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[Metroiddarks]

People taking that "100gb available instantly" thing from MS as gospel REALLLLY don't understand technology.

The statement at face value just makes no sense lol... we'll have to wait to see the detail of what MS is spinning there. Hopefully something cool, but there is no magic software that can make 100gb of data instantly available faster than the bandwidth of your drives.

The marketing doing his job, don't worry almost all the sites related with videogames will say XSX has access to more of 100 GB because
who care how the thing we say we love works.

That will require to investigate something who do you think they are, journalists ?

 

[MasterCornholio]

I think the whole thing was taken a bit out of context. We'll see.

Probably was just referring to the GPU having direct access to the SSD, basically making the entire installation available for direct streaming (same as it would be on PS5). We'll have to wait and see

Are you talking about no seek times? Because to me the lack of them means instant access to that data. Even though the transfer of the data is limited in most part by the SSD itself.

 

[ethomaz]

Well he was doing fanboy shit like his twitter with tim dog and dealer but now that a news got out with his name as source , it hurts his professional life to get job later in gaming industry . So he understood that and tried to take the news taken down even though he had said all those BS.

Sad really

That can explain it.

 

[pawel86ck]

But the storeroom can be half the size because you can replenish it twice as fast. Same same.

But the thing is, streaming pool hold data for the next couple of seconds. 9 GB/s SDD transfer speed is too slow for GPU with 10 TF and therefore data cant be used (and replanished) instantly. Otherwise 448 GB/s RAM would easily replanish 9 GB/s SDD transfer speed exactly like you think, BUT because there's a time delay streaming memory pool size will dictate how fast your SDD need to be. If developers will allocate just 1 GB RAM for streaming pool because that's how much data they will need for the next second of gameplay, they will only need 1 GB/s SDD in order to replanish it constantly in real time.

 

[ethomaz]

People taking that "100gb available instantly" thing from MS as gospel REALLLLY don't understand technology.

The statement at face value just makes no sense lol... we'll have to wait to see the detail of what MS is spinning there. Hopefully something cool, but there is no magic software that can make 100gb of data instantly available faster than the bandwidth of your drives.

I believe it is just having access to all data instantly.

When you ask data in a storage pool (that include memory RAM, HDD, SSD, etc) there is in a simple way two big steps involved:

1. Seek the data... basically find the data you want in the pool.
2. Fetch the data... basically transfer the data from that pool to where you want it to go.

SSDs makes the Seek for data step very close to instantaneous that most tech guys really calls it instantaneous. So the 100GB data of a game in the SSD is all available to devs instantaneously.

But the second step is still limited to the SSD speeds... in Xbox case 2.4GB/s max... so around 45s to fetch 100GB.

Are you talking about no seek times? Because to me the lack of them means instant access to that data. Even though the transfer of the data is limited in most part by the SSD itself.

That is what I thought too.
But like I said you are still limited to SSD speeds if you want to fetch (use) that data.

 

[IntentionalPun]

If all they meant were "SSDs have almost no seek time" what does that have to do with "Xbox Velocity Architecture"?

Either way my point stands; Xbox fans who don't know tech are repeating nonsense because that is not unique to the SSD on Xbox.

If it is just "SSDs have super low seek times" I'll laugh.

edit: To be clear I HOPE it's more than that.. but it reeks of PR spin and not some Xbox advantage that will make up for slower SSD.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I believe it is just having access to all data instantly.

When you ask data in a storage pool (that include memory RAM, HDD, SSD, etc) there is in a simple way two big steps involved:

1. Seek the data... basically find the data you want in the pool.
2. Fetch the data... basically transfer the data from that pool to where you want it to go.

SSDs makes the Seek for data step very close to instantaneous that most tech guys really calls it instantaneous. So the 100GB data of a game in the SSD is all available to devs instantaneously.

But the second step is still limited to the SSD speeds... in Xbox case 2.4GB/s max... so around 45s to fetch 100GB.



That is what I thought too.
But like I said you are still limited to SSD speeds if you want to fetch (use) that data.

That's why that 100GB figure confuses me. If these SSDs don't have seek times doesn't that mean that all the data will be instantly accessible instead of just 100GBs?

