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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Metroiddarks

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that's actual shrinking of transistor problem not clock rate.
Yes you are right, sorry I didn't see the context of your conversation.
I've never seen a generation with new info spread out in little tidbits through months like this one, I miss those old 'spill-it-all' events.
We never have a release of new gen in middle of a pandemic any plan is susceptible to change so dropping information that is not 100%
secure is not a good idea.
 
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Redlight

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I am getting seriously concerned for all the people who can't let go of the "power advantage" narrative and keep chugging it over and over and over in so called "arguments", as if they're trying to ascert a sense of dominance. That shit is NOT healthy. I play games for fun, not to boost my ego or put others down. I couldn't care less about having a weaker or stronger gaming platform of choice as long as I enjoy its particular games. For christ's sake, I really hope the suppression techniques, bickering and trash talking won't go on for the entire PS5/XSX generation.
These kinds of arguments are as old as consoles themselves. Didn't you notice it during the entirety of this current gen or the PS3/360 era, or in every other era? It's a constant.

Power is a key element of these technologies. It's important.

I guess people tend not to notice it if the advantage favours their preferred console. Those supporting the less-powerful console tend to not like it to be mentioned at all, as it's all a bit inconvenient.
 
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I guess people tend not to notice it if the advantage favours their preferred console. Those supporting the less-powerful console tend to not like it to be mentioned at all, as it's all a bit inconvenient.
Same thing for those pushing the SSD advantage. The ones with the slower I/O get annoyed with reminding that they have a disadvantage in that area.

Works both ways.
 

Redlight

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Same thing for those pushing the SSD advantage. The ones with the slower I/O get annoyed with reminding that they have a disadvantage in that area.

Works both ways.
Absolutely.

When these consoles are finally out we'll move to a new phase. If (for example) the Series X has a raytracing/frame rate advantage and the PS5 has a detail/load time advantage then two camps will form, one camp will be...

"I prefer frame rates to be more filmic and too much ray tracing causes coronavirus. Speed and detail is everything!"

and the other will be...

"I can't see that additional detail from where I sit and I need that extra loading time for snacks - ray tracing and frame rates are everything!"

For about 8 years. Are you ready? :)
 
Mar 27, 2020
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Absolutely.

When these consoles are finally out we'll move to a new phase. If (for example) the Series X has a raytracing/frame rate advantage and the PS5 has a detail/load time advantage then two camps will form, one camp will be...

"I prefer frame rates to be more filmic and too much ray tracing causes coronavirus. Speed and detail is everything!"

and the other will be...

"I can't see that additional detail from where I sit and I need that extra loading time for snacks - ray tracing and frame rates are everything!"

For about 8 years. Are you ready? :)
I'm guessing most of the arguing will be which advantage is most noticeable. I mean if it's only slightly higher resolution with a slightly more stable framerate I don't think it will matter. Just like if loading and streaming is slightly better I don't think it will matter.
 

Redlight

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I'm guessing most of the arguing will be which advantage is most noticeable. I mean if it's only slightly higher resolution with a slightly more stable framerate I don't think it will matter. Just like if loading and streaming is slightly better I don't think it will matter.
History would suggest the opposite, the more fine grained the differences are, the more intense the debate will be. Especially on enthusiast sites like this.
 

Snowdonhoffen

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Phil Spencer:
As a player you are the centre of our strategy. Our device is not the centre of our strategy, our game is not the centre of the strategy. We want to enable you to play the games you want to play, with the friends you want to play with, on any device. […] Gaming is about entertainment and community and diversion and learning new stories and new perspectives, and I find it completely counter to what gaming is about to say that part of that is to lock people away from being able to experience those games. Or to force someone to buy my device on the day that I want them to go buy it, in order to partake in what gaming is about.
Also Phil Spencer and Xbox every year:

 

roops67

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You know that the "efficiency" the post is talking about is the efficiency from the PSU? It is not some frequency efficiency ranges from a chip or what not..
Raul I usually find your posts are on the ball but I believe you've missed the point here about the relationship of PSU usage (power being drawn) and the frequency. The article Dodrake linked to graphically shows how PS5 uses variable frequency to smooth out the code that causes power spikes (unbounded framerates skyrocket or background processes cycle over and over without meaningful effect) so it can raise the sustained work being done by increasing the average frequency, therefore using up that headroom that would had been wasted with fixed frequency

Dodrake linked to:
 

Redlight

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What you’re posting are quotes from people trying to comprehend/grasp/explain performance at a system level and trying to imply those people were saying 10.3 > 12.1.

That’s clearly disingenuous.
Nonsense. Let's have the quotes speak for themselves, shall we?

"Ps5 games will look better, deal with it."

