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[yewles1]

I just realized something... With Epic demonstrating ripping film assets from Quixel and Z-Brush proving how good content can look on early PS5 hardware, can you imagine how Sony 1st parties can do even better on final devkits... WITH ATOM VIEW??? *faints*

 

[DaGwaphics]

So let me get this straight, you are saying that once we see this demo running on PC or XSX, it will look worse, right? This is a demo tailored 100% around the PS5, an Unreal demo, the most multi platform engine ever?

This is a partnership with Sony, just like the elemental demo. Call it whatever you like, it doesn’t mean Sony has paid them litterly, partnership can mean a lot of things. Why do you think everyone at Epic avoided talking about the XSX yesterday as if it’s Voldemort?

I guess we will have to make a mental note of this and get back to it once we see the demo running on something else in order to compare or at least see some multi platform games. running on both.

The fact that Sony strictly prohibited performance comparisons is telling, we'll have to see what other demos look like.

I'm not sure what the hubbub is about regarding MS's response to the demo. Obviously they support UE, and UE5 supports their box. I guess in the minds of some anything other than complete radio silence is some kind of knee jerk reaction. The fact that there is something PS5 related out there is a good thing, now there is something to compare and contrast against. The one thing we all love about Sony is their inevitable predictability.

 

[DrKeo]

When the hell did she become a meme?

 

[Thirty7ven]

I asked it in the other thread but to those who are taking the stance that this is Sony sponsored and therefore irrelevant, I must ask then what about the Minecraft Path Tracing Demo? Does your logic apply the same there? The Ps5 would run that demo just as good as the XSX?

 

[DrKeo]

The fact that Sony strictly prohibited performance comparisons is telling, we'll have to see what other demos look like.

I'm not sure what the hubbub is about regarding MS's response to the demo. Obviously they support UE, and UE5 supports their box. I guess in the minds of some anything other than complete radio silence is some kind of knee jerk reaction. The fact that there is something PS5 related out there is a good thing, now there is something to compare and contrast against. The one thing we all love about Sony is their inevitable predictability.

People lost their minds over a logo and controller reveal, so what did you expect to happen once something that really looks like next gen is showed on PS5? People aren’t thinking straight out if excitement, they are forgetinf it’s a middleware built to run in PC and XSX, it’s not GOW2.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

I'm getting ready for random Friday ahead. Gonna be good!
What about you?

You my get to go primordial source on random Tuesdays hype... of course im in!

 

[Handy Fake]

I asked it in the other thread but to those who are taking the stance that this is Sony sponsored and therefore irrelevant, I must ask then what about the Minecraft Path Tracing Demo? Does your logic apply the same there? The Ps5 would run that demo just as good as the XSX?

The way it came across was that with Cerny basing the PS5 around the SSD, Epic partnered with them to bring the most out of the streaming tech.
Nothing more.

 

[DrKeo]

I asked it in the other thread but to those who are taking the stance that this is Sony sponsored and therefore irrelevant, I must ask then what about the Minecraft Path Tracing Demo? Does your logic apply the same there? The Ps5 would run that demo just as good as the XSX?

Probably the same only a few pixel less I assume because of the memory bandwidth and general RT capabilities which scales 1:1 with TF.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

When the hell did she become a meme?

Sorry mate, don't even know who she is

 

[Thirty7ven]

Probably the same only a few pixel less I assume because of the memory bandwidth and general RT capabilities which scales 1:1 with TF.

So it wouldn't perform the same. XSX would perform better, either by throwing higher res or higher framerate.

The way it came across was that with Cerny basing the PS5 around the SSD, Epic partnered with them to bring the most out of the streaming tech.
Nothing more.

I agree.

 

[DrKeo]

Sorry mate, don't even know who she is

Some Israeli model, Eden Fines. NVM

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

The reason is the close partnership between Epic and Sony.

That same close partnership likely resulted in Epic pushing Sony to deliver the kind of next-next-gen IO needed to leverage Nanite to the extent we saw it. To imply Epic chose to demo this particular sequence on PS5 because they're merely friends is naive.

Epic need Unreal engine to be selected for development on all platforms. Even older mobiles. To favour one vendor for no reason other than some kind of weird friendship or politics would be to shoot themselves in the foot.

