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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Xplainin

Xplainin

Banned
Panajev2001a said:
That is not what he said, but congrats for the stretching olympics. Ironically some of the times it would have to downclock are when display a menu funnily enough.

In some of the very complex games you think of the HW is not exactly as efficiently used as you would think and even in today’s consoles it would kind of bring them over the breaking point if they were.

There eventually be, as developers get more and more efficient at pushing the machines, cases where part of the optimisation will be deciding if you need AVX256/512 instructions and downclock slightly or slower code paths and faster clocks.”
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Mark Cerny
"That doesn't mean that all games will be running at 2.23ghz and 3.5ghz, when that worst case game arrives it will run at a lower clock speed"

Worst case game is an intensive game that is heavy on the GPU and CPU, which is kinda when you do need your full clock speeds.

Might have to take it up with Cerny if you disagree with what he said.
 
Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
BluRayHiDef said:
If this is true, then it proves what I've always suspected about the power gap between the XSX and the PS5: the additional ~1.85 teraflops of GPU performance that the XSX has over the PS5 won't result in an appreciable difference in performance.

If the PS5 will be able to render Assassin's Creed: Valhalla at 4K-30fps and the XSX will be able to render it at 4K but at a higher frame rate that's less than 60fps, then the additional performance of the XSX won't matter, because any frame rate that's not divisible by 30fps will be juttery on most TVs.
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In that case they wouldn't increase framerate, but resolution and effects. Graphics mode will probably be 4K60 on both with better effects on XSX, and performance mode will have higher res on XSX, something between 1800p and 2160p.

If that difference will be noticeable without DF's magnifying glasses, who knows...
 
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Games Dean

Games Dean

Member
X-Fighter said:
And talks about 5nm chips that aren't even out this year as a hardware piece for XSS... So if Tom Warren talks about tech he knows nothing about he's a fanboy and an idiot. If Matt does it it's all good.
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I know this won't change your opinion but Matt made it clear in the thread that he was speculating and explained his reasoning for that speculation but carry on. If you're honestly trying to equate Tom Warren and a former PS5 engineer I got nothing else for you.
 
Setsuna Mudou

Setsuna Mudou

Member
Xplainin said:
If you have read many of my posts you would have seen that I have said that the difference between both consoles will be very small, and that unless you are pixel counting or zooming in like DF do, then no one is really going to tell the difference.

Mark Cerny himself said that in those intensive games, the clocks will drop, and that any unused CPU power can go to the GPU. But that is only going to help the GPU get to its full 2.23ghz.
And let's be honest, the exact time you want full clocks on both GPU and CPU is when you are running those intensive games. That's the time the PS5 will use its variable clocks.

But again, I agree with you that there wont be any real advantage between the two console.
In Fact, it could be that other features such as Mesh Shading, VRS, ML and Geometry Engine etc could have a bigger impact than the games than the GPU and CPU differences.
That's what I really want to know about, and it's going to be awhile before we really do.
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Please have a read about smartshift and how it's supposed to work. The power can be transferred between cpu and gpu at such high frequency that you can literally generate the full frame at max gpu clock, then allocate extra power for cpu calculations and then back to the gpu before the next frame is generated. So unless you're targeting a render of 240 frames per second, 'we good bra'. The power shift can be done in a couple miliseconds. Just for reference 240Hz is 1 frame per each 4ms.

That's different than the average johnny's perception of clocks dropping due to thermal throttling.
 
Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
Gediminas said:
i would chose 1800p60fps. with new lighting, texture, assets, it will be harder to see the different between 1800p and 4k. espeacially if sony will come up with upgraded checkerboarding solution.
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If that rumour is true, it's awesome. If 1800p is standard base res for next gen, or even 1440p with RT, just add an efficient reconstruction technique and result will be very close to native 4k.

And regarding that matter, does anyone know what reconstruction techniques will be used on next gen consoles? I think they must have more advanced ones than checkerboarding.
 
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FALCON_KICK

FALCON_KICK

Member
danielJackson said:
Difference is that while GPU / CPU difference between ps5 / xsex is at almost nothing territory, because dev skills, tools, optimizations, budgets, popularity and other stuff can move that border into either way and at pure technical level it is just really small difference.

While with current spec+information out there = ps5 SSD including I/O is superior vs xsex SSD, it is not fanboyism, just technical fact.

So while GPU power difference will not most likely make any big differences, that can be seen without pixel peeping, SSD differences have the potential to have remarkable differences

And many xbots just dont understand what potential means, it means that SSD could make big noticeable differences, but not certainly.

So, which is bigger thing

Almost no difference on graphical processing power vs. potentially 100% or more data streaming potential?

it could be this famous idiotic xbox crybaby "lol 1s vs 2s" or it could be something bigger/different. And only time will show it

too many xbots are just stuck in the loop of thinking that ps5 people are salty or jealous because of specs, while that is probably not the case for most people. If graphical specs would matter, switch would not sell at all and everyone would buy xbox one x

Same with cars, why would ferrari owner be jealous/salty if someone else likes lamborghini that have bit better engine? If they like and enjoy their Ferrari, they dont care about what others have
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You will get banned for using the console system wars words like xbots etc
 
Dave_at_Home

Dave_at_Home

Member
Neo Blaster said:
If that rumour is true, it's awesome. If 1800p is standard base res for next gen, or even 1440p with RT, just add an efficient reconstruction technique and result will be very close to native 4k.