"PS5 is overpowered. You've heard it first on NeoGAF, folks. Now let's wait for news outlets to catch up with this thread."

"This statement leaves Microsoft and the Series X in a really bad position"

"...XsX cpu will be taxed where PS5 will be free, assets will be compromised, sound"

"Check the Medium trailer. It will be possible but with less fidelity than PS5. How much, we don't know yet. I expect quite a lot."


That seems to be quite a lot of people implying that "10.3 > 12.1." to me. I mean, are you kidding?

Also, let's not forget that I wasn't even commenting on what they said, rather replying to a claim that 'no-one had suggested that the PS5 would outperform the Series X".

They have. No amount of bluster changes that.
 

Redlight

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Is it so strange that there are claims that the PS5's design might actually allow it to outperform the Series X in certain scenarios?

Sony has developed so much custom hardware and has looked into every tiny detail of the whole flow of the console to minimise or eliminate bottlenecks.

Yes the XsX has 17% more TFlops. But the TFs don't give the full picture. In fact, it only gives a small part of the picture.
- TF count is theoretical. If you would flip all of the transistors
- Games never utilise the CPU and GPU for 100%
- Other bottlenecks can prevent the GPU to reach it's max theoretical performance

And still, people -including Microsoft, cringe - want to shout that the XsX is the more powerful console. The PS4 was 40% more powerful than the Xbox One and that barely showed in third party games! It's just such a small difference that I'm sure you could do blind viewing of 3rd party games and not be able to tell XsX from PS5.

It's actually quite simple, Microsoft went with a traditional console:
- Constant clocks, variable power
- High CU count, low clock speed
- Reasonably standard SSD
- Basically a beefed up Xbox One X (it was designed by the same team as well)

Playstation went their own unique way:
- Constant power, variable clocks
- Low CU count, high clock speed
- Super custom SSD with more lanes, less chips per lane, way more custom hardware
- Custom hardware to remove bottlenecks around CPU/GPU/RAM
- Concept that nobody has seen before
I was replying to someone who was outraged that some Xbox posters were claiming that the power gap was huge.

My points were that...

1) There didn't seem to be a lot of posts claiming a massive difference

2) That there is a gap on paper, but probably not a large one, and...

3) That there were, in fact, a lot more posters claiming that Sony would be more performant despite the power gap because...magic.

Posts like yours prove my point absolutely. So, thanks. :)
 

Delpij

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Ok, so while you have no evidence or ANY fact to back you up, since you don't like the content and statements, we should all just assume that the CEO of a publicly traded company is just continually lying in what he says, right?

Not gonna happen.
I have explicitly shared a hypothesis about what most likely happened, based on my own hands-on experience in the financial industry.
The fact that his company is publicly traded is irrelevant. Financial authorities like the SEC in the USA, or the ACPR/AMF in France, exist to enforce the regulatory framework applying to such companies and their Directors... That doesn't mean you can assume that these Director never breach or twist the law. Not how the world spins.

It's not that I don't "like the content and statements", it's just that I've seen people like you being played by PR daily for the past 15 years.
 
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roops67

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Electrons start jumping across the lanes at some point when moving too fast, seemingly unrelated to heat. Not sure how to defeat physical limits like this. Logically not going to a smaller a nm, instead of going 5nm, remaining at 7nm may be better as there is more physical room and distance to accomodate those electrons? No idea.
What you may be referring to is quantum tunnelling. Going to lengths smaller than 3nm the effects will be more apparent where electrons act more like waves than particles , in reality they're probability waves than actual point like particle (well actually everything is). Passing through barriers where they're not intended to, across parallel circuit tracks or jumping across the pn junction depletion layer within the transistor when it should be in an off state. Yes higher frequencies plays a part aswell. That's why the industry will be hitting against the laws of physics soon. That's as much detail I'm gonna go into it before I get things wrong, Google it its real interesting stuff ;)
 

Sinthor

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I have explicitly shared a hypothesis about what most likely happened, based on my own hands-on experience in the financial industry.
The fact that his company is publicly traded is irrelevant. Financial authorities like the SEC in the USA, or the ACPR/AMF in France, exist to enforce the regulatory framework applying to such companies and their Directors... That doesn't mean you can assume that these Director never breach or twist the law. Not how the world spins.

It's not that I don't "like the content and statements", it's just that I've seen people like you being played by PR daily for the past 15 years.
Nice 'appeal to authority' for your argument, but I get it. You're just basing what you think might have happened based on your work experience. Fair enough! A lot of us have had plenty of experience with corporate PR.

