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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

ToadMan

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10 + 20% is 12.

Keep up the personal insults by the way.
I think quoting numbers without the ability to back them up is you insulting everyone here.

As far as I’m aware, the rules of the forum allow to ask people to back up and defend their claims. What is the use of a forum otherwise?

If you can’t do that, perhaps you should refrain from making those claims.

Doesn’t seem like too much to ask that you show your basic math ability and explain where you get your numbers from. They are the crux of what you’re posting after all...

If you can’t do that, then perhaps stop referring to things you don’t have the ability to explain...
 

sircaw

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A local pond.
Great argument... The July event is really getting you guys worked up. You start nitpicking on the smallest things like a marketing video of a label they put on games. It's OK, PS5 will be a great system with great games, but compared to last gen it won't be the only system that will be doing great. Which you should applaud by the way, this will push Sony to do better, just like Sony pushed Microsoft to do better.
July event is not getting me worked up at all, that is a false statement. I am actually looking very forward to it.

We have had a lot of people comment on that advertising video from this forum saying that said video is misleading, colour me surprised that you don't think it is. Its clear as Day.

I am looking for credibility in people, and you just blew it.

And Don't give me any of that's my opinion rubbish.. You brought up the Gillette video as a counter point. ~By asking "Do you think the Gillette video is misleading instead of just saying no to the question shows to me, that you did think Microsoft's marketing video was indeed deceitful but you needed to ad some sort of justification point. Hey look, that company does it, so it must be ok bit. Why are you not calling them out as well.

I was not born yesterday.
You were being disingenuous in your reply.


As for Sony pushing Microsoft and vice versa, i agree, i have also said in many posts further back that competition is good for us all, the consumer.

If you don't like my post, report me.
But i am done with having conversations with you.
Have a good day
 
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TBiddy

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I think quoting numbers without the ability to back them up is you insulting everyone here.

As far as I’m aware, the rules of the forum allow to ask people to back up and defend their claims. What is the use of a forum otherwise?

If you can’t do that, perhaps you should refrain from making those claims.

Doesn’t seem like too much to ask that you show your basic math ability and explain where you get your numbers from. They are the crux of what you’re posting after all...

If you can’t do that, then perhaps stop referring to things you don’t have the ability to explain...
I'm sorry, but it's common knowledge that the power difference between the two consoles is about 20% - or 18%, if you prefer. You spent a lot of time trying to paint me as someone who 1) didn't know anything about numbers, 2) weren't able to do simple maths and 3) trying to bait me into getting mad, by saying shit like "keep embarrasing yourself".

But you're right, the forum rules does allow you to ask people to "back up and defend their claims", but the forum rules doesn't allow you to act like an idiot while doing it. Looking at that tag of yours, it does seem like you're having issues remembering that.
 

geordiemp

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It wouldn't be detecting or reacting to heat, it will check and react to power draw. That can be a lot quicker, reliable and consistent than heat.



This is an interesting observation. It is partly based on marketing and each promoting the areas where they have an advantage over the other. That said it also says something about how they are approaching this generation internally as that would have shaped the console designs they decided upon. They now both have to deliver the games which back up those decisions.



They are already Xbox customers - MS doesn't want or need to sell them XSX hardware. They just want to sell them a GamePass sub.
Yes we agree on heat vs predicted workload, the control reaction and granularity will be much faster (PID loop).

On Marketing I think its basically how many cross gen games you have that sets the narrative, both XSX and ps5 are 4k60 for destiny 2. If you have an open world game like HZD with likely very high details, different story.

Also PC players are only MS customers on game pass, they dont buy 3rd party games on MS store so MS does not get a cut. Fames like cyberpunk, MS will not see a penny.

A customer who buys a XSX or ps5 and buys cyberpunk, MS and Sony make money, good money.

A PC customer is not a full MS cstomer, PC gamers with game pass are just buying a small bit and what is debateably a MS loss leader for future growth.
 

