarlett you do flips. Enjoy Gears 5 at native 4K too, power does matter and you said it matters so thanks for making my point. Just because you are insecure about ps5 being less powerful or rumored too, doesnt mean you get all salty about it. Be consistent.

 

[XcloudTimdog]

How do these devs know that the PS5 is more powerful when Project Scarlett dev kits literally just started being shipped to developers? That's the whole issue I have with this. I feel like both consoles will be very close performance wise regardless.

As Albert said, cant go off of dev kits now. Nobody really knows but you do have Microsoft talking about power and immersive etc and sony saying nothing.