If anything Microsoft needs to explain their SSD tech a bit better because while with Sony it's clear it's still a bit confusing on the Series X.

 

[pasterpl]

I believe it is just having access to all data instantly.

When you ask data in a storage pool (that include memory RAM, HDD, SSD, etc) there is in a simple way two big steps involved:

1. Seek the data... basically find the data you want in the pool.
2. Fetch the data... basically transfer the data from that pool to where you want it to go.

SSDs makes the Seek for data step very close to instantaneous that most tech guys really calls it instantaneous. So the 100GB data of a game in the SSD is all available to devs instantaneously.

But the second step is still limited to the SSD speeds... in Xbox case 2.4GB/s max... so around 45s to fetch 100GB.



That is what I thought too.
But like I said you are still limited to SSD speeds if you want to fetch (use) that data.

so does it mean that same operation would take approx 22.5s on ps5?

 

[DaGwaphics]

Are you talking about no seek times? Because to me the lack of them means instant access to that data. Even though the transfer of the data is limited in most part by the SSD itself.

That probably figures into it somewhat, there are other things that come into play also. These next-gen systems feature GPUs that have direct access to the contents of the SSD, meaning in some instances data does not need to be moved from disk > ram > gpu at all, but can be accessed disk > gpu. AMD has some SSG demonstrations up, and those are only based on 1.5GB/s drives, I think the console implementation will be a bit different. If you only need 1GB/s for streaming (still a huge gain on the 20 - 40mb/s standard of current gen), you may not need an allowance in RAM for the steaming pool at all (I think you'd still want that for the most part, since most assets will be used across multiple frames). PS5 could be twice as effective in this area, the question becomes how much do devs need and what will be the realistic limits of the dev budget in $$$ and human work hours.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That probably figures into it somewhat, there are other things that come into play also. These next-gen systems feature GPUs that have direct access to the contents of the SSD, meaning in some instances data does not need to be moved from disk > ram > gpu at all, but can be accessed disk > gpu. AMD has some SSG demonstrations up, and those are only based on 1.5GB/s drives, I think the console implementation will be a bit different. If you only need 1GB/s for streaming (still a huge gain on the 20 - 40mb/s standard of current gen), you may not need an allowance in RAM for the steaming pool at all. PS5 could be twice as effective in this area, the question becomes how much do devs need and what will be the realistic limits of the dev budget in $$$ and human work hours.

Hmm so I guess that means the PS5s GPU has direct access to the SSD as well. I didn't know the GPU write capable of that. I always thought they would need to pull the data out of the ram instead of the SSD.

With that said the speed of the velocity architecture is limited by the SSD itself. The PS5s SSD is faster by default so I don't see how the velocity architecture gives the Series X an edge over it.

 

[ethomaz]

so does it mean that same operation would take approx 22.5s on ps5?

To be exact.

Xbox: 41.6s
PS5: 18.2s

 

[DaGwaphics]

Hmm so I guess that means the PS5s GPU has direct access to the SSD as well. I didn't know the GPU write capable of that. I always thought they would need to pull the data out of the ram instead of the SSD.

With that said the speed of the velocity architecture is limited by the SSD itself. The PS5s SSD is faster by default so I don't see how the velocity architecture gives the Series X an edge over it.

I don't think that MS has ever stated that their storage architecture gives an edge over a faster SSD. Sony fans like to equate the XSX SSD to a mechanical HDD, basically. The reality is that both will use variations of the same techniques to do roughly the same thing, the PS5 just has more capability in that area.

 

[jackets with pockets]

 

[PocoJoe]

I don't think that MS has ever stated that their storage architecture gives an edge over a faster SSD. Sony fans like to equate the XSX SSD to a mechanical HDD, basically. The reality is that both will use variations of the same techniques to do roughly the same thing, the PS5 just has more capability in that area.

You surely have evidence that "sony fans equate xsex ssd -> hdd"?

Not once I have seen anybody claiming that even remotely, you sure you aint trolling?

What people say is that PS5 have more bandwith than Xsex SSd, while both being super fast vs current gen.

