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[sircaw]

The weird thing is, Microsoft have done everything right in the past. The 360 launch and its first few years were brilliantly handled. It’s baffling that they haven’t just rinsed and repeated. They had the methodology right, but for some reason they’ve spent the last decade permanently getting in the way of themselves.

Sometimes i feel like Microsoft treat gaming as a bit of a side project, they have their fingers in so many pies and they are very successful in most of them. But in gaming i feel like they are lost, just throwing cash around.

I remember that advert for Sprite the drink, its slogan was " Image is nothing, obey your thirst"

I feel like Image is everything to Microsoft. No matter what happens we need to have the world's most powerful console. The thirst is the afterthought.

Remember when single-player games were not important. Then they were.

Let's go out and buy 15 game studio's, we need to do something.

Everything they do, seems rash to me, Sony just keep plugging along, quiet as a mouse. confident.

 

[FeiRR]

You have a point. But it becomes easier to sell the console when you can advertise it comes with Cyberpunk for free (with the inevitable 1-3 months of free GP), even though you’re not getting the copy. I’m saying that just trying to guess what they’ll do not to be massacrated on the Holiday season.

That's also a fair point. If that happens, I might even get a month of GP just to check if I really like CP before I buy it on PS5. My PC might choke on it but for one Euro, no problem.

 

[CrysisFreak]

"I think hardware ray tracing in Xbox Series X and S is so good most games that have support in engine for ray tracing will just enable it just to save power from typical rasterising treatment of light/shadows. And most games will use Unreal Engine and others with ray tracing support.

So, difference in performance will be like 12 + 13TF and maybe 97TF for machine learning in Int 4 math (I'm not sure if that come from Tensor like processors or the 12TF general shader as MisterC believes). All this against a machine with something like 8-9TF sustained performance. It will be a massacre."

oh my gosh that's brutal

 

[Vaztu]

Manage to snag it from the cache.

He mentions 10ms base cost as basic expense: polygon and material costs. So, material costs include transportation(latency) costs too.

Is he basing this off PS4 data ? Won't this change for PS5 because of IO improvements (decreases material costs) and higher CUs (decreases polygon, due to parallel processing).

Of course this doesnt change that 30FPS will always have room for prettier effects compared to 60FPS until graphics hit a ceiling.

 

[CrysisFreak]

He mentions 10ms base cost as basic expense: polygon and material costs. So, material costs include transportation(latency) costs too.

Is he basing this off PS4 data ? Won't this change for PS5 because of IO improvements (decreases material costs) and higher CUs (decreases polygon, due to parallel processing).

Of course this doesnt change that 30FPS will always have room for prettier effects compared to 60FPS until graphics hit a ceiling.

This general idea that 30fps is a necessity to have good graphics is still not true.
Doom Eternal, Modern Warfare and Gears 5 show that you can have both a proper framerate and good graphics and that's with shitty Jaguar CPUs.
Next-gen consoles have enough power to give us both a jump in framerate and graphics except if devs insist on wasting it all on just graphics, in which case they hopefully get outsold by 60fps games.

 

[Shmunter]

This general idea that 30fps is a necessity to have good graphics is still not true.
Doom Eternal, Modern Warfare and Gears 5 show that you can have both a proper framerate and good graphics and that's with shitty Jaguar CPUs.
Next-gen consoles have enough power to give us both a jump in framerate and graphics except if devs insist on wasting it all on just graphics, in which case they hopefully get outsold by 60fps games.

Yep, devs need to put away their 30fps mediocrity and step the fuck up to 60. We all know a 60fps game could look better at 30, but framerate must become the primary focus and work from there.

 

[saintjules]

 

[T-Cake]

This general idea that 30fps is a necessity to have good graphics is still not true.
Doom Eternal, Modern Warfare and Gears 5 show that you can have both a proper framerate and good graphics and that's with shitty Jaguar CPUs.

I thought Gears 5 was amazing. I haven't played TLoU, Part II so Gears 5 is the best looking game I've seen yet.

 

[Thirty7ven]

The weird thing is, Microsoft have done everything right in the past. The 360 launch and its first few years were brilliantly handled. It’s baffling that they haven’t just rinsed and repeated. They had the methodology right, but for some reason they’ve spent the last decade permanently getting in the way of themselves.

