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[Entroyp]

Microsoft Executive Says Xbox Series X Devs Will Learn to Address PS5 SSD Loading Screen Advantage

Bill Stillwell, Program Manager at Microsoft who is currently on the Hololens project (was working on Xbox prior) recently took part in a live Iron Lords Podcast where he opened up a bit about the loading screens concerning the PS5 SSD.

Bill Stillwell: I’ll say two things with that. One, I understand that its a marketing point and I think I said in the last Podcast we did, I’m really impressed in the archeticture they did with their drive and they’ll be able to do really cool stuff with it. I also don’t think it’s as impressive over what you’ll be able to do what the Series X has done and so I have high confident in that team. I will also say, look I reserve the right to wake up smarter tomorrow and someone may prove me wrong and we’ll learn.The one thing I have learned is I’v never underestimated game developers to take advantage of something and work around it, but that works on both sides. And so the ability of a game developer to look and say “okay I’m building this game and I want to have seamless transition with no loading screens on PlayStation, but I’m also gonna want to sell on an Xbox, what am I going to do to manage that kind of thing?” Like that will be the trick and the techniques, and so maybe, I’m just making this up, but maybe there are elevators in the Xbox version and not the Sony version. I don’t know how they’re gonna address it, but they will learn to address it and they will figure out ways to work around it, and that’s where you’ll get these economies of these statement of absolute versus what we can actually do when these games releases

He goes on to state that by no means he speaks for the company, though he believes that first-party games will take advantage of next-gen features, with the majority of platforms being designed for multiplatform in mind.

Microsoft Executive Says Xbox Series X Devs Will Learn to Address PS5 SSD Loading Screen Advantage

The Xbox Series X one major disadvantage against the PS5 is Sony's SSD solution. According to a Micosoft exec, the Xbox Series X will learn to address it.

mp1st.com

We should get a statement from Sony that says Playstation developers will learnto address the minor difference in Teraflops.

No shit sherlock...

 

[cerealbuster]

i don't know, MS's E3 conferences in 4K has always looked incredible

Well I always tried to watch trailers in 4k and so on. But they always were underwhelming or blurry. Same e.g. with kh3, I never had the wow effect, then I played it. Same with tlou2 I was never "wow this game looks soo good", but the moment I will play it, I will be like "daaaaaaaaamn"

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

This doesn't make any sense. Developers can not and will not for multiplatform games, build their games around a single SSD. This is not how it works at all.

I mean, think about it, if the developers would built their multiplatform games around the PS5 SSD, they would have to basically create two version of a game.


One Version for PS5 and one version for XSX and PCs with SSD.


Would this - from economic point of view- feasible?

I think not, we are not going to see anything like this. I think what we will see is the following:


Developers will build their games around the PC SSD and use as the lowest common denominator and then XSX and PS5 will benefit from shorter loading times compared to PC, but other than that, it won't be different to PC.

It simply isn't feasible at all, developing games is already super expensive and developing a game version for PS5 and one for XSX/PC would make it even more expensive.

Of course, this doesn't apply to CPU and GPU.


With CPU and GPU it's very easy to scale up and down, we have seen this in current gen and on PC, where we have different modes and settings, e.g. lower or higher FPS/Resolution. This is super easy and doesn't take any resources from the developers, the developer doesn't have to create different versions of a game.

It makes totally sense.

But sure, you know better than Bill Stillwell, Principal Program Manager at Microsoft.

Here is the video re-uploaded, so nobody tries to put it down, as already happened with the CryTek dev interview

"Maybe there are elevators in the Xbox version and not the Sony version. I don’t know how they’re gonna address it, but they will learn to address it and they will figure out ways to work around it"

Video Link:
https://streamable.com/i6al1d

 

[jackets with pockets]

where is this from actually? always cracks me up

There's this one from 2015:

EDIT: Source:

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Hopefully there'll be a 4K, maybe 60fps video released some time after, or at least higher quality/bitrate trailers for each piece of software shown.