Sweeny was clear that what we saw yesterday was only possible due to Sony's insane IO, of which Sweeny doubtless had input as Cerny was doing his rounds in the lead up to PS5 architecture. A standard NVMe SSD wasn't enough for Sony's vision. Neither was a high end one. Neither is one that even exists yet. Neither was the NVMe architecture with two levels of priority. Neither was an 8 or even 10 channel NAND interface which the most expensive NVMes tend to have. Neither was just putting in this NVMe without spending considerable cost and effort on various bits of hardware IO accelerators and an entirely new storage API paradigm.

If Sony is slightly down on GPU (down on outright compute, up on other areas of GPU like rasterisation, slightly down all weighed in), they're another generation ahead on getting data from flash chip to live and working GPU cache as quickly as possible, and that's down to far more than just the raw sequential read speed over 4 lanes of PCIe4.0.

The Unreal 5 technology demo we saw was only running at ~1440P@30Hz. It wasn't a demonstration of pixel pushing and high resolutions. It was a demonstration of IO, and it looked next generation.

 

[DrKeo]

So it wouldn't perform the same. XSX would perform better, either by throwing higher res or higher framerate.



I agree.

It will perform more or less the same, a few pixel less, after all it’s not the same machine. Same goes for the UE5 demo, it will probably run exactly the same only a few pixels more on the XSX because of the GPU and memory bandwidth and maybe a few models will take a fraction of a second to stream more polygons on the XSX during the fly-though scene. Nothing really visible to the layman.

 

[Radical_3d]

Another lost soul has just found the light.

I encourage terrorflops truthers to watch this part of the video. (timestamped)

This is a good example of why messaging is very important. This guy will not buy a PS5. He stops right before the “PS only” part begins. But he apparently has no tech background and for him that’s a PS5 and the PC gaming show of Monday is a SX. Of course we are 6 months away from launch and he’ll se soon enough that a SX can do those visuals and more. But every misstep in messaging may cost costumers. Specially in MS where brand attachment is not so strong.

It will perform more or less the same, a few pixel less, after all it’s not the same machine. Same goes for the UE5 demo, it will probably run exactly the same only a few pixels more on the XSX because of the GPU and memory bandwidth and maybe a few models will take a fraction of a second to stream more polygons on the XSX during the fly-though scene. Nothing really visible to the layman.

You know what I find interesting about all this RT stuff? In the DF about that ninjas demo Alex and John both said that RT is very RAM hungry. And I was like… ehhh… then what on Earth are MS and Sony thinking about with 16GB? I guided their RT possibilities are so weak they didn’t even bother on feeding those RT cores.

 

[Thirty7ven]

It will perform more or less the same, a few pixel less, after all it’s not the same machine. Same goes for the UE5 demo, it will probably run exactly the same only a few pixels more on the XSX because of the GPU and memory bandwidth.

Oh so there's nothing in the U5 demo that takes advantage of PS5 advantages? Interesting.

 

[Gamernyc78]

People lost their minds over a logo and controller reveal, so what did you expect to happen once something that really looks like next gen is showed on PS5? People aren’t thinking straight out if excitement, they are forgetinf it’s a middleware built to run in PC and XSX, it’s not GOW2.

Again your not readiing comments and/or are purposely acting oblivious to ppls angle just to push a narrative. Everyone here knows it's Middleware and would be used on others consoles. The excitement is in the ssd being used and ppl knowing ps5 has the upper hand by a wide margin in tht respect and thus believing this demo would still look better on PS5 due to its stronger capability in tht regard.

But hey keep being oblivious or edgy and fantasize tht ppl are saying UE5 is Sony exclusive lol

 

[DrKeo]

Oh so there's nothing in the U5 demo that takes advantage of PS5 advantages? Interesting.

You’ve quoted me before I edited my post. On XSX during the fly-through some models might need a fraction of a second to load more polygons.

As I’ve already said, both sides differences will be practically invisible.

 

[Corndog]

It'll not be possible on XSX nor PC, according to the CEO of Epic Games. Let's not assume beyond what the CEO of the company owning UE said.

He didn’t say that.

 

[Thirty7ven]

As I’ve already said, both sides differences will be practically invisible.

I 100% agree. Diminishing returns have been increasing hard, and they're only being doubled down hard with next gen consoles being so close.

 

[Corndog]

Again your not readiing comments and/or are purposely acting oblivious to ppls angle just to push a narrative. Everyone here knows it's Middleware and would be used on others consoles. The excitement is in the ssd being used and ppl knowing ps5 has the upper hand by a wide margin in tht respect and thus believing this demo would still look better on PS5 due to its stronger capability in tht regard.