What was that? And how is it different from what they did with the X1? Put pre launch aside.

 

[McHuj]

WTF? Complete nonsense.

 

[Ellery]

This general idea that 30fps is a necessity to have good graphics is still not true.
Doom Eternal, Modern Warfare and Gears 5 show that you can have both a proper framerate and good graphics and that's with shitty Jaguar CPUs.
Next-gen consoles have enough power to give us both a jump in framerate and graphics except if devs insist on wasting it all on just graphics, in which case they hopefully get outsold by 60fps games.

Yep, devs need to put away their 30fps mediocrity and step the fuck up to 60. We all know a 60fps game could look better at 30, but framerate must become the primary focus and work from there.

Would you two say that 60fps is a necessity for you to enjoy games?

 

[DaGwaphics]

WTF? Complete nonsense.

IKR, I can see a lot of benefits to the distraction offered by the new machines. I might not run out for one myself, but many would and they will love them. And even those that don't will watch the comparisons and reviews that can only be made with retail units (away from the pressures associated with early access situations).

 

[GreyHand23]

WTF? Complete nonsense.

He needs to step away from social media. It doesn't matter when the consoles release, the business models of every console maker rely on competition. Social media just allows the wars between fanboys to be more pervasive.

 

[FunkMiller]

What was that? And how is it different from what they did with the X1? Put pre launch aside.

Strong exclusive launch line up / clear, unambiguous messaging / emphasis on providing the best gaming experience.

 

[sircaw]

Yer way to go John.
The year has already been a total shitfest, i know whats a good idea, lets delay consoles another year on top of the total disaster this year has already been..

One of the few things a lot of people have been looking forward to, lets take that way too.

Normally like your stuff John, but that's an arsehole comment.

If you are feeling stressed get the fuck of twitter, you TWIT.

 

[Empire Strikes Back]

"I think hardware ray tracing in Xbox Series X and S is so good most games that have support in engine for ray tracing will just enable it just to save power from typical rasterising treatment of light/shadows. And most games will use Unreal Engine and others with ray tracing support.

So, difference in performance will be like 12 + 13TF and maybe 97TF for machine learning in Int 4 math (I'm not sure if that come from Tensor like processors or the 12TF general shader as MisterC believes). All this against a machine with something like 8-9TF sustained performance. It will be a massacre."

oh my gosh that's brutal

Where’s this from?

 

[ksdixon]

What a cuck.
Everyone else can release games, and even if they HAVE a small delay (TLOU2 & GOT) they were never in as bad a shape as Halo Infinite looked to be. I can accept a small game delay if the games look and play like "that", the way TLOU2/GOT do. Those small pushbacks are indicative of the unexpected hiccup covid presented.

I mean... What have the Halo team been doing for the past 5 years?

 

[FunkMiller]

Sometimes i feel like Microsoft treat gaming as a bit of a side project, they have their fingers in so many pies and they are very successful in most of them. But in gaming i feel like they are lost, just throwing cash around.

I remember that advert for Sprite the drink, its slogan was " Image is nothing, obey your thirst"

I feel like Image is everything to Microsoft. No matter what happens we need to have the world's most powerful console. The thirst is the afterthought.

Remember when single-player games were not important. Then they were.

Let's go out and buy 15 game studio's, we need to do something.

Everything they do, seems rash to me, Sony just keep plugging along, quiet as a mouse. confident.

Agreed. Microsoft’s approach to XBox is similar to Amazon’s approach to Amazon Prime Video, and that mobile phone they tried to launch - they are side projects in a much larger corporation, and therefore proper focus is lacking. Video gaming seems much more part of Sony’s dna. Same goes (even more so in fact) for Nintendo.

Best thing for Xbox would be for it to be an independent company, I think. Run by people more invested in gaming.

 

[FunkMiller]

One wonders if he’d be saying the same thing if Microsoft were on top of their game right now.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Agreed. Microsoft’s approach to XBox is similar to Amazon’s approach to Amazon Prime Video, and that mobile phone they tried to launch - they are side projects in a much larger corporation, and therefore proper focus is lacking. Video gaming seems much more part of Sony’s dna. Same goes (even more so in fact) for Nintendo.