DrDamn

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Also PC players are only MS customers on game pass, they dont buy 3rd party games on MS store so MS does not get a cut. Fames like cyberpunk, MS will not see a penny.

A customer who buys a XSX or ps5 and buys cyberpunk, MS and Sony make money, good money.

A PC customer is not a full MS cstomer, PC gamers with game pass are just buying a small bit and what is debateably a MS loss leader for future growth.
I don't think MS see GamePass as the loss leader for future growth, they see it as the future. To be the Netflix of games. They want subscribers on as many platforms as possible for their service. It's a different model based around subscriptions and getting additional money for associated DLC, micro-transactions and some full game purchases as well. Is it going to be a long term success? Maybe not, but that's the plan. Remaining in the console business helps them retaining the loyal and big spending fan base, but a GamePass like subs model becomes more profitable the more people you can reach with it.
 
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This is interesting ...


Sequence running in realtime on Unreal engine using photogrammetry scans. The artist - Andrew Hamilton - works at Embark studios and has many years experience at Dice prior to that working on Battlefield and Battlefront titles.
 

X-Fighter

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July event is not getting me worked up at all, that is a false statement. I am actually looking very forward to it.

We have had a lot of people comment on that advertising video from this forum saying that said video is misleading, colour me surprised that you don't think it is. It's clear as Day.

I am looking for credibility in people, and you just blew it.
What was so misleading about the video exactly? Optimized means that the game will have one of the following three things:
  1. Amazing visual fidelity => that's like enhanced for XBox One X. They updated the assets for 4K instead of using the base one (Xbox One/Lockhart)
  2. Next-gen framerates => That's just using the system to have a higher framerate output, like Dirt5 that goes up to 120fps. And the standard is indeed 30fps.
  3. Next-gen Raytracing => This isn't possible on current consoles, hence if they apply it for games that are cross-gen or on PC, and they activate this for Xbox Seriex X it's optimized.

Maybe you didn't understand their messaging properly, but the idea is that if a game gets one of those 3, it will be optimized for XSX and get a label, because this isn't possible on the Xbox One. What is so misleading about this exactly? Should they have added a line "This is also possible on other systems like high-end PC's and PS5"?

Also calling someone disingenuous because they have a different opinion than yours is pretty lame.
 
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DrDamn

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Well I'm clearly *so* last week! :D

Soz, didn't know it had already had it's own thread.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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This is interesting ...


Sequence running in realtime on Unreal engine using photogrammetry scans. The artist - Andrew Hamilton - works at Embark studios and has many years experience at Dice prior to that working on Battlefield and Battlefront titles.
Best thing about that trailer is the Nissan Patrol Y61 (GU as Aussies call it:messenger_winking_tongue:).

PS5 already showed that level of graphics or better on UE5, only lacked vegetation and used exaggerating, uncompressed 8K assets with 16K shadows.
 

Bo_Hazem

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I think quoting numbers without the ability to back them up is you insulting everyone here.

As far as I’m aware, the rules of the forum allow to ask people to back up and defend their claims. What is the use of a forum otherwise?

If you can’t do that, perhaps you should refrain from making those claims.

Doesn’t seem like too much to ask that you show your basic math ability and explain where you get your numbers from. They are the crux of what you’re posting after all...

If you can’t do that, then perhaps stop referring to things you don’t have the ability to explain...
There are websites that help with the math:

PS5's GPU theoretical TF is -15.4% less powerful



XSX's GPU theoretical TF is 18.2% more powerful



With less advanced calculators, it's a 20% difference

 

Setsuna Mudou

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I don't think MS see GamePass as the loss leader for future growth, they see it as the future. To be the Netflix of games. They want subscribers on as many platforms as possible for their service. It's a different model based around subscriptions and getting additional money for associated DLC, micro-transactions and some full game purchases as well. Is it going to be a long term success? Maybe not, but that's the plan. Remaining in the console business helps them retaining the loyal and big spending fan base, but a GamePass like subs model becomes more profitable the more people you can reach with it.
To be fair they also saw Mixer as the future and... oh, nevermind.
 