But hey keep being oblivious or edgy and fantasize tht ppl are saying UE5 is Sony exclusive lol

People need to quite fantasizing if they do not want another ps5 13 TF situation like we had before ps5 talk.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

Wait, so this is the actual quote

Dont forget to include this part

"IGN asked what advancements are in the PS5 that allows for Unreal Engine 5 to function at this high of a level on the console."

1. Correct, read here:

“It’s also a lot of polygons being loaded every frame as you walk around through the environment and this sort of detail you don’t see in the world would absolutely not be possible at any scale without these breakthroughs that Sony’s made.”

2. Nobody claims that UE5 is exclusive for PS5.

While Epic wouldn’t comment on any potential performance differences between the PS5 and Xbox Series X, Sweeney confirmed that the features shown today, like real-time global illumination and virtualized geometry, are “going to work on all the next-generation consoles.”

3. Even Phil Spencer "confirmed" that the Series X will use UE5, using a capture rendered on PS5 hardware!

Source:

PS5 SSD Is 'Far Ahead' of High-End PCs, Epic Games CEO Says - IGN

The PlayStation 5 breakthroughs on SSD and storage are ahead of any PC alternatives.

www.ign.com

 

[Faithless83]

“[The PS5] puts a vast amount of flash memory very, very close to the processor,” says Sweeney. “So much that it really fundamentally changes the trade-offs that games can make and stream in. And that’s absolutely critical to this kind of demo,” Sweeney explained.
“This is not just a whole lot of polygons and memory. It’s also a lot of polygons being loaded every frame as you walk around through the environment and this sort of detail you don’t see in the world would absolutely not be possible at any scale without these breakthroughs that Sony’s made.”
https://www.ign.com/articles/ps5-ssd-breakthrough-beats-high-end-pc?sf122295089=1

Is it that hard to grasp the concept of "it was achieved due to the PS5 architecture and may not run/look like this in other plataforms"?

Geez guys, it's not rocket science.

 

[Faithless83]

Also to the doomsday guys and the "people will lose jobs" parade, it also means less development time and less cost.
This could lead us to devs willing to take risks and do something diferent.
Indies having more resources to do what they want. A resurgence of AA games.
Imagine VR with this?
Next gen will be bonkers!

 

[Dabaus]

No matter how you look at it, the fact that Epic presented their new engine on PS5 was not lost as a message sent to Microsoft. Yes, they can try to rebound from it any way they see fit from "but this is going to run on Xbox as well" to "it will look way better on the world's most powerful console"... but it's just damage control at this point, even if the above mentioned 'reasons' are real.

I don't expect any kind of emotional intelligence from "the place that will not be named" or the likes of Timdog and Co. but looking at Spencer and Greenberg's reaction I just realized they're in almost the same spot as their... admirers. If they are so adamant about their box, this kind of knee jerk reaction shouldn't even take place; aside from rabid fan boys (on both sides) mostly everyone knows that yes, it will look and run the same for Xbox, in some instances a bit better, in other cases a bit worse, but nothing world-changing.

But looking at these people with their positions well established in Microsoft hierarchy and their reactions makes me a bit apprehensive about their PR capabilities, and it's sad. The level they're at, we shouldn't even have this kind of behavior, but apparently Twitter dumbs everyone down. Common denominator works best, I guess?

Ive been going down the rabbit hole of xbox fandom yesterday and this morning and its a bizarre place for sure. With the exception a few state of plays and discounting Nintendo...Xbox has essentially been operating in a vacuum since 2018. Microsoft has put out countless puff pieces about how streaming is the immediate future, xbox is set to dominate next gen because reasons, etc. and it seems their fandom have bought it hook, line, and sinker. What im trying to say is that these past 2-3 years of sony basically not saying much has conditioned them to assume or believe that thats just the new normal. According to them Sonys success this generation was a mistake or an accident and now Phil, who theyve made out to be this infallible figure who truly has his finger on the pulse of true gamers and is on the cusp of bringing the golden age, is here to put sony in their place. Nothing could be further from the truth but the fandom truly believes this.