Best thing for Xbox would be for it to be an independent company, I think. Run by people more invested in gaming.

I don't think that it's possible to make Xbox an independent company, since Xbox's very identity is tied to Microsoft's DirectX API; Xbox is short for DirectX Box.

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

What is so different between PS5 and XSX architecture? I thought they have almost the same GPU/CPU but XSX have higher clocks and just more CU's on GPU. Are there any significant architectural differences between CPU's (both are 'custom' ZEN 2) and both GPU's are RDNA 2.

The entire I/O system and the way it communicates with the CPU/GPU/SSD, the PS5 is on a whole other level!

 

[BlueXImpulse]

John is just being dramatic.

I say release PS5 but delay XsX.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

Delay why? Because your paycheck. Xbox is in a shit place. You was all good talking up next gen doing videos up till now. But now after Halo news. Lets delay everything huh. Sounds suspect. Where was that delay talk throughout the year?? All this capping for xbox. A trillion dollar company is pathetic.

No its convenient to delay.Where was that delay talk throughout the year?? This Xbox cappin is crazy.

 

[FunkMiller]

I don't think that it's possible to make Xbox an independent company, since Xbox's very identity is tied to Microsoft's DirectX API; Xbox is short for DirectX Box.

Well, yes. It was a hypothetical, rather than anything I think would actually happen. Maybe the best to hope for would be more distance from the mothership, so to speak.

 

[beck_]

I need a PS5 asap, the biggest thing for me is (almost) no loading times. I need that in my life now! Do not delay!

 

[Shmunter]

Would you two say that 60fps is a necessity for you to enjoy games?

No, enjoy plenty of 30fps. But would prefer if they were 60.

 

[Entroyp]

Is he getting piled on for his comments about Halo? Sorry bud but that is part of your job. You were right about that so stand firm and take it.

No need to delay the PS5 though, Sony seems to be ready for next gen.

 

[JonnyMP3]

Maybe that's a stupid question, but does that mean the GPU really only has to calculate what is necessary, because what is not needed is sorted out beforehand?

Would that mean the PS5 GPU needs fewer TFlops to compute the same as a GPU with more TFlops?

Zaitsu already answered but I didn't want to seem ignorant lol.

My poor brain.

Back to Fraggle rock for me.

Did I do that 'sound smart' thing again?

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Well, yes. It was a hypothetical, rather than anything I think would actually happen. Maybe the best to hope for would be more distance from the mothership, so to speak.

Is it already an LLC? If so, maybe it can become one and therefore be more independent from Microsoft but still owned by Microsoft.

 

[CrysisFreak]

What's wrong with him?
I can't wait for PS5 and it's going to be great. I don't want to experience load times anymore and it's time to say bye bye to them.
Don't be such a pussy and celebrate gaming, which is actually stronger than ever because of corona lmao.
Jeez.

 

[sircaw]

I can hear thunder on the horizon, GIVE IT TO ME, OH LORD, you have answered my prayers.

Rain, Rain, Rain glorious rain.

Or for you AeneaGames that's mud glorious mud its a song about a Hippopotamus singing.

 

[Handy Fake]

I can hear thunder on the horizon, GIVE IT TO ME, OH LORD, you have answered my prayers.

Rain, Rain, Rain glorious rain.

Or for you AeneaGames that's mud glorious mud its a song about a Hippopotamus singing.

Still waiting for the bastard here in the NE.
We only have a fine mist.

 

[sircaw]

Zaitsu already answered but I didn't want to seem ignorant lol.


Did I do that 'sound smart' thing again?

MELTED.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Good lord we're in 2020 and people still don't know how to deal with the internet

 

[sircaw]

Still waiting for the bastard here in the NE.
We only have a fine mist.

It's coming, with Raytracing, it will be glorious.

SUMMER BE GONE, BIACH

 

[FunkMiller]

Is it already an LLC? If so, maybe it can become one and therefore be more independent from Microsoft but still owned by Microsoft.

Fairly sure it’s not, though not 100% sure, so happy to be corrected.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Yeah, I'm sure if it wasn't for Corona, every PS and Xbox fan would be hugging each other right now.

What horseshit.