And then comes the insecure xbot army talking trash about ps5 and spamming some Phil Dispenser marketing bullshit to make both ssd techs equal because they must see xsex "better" in every way I guess

 

[Vaztu]

Just a fanart render or ... ?

 

[SonGoku]

So that was the short lesson on caches... Going back to the XSX RAM... If they let it work like cache, then everything is allocated to the 10GB first as data is accessed. When there's a data lookup, it will always look in the 10GB first. So, that means the 1GB ram chips and the first 'tier' of the 2GB chips will have priority.

Something like this will allow to get use of the advertised 560GB/s but with the downside of limiting total ram available to 10GB (VRAM & CPU), accessing the low priority 6GB cache will always incur a performance hit.

The other way (which Lady Gaia suggested) sounds more plausible and aligns with MS recommendation (10GB GPU-3.5GB CPU). It will essentially switch CPU & GPU access on a cycle by cycle basis. For an average of 48GB/s of CPU access the GPU would be left with 480GB/s which is pretty good.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I don't think that MS has ever stated that their storage architecture gives an edge over a faster SSD. Sony fans like to equate the XSX SSD to a mechanical HDD, basically. The reality is that both will use variations of the same techniques to do roughly the same thing, the PS5 just has more capability in that area.

Oh jeez who would ever say the Xboxs SSD is like a HDD?

Just looking at the RAW speed the PS5s SSD is over twice as fast. But what will that mean when we play the games?

That's what's left to find out.

Edit: What I have seen is people claim that the PS5s SSD is a generation ahead of the Xbox Series Xs. I don't believe they myself but it's pretty obvious that Sony did alot more R@D on their drive than Microsoft did.

 

[SonGoku]

The worst thing about the game is being 1st PV, would've loved to be 3rd PV.

First person cutscenes announcement triggered me, wish they at least kept cutscenes in 3rd person

Just a fanart render or ... ?

Yep, no reason to think gamesradar would be privy to design photos

 

[DaGwaphics]

Oh jeez who would ever say the Xboxs SSD is like a HDD?

Just looking at the RAW speed the PS5s SSD is over twice as fast. But what will that mean when we okay the games?

That's what's left to find out.

Beware of Youtube comments....

Time will tell what the end results are all around. These consoles should bring a lot of these techniques to PC as well as time goes on. I can see devs getting more and more creative. An APU with some additional cache reserved for SSD access could make some magic happen.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Beware of Youtube comments....

Time will tell what the end results are all around. These consoles should bring a lot of these techniques to PC as well as time goes on. I can see devs getting more and more creative. An APU with some additional cache reserved for SSD access could make some magic happen.

Are you talking about those dumb rumors about the PS5 suffering from massive heating problems and RROD?

That's why I don't pay attention to YouTube comments.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Are you talking about those dumb rumors about the PS5 suffering from massive heating problems and RROD?

That's why I don't pay attention to YouTube comments.

LOL Yes, that's where I see the XSX drive basically the same as last gen comments.

 

[MasterCornholio]

LOL Yes, that's where I see the XSX drive basically the same as last gen comments.

Just be happy that Microsoft didn't go with a HDD. That would have been a disaster.

LOL

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Fomo states that both the PS5 and the XSX are confirmed to support VRR (Variable Refresh Rate) but that only the XSX supports LFC (Low Frequency Compensation).

 

[DeeDogg_]

The first three sentences are commonly used in 'leaks'..

Omg I’m famous

 

[SonGoku]

Is it possible all 16GBs of PS5 RAM is available for developers?

You need some for vital OS functions 15.5GB at best

Does Sony have enough time to add more VRAM to the PS5's design before manufacturing begins?

No but they could upgrade to 16Gbps chips for 512GB/s bandwidth. "Could" but not likely

 

[3liteDragon]

I am glad to hear that. But i must Say, this game does not look like a NexT gen game for me.

One of the developers did say during an interview that the footage they put out was "pre pre pre alpha" footage running on PC, so I would probably wait until they're ready to show off actual gameplay captured directly from PS5.

 

[3liteDragon]

Ryan apparently thinks Microsoft has the golden opportunity to undercut the PlayStation 5 on price with the Series X and capture some of that market share.