sircaw

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A local pond.
There are websites that help with the math:

PS5's GPU theoretical TF is -15.4% less powerful



XSX's GPU theoretical TF is 18.2% more powerful



With less advanced calculators, it's a 20% difference

I remember watching a video with some Japanese children using an abacus. It was incredible how fast they could work with adding huge numbers up. We are talking in the billions and done in seconds, faster than some one could do on a calculator. Such an amazing device.
 
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BadBreathOfTheWild

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PC enthusiasts have 0 interest in either XSX or PS5, there's really nothing to be arguing about here really. People who spend 2k or 3k on a computer don't want 400$ consoles, just asking/looking around will tell you that much,

Also, everything you mentioned can be applied to Switch or PS5, and even though PS4 has VR it's barely managed to find itself a userbase and no PS5 launch titles have been even mentioned to support VR so far. PC is a superior platform to all consoles and has more potential, but it comes at a cost. Buying an XSX this fall will cost me less than simply upgrading the GPU in my PC. They are 2 different markets with different entry points in terms of price and it's useless to try and compare them.
The PCMR people I know typically have a Switch and PS4 Pro, too. Back when I still had the time, money, and foreveraloneability to build top-end stuff I’d always buy consoles, too. They’d barely get used in comparison to my PC, but they sometimes made a nice change of pace, or had some interesting game I couldn’t play elsewhere. Plus it’s just nice buying tech and gaming stuff in general. I had cash burning a hole in my wallet every pay-day back then.

Despite some (typically newer) members of the PCMR cult not realising it’s tongue in cheek and a bit of a joke; it’s typically less well off people that have to commit to one console for 7 years and then feel the need to aggressively defend that decision.

As for VR, between me and my immediate family we have 4x Oculus (DK2, Rift, Rift S, Quest), 1x HTC (Vive), 1x Valve (Index) and 3x Sony (1x PS VR V1, 2x PS VR V2) headsets.

The most used headset is probably the Rift S being used for iRacing. The second most by a clear margin is my PS VR V1 being used for Sony’s own Firewall Zero Hour. I also have the HTC Vive and it doesn’t get anywhere near the usage of my PS VR because of that game.

It always comes down to the games.
 

scie

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[...]Also PC players are only MS customers on game pass[...]
Microsoft is publishing most of their games on Steam now, because on PC nobody buys games in the Microsoft Store. So you can either get Microsoft games through Game Pass, buy them in Microsoft store or buy them on Steam.
And to my surprise Microsoft is somewhat successfull in selling games on Steam. You can get Game Pass on PC sometimes for like 1-3€/month, but for example the Halo Master Chief Edition sold between 2-5 mil copies on Steam and people could play it for much less money.

Games you can buy: https://store.steampowered.com/curator/3090835-Xbox-Game-Studios/#browse
Estimated Steam sales: https://steamspy.com/dev/Xbox+Game+Studios
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I remember watching a video with some Japanese children using an abacus. It was incredible how fast they could work with adding huge numbers up. We are talking in the billions and done in seconds, faster than some one could do on a calculator. Such an amazing device.
Imagine those kids having their parents working at PlayStation? That's how we got this exotic PS5.

This is their pet:

 
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Bo_Hazem

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The PCMR people I know typically have a Switch and PS4 Pro, too. Back when I still had the time, money, and foreveraloneability to build top-end stuff I’d always buy consoles, too. They’d barely get used in comparison to my PC, but they sometimes made a nice change of pace, or had some interesting game I couldn’t play elsewhere. Plus it’s just nice buying tech and gaming stuff in general. I had cash burning a hole in my wallet every pay-day back then.

Despite some (typically newer) members of the PCMR cult not realising it’s tongue in cheek and a bit of a joke; it’s typically less well off people that have to commit to one console for 7 years and then feel the need to aggressively defend that decision.