 

[FunkMiller]

Good lord we're in 2020 and people still don't know how to deal with the internet

Possibly when your livelihood depends on fostering and maintaining a strong social media presence, it’s hard to get away from the toxicity. Problem is, you can’t court social media attention one moment to benefit your clicks and subscriptions, and then moan about it in the next breath.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Fairly sure it’s not, though not 100% sure, so happy to be corrected.

Well, as an LLC, it would be more independent than it is as an outright division of Microsoft, assuming that it's a division and not already an LLC or other type of subsidiary.

 

[CrysisFreak]

Noooooo you can't release PS5 you need to cry because of Corona!!!
We need to stop living and cuck ourselves to atone for our sins!
No more fun, you can play your GameBoy for an hour per day thank me later.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Hahaha what the fuck is he talking about? Is he drunk out of his mind? I have a love-hate relationship with twitter. On one hand, every cretin feels the need to voice xir (;d) opinion there because apparently it matters, and on the other hand, sometimes you get to read these retarded beyond belief hot takes from people that make your day from laughing.

 

[CrysisFreak]

Hahaha what the fuck is he talking about? Is he drunk out of his mind? I have a love-hate relationship with twitter. On one hand, every cretin feels the need to voice xir (;d) opinion there because apparently it matters, and on the other hand, sometimes you get to read these retarded beyond belief hot takes from people that make your day from laughing.

The Virgin "pls no console release this is not the right time"
vs
The Chad "haha DualSense go brrrrr"

 

[JonnyMP3]

MELTED.

Sowwie! I'll take you to the waterfalls.
But yeah I have a love of 'Engineering' and how things work. ☺
But I'm sure plenty of gaffers are plenty more intelligent than I am.
I just try to have a good grasp of the fundamentals and physics.
Especially physics!

 

[Rudius]

The PS5 is worth it in 2020 even if just to play PS4 games at 60 fps and no loading. Current gen games still look good, but these consoles are slow as shit, to the point of diminishing the enjoyment.

 

[Darklor01]

Hahaha what the fuck is he talking about? Is he drunk out of his mind? I have a love-hate relationship with twitter. On one hand, every cretin feels the need to voice xir (;d) opinion there because apparently it matters, and on the other hand, sometimes you get to read these retarded beyond belief hot takes from people that make your day from laughing.

Honestly, I don't envy him, or anyone who's work is tied to these next gen console launches. It has to be really stressful. Thanks to how these launches are being handled on both sides, the gaming community in general has become incredibly toxic. Everything is a negative, taken personally, and a fun war has become a war in general.

His work can't be any fun right now. The content they have to cover is limited in scope, and anything they put out basically likely starts more fires in the community. I can't imagine being stuck in the middle of that. It has to be affecting them on a personal level to a pretty high degree. They're whole day is related to dealing with this crap, and creating content which is being drip fed to them, let alone, trying to deal with the backlash of whatever is put out.

Some of that backlash is earned, .. some is a product of everything going on in general.

 

[Crazychipmunx]

 

[Three Jackdaws]

So that bellend who was sharing the information about RE8 struggling to run on PS5 with 4K has also tweeted that he's been hearing from other developers that the PS5 is struggling to run other games on 4K as well. He's also stated that Series X will have no problem with 4K and that it will be cheaper than the PS5 and this was told to him as well. I don't want to share his tweets because I don't want to give him that attention.

Honestly, you could not make up more FUD if you tried lol and I'm referring to the latter part, I find it interesting how literally no one else has leaked the same information, well anyone with at least an ounce of reliability. In fact all we've heard from developers, including third party devs is how easy it to develop games on the PS5, although I would say that porting games from one platform to another is an entirely different matter which could be a possible explanation for the RE8 on PS5 rumours.

Also I'm not buying into the Series X undercutting PS5 by a "significant" amount, if that was the actual case then Lockhart would not have existed.

 

[GreyHand23]

At initial glance I wasn't too impressed, but going and looking at it in its full quality, wow! This game is going to be a looker and I'm excited.

 

[sircaw]

A thing of Beauty

 

[Dr.D00p]

Hahaha what the fuck is he talking about? Is he drunk out of his mind?

Whilst its none of our business, I think its pretty obvious JL has suffered/does suffer from unspecified mental health issues...