Ive seen where xbox fans have said that if Unreal 5 can look that good on "8-9" teraflop console despite the ps5 actually being 10.3, it will look miles better on the XSX. That github leak, incomplete as it was, really did a number on these people. Once sonys marketing gets going in full swing for the PS5 I dont think some of these people are going to be able to handle it. IDK what sony actually has in store, maybe theyll blow it, but if a tech demo running on the PS5 is enough to make some these guys worry like this, then it shows how fragile the illusion is of an xbox come back is. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Mod of War]

Majlis Al Jinn, Oman. It means Demon/Jinn Council Not my photo (there is a man standing under the sun ray)

Looks in-game.

 

[icerock]

If Sony is slightly down on GPU (down on outright compute, up on other areas of GPU like rasterisation, slightly down all weighed in), they're another generation ahead on getting data from flash chip to live and working GPU cache as quickly as possible, and that's down to far more than just the raw sequential read speed over 4 lanes of PCIe4.0.

The Unreal 5 technology demo we saw was only running at ~1440P@30Hz. It wasn't a demonstration of pixel pushing and high resolutions. It was a demonstration of IO, and it looked next generation.

As Nvidia once said, "Memory is expensive", but "Communication is prohibitively expensive"

I was looking at the Ampere leaks and one thing immediately struck me, why is memory so low on these cards? It ties into the above quote. I feel we are moving towards a future where games will be designed to take advantages of streaming capabilities of fast SSDs and so will GPU manufacturers when they are designing these cards, VRAM isn't the be all end all as it once was.

I would've still preferred if Sony stuck with under-clocked 18Gbps modules though, RT hogs bandwidth like no tomorrow and I don't see it becoming very efficient any time soon.

Ive been going down the rabbit hole of xbox fandom yesterday and this morning and its a bizarre place for sure. With the exception a few state of plays and discounting Nintendo...Xbox has essentially been operating in a vacuum since 2018. Microsoft has put out countless puff pieces about how streaming is the immediate future, xbox is set to dominate next gen because reasons, etc. and it seems their fandom have bought it hook, line, and sinker. What im trying to say is that these past 2-3 years of sony basically not saying much has conditioned them to assume or believe that thats just the new normal. According to them Sonys success this generation was a mistake or an accident and now Phil, who theyve made out to be this infallible figure who truly has his finger on the pulse of true gamers and is on the cusp of bringing the golden age, is here to put sony in their place. Nothing could be further from the truth but the fandom truly believes this.

Ive seen where xbox fans have said that if Unreal 5 can look that good on "8-9" teraflop console despite the ps5 actually being 10.3, it will look miles better on the XSX. That github leak, incomplete as it was, really did a number on these people. Once sonys marketing gets going in full swing for the PS5 I dont think some of these people are going to be able to handle it. IDK what sony actually has in store, maybe theyll blow it, but if a tech demo running on the PS5 is enough to make some these guys worry like this, then it shows how fragile the illusion is of an xbox come back is. Just my 2 cents.

Xbox Era thread wasn't very pretty to go through so I can only imagine what the rest of Internet must've been like. After State of Play today, Sony are basically through with their PS4 output so their marketing for PS5 should pick up. They haven't announced any new FP game since 2017 so I imagine they plenty to say whenever their big reveal is. Meanwhile, July event for Xbox is already starting to being built as ultimate litmus test where they have to come firing on all cylinders. You look at the projects their studios have been working on, and how little time they have had, and I hope the expectations don't spiral out of control. There was an Xbox insider who was trying to throw caution by pointing out how the UE5 demo is setting 'unrealistic expectations' for early next-gen games so who knows.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

The fact that Sony strictly prohibited performance comparisons is telling, we'll have to see what other demos look like.

We dont know that. We know windows central retracted their tweet, and put a disclaimer on the article that it would probably look better on xbox, when the tweet almost implied it was certain.( though who knows if the article will be edited)

 

[IntentionalPun]

Dont forget to include this part

"IGN asked what advancements are in the PS5 that allows for Unreal Engine 5 to function at this high of a level on the console."

1. Correct, read here:


2. Nobody claims that UE5 is exclusive for PS5.


3. Even Phil Spencer "confirmed" that the Series X will use UE5, using a capture rendered on PS5 hardware!

Source:

PS5 SSD Is 'Far Ahead' of High-End PCs, Epic Games CEO Says - IGN

The PlayStation 5 breakthroughs on SSD and storage are ahead of any PC alternatives.

www.ign.com

LOL Spencer linked to an article, Twitter ads the image caption.