As for VR, between me and my immediate family we have 4x Oculus (DK2, Rift, Rift S, Quest), 1x HTC (Vive), 1x Valve (Index) and 3x Sony (1x PS VR V1, 2x PS VR V2) headsets.

The most used headset is probably the Rift S being used for iRacing. The second most by a clear margin is my PS VR V1 being used for Sony’s own Firewall Zero Hour. I also have the HTC Vive and it doesn’t get anywhere near the usage of my PS VR because of that game.

It always comes down to the games.
Man, you're serious about your gaming. To me, people who directly know that I own a high-end gaming PC yet I don't play on it feel like it's strange, which is not. It's either that or a workstation, and gaming PC is more than enough and good to have it gaming-ready just in case. It's like buying PS5 instead of PS5DE although I won't stick a disk in it, but just in case. It's a FOMO thing, I guess.

I think there are many who share that mindset, I don't like mixing things up and I'm more than satisfied with PS4/Pro although my PC will have a clear edge in resolution and framerates and overall graphics. Last time a bought good PC back in 2010 before this one I won an extra laptop which I didn't know about, they just called me gave it to me and made pictures into the newspapers. :lollipop_downcast_sweat: They didn't tell me in advance.

Never touched that laptop more than 3 times (checking it out) in 1 year, as I remember, then gave it to a friend. Same with my other work laptop, I don't use it except at school, teaching (no traditional boards at school, only smart projector touch boards and laptops).

For VR, I'll wait for PSVR2 as I'm not satisfied with what I've seen from the graphics shown in PS4/Pro, then play back some of the missed games.

If I ever thought of buying games on PC, I would rather buy from Uplay, EA, or Epic Store and Steam. Xbox store will be for its exclusives.

To me console gaming is much more convenient and stable, with most friends being there, the most important ones.
 
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TheContact

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Was this posted?

Microsoft has been planning a second, cheaper and less power next-gen Xbox console. Codenamed Lockhart, it’s designed to take most of the key next-gen improvements found in the Xbox Series X and provide them at a lower price point for gaming at 1080p or 1440p.
The devkit, codenamed Dante, allows game developers to enable a special Lockhart mode that has a profile of the performance that Microsoft wants to hit with this second console. We understand that includes 7.5GB of usable RAM, a slightly underclocked CPU speed, and around 4 teraflops of GPU performance. The Xbox Series X includes 13.5GB of usable RAM, and targets 12 teraflops of GPU performance.
 

BadBreathOfTheWild

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I'm sorry, but it's common knowledge that the power difference between the two consoles is about 20% - or 18%, if you prefer. You spent a lot of time trying to paint me as someone who 1) didn't know anything about numbers, 2) weren't able to do simple maths and 3) trying to bait me into getting mad, by saying shit like "keep embarrasing yourself".

But you're right, the forum rules does allow you to ask people to "back up and defend their claims", but the forum rules doesn't allow you to act like an idiot while doing it. Looking at that tag of yours, it does seem like you're having issues remembering that.
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to round up 18% to 20% in casual conversation as you did. But it’s a 20% bigger theoretical peak figure relating to one area of a GPU. Arguably an important one, but it’s somewhat mitigated straight away by other areas being slightly more than 20% slower.

(18% more compute vs 22% more cache speed, work scheduling speed, rasterising etc)

If the clock-speeds were identical and one GPU had 20% more CUs, then it would be more straight forward.

If two cards had the same maximum theoretical figure but at different clock-speeds, it wouldn’t be fair to say there is 0% difference in power or performance.
The one with the faster clock speed would be more powerful in every benchmark and game.

Finally and most importantly, 20% extra compute doesn’t mean 20% extra frame rate etc. It doesn’t mean 20% extra “performance” from a game as it doesn’t scale that way in reality.