 

[ethomaz]

No but they could upgrade to 16Gbps chips for 512GB/s bandwidth. "Could" but not likely

I'm 100% sure Sony tested faster GDDR6 modules but what they choose is the best compromisses cost vs gain in performance.
What I mean is the gains in performance with a faster GDDR6 were not that impressive to convince them to pay more for it.

Said that I believe Sony will only change the modules for one faster if the prices of these faster modules decreases a lot in the next few month and with coronavirus that will hardly happen.

 

[Vae_Victis]

Just a fanart render or ... ?

Seriously though, does any of the people who followed more closely all the mock-ups done in the past months recognize this from anywhere? It would be really weird for them to just use fan-art to advertise a serious industry event with the participation of publishers and manufacturers.

If this is really a PS5, how the hell could they get to publish this footage before anyone else? I wouldn't be surprised if the trailer mysteriously disappeared in the next hours and then re-appeared with some slight alterations in the footage used...

 

[SonGoku]

PC is problematic indeed. You can cut last gen console support with a rubber stamp. But those pesky pc’s will be kicking around with their slow assed hdd’s and ssd’d for the foreseeable future. Sure you can dramatically revise minimum requirements on Pc, but that’s like hitting the reset button on a billion users - not sure how feasible without a prolonged uptake period.

Billions of pc users aren't the target audience for AAA studios, consoles are the primary audience.
A SSD upgrade will be cheaper than a GPU upgrade, a 1TB 2.4GB/s SSD costs $120 and $56 for the 256GB version that's less than a full priced game! no excuses really. Coupled with 16-24GB DDR4 should be enough to match XSX

 

[IntentionalPun]

I think with SSD diff we'll see:

1) Some games tuned to run off old HDDs and not really much changes on the SSD consoles. We'll have similar benefits as throwing an SSD in a PS4 today has, depends on the game, and we should see that benefit ~doubled on PS5.

2) Some games tuned for the XSX SSD speed, but not really modified for PS5. On PS5 we should see roughly half the initial load time, but no other real changes other than less or no pop-in, IF there is any pop-in to begin with on XSX.

3) Some games have variable streaming systems that can be tuned for SSD speed. Should see LESS THAN half the load time on PS5, as tuning for it means you can load less data up front at a faster speed.

4) Some games might increase detail on PS5, making load times similar but the game prettier than XSX Although this one is really tricky, as increasing detail means increasing the details that need to be cached, at some point you hit a wall where the detail overcomes the speed / size of RAM.

I think #4 is a pipe dream outside of exclusives but maybe late gen tooling will help but at some point you become limited by the size of the game and just the feasibility of generating that many detailed assets, #1/2 is what we'll see particularly early in the gen, and #3 will become more and more common as tools / techniques / engines mature.

#3 might be more common than I'm guessing though right away as I imagine at least some games/engines/tools are already able to do those kind of tweaks easily since asset streaming has been the norm for like a decade now.

 

[spons]

Seriously though, does any of the people who followed more closely all the mock-ups done in the past months recognize this from anywhere? It would be really weird for them to just use fan-art to advertise a serious industry event with the participation of publishers and manufacturers.

If this is really a PS5, how the hell could they get to publish this footage before anyone else? I wouldn't be surprised if the trailer mysteriously disappeared in the next hours and then re-appeared with some slight alterations in the footage used...

I reversed-image searched that render and it doesn't come up with something. This is either fan art designed by them or a real PS5. Real or fake, they fucked up.

 

[Sinthor]

Casuals can flush themselves. This is MY hobby. I bet they didn't even get all Sekiro endings. I HATE them. Fifa Madden Hello Kitty Fortnite ass cunts influencing budget allocations I'm sick of it I'm sick of it

But please tell us how you really feel... Are you sick of it?

 

[Gediminas]

Ryan apparently thinks Microsoft has the golden opportunity to undercut the PlayStation 5 on price with the Series X and capture some of that market share.

m$ biggest fanboy thinks that m$ has an opportunity to undercut PS5 what a surprise? i guess?

 

[TLZ]

the XSX supports LFC

XSX a Liverpool supporter? I'm out!