And Sweeney contradicted the hell out of everything else they said about the demo.. which was that it could run on phones or last gen hardware.

So how is it only possible at "any scale" on PS5?

I'm not saying there wasn't something only on PS5-ish about the demo; but how many GB/S did it require and at what part? What would have to scale down to fit on a normal NVME bandwidth wise? And is that kind of data even realistic for a full game?

Shit is exciting as hell as is the PS5 SSD; but we need to see some actual real games running to really know the difference. With the ability to push insane amounts of data around you can create demos that aren't necessarily a realistic example of what a game could actually do.

 

[M-V2]

You'll wrong, this is the ultimate experience

 

[Ascend]

That same close partnership likely resulted in Epic pushing Sony to deliver the kind of next-next-gen IO needed to leverage Nanite to the extent we saw it. To imply Epic chose to demo this particular sequence on PS5 because they're merely friends is naive.

Epic need Unreal engine to be selected for development on all platforms. Even older mobiles. To favour one vendor for no reason other than some kind of weird friendship or politics would be to shoot themselves in the foot.

It's about money, obviously... And why do you think PS exclusives are starting to pop up on the Epic Game Store?
Whether Epic pushed Sony to deliver this I/O is possible, but is still speculation. The fact is that they are partnered up, and both are working together to make money. Obviously, they are going to talk each other up.

Sweeny was clear that what we saw yesterday was only possible due to Sony's insane IO, of which Sweeny doubtless had input as Cerny was doing his rounds in the lead up to PS5 architecture.

You might be sure, but I'm not. He did mention that the PS5 has a God tier SSD. But he also mentioned that the demo can run with an RTX 2070 and an SSD. Don't let PR talk fool you.
It's kind of funny though, that you mention favoring one vendor would be to shoot themselves in the foot, and yet you claim that Sweeny specifically pushed Cerny to make this decision, but somehow did not do the same with Phil Spencer.

A standard NVMe SSD wasn't enough for Sony's vision. Neither was a high end one. Neither is one that even exists yet. Neither was the NVMe architecture with two levels of priority. Neither was an 8 or even 10 channel NAND interface which the most expensive NVMes tend to have. Neither was just putting in this NVMe without spending considerable cost and effort on various bits of hardware IO accelerators and an entirely new storage API paradigm.

Yeah. Sony has a reason for doing what they did. So did Microsoft.

If Sony is slightly down on GPU (down on outright compute, up on other areas of GPU like rasterisation, slightly down all weighed in), they're another generation ahead on getting data from flash chip to live and working GPU cache as quickly as possible, and that's down to far more than just the raw sequential read speed over 4 lanes of PCIe4.0.

The Unreal 5 technology demo we saw was only running at ~1440P@30Hz. It wasn't a demonstration of pixel pushing and high resolutions. It was a demonstration of IO, and it looked next generation.

It was a demonstration of an engine rendering things completely differently compared to the standard traditional method of doing it. Yes, the improved I/O is being used. So is the improved CPU and GPU power. It is still unclear which degree of performance of the SSD is required to reach this fidelity. We do not have enough information. It is possible that it requires the PS5 solution. And it is still equally possible that it does not.

 

[Sinthor]

If it blows on your face during flying sections then even better!

/playful sarcasm

Absolutely! This is one of the hidden "secret sauce" features of the PS5 that is FINALLY being talked about. So the thing is sooo advanced that it has a dedicated cooling system for the internal electronics that also serves the users by, and at a proper time determined by biometric heat readings from the camera, give the users blow..........jobs......... Hmmm... It sounded better in my head than it looks on paper?

 

[Dabaus]

As Nvidia once said, "Memory is expensive", but "Communication is prohibitively expensive"

I was looking at the Ampere leaks and one thing immediately struck me, why is memory so low on these cards? It ties into the above quote. I feel we are moving towards a future where games will be designed to take advantages of streaming capabilities of fast SSDs and so will GPU manufacturers when they are designing these cards, VRAM isn't the be all end all as it once was.

I would've still preferred if Sony stuck with under-clocked 18Gbps modules though, RT hogs bandwidth like no tomorrow and I don't see it becoming very efficient any time soon.



