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AveragePhoenix
Member
Hundreds, on 2015, 2016 and even 2017. I wonder what part of this you won't get.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
If you tell me something you are not proving something, just show me where did you took this fact. Honestly, I'm trying to force you to post an actual proof of your own argument (instead of a vague pool) simply because I would like to close this topic without fights but with solid statements for once, and call it a day instead of going in circles.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
First you acknowledge we're talking about AAA games from the big pubs,
Then you go back to referencing all the hundreds of ports, indies and low tier trash as evidence
Make up your mind
RaySoft
Member
Why on earth would they operate in rnd speeds? That's almost entirely PC's domain. On a console you can micromanage almost everything, so rnd reads won't happen. Look at what they did on this generation of consoles, where assets where sprinkled throughout the hdd so it could easily be read regardless of where the head was at the given time. That's dedication of optimizing right there. Still people seemingly can't belive that devs still optimizes the shit out of AAA 1st party games. You can still code specific code that runs better on your target without "coding to the metal" or parallelize SPE code.Is it going to be 120%? I doubt it. Considering that both have a separate hardware for decompression, no one will be using the decompressed data. It's all going to be compressed. So the difference will be between the 4.8GB/s and the 8-9GB/s, which translates to 67% - 88% difference. Still a big difference. But, we still don't know what they are actually depicting here. It could be a lot bigger or a lot smaller... There are 4 possibilities...
1) Both the XSX and PS5 are sequential read
2) The XSX is sequential and the PS5 is random read
3) The PS5 is sequential and the XSX is random read
4) Both the XSX and PS5 are random read
Considering that even in simple tests for current PCI-E 4.0 SSDs, only sequential reads pass the 4GB/s mark, it is highly likely that the given PS5 spec is sequential read, meaning it will not be representative of actual transfer speeds. The same applies for the XSX. And more importantly, value for sequential reads is not a guarantee for high values in random reads... Use this as a reference;
Sabrent Rocket Q 1 TB M.2 NVMe SSD Review
Priced at $130 for the 1 TB version, the Sabrent Rocket Q SSD is one of the most affordable SSDs on the market. It uses a new Phison E12S controller, which has better thermal performance and can operate with smaller DRAM cache. Write speeds are impressive due to 250 GB of pseudo-SLC cache.www.techpowerup.com
And lastly, remember that we're talking about the I/O. Games will have to work with an additional SSD as well. So technically, the same I/O should be able to handle multiple storage devices, meaning, the games will never be programmed for the max I/O speed, simply because it could technically be cut in half if you have a second SSD that wants to load something at the same time.
Edit: I should add this, since most people don't know how to convert it... But, the fastest result in here, the 73788 IOPS from the ADATA SX8200 Pro, is actually just 288MB/s. Compared to the sequential read, it's literally 10 times slower. This is a worst case scenario, so we should expect at least 500 MB/s from these SSDs for games... But don't delude yourselves into thinking we'll get GB/s in real-time from the consoles.
as I've said many times now.. There are many ways from A to B. Their job is to find the most optimal one.
MS went with std. SSD & controller while Sony dug deeper and strengthened the pipe where it was needed on the cost of stuff that's less needed like rnd read probably. A std. SSD controller has to cater for every scenario (pc real world usage) but an SSD solution on a console doesn't have to be "constrained" in the same vein as PC parts. SO my guess is that the PS5's SSD would suck balls in rnd reads compared to PC or XSX even. But why would that matter if that never would be an issue?
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Metroiddarks
Member
Just play FF VII Remake and told me you really believe the level design is not attached to the old HDD is just must
than a loading screen you always believe the dev studios just will put the same games in the next generation only incrementing resolution.
Also always in the beginning is normal to see and intergen games but even then you will see some games only for new gen,
I you will believe all the companies should always release their games only for biggest part of market well we only to said to Microsoft to not
release games to only for xbox one and pc, please also for the old xbox 360 and also you know what the games in pc should run also in a old
hd graphics of intel, also please Nintendo release the new games in Wii and Sony please do the same in PS2 so in this way the market or at
least this companies has people who actually how much money each part of the market spend in the new games and not the people with
and old and weak gpu or with a old console when already exists the new model with a couple of years in the market don't spend too much
money compare to the other sector.
For the most part of the beginning only exclusive will use to close 100% of the potential the SSD of the PS5 we are in that, but in only 3 or 4 years
in pc will exists SSD fast enough to reach and overcome and those games for only PS5 and PC will use it, please don't underestimate how fast a
pc build improve with the past of the years.
And not the business in console market doesn't work as your knowledge of economic basics 1 says, this doesn't apply equals to all the market only
few games use that logic and most of them are free to play just look Riot Games. The studios are stuck in things to do, the publisher saw how some
games sales decreased because the novelty is no longer in your product and your need a refresh between other things.
I am sure people you have under 18 or something because you actually believe the games intergen is the norm for 3 of 4 years, please take your
favorite browser and see the old E3s since 2013 and check how the only new gen titles exponentially increment each year, now do the same since 2005.
