FranXico
Member
Welcome.
Just use common sense, be civil and you'll be fine.
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Just use common sense, be civil and you'll be fine.
Haxxor777
Neo Member
Thanks! Ok, gotcha.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Welcome such a better place here then other sites as individual thoughts are welcome here.
vpance
Member
Right, you wouldn't need a lot. A smaller amount of ReRAM would still be insanely useful. But having more would probably make it easier to have multiple games installed or suspended at once so you could instantly switch between them at any time. At least that's what I think it'd likely be used for.
Cant know price of SOC if we do not have yields + die size.Estimation/speculation for the bill of materials for PS5, taken from Reddit:
Any thoughts?
I assume less then that. If Sony had to get BD out and put 325mm² die for PS4 Pro to hit 400$, then I guess for similar die size on 7nm it would be around 120-130$ with licencing.
TLZ
Banned
Don't worry. This isn't spastic, trigger-happy-era.
SmokSmog
Member
At this moment TSMC yields = 0.09 defect per cm2
TSMC 7nm defect density confirmed at 0.09
\
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Haxxor777
Neo Member
I'm curious if peolple remember a real early leak on reddit I think, which pretty much got the XSX specs correct (if we go buy other leaks we have now from different sources and some of MS's latest tidbits) which are basically a Zen2 8C16T CPU, 12TF NAVI based GPU, 16GB GDDR6 and 1TB NVMe SSD. And obviously now we know it's all true or at least real close to what we'll get. Beyond that it also had the Lockhart and PS5 specs and pricing as well and that's what got me really thinking about this leak now. Pics related btw, the OP was deleted but there screens floating around.
So when it comes to PS5 he also mentioned in the OP that PS5 was originally planned for a 2019 release, but was later delayed to 2020, possible reason being the back compat: that they couldn't get it properly running PS4 games. Further more if we look at the specs and the pricing, 8TF NAVI, 12GB RAM, SSD at $399, doesn't sound too far fetched, does it? To me at least, Sony knows that a 399 price tag is the sweet spot for them, so yea, I would assume they were at least considering this machine, if not still, coz obviously in the time span of a year lots of things could be changed, especially now that we have some target specs for XSX. Another thing is something i remembered lately: Cerny himself once told (at PS4 PRO announcement IIRC), that getting games run at true 4K requires a 8Tflop GPU, also suggesting this leak may not be too far from reality. Then we also have some of the latest leaks having PS5 at 13.3TF which's roughly what you get when converting RDNA to GCN arch. So, that's interesting.
K I think that's all I wanted to say. What are your thoughts? Do you think that's total bollocks, I'm reading into things too much?
Either way, next gen is going to be real fun. The reveals can't come soon enough!
So when it comes to PS5 he also mentioned in the OP that PS5 was originally planned for a 2019 release, but was later delayed to 2020, possible reason being the back compat: that they couldn't get it properly running PS4 games. Further more if we look at the specs and the pricing, 8TF NAVI, 12GB RAM, SSD at $399, doesn't sound too far fetched, does it? To me at least, Sony knows that a 399 price tag is the sweet spot for them, so yea, I would assume they were at least considering this machine, if not still, coz obviously in the time span of a year lots of things could be changed, especially now that we have some target specs for XSX. Another thing is something i remembered lately: Cerny himself once told (at PS4 PRO announcement IIRC), that getting games run at true 4K requires a 8Tflop GPU, also suggesting this leak may not be too far from reality. Then we also have some of the latest leaks having PS5 at 13.3TF which's roughly what you get when converting RDNA to GCN arch. So, that's interesting.
K I think that's all I wanted to say. What are your thoughts? Do you think that's total bollocks, I'm reading into things too much?
Either way, next gen is going to be real fun. The reveals can't come soon enough!
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Haxxor777
Neo Member
Great to hear. Thanks!
Haxxor777
Neo Member
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I would say the likely 2 SKU Xbox approach suggests more than anything that the PlayStation lands somewhere between them in performance and price. Otherwise I don’t think the 2 SKU Xbox makes much sense. Sony have the momentum advantage and if they are both similar hardware, MS would be better doing one model and just try and undercut them by 50 bucks or so. Or also maybe ditch Xbox Live Gold too now they have a growing Gamepass sub.
But who fucking knows!
But who fucking knows!
Whats the waffer price for 7nm? We can then make comparison to 16 and 28nm ones last gen.400mm2 7nm TSMC 70% yields, almost 100 full functional 400mm2 dies per wafer.