20% more compute potential is pretty reasonable to say although still a tiny bit misleading as there won’t be entirely equal CU efficiency between the two, even just at a hardware level. How much difference is unknown currently. Could be negligible, could be fairly modest.

20% more powerful GPU is misleading as they aren’t running at the same clock-speed, and a GPU is more than its vector units.

20% more performance in game (which I don’t think you ever claimed) is nonsense, and the different graphics APIs used by Sony and Microsoft will probably introduce more variability than on pure hardware.

None of this is saying PS5 GPU is better or even equal to XSX, either. Just that it’s hard to quantify as neatly as just focussing on one number would suggest.

I personally believe the initial rumours that said they were very close in rendering performance, despite the very different philosophies taken by either side.

I think with modern game engine designs targeting fixed frame rate and dynamic resolution rather than a fixed frame buffer and an uncapped or v-sync clamped frame rate means it’s going to be extremely difficult to spot any differences between the two in multi-platform games, and the argument will effectively fizzle out, or “wins” will be claimed based on a 50x zoom in of a dynamic shadow cast by a tree in the background, or one console hitting a low of 58 vs 59 FPS in a particularly intense moment of an in engine cut-scene.

What’s going to matter is the games that set either apart, and that’s not something that can be rounded up to a round figure on paper. It’s what sells consoles, makes money and is what this whole thing is all about in the first place.
That’s what Microsoft needs to close the gap on (in my personal opinion) and I think they know it, and have already invested in sorting that out.

I also agree with someone here who said that Microsoft coming in strong with some excellent first-party games is literally the best thing that can happen to gamers of all stripes.
It will push Sony to try and raise it to the next level in response, and spend where they normally would have felt comfortable not to.
It will help grow Xbox as a brand outside of the Anglosphere, shift way more units, and cement its future in the home console market instead of the streaming one.

The console arena would be in great shape if seven years from now people are arguing over who did the better job on games, and everyone felt compelled to buy both platforms, even if one did get bought a year or two later on.

I genuinely hope Halo Infinite recaptures the energy and innovation of the first two titles. I hope something completely out of left field gets revealed in the next Xbox event of Horizon Forbidden West caliber that means all but the most religious and devout Sonyphiles also need to get in on some Xbox action, too.
That will do more to make XSX a success than any real or misconstrued 20% GPU advantage.
That just won’t translate as some people are suggesting.

Bias Disclaimer: I had and enjoyed an Xbox and PS2, a 360 and PS3, but didn’t bother with Xbox One. I’m currently more excited about what PS5 is showing in hardware and games so far shown.
I’ll also be having a hair trigger on an XSX purchase as soon as they show “that” game and it materialises in reviews.
 
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chilichote

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There are websites that help with the math:

PS5's GPU theoretical TF is -15.4% less powerful



XSX's GPU theoretical TF is 18.2% more powerful



With less advanced calculators, it's a 20% difference


But what about the shader-independent parts in the PS5 GPU that run faster than in the XSeX due to the higher clock rate?

And so the answer to the question of which GPU now has more power is not so easy to answer^^
 

Neo Blaster

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*While MS said no 1st party exclusives, no big third party publisher is going to ignore a 150m+ install base, leaving only a couple of exclusive xsx(/pc) indies.
Indeed, saying XSX will have no exclusives for 2 years is half true, third parties are not obliged to embrace the One family. However, we have to remember they are the ones normally making crossgen games at the beginning of each gen because they can't take the risk of selling to a small and unpredictable base like a platform holder can. Cases like The Ascent, Scorn and The Medium are exception, not norm.
 
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I really believeed they already committed to this 4TF box. They have already payed for those chips.

Xbox are stuck in 2013-2019. They are fully following PC tech model. Their whole approach is safe but seems dated. PS division are completely paradigm switching and looking to break status quo with tech break throughs.

PS5 will not have downgraded or compromised games. Xbox how ever disparity over the place. Does this lockhart even have a disk??
 

Neo Blaster

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This is interesting ...