I am sure I never will change you opinion so I will not give you more arguments because you actually for some reason hate a brand, I don't see any of
your post saying 'OK I am bad' or 'you had a point' or similar so is clearly you in the forum not for a debate only for show how much you hate
a brand and I am just tired to to try to remember to some people history not theories not specifications ... history and you still denied.
Also another spoiler is not only get money releasing in the biggest market you can is releasing the game for the correct part of the market
in the best way to get their attention.
Metroiddarks
Member
Yes we all agree with you and if this continue in this way the people will be more crazy and now think than maybe the virus was part of the plan
of Cerny or Phil or even both are just the same person.
Man I really want to see the new Forza Horizon
MasterCornholio
Member
"The first proper next gen console/games showcase is much earlier too."
Is he talking about Sony?
They are the only ones that haven't shown the console yet and they never planned on showing anything at E3.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
No need, drop them to $200 for PS4 Slim and $250 for PS4 Pro at the same time PS5 comes out. They will still sell good.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Well, there is that May meeting that Sony is planning, and anyway I don't see any reason to go silent much further at least about the console itself.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Could be both since Microsoft haven't shown off their next gen games yet.
Rusco Da Vino
Member
Instead of baiting this thread 24/7 with your meta PCMR crap, why you dont try to learn what is the general knowdge in this thread before posting all that nonsense that you are pushing since yesterday?
Try to educate yourself a bit more and take note from what real experts are saying about the matter:
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LordOfChaos
Member
It makes sense with past prescedent too. Some people are trying to FUD the PS5 into having an RDNA 1.0 GPU, when more than likely it's borrowing a mix of features from the near-future pipeline of AMD, same as Microsoft will be doing.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
Who is this guy?
xool
Member
MasterCornholio
Member
Sony hasn't shown anything when it comes to games while Microsoft has already shown HellBlade and Project Mara. If anything Sony has the most to reveal out of the two and I'm expecting a console reveal and a games reveal through a live event. Maybe even a pre-recorded one given the times that we are in.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Sometimes they are xbox owners buying ps4 too, or the other way around. Sometimes they are extra consoles at home, like we had around My PS4 Pro, x3 PS4, PS3, and a dust collector XB1 no one uses. Each with his own console, PS3 with LBP for the kiddos.
And those early PS5 prices, I can see them already, but people previously thought that it's natural to be sold for around $1000 from the shops here, PS1 and Atari 1600 first adopters paied $2600 for each!
Now Sony sees that most US-spec consoles are being redirected to wider markets through black market they decided to change it to a worldwide launch instead lf the strange way they did with PS4. Early US-spec PS4 coming here were between $1300-1170 before 1-Dec-2013 being released for official $470.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I know
I mean i expecting both the console and games from Sony, as well as games from Microsoft, since Ninja Theory has been the only one to show off any next-gen games. With the number of developers they have under their wing now, i'd be disappointed if we they show some of the others.
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avenovah
Member
Metroiddarks
Member
They care a lot since that affect its products, they don't make hardware but that doesn't mean they don't create software
to make the dev work easier and its games can have better graphics or solve some problems in design of the same.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Thank you Zhuge for telling gamers the most obvious thing ever about cancelled E3 2020.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Developers seem to be really damn happy with the PS5 hardware
Jason Schreier said this as well
All apis are is libraries of computer code. There is nothing special about them. They have many uses but in and of themselves they don’t speed up anything but the process of programming.
AveragePhoenix
Member
PCMR crap? Wth? Im a console and pc gamer, the fact that games are developed on PCs doesnt have anything to do with that, its just how game development works
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
He knows his stuff too. I remember his videos around the Xbox One and PS4 launches
Ascend
Member
Unless the game is a very narrow tunnel that go into in a single path in one direction, random reads are going to happen regularly. Even if you store things in a sequential manner, the chances of being able to access them in a sequential manner is really small. It's not like you can pick and choose what kind of reading you will do at any given time. The nature of games is that they are dynamic, you have freedom of interaction within the frame of the game, and that is what will produce the randomness of data access. You can't program around this, although there might be some way to slightly mitigate it.
HDDs work very differently from SSDs. The only way to increase the SSD speed to reach close to its max capacity is to basically perform sequential reads as much as possible. But that would kind of kill the exact freedom that SSDs are able to provide.
Not sure what you're getting at here, but, the SSD being slower with random reads than sequential ones is not some sort of software limit nor is it really dependent on platform.
If you had a set distance from A to B, and every meter there is an apple placed on the ground with a sequential number from 2 to 12, it will always be faster to collect all the apples in order, either from 2 to 12 or from 12 to 2, since you will be collecting them in a straight path. But even if they are placed sequentially, if you have to collect the apples in the order of dice rolls, it will always take longer, because you will have to walk a lot more by going back and forth, you will have results of apples you already collected, and it will be a lot longer before you are done. It doesn't matter if the apples are placed on concrete, grass or sand. It will always take longer.