As for the audio, I'm guessing they'll be using a general HRTF for the stream, which should at least give a decent experience for most people. Hopefully they put a disclaimer for those whose HRTF profile sits outside their generic profile.

I think the trailers will be uploaded separately later at 4K@60fps.

 

[FeiRR]

I doubt the 1080p30 broadcast is due to any bandwidth limitations.

Try to capture 4k footage at home. Good luck. It's not that easy.

Yeah I think they want to let Sony go first so they can try to change the narrative afterwards. I feel a very big push coming on ray tracing coming from their end.

I actually expect that cross-gen games from Microsoft will look as good or even better than next-gen games from Sony, but that's just me guessing the current situation. This is the start of a gen, most games don't use the systems to their full potential yet.

We let you dream for now. You'll be gone in a week anyway.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

We let you dream for now. You'll be gone in a week anyway.

Why would I be gone in a week? Lower the fanboy mentality.

 

[M-V2]

Tbh guys that 1080p@30fps isn't a good first impression we need for a next gen console, it's been 2 weeks they could've rendered that shit on a bicycle


Ok now time to get some heat up


Side note: I'm serious

 

[FeiRR]

Why would I be gone in a week? Lower the fanboy mentality.

We shall see, we shall see

 

[IntentionalPun]

It makes totally sense.

But sure, you know better than Bill Stillwell, Principal Program Manager at Microsoft.

Program Managers are not software developers... they are project management people.. they sit in meetings all day.

Do not take too much stake in what someone like that says.

edit: What's so funny Rusco Da Vino ? It's the truth.. worked on several projects at MS before, they are not highly technical people.

 

[zaitsu]

Why would I be gone in a week? Lower the fanboy mentality.

Lets be honest. Sony is making nextgen games from 2017. MS even now is making cross gen games. Im not worried. Sony will deliver as always

 

[Sinthor]

Tbh guys that 1080p@30fps isn't a good first impression we need for a next gen console, it's been 2 weeks they could've rendered that shit on a bicycle


Ok now time to get some heat up


Side note: I'm serious

Most people and most of the world actually, wouldn't be able to watch in 4k. Also, even in 4k YouTube videos leave much to be desired. This stuff won't look the same as it will on your TV from the console in any case. So this is really all that's needed. From a GLOBAL perspective. As someone else already mentioned, the individual trailers will no doubt be available in 4k once the dam breaks and people are allowed to talk about and show their products. We have no need to see Jim Ryan's facial pores in 4k otherwise....we just need the games!

 

[Captain Hero]

Tbh guys that 1080p@30fps isn't a good first impression we need for a next gen console, it's been 2 weeks they could've rendered that shit on a bicycle


Ok now time to get some heat up


Side note: I'm serious

Sony always know what is right for its fans

 

[3liteDragon]

Don’t know if it’s been posted here already but AMD once again confirmed that RDNA 2 has a 50% performance per watt gain from RDNA 1 during their investor presentation last Friday, along with logic enhancements (improved on-chip processing) and the ability to increase clock speeds even higher. (PS5’s GPU frequency, 2.23GHz)

Full presentation:

https://ir.amd.com/static-files/fd06c15e-0241-424d-9fd9-5a469d96012d

 

[Md Ray]

Are people forgetting? Last State of Play was streamed at 1080p max on YouTube. After the stream ended, PlayStation channel immediately had it in 4K. Pretty sure the PS5 event will be the same.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Lets be honest. Sony is making nextgen games from 2017. MS even now is making cross gen games. Im not worried. Sony will deliver as always

Just like at the launch of current-gen when the best looking game was Ryse: Son of Rome, running on a console with 40% less GPU power? I'm pretty sure both companies will deliver.

 

[MasterCornholio]

that’s the spirit ..me too i think it’s going to be better than inside Xbox and if there is more than that I’m open to it

But maybe in that case we are setting our expectations too low?