Sequence running in realtime on Unreal engine using photogrammetry scans. The artist - Andrew Hamilton - works at Embark studios and has many years experience at Dice prior to that working on Battlefield and Battlefront titles.
Honestly, I'm never impressed with such demonstrations from a gamer's perspective, to me it's 'easy' to achieve such quality when you don't have to worry about AI, characters movement and rendering, physics and many other aspects of real-time gameplay.
 
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X-Fighter

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I really believeed they already committed to this 4TF box. They have already payed for those chips.

Xbox are stuck in 2013-2019. They are fully following PC tech model. Their whole approach is safe but seems dated. PS division are completely paradigm switching and looking to break status quo with tech break throughs.

PS5 will not have downgraded or compromised games. Xbox how ever disparity over the place. Does this lockhart even have a disk??
Can we stop spreading FUD where Xbox supposedly would have compromised games due to Lockhart.
 

Bo_Hazem

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But what about the shader-independent parts in the PS5 GPU that run faster than in the XSeX due to the higher clock rate?

And so the answer to the question of which GPU now has more power is not so easy to answer^^
Indeed, we and the more informed/genuine people understand it's not as simple as that, that's why we need to see games backing them up. So far the first batch of games on PS5 are the best we've ever seen in gaming, even cross-gen games look insanely superior in graphics to the exclusive, next gen only games on XSX. Those are facts.

We'll wait for July's event if MS is going to keep up or flop.
 
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Neo Blaster

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I don't think MS see GamePass as the loss leader for future growth, they see it as the future. To be the Netflix of games. They want subscribers on as many platforms as possible for their service. It's a different model based around subscriptions and getting additional money for associated DLC, micro-transactions and some full game purchases as well. Is it going to be a long term success? Maybe not, but that's the plan. Remaining in the console business helps them retaining the loyal and big spending fan base, but a GamePass like subs model becomes more profitable the more people you can reach with it.
The 'Gamepass model', or 'Netflix model' if you prefer, is only sustainable with an enormous amount of subscribers, this is why Xcloud must succeed and Phil doesn't care whether you buy a XSX as long as you're a paying subscriber.
 
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bhunachicken

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Can we stop spreading FUD where Xbox supposedly would have compromised games due to Lockhart.
Where's the FUD? Consider this:

You build a game for XSX. All is great. It runs smooths, has great AI, large, detailed environments, etc. You then put it on the XSS. It doesn't run as great, and some portions are just downright awful or unplayable.

You optimize. Things are better, but there are some parts of the experience that simply don't hold up as well as desired or even needed.

So, what do you do? Leave it like that, warts and all, downgrade the XSX version to the level where it runs best on both machines, or strip the feature out altogether?

The above is not uncommon in the gaming industry.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Salalah, Oman
I think it says a lot about this thread, that even this insane statement isn't the most ridiculous thing in this thread.
How is that insane? Here, next gen exclusive if you missed it on XSX:







Cross-gen running on PS5







Respect the people participating here in the thread and putting effort into making informed discussions and stop insulting people.
 
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X-Fighter

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Where's the FUD? Consider this:

You build a game for XSX. All is great. It runs smooths, has great AI, large, detailed environments, etc. You then put it on the XSS. It doesn't run as great, and some portions are just downright awful or unplayable.

You optimize. Things are better, but there are some parts of the experience that simply don't hold up as well as desired or even needed.

So, what do you do? Leave it like that, warts and all, downgrade the XSX version to the level where it runs best on both machines, or strip the feature out altogether?

The above is not uncommon in the gaming industry.
The only difference between these consoles is the GPU and amount of RAM. Just lower the asset quality. You're done.
 

TBiddy

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Respect the people here participating in the thread and stop insulting people.
I absolutely respect people, even you, but there's got to be a limit. Choosing cherrypicked "gameplay" screenshots and comparing them with actual gameplay shots and then claiming the difference is "insanely superior" is disingenous at best.