As for the PS5 vs XSX SSD... Maybe you're a much better sprinter than I am for straight lines on a running court, but if we both need to roll the dice to collect all the apples, the difference will be quite a lot smaller.
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AveragePhoenix
Member
Yes, especially in the case of the PS3 since that was *such a joy* to develop for. But games are made for money, if they see that a console or platform doesnt have a lot of potential costumers, they will not put their games there, it's simple.
AveragePhoenix
Member
Hey, I dont want to fight either, but you go and ask *anybody*, video games, even console exclusives, are developed primarily on Pcs, thats just how game development works.
Developed on PC != for PC
AveragePhoenix
Member
My God, I'm done, I dont need to explain it to you like you're 5
AveragePhoenix
Member
When did I say that? I even said that console exclusives are made on Pc, nor *for* Pcs
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
You know we're talking about AAA games
Have you deluded yourself to thinking there were hundreds of AAA games that were released in the first few years of the PS4?
Yes or No.
The Mad Draklor
Member
He compared two GPU's of identical teraflops. If that is not clear enough to certain people, then those people are completely inattentive.
But sure, keep going with your Appeal to Consequences fallacy. Claiming that "some" people "might" get confused has absolutely no effect on the validity of Cerny clearly comparing two video cards of identical theoretical peaks.
AveragePhoenix
Member
All i'm gonna say is this. Was there a sizable amount of AAA and indie-AA games developed and released as cross-gen games? Yes, will that be the case this gen? Almost certainly yes.
I'm not sure what are you trying to achieve here then?
Stating trivial obvious things.
That's not a SSD difference.
Sequential reads is the only way to get anywhere close to peak read speed on a HDD. Or an optical drive for that matter - basically the entire history of modern consoles (the last 25 years) that's all we've been doing when optimizing for read-speeds - linearizing data access wherever possible.
You're right - SSDs 'are' different though - among other things, this is the first time where parallel data access is not only possible but actually increases throughput.
Less so on PC where I/O stack is inherently suboptimal as it's designed around mechanical drive performance, but this is exactly what the new consoles promise to address with software and hardware stack they are using.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Your side stepping is impressive. I'll give you that.
At the end of the day, doesn't change the fact that the big publishers have had no issue ditching their large install bases for their most expensive games in favour of the technology. They'll do it again this gen, which is why SSDs will be a requirement early in the generation for AAA third party games.
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Evilms
Banned
Halo’s co-creator says PS5’s SSD tech ‘will make a huge difference’ for designers | VGC
“It will open up the door for more expansive content”…
www.videogameschronicle.com
AveragePhoenix
Member
Say that toI'm not sure what are you trying to achieve here then?
Stating trivial obvious things.
VanSiriusGabriel
, he was the one arguing against that obvious fact
Nickolaidas
Member
I think that once the SeX and the PS5 are released, PC games of this generation won't be able to run on HDDs. It will be a milestone which will finally be hit. As with consoles, PC gamers will be able to store next-gen games on HDDs, but will need an SSD to play.
It has to happen. Just like HDD became mandatory for PC games to run (and people couldn't play games from CDs or discs anymore), just like Windows became mandatory for PC games to run (and couldn't run anymore in DOS mode), next-gen games will need an SSD to run. It's the only way to make video games exploit the true potential of an SSD.
It has to happen. Just like HDD became mandatory for PC games to run (and people couldn't play games from CDs or discs anymore), just like Windows became mandatory for PC games to run (and couldn't run anymore in DOS mode), next-gen games will need an SSD to run. It's the only way to make video games exploit the true potential of an SSD.
When people state obvious facts in the flame thread. That's what happens.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I wasn't arguing against in the sense "oh you're so wrong". I said I found it kind of illogical and asked an actual proof, no actual proof was given.Say that to
There are very few "obvious and trivial" things in this world, we were able to demonstrate that the Earth wasn't flat only after dozens of thousands of years, it's natural for people to question you if you pretend others to simply accept what you say, no matter how obvious could be.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
You simply didn't follow the discussion, otherwise you wouldn't asking.
AveragePhoenix
Member
Do you think EA cares more about "Technology" than money? No? How about Activision? Bethesda? Take 2? Rockstar? No, they don't, all they care about is money. Don't get me wrong, of course they will make games for next gen too, but until that install base is sizable enough, there will still be cross-gen games, just like there always are.
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AveragePhoenix
Member
I mean, if you knew about game development, you'd know that, but its okay, i dont know a lot of stuff either, and perhaps i was a bit rude, sorry.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
It is totally fine, I believe topics can get way out of hand here, it is not easy to talk with all the mess.
Metroiddarks
Member
What are you talking about ? You really think Microsoft and Sony make the new consoles without at least ask to the lead of engineers of the main studios for put an example how to improve the console ?
Looks like you are just unable to see more than one reason at a time for someone to do something or have reasoning thought. I am really tired to try to talk with you I just will ignore you.
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AveragePhoenix
Member
Yeah, I came here all light-hearted but after a few discussions i feel like chopping someone's head off >.<
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