And regarding that matter, does anyone know what reconstruction techniques will be used on next gen consoles? I think they must have more advanced ones than checkerboarding.
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I've been wondering myself if AMD has anything on the software side of things that could come close to what Nvidia is doing on their hardware D.L.S.S. I believe they do and I'm sure it will be much better than checkerboarding.
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Games Dean said:
I know this won't change your opinion but Matt made it clear in the thread that he was speculating and explained his reasoning for that speculation but carry on. If you're honestly trying to equate Tom Warren and a former PS5 engineer I got nothing else for you.
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It's just ridiculous that you call someone out for being fast & loose when you do something similar. Obviously Matt knows more than Tom about console tech, one is an engineer the other a journalist...
 
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P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Xplainin said:
Mark Cerny
"That doesn't mean that all games will be running at 2.23ghz and 3.5ghz, when that worst case game arrives it will run at a lower clock speed"

Worst case game is an intensive game that is heavy on the GPU and CPU, which is kinda when you do need your full clock speeds.

Might have to take it up with Cerny if you disagree with what he said.
Click to expand...

You got it the other way around, that worst game is worst because it is making very very efficient use of the HW and the workload it is running is expensive in terms of power usage, but you know it...you are trying to quote bits and pieces of that interview to make it look like “oh look, when a heavy game comes that actually needs a fast CPU and GPU the PS5 would let it down”.

"I think you're asking what happens if there is a piece of code intentionally written so that every transistor (or the maximum number of transistors possible) in the CPU and GPU flip on every cycle. That's a pretty abstract question, games aren't anywhere near that amount of power consumption. In fact, if such a piece of code were to run on existing consoles, the power consumption would be well out of the intended operating range and it's even possible that the console would go into thermal shutdown. PS5 would handle such an unrealistic piece of code more gracefully."
Click to expand...
 
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R

roops67

Member
TFlops CANNOT be used as fixed comparison ratios, which a few of you have been using these ratios as gospel lately. Experts worth their salt have repeatedly stressed these are wrong metrics in real world scenarios
Using car analogy again. A computer game will be equivalent to a busy city with unpredictable routes because of the human interaction. The XSX tops out at 120mph and PS5 100mph, you can't say they will traverse through the city at top speed with XSX beating the PS5 by 1.2x, or XSX will have 20% lead. Theoritical top speed (TFlops peak) isn't even a factor here
The speeds (TFlops) the cars will hit in the city will depend on acceleration and handling. This will be GPU efficiency such as avoiding stalls by keeping the CU's well fed during changes
Only on very long straights where the top speeds or peak TFlops will show, that's equivalent to fixed benchmark programs
 
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Games Dean

Games Dean

Member
X-Fighter said:
It's just ridiculous that you call someone out for being fast & loose when you do something similar. Obviously Matt knows more than Tom about console tech, one is an engineer the other a journalist...
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I just explained to you how Matt WASN'T doing something similar. He speculated and noted that he was speculating. And even furthermore, unlike Tom, his speculation wasn't even about making the "opposing" console look bad.
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Games Dean said:
I just explained to you how Matt WASN'T doing something similar. He speculated and noted that he was speculating. And even furthermore, unlike Tom, his speculation wasn't even about making the "opposing" console look bad.
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So the difference is that Tom has to say specifically that he is speculating... Do all of us do the same on here?
 
B

Brudda26

Member
bhunachicken said:
"has two optimization mode , 60 fps 1800p and 4k30 fps on PS5"

Is this a typo? Should it be 1080p? Looks like a typo to me.
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No, why does everyone suddenly assume to get 60fps they need to go to 1080p. That makes absolutely no sense what so ever, with the specs they have they could run 120fps at 1080p. What they are saying is they drop to 1800p to hit 60fps notice how they say xsx isnt quite 4k60. With a 18% power differential that's not gonna cause a 4x resolution drop to hit 60fps. Tho I think that leak is entirely fake.
 
Games Dean

Games Dean

Member
X-Fighter said:
So the difference is that Tom has to say specifically that he is speculating... Do all of us do the same on here?
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*Sigh*

Ok. Once more, with feeling.

Tom has a history of twisting things and misrepresenting things to benefit the plastic box he likes, as Matt pointed out. You responded by saying "look here, next gen isn't on 5nm so Matt's a hypocrite". But they're not the same thing. Matt's clearly speculating on that specific and backs up that speculation with well reasoned opinions and facts, in addition to speculating in a manner that seeks to justify what Microsoft is doing rather than tear it down (as our dear friend Tom likes to do about the PS5).

Do you now see how they act completely different? If you still don't, I can't help you. Have a good one.
 
G

Garjon

Member
Games Dean said:
*Sigh*

Ok. Once more, with feeling.

Tom has a history of twisting things and misrepresenting things to benefit the plastic box he likes, as Matt pointed out. You responded by saying "look here, next gen isn't on 5nm so Matt's a hypocrite". But they're not the same thing. Matt's clearly speculating on that specific and backs up that speculation with well reasoned opinions and facts, in addition to speculating in a manner that seeks to justify what Microsoft is doing rather than tear it down (as our dear friend Tom likes to do about the PS5).

Do you now see how they act completely different? If you still don't, I can't help you. Have a good one.
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Don't forget him spreading a rumour about the PS5 having overheating problems, sourcing a bloody Youtube comment!
 
SSfox

SSfox

Member
MasterCornholio said:
SSDs can change game design. It's nice to hear another dev confirm they again. It really is one of the biggest upgrades.



To be fair he was talking about both systems on general.
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I don't think it's one of the biggest, i think it's simply the biggest.


MasterCornholio said:
To be fair he was talking about both systems on general.
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Sure, but we know which console put more focus on this aspect though. So it's another proof that Sony and Cerny did the right call, at least hardware wise.
 
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