Xbox Era thread wasn't very pretty to go through so I can only imagine what the rest of Internet must've been like. After State of Play today, Sony are basically through with their PS4 output so their marketing for PS5 should pick up. They haven't announced any new FP game since 2017 so I imagine they plenty to say whenever their big reveal is. Meanwhile, July event for Xbox is already starting to being built as ultimate litmus test where they have to come firing on all cylinders. You look at the projects their studios have been working on, and how little time they have had, and I hope the expectations don't spiral out of control. There was an Xbox insider who was trying to throw caution by pointing out how the UE5 demo is setting 'unrealistic expectations' for early next-gen games so who knows.

Great point, and its something ive noticed too. The Xbox July event is being built up as this extravaganza where xbox is going to show banger after banger. I dont think its going to come near to some of the expectations people are already building it up to be. The urgency and importance of it will be elevated to impossible to reach levels if sony has a reasonably good event in June.

As i watched Microsofts show last Thursday and got to see the faces of their xbox management something occurred to me, these people just dont get gaming like sony does. Before the inside xbox show i thought alot of MS's decisions and games they show off were predicated on having limited options because of how far behind they are this generation, and im sure that has something to do with it but, i also think xbox management is also out of touch with the average gamer. I mean im sure they look at sales data and can see whats popular and try to emulate it, but aside from that it seemed to me these people arent dialed in like sony's management is. Just my take away from what I saw.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

People need to quite fantasizing if they do not want another ps5 13 TF situation like we had before ps5 talk.

They already mentioned that the engine will run on all platforms so if the asset details need to be lowered on some platforms it will do so.
But in either case all platforms can run this engine.


Can the XSX run this particular demo as is ? We don't know. We know it can handle any GPU related task better then the PS5 but here It really all depends upon the streaming assets required So if that demo required steaming assets greater then 2.4GB/s (Just using uncompressed as an example) then the XSX could not run it without making some compromises.

 

[FranXico]

I mean im sure they look at sales data and can see whats popular and try to emulate it, but aside from that it seemed to me these people arent dialed in like sony's management is.

Let's hope things didn't degrade either on Sony's side.

 

[Agnostic2020]

They already mentioned that the engine will run on all platforms so if the asset details need to be lowered on some platforms it will do so.
But in either case all platforms can run this engine.


Can the XSX run this particular demo as is ? We don't know. We know it can handle any GPU related task better then the PS5 but here It really all depends upon the streaming assets required So if that demo required steaming assets greater then 2.4GB/s (Just using uncompressed as an example) then the XSX could not run it without making some compromises.

Xsx will have one issue with the io and that is latency . Xsx io is not physically next to gpu and cpu like ps5 which creates latency related problems. Lets see how that can be over come by the devs.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Everyone who has seen ray tracing say that’s one of, in not the biggest advancement in graphics they’ve seen. I’d take any version of it tbh.

I'm fine to that, if the cost/benefit is ok.

 

[Dabaus]

Let's hope things didn't degrade either on Sony's side.

Anythings possible. We've yet to see sony's hand.

 

[IntentionalPun]

As i watched Microsofts show last Thursday and got to see the faces of their xbox management something occurred to me, these people just dont get gaming like sony does. Before the inside xbox show i thought alot of MS's decisions and games they show off were predicated on having limited options because of how far behind they are this generation, and im sure that has something to do with it but, i also think xbox management is also out of touch with the average gamer. I mean im sure they look at sales data and can see whats popular and try to emulate it, but aside from that it seemed to me these people arent dialed in like sony's management is. Just my take away from what I saw.

They were limited in that presentation by what 3rd parties actually responded to their request for videos.. and by what the 3rd parties sent them.

I think there's way too many conclusions being drawn from that middling show we saw. MS at some point had the idea of doing a 3rd party showcase; the content we saw came from those 3rd parties and was hardly exciting. MS has an over-hyping problem trying to talk things up for sure, but I don't know that it's indicative of them not understanding gamers.

I also don't know if they DO understand either; but that show is just not evidence of much to me other than the fact not many 3rd parties with anything good to show wanted to be involved.

 

[INC]

They were limited in that presentation by what 3rd parties actually responded to their request for videos.. and by what the 3rd parties sent them.

I think there's way too many conclusions being drawn from that middling show we saw. MS at some point had the idea of doing a 3rd party showcase; the content we saw came from those 3rd parties and was hardly exciting. MS has an over-hyping problem trying to talk things up for sure, but I don't know that it's indicative of them not understanding gamers.

I also don't know if they DO understand either; but that show is just not evidence of much to me other than the fact not many 3rd parties with anything good to show wanted to be involved.