 

[TLZ]

Casuals can flush themselves. This is MY hobby. I bet they didn't even get all Sekiro endings. I HATE them. Fifa Madden Hello Kitty Fortnite ass cunts influencing budget allocations I'm sick of it I'm sick of it

It's meant to be a fun hobby man. Nothing serious.

 

[Sinthor]

In general I'm not much into FPS but it feels like fake VR and doesn't connect me to the main character and most of the time the protagonist is quite forgettable. Just remember Vaas in Far Cry 3 was way, way more superior compared to the protagonist, same goes to the Jackal in FC2 (my best sequel and the most serious and respectful one), Pagan Min in FC4, The Father in FC5. Overall, customization is laughable to say the least for FPS.

It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's mostly preference. Probably that's why PS exclusives are the best games to me.



Yeah, I would see it being a much better game to me at least as TPS, that's why I'm not too hyped about it. I can see it being a very insanely good game anyway.



Well, I'm sorry to say it but personally every time I see Skyrim gameplay I feel like I'm gonna vomit. The engine itself is so outdated and is in my unwanted list. It can turn around that and be on top, like The Witcher 3 as 2 and 1 feel like indie games despite having great story.



Yeah, it's great as well to let our fellow flat-earthers to think about it. Problem is, we need to deal with those guys first:

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

Eh, just send those folks spinning by telling them "Sure, sure, the moon is flat. But it doesn't matter because quantum theory proves that it ONLY EXISTS WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT anyway!" See what they do THEN!

 

[MasterCornholio]

Seriously though, does any of the people who followed more closely all the mock-ups done in the past months recognize this from anywhere? It would be really weird for them to just use fan-art to advertise a serious industry event with the participation of publishers and manufacturers.

If this is really a PS5, how the hell could they get to publish this footage before anyone else? I wouldn't be surprised if the trailer mysteriously disappeared in the next hours and then re-appeared with some slight alterations in the footage used...

If it is real it looks like they are not going with a tower design.

 

[FranXico]

No but they could upgrade to 16Gbps chips for 512GB/s bandwidth. "Could" but not likely

The console was designed on a budget. They even shaved off as much as they could on SSD storage space.

 

[CrysisFreak]

It's meant to be a fun hobby man. Nothing serious.

It's not just a hobby, it's a lifestyle. True gamers will understand and one day we will rise up. Gangweed represent.
Fuck you Veronica.
Srs though I don't mind casuals they can play their FIFA and Clash of Clans lol as long as fromsoft and SIE keep it up.

 

[Physiognomonics]

You need some for vital OS functions 15.5GB at best

No but they could upgrade to 16Gbps chips for 512GB/s bandwidth. "Could" but not likely

Probably too expensive. I think the bandwidth could be a problem for multiplat in some games (and in this case, it would probably be also a problem on XSX), but it won't be too much of a problem for their first party games as memory access is something that usually can be optimized. We have seen this on most Sony games on Pro. They usually have no problems outputting >2x more pixel than PS4, usually with better perf.

 

[jackets with pockets]

Just a fanart render or ... ?

Those white shapes on the right could be letters and the upper one could be L and the lower D. I'm guessing

Let's Go
DIGITAL

EDIT: Nope. It reads PS5.

 

[B_Boss]

That's why that 100GB figure confuses me. If these SSDs don't have seek times doesn't that mean that all the data will be instantly accessible instead of just 100GBs?

If anything Microsoft needs to explain their SSD tech a bit better because while with Sony it's clear it's still a bit confusing on the Series X.

MS needs to do a GDC “Deep Dive” presentation as well. They produced a pretty cool product video as the Series X’s reveal video but I haven’t seen a presentation on the Series X very similar to Sony’s GDC video. It would be a good time since they’ve already revealed their console in a great way.

 

[DrKeo]

With regards to ROPs, the reason I asked is because I've seen comments made by some, that the XSX has 80 + ROPs, and I'm curious as to why that would be.

All I can think is they are going off Big Navi, which I assume has a higher ROP count, and they think the XSX has a lighter version of Big Navi.