I've been watching a lot of RTX On / Off comparison videos. It just is not worth the halving of the framerate.
As one of the funny comments I read explained it amusingly.
RTX On = "The janitor has been in and mopped the floor today"
The lighting is so good even with RTX Off in COD MW, you can barely tell.
As one of the funny comments I read explained it amusingly.
RTX On = "The janitor has been in and mopped the floor today"
The lighting is so good even with RTX Off in COD MW, you can barely tell.
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Disco_
Member
SSD speeds that up quite a bit.Those copying times after a download are sometimes borderline maddening
Wondering if PS5 is still running orbisOS or based on freeBSD? That's the reason why we update/copy the way we do now. If not, the way updates happen will be quite different.
SmokSmog
Member
Probably around 7.5k- 10k at worst cant find reliable info about 7nm TSMC
That means 75-100$ for 400mm2 APU
Zen 2 die 74-80mm2 cost around 13-15$
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Fake
Member
FTFY
Rightisright
Banned
Yeah that leak came out in like April or something. Was pretty much on the money, so you would expect if they were so right with the Xbox stuff the PS 5 info could well be on the money. I remember when both Scorpio and Pro got leaked at the same time and were 100% correct.
Here are the pics, sorry couldn't upload properly lul.
But of course Sony could have upped the specs by increasing clocks without re-engineering the APU. I cant see Sony allowing MS to have a 4tflop advantage going into next gen.
Rightisright
Banned
Yeah that other joint is a bit, well.....
Haxxor777
Neo Member
It came out in January or February I believe. I think the specs could be somewhat tweaked even this far into building the APU, but not drastically obviously. So it will be really interesting to see how next gen unfolds, considering MS top box is most likely 100$ more while being ~50% more powerful. We'll see.
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TeamGhobad
Banned
Both devkits are in the wild, last gen we got full specs a year before launch so i expect the same thing this time around. specs are pretty much final at this point. i expect full reveal very soon.
Haxxor777
Neo Member
Is it? Generally speaking. Or are you referring to my post specifically? Haha, I'm just trying to connect some dots, and get some opinions. That's it.
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Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
“I did QA testing for RDR 2 and GTA 6, the latter starting preproduction in 2014 I believe. I was using a PS5 devkit. The game entered large scale development sometime around late 2016 during the timeframe Rockstar began marketing Red Dead Redemption 2.”
demigod
Member
Let them dream.
SmokSmog
Member
Neofire
Member
Sony being caught with a console that under powered would be their undoing.
Mass Shift
Member
It's getting crazy in here. 14TFs, HBM2, ReRam. Then there's 8TFs, weaker RT, $499. We only seem to exist in extremes.
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Dargor
Member
Thats why you gotta love a new console gen, the convo gets out of hand at the drop of a hat
though thats also the reason why you gotta hate it too....funny that 
KURDISTAN YPG
Member
FELLAS
psvR
ps5
Weaker?
impossible!
psvR
ps5
Weaker?
impossible!
The higher end ones are Hope's and wishes. There is a chance of course but it be remote chance to get a console with trifecta you listed. One would be amazing in a 499.99 console. It's more fun while we wait since we know the exotics are now off the table with the x series. The low end I say is baiting and trolling honestly trying to land a big one. Still can't find any source i deem legitimate say the x series is more powerful. It be nice honestly just to keep some mystery to it instead of the inevitable like project scorpio when that magnificent beast leaked.
Estimation/speculation for the bill of materials for PS5, taken from Reddit:
Any thoughts?
Not taking into account cooling a 300 or more watt console. Its using the same cooling cost of the PS4. This will cost more to cool that huge hot apu and exhaust it especially if they keep a traditional form factor. Using the same optical cost one is regular other is a 4k drive. The cost difference was enough to get Sony to skip it in the pro. I think these things will be 575-625 plus shipping and retail cut. The higher end is if Sony does reram and hbm2.
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megreotsugua
Banned
This and some of the early "leaks" were suggesting a tiered SSD + HDD solution.
Moreover, the Remedy dev statement definitely support the cache solution approach.
If this is true then Sony only has 3 realistic option because a memory used as cache has to have good write endurance.
1. SLC Nand - But this thing is not that much faster than a TLC Nand at 1TB. If it's not that much faster, then 1TB of TLC Nand will suffice and make better sense.
2. 3DXpoint PCM by Intel - This is a good SSD for caching. But it is exclusive to Intel CPUs. I doubt that they're using this.