PS. About the insulting part - I did notice your post about calculators, and you should have a chat with your buddy Toadman about insults.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Salalah, Oman
I absolutely respect people, even you, but there's got to be a limit. Choosing cherrypicked "gameplay" screenshots and comparing them with actual gameplay shots and then claiming the difference is "insane" is disingenous at best.

PS. About the insulting part - I did notice your post about calculators, and you should have a chat with your buddy Toadman about insults.
Cherrypicked? Disingenuous? So you have something to back those accusations? Is there any available screenshots you wanna share?

If you don't have, then move on. And stop the 20% FUD and making shit up.
 
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TBiddy

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Cherrypicked? Disingenuous? So you have something to back those accusations? Is there any available screenshots you wanna share?

If you don't have, then move on.
You deliberately picking specific screenshots is the very definition of cherrypicking. Don't get upset about that.

Edit:

To elaborate - the screenshots you posted aren't representative of final gameplay on the PS5, just like this screengrab from Youtube isn't:

 
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Bo_Hazem

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Salalah, Oman
You deliberately picking specific screenshots is the very definition of cherrypicking. Don't get upset about that.
So you wanna derail the thread now after ridiculing all the participants around here and calling people insane and have nothing to prove your points?

Maybe you should prove that I'm cherrypicking? But you're not interested in participating in this thread, right?

Well, I'll be doing something else. Not interested in wasting my time any further.
 
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May 18, 2020
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Can we stop spreading FUD where Xbox supposedly would have compromised games due to Lockhart.
This ain't rocket science. If devs are building games to use 16GB. And lockhart is at 8GB max. Immediate problem.

What do you smoke? (I want some) 16gb to 8 is design change right there. 8GB is not the original game design. Concessions have to be done to make the 16GB game to run on a 8gig box.

This before we get into the nonsense of running games on weaker gpu & cpu of xbox1, the X & what the sad edition. Thats a mess.
Lockhart is a downgraded ,compromised box. And are you trying to approve of downgraded games?? That is sad stuff. WTF is that about.
Gamers should want the best built game. SMH.
 
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TBiddy

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So you wanna derail the thread now after ridiculing all the participants around here and calling people insane and have nothing to prove your points?

Maybe you should prove that I'm cherrypicking? But you're not interested in participating this thread, right?

Well, I'll be doing something else. Not interested in wasting my time any further.
I have neither ridiculed or called anyone insane. I've merely posted that your statement was insane. But I get what you're doing - setting up strawmen in order to provoke a response and get me banned.

I assume you picked the very best screenshots you could find, since well, anything else would be silly. Thus you cherrypicked. Like anyone else would do in that situation.
 
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BadBreathOfTheWild

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If the Series S is real and released at the same time as Series X, and has the same expected lifetime, do you think that rules out any purely Series X only games?

If Series S has the same relative CPU, RAM and IO performance as the Series X but is targeting less pixels to be spent on resolution and frame rate then would it really hold back Series X?

Xbox One does but Series S should not as far as I see it.

I wonder what would happen if Series S outsold Series X 5 to 1.
I wonder if Series S will force Sony to price PS5DE lower than they would like to.

Spin faster, damn globe!
 

Setsuna Mudou

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May 29, 2020
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I think it says a lot about this thread, that even this insane statement isn't the most ridiculous thing in this thread.
Come on, I don't think that's a fair comeback. I think it would be ok to point out the big XSX blowout will happen next month and then we could make some apples to apples comparison, right? At the end of the day it will all come down to personal taste and there's not much to be right or wrong there.
 
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Dibils2k

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That's not FUD even lower resolution is a compromise.
but that would be the lockhart version... existence of Lockhart has no impact on Series X version of 3rd party games

key thing about lockhart is that it has the same SSD process as SeriesX, if thats the case then devs can mostly just lower quality to a point it runs good enough... just look at games like DOOM eternal on Switch, do you think X1 and PS4 versions suffered for it?
 