Well, Github was spot on up until now regarding chip layout so I would assume 64 ROPs for both.

Does Sony have enough time to add more VRAM to the PS5's design before manufacturing begins?

only if they use a partial or full clamshell setup which is extremely unlikely.

People taking that "100gb available instantly" thing from MS as gospel REALLLLY don't understand technology.

The statement at face value just makes no sense lol... we'll have to wait to see the detail of what MS is spinning there. Hopefully something cool, but there is no magic software that can make 100gb of data instantly available faster than the bandwidth of your drives.

I did some research to try and understand that claim better but it doesn't make any sense to me.

Hmm so I guess that means the PS5s GPU has direct access to the SSD as well. I didn't know the GPU write capable of that. I always thought they would need to pull the data out of the ram instead of the SSD.

With that said the speed of the velocity architecture is limited by the SSD itself. The PS5s SSD is faster by default so I don't see how the velocity architecture gives the Series X an edge over it.

What MS means is that 100GB of data can be requested on demand by the GPU and it will stream so fast into the RAM that it could be used in the next frame. The data is paged, so the GPU can pull extremely fine data out of that pool. For instance, textures are divided into pages, like a jigsaw puzzle, so the GPU can actually pull just a few pieces from the top left of a texture instead of the whole texture from the SSD.

 

[SonGoku]

But the thing is, streaming pool hold data for the next couple of seconds. 9 GB/s SDD transfer speed is too slow for GPU with 10 TF and therefore data cant be used (and replanished) instantly. Otherwise 448 GB/s RAM would easily replanish 9 GB/s SDD transfer speed exactly like you think, BUT because there's a time delay streaming memory pool size will dictate how fast your SDD need to be. If developers will allocate just 1 GB RAM for streaming pool because that's how much data they will need for the next second of gameplay, they will only need 1 GB/s SDD in order to replanish it constantly in real time.

The idea behind it is RAM only needs to cache data for the next 1 second of gameplay, thats the buffer for data that needs instant access while they replenish it with SDD.
That way most of data in RAM is active used for what's currently being rendered

The PS5s SSD is faster by default so I don't see how the velocity architecture gives the Series X an edge over it.

It doesn't plain and simple

 

[SirTerry-T]

It appears that the two-tone themed color scheme Sony is going for in the PlayStation 5 era may have been in front of our faces for a long time with these limited UK cases of PlayStation exclusives, released last year?:

Spoiler: two-tone ps4 exclusive game cases released only in the UK in fall of 2019

If the PS5 console design, the PS5 first-party game cases feature the two-tone design like those cases and the dual sense, I will be a very happy man
Thoughts? It's beautiful to me

Nah, I think Sony were just trying to ape the bold, stark illustration style artists such as Olly Moss were doing with their successful film posters over at Mondo.

 

[Vaztu]

The console was designed on a budget. They even shaved off as much as they could on SSD storage space.

What is the next logical SSD storage space option for Sony ? 825GB to 1650 GB ? Is there another step in between ?

 

[Vae_Victis]

I reversed-image searched that render and it doesn't come up with something. This is either fan art designed by them or a real PS5. Real or fake, they fucked up.

OK, found it, it's a fan design:

I couldn't trace the original video where it's taken from, but this picture here in particular is dating back to at least early February: https://www.gamesradar.com/this-ps5-controller-mock-up-has-every-feature-you-could-ask-for/

 

[Goncas2]

Seriously though, does any of the people who followed more closely all the mock-ups done in the past months recognize this from anywhere? It would be really weird for them to just use fan-art to advertise a serious industry event with the participation of publishers and manufacturers.

If this is really a PS5, how the hell could they get to publish this footage before anyone else? I wouldn't be surprised if the trailer mysteriously disappeared in the next hours and then re-appeared with some slight alterations in the footage used...

It's a mock-up.

 

[pasterpl]

MS needs to do a GDC “Deep Dive” presentation as well. They produced a pretty cool product video as the Series X’s reveal video but I haven’t seen a presentation on the Series X very similar to Sony’s GDC video. It would be a good time since they’ve already revealed their console in a great way.

these presentations are detailed showcases for devs, we, peasants, should stick to pr talk