3. ReRAM by Sony
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megreotsugua
Banned
I feel like you're not aware of the video with the Sony engineer detailing their ReRAM technology in the Persistent Memory Summit.
megreotsugua
Banned
But Sony has its own that they will commercialize to offer a "second source" against Optane in 2020. That's it more probably, don't you think?
Just because Sony has their own ReRAM solution doesn't mean they wouldn't use someone else's product in their console.
Sony have their own image sensors but they still use OmniVision sensors for the PlayStation Cameras
megreotsugua
Banned
Sure. Any news on the density and specs that Crossbar is planning to ship in 2020 though? So we can have an idea.
We have an idea about Sony though. 128gb and 256gb in 2020. And as far as I'm aware Sony is the only one touting a more than 100gb of ReRAM since 2017. I don't know about other companies.
megreotsugua
Banned
8GB chip is 64gbit. So yes I think only Sony so far has 128gbit chip. An SSD set-up can of course be composed of more than 8 chips. But yes it's an speculation on top of speculation.
megreotsugua
Banned
Sony has a roadmap for ReRAM. It can give Nand Flash a run for its money in the future. Nand stop scaling at 15nm while ReRAM can scale further down. So the notion that ReRAM will replace Nand Flash in the future is not too far fetched.
TheTechnician
Banned
hey there -iam a fresh Member of the Neogaf Community. Mostly intrested in Console Tech and i was lurking a looong time before finaly making the subscription a couple days ago.
with that being said - Nvidia had this Panel at the GDC China where we saw their CEO anouncing their new slick MaxQ Gaming Laptop Products. Here is the timestamp i talk about.
It is shown on the big screen:
RTX 2080 (powered)
>Next Gen Console
So my Question would be:
is this basicly a confirmation about next gen being weaker than RTX2080 ? with Nvidias connections within the industry they could probably obtain informations about Next Gen Dev Kits. Or the other Way around - if they dare to show this on a big screen - must they not be pretty shure about that?
The WindowsCentral Piece about Next Gen Xbox did point out 12TF RDNA wich would be faster than a ordinary RTX 2080. It would be on par with RTX 2080 Super i guess. Also Richard Leadbetter in his Piece did assume a 12TF RDNA.
Jason Schreier in his Podcast mentioned Next Gen would be on par with RTX 2080.. So with all that Rumors - What should we think about that Claim from Nvidia. Would they claim such a thing even if they are not shure about it , or straight out lieing about it?
What you guys think.
With all those rumors about NExt Gen being similar powerfull as a RTX 2080 i would be uncomfortable about a Next Gen being weaker than a MaxQ laptop...
with that being said - Nvidia had this Panel at the GDC China where we saw their CEO anouncing their new slick MaxQ Gaming Laptop Products. Here is the timestamp i talk about.
It is shown on the big screen:
RTX 2080 (powered)
>Next Gen Console
So my Question would be:
is this basicly a confirmation about next gen being weaker than RTX2080 ? with Nvidias connections within the industry they could probably obtain informations about Next Gen Dev Kits. Or the other Way around - if they dare to show this on a big screen - must they not be pretty shure about that?
The WindowsCentral Piece about Next Gen Xbox did point out 12TF RDNA wich would be faster than a ordinary RTX 2080. It would be on par with RTX 2080 Super i guess. Also Richard Leadbetter in his Piece did assume a 12TF RDNA.
Jason Schreier in his Podcast mentioned Next Gen would be on par with RTX 2080.. So with all that Rumors - What should we think about that Claim from Nvidia. Would they claim such a thing even if they are not shure about it , or straight out lieing about it?
What you guys think.
With all those rumors about NExt Gen being similar powerfull as a RTX 2080 i would be uncomfortable about a Next Gen being weaker than a MaxQ laptop...
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TLZ
Banned
I think that's what's going to happen.
megreotsugua
Banned
saintjules
Member
Definitely plausible. Question for Sony is if they will do a Pro right at launch together with the base PS5. The rumor from September seems to make sense.
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
TLZ
Banned
If you look at it this way: We have 3 different PS4 SKUs in the market now; PS4 500gb, 1TB and Pro 1TB. And they all selling nicely without confusion. All for their target audience. So this can work at the beginning of next gen.
If that happens, I do hope the base console is no less than 12tf. But what do I know. The switch is half a tf and still manages to get current gen games heavily downgraded. Maybe the same can be done on nextgen 4-6tf machines?
vivftp
Member
I'd love to see a PS5 Portable built on 3 nm tech and AMD's mobile Navi in 2022 or so.
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