Unless you're a dude who made a game on your own and need all the publicity you can get

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

LOL Spencer linked to an article, Twitter ads the image caption.

And Sweeney contradicted the hell out of everything else they said about the demo.. which was that it could run on phones or last gen hardware.

So how is it only possible at "any scale" on PS5?

I'm not saying there wasn't something only on PS5-ish about the demo; but how many GB/S did it require and at what part? What would have to scale down to fit on a normal NVME bandwidth wise? And is that kind of data even realistic for a full game?

Shit is exciting as hell as is the PS5 SSD; but we need to see some actual real games running to really know the difference. With the ability to push insane amounts of data around you can create demos that aren't necessarily a realistic example of what a game could actually do.

People really need to learn to listen and comprehend.
All Sweeny said was that the ENGINE is going to work across the board.
Not that this Demo or even somthing similar is going to run on all plattforms or last gen.

Please watch it again.
And if not please timestamp where he said that and send it to me.
I'll gladly rewatch it and correct myself if I am wrong.

 

[DrKeo]

Great point, and its something ive noticed too. The Xbox July event is being built up as this extravaganza where xbox is going to show banger after banger. I dont think its going to come near to some of the expectations people are already building it up to be. The urgency and importance of it will be elevated to impossible to reach levels if sony has a reasonably good event in June.

As i watched Microsofts show last Thursday and got to see the faces of their xbox management something occurred to me, these people just dont get gaming like sony does. Before the inside xbox show i thought alot of MS's decisions and games they show off were predicated on having limited options because of how far behind they are this generation, and im sure that has something to do with it but, i also think xbox management is also out of touch with the average gamer. I mean im sure they look at sales data and can see whats popular and try to emulate it, but aside from that it seemed to me these people arent dialed in like sony's management is. Just my take away from what I saw.

Well, the July event is going to determine their first year or so. If all they will show is shit, XSX's first year will be shit. MS is loading this event with next-gen hype, not fans. By not showing anything except for two "in-engine" trailers and second-class indie titles they are putting all of their eggs in the July event.

 

[Fordino]

I'm still blown away by that demo on my 4K TV, especially knowing it's mainly running at 1440p.

As others have mentioned, with possible visuals like that hopefully games companies will be sensible and not be obsessed with targeting 4K output all the time.

Also, the Unreal Engine V will finally release in late 2021, that gives their team over a year to continue optimising that engine for the PS5 and other systems. I'm sure we'll be seeing that playable demo hitting higher resolutions and/or frame rates in over a years time.

From the wow factor seen in these next-gen visuals, I think it's now very likely that Sony will be targeting 30 fps for their next God of War and HZD titles. If they're 60fps then fantastic, but if not I'm sure we can forgive them if they look absolutely incredible

With these amazing visuals and the possibility that we'll still be seeing a lot of 30fps titles still, It will be interesting to see how many games take advantage of VRR.
If a developer finds their game runs uncapped at around 40fps, for example, could they let it be uncapped for VRR supported screens (some monitors and HDMI 2.1 TVs) but have a solid capped 30 fps otherwise (if possible), or will they just cap it at 30 and spend more time improving the visuals?

I guess it might be too much to ask, especially as VRR screens surprisingly support different refresh ranges. My LG C9 (HDMI 2.1) TV's VRR range is 40-120Hz apparently, so if an uncapped game hovered between 30 and 40Hz there would be screen tearing

Can't wait to see proper next-gen gameplay!

 

[Dabaus]

They were limited in that presentation by what 3rd parties actually responded to their request for videos.. and by what the 3rd parties sent them.

I think there's way too many conclusions being drawn from that middling show we saw. MS at some point had the idea of doing a 3rd party showcase; the content we saw came from those 3rd parties and was hardly exciting. MS has an over-hyping problem trying to talk things up for sure, but I don't know that it's indicative of them not understanding gamers.

I also don't know if they DO understand either; but that show is just not evidence of much to me other than the fact not many 3rd parties with anything good to show wanted to be involved.

Good point. I didnt mention it in the last post and i probably shouldve to give more context to my thought, but I wasnt basing my premise solely on last weeks inside xbox. Its their E3 shows (with the exception of 2018), its the inside xbox shows, its the first party games they hype up. Games like Sea of thieves, Bleeding Edge, Grounded, MS Flight, theres nothing inherently wrong with them but these arent games you put front and center to go up against sony and Nintendo first party. Thats what i mean by, there is just something missing from xboxs management and that occurred to me watching last weeks inside xbox.