It's the first big reveal event for PS5 games so I definitely think it should be alot better than that Inside Xbox event. But then again Sony could overhype it which is what Microsoft did with that Inside Xbox event.

In the end I'm just want to see what next gen looks like.

 

[BlueHawk357]

Well, if that dreadful Xbox event was 25mins and showed nothing, what's 1hr of games going to be like?

 

[Sinthor]

Don’t know if it’s been posted here already but AMD recently confirmed that RDNA 2 has a 50% IPC gain from RDNA 1 during their investor presentation last Friday, along with logic enhancements (improved on-chip processing) and the ability to increase clock speeds even higher. (PS5’s GPU frequency, 2.23GHz)

Full presentation:

https://ir.amd.com/static-files/fd06c15e-0241-424d-9fd9-5a469d96012d

But, but.....EVERYONE knows the PS5 isn't even RDNA 1! More like RDNA .5 or .75 or something like that!!

 

[saintjules]

 

[Red_Driver85]

I've been reading the topic for several weeks now. There is little time to discuss everything that happened. But damn, how many of the most controversial emotions I had for all this time Sonya caused. Love and hate, understanding and impatience. In any case, I’m always somewhere nearby, not far from here, I just look through, rejoice and be upset with you. Be in good health guys and thanks. We are back on the hype traaaain!

 

[Captain Hero]

Are people forgetting? Last State of Play was streamed at 1080p max on YouTube. After the stream ended, PlayStation channel immediately had it in 4K. Pretty sure the PS5 event will be the same.

they didn’t believe me

 

[FeiRR]

Anyway, I'm just going to remind anyone here, both sides of the discussion, that we're waiting at the not-so-secret Discord channel for you to be present at the reveal for live chat and fun. All points of view welcome, whatever your stance is. Let's rock.

Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities

Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.

discord.gg

 

[Captain Hero]

Now imagine opening the event with :



BOI!!

 

[Bo_Hazem]

That’s a given but I was watching E3 at 4K in YT 3 years ago. I remember that because I just moved to live with my gf and had a 100MB connection which I though it was enough but Geoff kept stuttering so I decided to upgrade to 300MB for the stream.

Streams get choked, but I can watch 4K@30fps with only 16Mbps, and 4K@60fps would stutter. So it's not always about the connection you have, but the bandwidth of the stream and servers with insane amount of people watching the same thing.

 

[Md Ray]

Don’t know if it’s been posted here already but AMD recently confirmed that RDNA 2 has a 50% IPC gain from RDNA 1 during their investor presentation last Friday, along with logic enhancements (improved on-chip processing) and the ability to increase clock speeds even higher. (PS5’s GPU frequency, 2.23GHz)

Full presentation:

https://ir.amd.com/static-files/fd06c15e-0241-424d-9fd9-5a469d96012d

I had already seen that slide in March of this year during AMD Financial Analyst conf. What's new?

 

[Radical_3d]

3 years ago there was no speed rate reduction due to the pandemic, and this time I'm so much more interested in what that SSD can do than resolution. Damn, have you forgot that incredible UE5 demo wasn't even running in 4k?

Was reconstructed from a minimum of 1440p and last gen reconstruction was great for showing 4K detail. And about the pandemic the lockdown is almost over in Europe. Bandwidth restrictions should be region related.

Streams get choked, but I can watch 4K@30fps with only 16Mbps, and 4K@60fps would stutter. So it's not always about the connection you have, but the bandwidth of the stream and servers with insane amount of people watching the same thing.

It’s very server side bottlenecked, but servers prioritise faster connections. I guess there were many people with good connections watching that E3. Bo. Dude. I haven’t had a 10-something connection since early 2000s. Move from that house.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Streams get choked, but I can watch 4K@30fps with only 16Mbps, and 4K@60fps would stutter. So it's not always about the connection you have, but the bandwidth of the stream and servers with insane amount of people watching the same thing.