Setsuna Mudou

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The only difference between these consoles is the GPU and amount of RAM. Just lower the asset quality. You're done.
And CPU? And SSD? Actually we don't even know if the Lockhart is real, but I am kind of concerned for some "forced" parity in order to support some low end systems (like supporting the old gen for a couple years). It could end up affecting all gamers if so.
 

X-Fighter

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This ain't rocket science. If devs are building games to use 16GB. And lockhart is at 8GB max. Immediate problem.

What do you smoke? (I want some) 16gb to 8 is design change right there. 8GB is not the original game design. Concessions have to be done to make the 16GB game to run on a 8gig box.

This before we get into the nonsense of running games on weaker gpu & cpu of xbox1, the X & what the sad edition. Thats a mess.
Lockhart is a downgraded ,compromised box. And are you trying to approve of downgraded games?? That is sad stuff. WTF is that about.
Gamers should want the best built game. SMH.
Do you know how game development works? How do you think it works if I play a game on PC and only have 4GB of ram and someone else plays it and has 16GB of ram? Like I said, lower the quality of your assets so they can fit the RAM. Which they'll do anyway because Lockhart is meant for 1080p and not 4K.

That's not FUD even lower resolution is a compromise.
Why would the XSX version have a lower resolution due to Lockhart?
 

Bo_Hazem

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Salalah, Oman
You deliberately picking specific screenshots is the very definition of cherrypicking. Don't get upset about that.

Edit:

To elaborate - the screenshots you posted aren't representative of final gameplay on the PS5, just like this screengrab from Youtube isn't:

That Scorn game you showed was running on 2080Ti PC:


Those screenshots from PS5 are all officially confirmed to be running in real-time on PS5.

When we received our first few kits, I rushed to put an engineering team on the task of creating a PS5 version of Marvel’s Avengers as quickly as possible. I wanted to push Foundation, our proprietary game engine, to its limits on PS5 and see what it could do. Take a look at what we’ve accomplished so far!

Those PS5 screenshots aren't final builds, more improvements are expected:

Without any optimization work, the loading and streaming of Marvel’s Avengers improved by an order of magnitude on PS5. When optimization is complete, loading content will be nearly instant, allowing players to seamlessly jump into missions anywhere in the game world.

 
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BadBreathOfTheWild

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May 1, 2020
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but that would be the lockhart version... existence of Lockhart has no impact on Series X version of 3rd party games

key thing about lockhart is that it has the same SSD process as SeriesX, if thats the case then devs can mostly just lower quality to a point it runs good enough... just look at games like DOOM eternal on Switch, do you think X1 and PS4 versions suffered for it?
DOOM (2016) is unplayable as intended at 30 FPS on Switch. You’re pretty much relegated to strafe-aiming.
That didn’t affect the PS4 version.

But, the original developers also didn’t have to spend the time, effort and money scaling it down to run on Switch for a concurrent release, either. DOOM Eternal still isn’t out on Switch yet, so if the work was being done by the original studio it presumably still wouldn’t be out at all yet.

That’s the only downside I can see about Series S at the moment. Twice the time spent profiling and evaluating compromises (AKA “optimising”).

Many smaller studios never bothered with a PS4 Pro patch and just targeted most of their effort and resources on the more numerous variant.

A lot of PS4 Pro patches barely made any difference at all and were low effort, despite Cerny saying it only took a few weeks to get up to speed on PS4 Pro.

From a core game design standpoint I don’t see Series S as holding back Series X at all, providing the rest of the system is scaled correctly, as others are saying it is.
 

zaitsu

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May 8, 2020
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To be honest XSX and XSS are best things could happened for playstation users.
Hardware is on point, their marketing is offensive and pricing could be also. It means better pricing for PS5. Without MS on their back this gen they would go higher than they will.



$300 XSS
$400/500 PS5 DE
$500/600 XSX
$500/600 PS5
 
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