 

[Radical_3d]

Well, the July event is going to determine their first year or so. If all they will show is shit, XSX's first year will be shit. MS is loading this event with next-gen hype, not fans. By not showing anything except for two "in-engine" trailers and second-class indie titles they are putting all of their eggs in the July event.

I expect Halo to be bonkers. Halo 3 2006 trailer bonkers. That and a next gen Forza Horizon with realtime wacky phisics and XBox will be set for a fantastic first year.

In the US.

 

[IntentionalPun]

People really need to learn to listen and comprehend.
All Sweeny said was that the ENGINE is going to work across the board.
Not that this Demo or even somthing similar is going to run on all plattforms or last gen.

Please watch it again.
And if not please timestamp where he said that and send it to me.
I'll gladly rewatch it and correct myself if I am wrong.

Yes when he talks about scalability he doesn't specifically say "this demo."

But you really think Epic chose a demo for their engine they boasted is highly scalable that literally would only ever work on PS5?

His comment about "at any scale" is just nonsense hype at face value. Why wouldn't you be able to do that demo at a lower scale on different hardware exactly?

 

[Neo Blaster]

No matter how you look at it, the fact that Epic presented their new engine on PS5 was not lost as a message sent to Microsoft. Yes, they can try to rebound from it any way they see fit from "but this is going to run on Xbox as well" to "it will look way better on the world's most powerful console"... but it's just damage control at this point, even if the above mentioned 'reasons' are real.

I don't expect any kind of emotional intelligence from "the place that will not be named" or the likes of Timdog and Co. but looking at Spencer and Greenberg's reaction I just realized they're in almost the same spot as their... admirers. If they are so adamant about their box, this kind of knee jerk reaction shouldn't even take place; aside from rabid fan boys (on both sides) mostly everyone knows that yes, it will look and run the same for Xbox, in some instances a bit better, in other cases a bit worse, but nothing world-changing.

But looking at these people with their positions well established in Microsoft hierarchy and their reactions makes me a bit apprehensive about their PR capabilities, and it's sad. The level they're at, we shouldn't even have this kind of behavior, but apparently Twitter dumbs everyone down. Common denominator works best, I guess?

Their reaction is the perfect explanation why they interact with Timdog and many other toxic Xbox fans.

 

[IntentionalPun]

No matter how you look at it, the fact that Epic presented their new engine on PS5 was not lost as a message sent to Microsoft. Yes, they can try to rebound from it any way they see fit from "but this is going to run on Xbox as well" to "it will look way better on the world's most powerful console"... but it's just damage control at this point, even if the above mentioned 'reasons' are real.

I don't expect any kind of emotional intelligence from "the place that will not be named" or the likes of Timdog and Co. but looking at Spencer and Greenberg's reaction I just realized they're in almost the same spot as their... admirers. If they are so adamant about their box, this kind of knee jerk reaction shouldn't even take place; aside from rabid fan boys (on both sides) mostly everyone knows that yes, it will look and run the same for Xbox, in some instances a bit better, in other cases a bit worse, but nothing world-changing.

But looking at these people with their positions well established in Microsoft hierarchy and their reactions makes me a bit apprehensive about their PR capabilities, and it's sad. The level they're at, we shouldn't even have this kind of behavior, but apparently Twitter dumbs everyone down. Common denominator works best, I guess?

What was wrong with Spencer's reaction?

Never liked Greenberg... but Spencer's tweet seemed perfectly fine/normal.

And do they really interact with people like TimDog? Jesus lol

 

[Uzupedro]

It must be an interesting read, I'll take a look later.
~ It's by Alex btw, from what I read people don't like him very much so I think it's worth mentioning ~
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...eal-engine-5-playstation-5-tech-demo-analysis

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Sleep for 7 hours and this happens:

 

[SlimySnake]

Damn, i shot past 4,000 likes yesterday. crazy. thanks everyone! though i am pretty sure half of them were from Doncabesa and the xbox era discord crew posting LOL reactions to all my posts criticizing Microsoft to try and trigger me. Nice try but i will take those free reactions, thank you.

On a serious note, half of the shit i say here would be bannable on era. I like that you can freely joke around here. This is just a video game forum, and as meaningless as reactions can be, it's good to see people enjoy each others posts and have a sense of humor about video games.