4k, or "4k"? (that's a terrible bitrate)

 

[Reficul]

You guys have big dreams, mark my words there will be nothing until August or later , in the best case scenario they will announce ps5 event in late July , then delayed it due to whatever reasons, everyday in last few months indicates that Sony don't have any marketing plan at all , or have unsolved problems until now

That aged like a particulary bad batch of grapes.

 

[xacto]

It makes totally sense.

But sure, you know better than Bill Stillwell, Principal Program Manager at Microsoft.

Here is the video re-uploaded, so nobody tries to put it down, as already happened with the CryTek dev interview

Video Link:
https://streamable.com/i6al1d

Try not to do this to yourself, resistance is futile

 

[Games Dean]

Late to the party but...
ALL ABOARD, WE MOVE!

Also...

My sources are saying end of July/first week of August is the timeframe being mulled over at Sony right now.

 

[TheAssist]

Tbh guys that 1080p@30fps isn't a good first impression we need for a next gen console, it's been 2 weeks they could've rendered that shit on a bicycle


Ok now time to get some heat up


Side note: I'm serious

Checkerboard that shit up!!

 

[Gediminas]

Yeah I think they want to let Sony go first so they can try to change the narrative afterwards. I feel a very big push coming on ray tracing coming from their end.

I actually expect that cross-gen games from Microsoft will look as good or even better than next-gen games from Sony, but that's just me guessing the current situation. This is the start of a gen, most games don't use the systems to their full potential yet.

there is nothing more what to say, just

 

[Md Ray]

Just like at the launch of current-gen when the best looking game was Ryse: Son of Rome, running on a console with 40% less GPU power? I'm pretty sure both companies will deliver.

*29% less GPU power.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

4k, or "4k"? (that's a terrible bitrate)

The bitrate isn't that great on youtube anyway:

 

[KentoMaiku]

I hope square enix will show up with FF16 and show us great first party lineup #PS5

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Was reconstructed from a minimum of 1440p and last gen reconstruction was great for showing 4K detail. And about the pandemic the lockdown is almost over in Europe. Bandwidth restrictions should be region related.

It’s very server side bottlenecked, but servers prioritise faster connections. I guess there were many people with good connections watching that E3. Bo. Dude. I haven’t had a 10-something connection since early 2000s. Move from that house.

Don't worry, our exile neighborhood will get 1Gbps speeds pretty soon! Going for 100Mbps for a starter. (they're digging around, probably by July or August everything will be ready for fiber internet)

 

[Killer Sakoman]

It'll be Friday 12:00am here!

Thursday 11 PM for me

 

[Naddy]

It makes totally sense.

But sure, you know better than Bill Stillwell, Principal Program Manager at Microsoft.

Here is the video re-uploaded, so nobody tries to put it down, as already happened with the CryTek dev interview

Video Link:
https://streamable.com/i6al1d

and you think that multiplatform devs will create Different games for each platform? Seriously? No. Just no.
AAA development already is super expensive. Creating different versions of a game is not feasible at all, as I said. Did you even read what I wrote there?
Tell me, how is anything I wrote wrong.
how will a third party dev create MULTIPLE VERSIONS of a game just because of a single SSD of a single platform that will have a small user base at launch.

I think the trailers will be uploaded separately later at 4K@60fps.

no, not going to happen. It was produced in 1080@30fps. They already confirmed it. Due to corona. Maybe they don’t have access To their beefy workstation due to home office etc.

 

[IntentionalPun]

The bitrate isn't that great on youtube anyway:

You are less than half the recommended bitrate.. but I suppose you could let it buffer.

 

[M-V2]

Most people and most of the world actually, wouldn't be able to watch in 4k. Also, even in 4k YouTube videos leave much to be desired. This stuff won't look the same as it will on your TV from the console in any case. So this is really all that's needed. From a GLOBAL perspective. As someone else already mentioned, the individual trailers will no doubt be available in 4k once the dam breaks and people are allowed to talk about and show their products. We have no need to see Jim Ryan's facial pores in 4k otherwise....we just need the games!

Well, that's a lame excuse tbh, Sony could give us the option to watch the stream at 4k, for the people who can't they can lower the quality. This is the first impression mate, have you seen how terrible the state of play streams at 1080p?? They were awful, showing their next gen games at that level of quality is a bit disturbing tbh...

BUT


I'm very excited I might be wrong and everything turns out to be great, just sharing my concerns

 

[ethomaz]

PlayStation®5 | Play Has No Limits | PlayStation

Everything you need to know about the PlayStation®5 console and PlayStation®5 Digital Edition with a new slim PS5 design. The best PS5 games, PS5 accessories, and the DualSense wireless controller.

www.playstation.com

Train is in full speed now it knows the new destination.

 

[Audiophile]

The event’s happening for sure this time, nothing’s stopping this. They even changed the header.

...

Cue the alien invasion...

 

[Bo_Hazem]

no, not going to happen. It was produced in 1080@30fps. They already confirmed it. Due to corona. Maybe they don’t have access To their beefy workstation due to home office etc.

4K gets uploaded later:

At least for the trailers, relax with your concern.

 

[LucidFlux]

Try to capture 4k footage at home. Good luck. It's not that easy.

Are you referring to the source material? If so, the individual game snippets could have been done while teams were still in the studio and ready for quite some time now. Who knows we're just guessing here, but I agree that doing this work from home would cause issues without access to the usual workstations, hence my original comment related to rendering the video.

 

[FeiRR]

Are you referring to the source material? If so, the individual game snippets could have been done while teams were still in the studio and ready for quite some time now. Who knows we're just guessing here, but I agree that doing this work from home would cause issues without access to the usual workstations, hence my original comment related to rendering the video.

We're talking almost half a year back. You can do much progress in that time. I guess they're not back at the usual capacity.

 

[Neo Blaster]

I don't know, they could have easily made mid-review renders to throw around the offices in lower quality and then once everything was approved a single final render at full quality...

On my home gaming computer (i7-4790, with no GPU rendering because my version of Vegas is bugged as shit and it just freezes my PC if I try) I can render 5 minutes of a relatively articulated video at 1080p 30fps and 20+ Mbps in about 15 minutes. Of course there are many factors to consider apart from the quality of the final video, but I refuse to believe that the people creating probably the most important video of the year for the entire PlayStation division of Sony cannot render one hour at 4K 60fps and Blu-ray quality (around 80 Mbps, since it's more than double the usual movie framerate), over weeks!

I think it might be more likely a problem with the size of the final file (80Mbps x 3,600seconds = 36Gb if I'm not mistaken. Plus the audio), and if a monster like that would even work and be processed properly on most web players without either breaking the flow of the player itself, capping the user's cashe or get pre-emptively reduced anyway in order to work.

You're forgetting people are working from home, using regular data capped connections.

 

[Lethal01]

LET'S GOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[Mr Moose]

Yeah I think they want to let Sony go first so they can try to change the narrative afterwards. I feel a very big push coming on ray tracing coming from their end.

I actually expect that cross-gen games from Microsoft will look as good or even better than next-gen games from Sony, but that's just me guessing the current situation. This is the start of a gen, most games don't use the systems to their full potential yet.

U WOT M8?
It didn't happen this gen, why would you expect it to happen next gen with CROSS-GEN games?

 

[Audiophile]

FRIENDLY PSA:

REMEMBER FOLKS... Basic stereo headphones/headset, make sure you disable "virtual surround", "7.1+" or "3d audio" processing.

The spatial sound and HRTF are baked into the stereo 2.0 stream. You only have two ears, you only need two channels.

If they are in fact demonstrating Tempest 3D Audio over the stream, then don't worry if it doesn't work so well for you, your HRTF profile may differ from the norm and this should be adjustable on the final console.

Also, a general rule of thumb for binaural audio + general hrtf: In-Ear > Over-Ear > On-Ear