Bottom line your experiences and biases are going to shape conclusions on something like this, especially where there is no hard evidence to go off of. I guess I'd just maintain that absent any actual facts or evidence, it's more likely not to have been some nefarious deal. But that's just MY opinion. ;)
 

Delpij

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Nice 'appeal to authority' for your argument, but I get it. You're just basing what you think might have happened based on your work experience. Fair enough! A lot of us have had plenty of experience with corporate PR.

Bottom line your experiences and biases are going to shape conclusions on something like this, especially where there is no hard evidence to go off of. I guess I'd just maintain that absent any actual facts or evidence, it's more likely not to have been some nefarious deal. But that's just MY opinion. ;)
And I respect your opinion. Nobody knows what actually happened.
 

kensama

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Nonsense. Let's have the quotes speak for themselves, shall we?

"Ps5 games will look better, deal with it."

"PS5 is overpowered. You've heard it first on NeoGAF, folks. Now let's wait for news outlets to catch up with this thread."

"This statement leaves Microsoft and the Series X in a really bad position"

"...XsX cpu will be taxed where PS5 will be free, assets will be compromised, sound"

"Check the Medium trailer. It will be possible but with less fidelity than PS5. How much, we don't know yet. I expect quite a lot."


That seems to be quite a lot of people implying that "10.3 > 12.1." to me. I mean, are you kidding?

Also, let's not forget that I wasn't even commenting on what they said, rather replying to a claim that 'no-one had suggested that the PS5 would outperform the Series X".

They have. No amount of bluster changes that.

Seems you don't do difference between to look better and technically better.
A game that look better doesn't imply 10.3>12.1 and again, TF alone doesn't mean nothing many developers said that. Are you a developer? If no why go against those claim made by those who work on games?
You take numbers which only accommodate you and not regarding the whole piece of hardware.
Yes 12.1>10.3 in TF and yes bandwitdth is > to PS5 bandwidth, but it was explain that separate memory on XSX will be a bottleneck, as the XSX's CPU will be impacted with work that PS5 architecture free up and other thing.
Finally we SPECULATE here that in the end number doesn't say nothing and NO PS5 won't outperformed XSX but PS5 can match on par.

For the quote on XSX CPU that's fact, We know from Cerny the CPU of PS5 via IO and DMA processor will be free of task. That's not the case of XSX until you can prove the opposite.

Again for the medium i don't understand the comment, cause it's exclusive to Xbox and PC.
 
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Vae_Victis

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Cool I will be looking forward to playing the new Halo on my PS5.
Nah, he's being more selective than that. Platform exclusivity is perfectly fine, it's "generational exclusives" that have to go.

Basically as long as you buy for any Microsoft platform, Phil loves you all the same even if it's not their newest console.

Of course 2 years from now Xbox One will be dropped and left to rot, because developing games with several generations of platforms in mind definitely doesn't hold the newer ones back. And also, DirectX 12 is definitely not exclusive to Windows 10, and cross-buy games on the Microsoft Store are definitely not arbitrarily gated for people using Windows 10 only. Because Microsoft really, really care about supporting every platform long-term without imposing arbitrary generational leaps, and the player is at the center of their strategy.
 
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SgtCaffran

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I was replying to someone who was outraged that some Xbox posters were claiming that the power gap was huge.

My points were that...

1) There didn't seem to be a lot of posts claiming a massive difference

2) That there is a gap on paper, but probably not a large one, and...

3) That there were, in fact, a lot more posters claiming that Sony would be more performant despite the power gap because...magic.

Posts like yours prove my point absolutely. So, thanks. :)
I don't know man. I think if you read my posts and believe it agrees with your point then either I don't understand your point or you don't understand my post.

I feel there have been quite some people here simply claiming the XsX as most powerful (blanket statement) based on one purely theoretical figure, ignoring all other context.

So about your point 3: yes I believe the PS5 might outperform the XsX in certain scenarios (not a blanket statement) due to all of the hardware bottleneck eliminations throughout the entire system. Not magic, obviously.
 

kourooshkabir

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jasondefaoite

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Nah, he's being more selective than that. Platform exclusivity is perfectly fine, it's "generational exclusives" that have to go.

Basically as long as you buy for any Microsoft platform, Phil loves you all the same even if it's not their newest console.

Of course 2 years from now Xbox One will be dropped and left to rot, because developing games with several generations of platforms in mind definitely doesn't hold the newer ones back. And also, DirectX 12 is definitely not exclusive to Windows 10, and cross-buy games on the Microsoft Store are definitely not arbitrarily gated for people using Windows 10 only. Because Microsoft really, really care about supporting every platform long-term without imposing arbitrary generational leaps, and the player is at the center of their strategy.
But, that's not what he said. And also, why would the XB1 be dropped 2 years from now?

"Sorry, I am a bit soapboxy with this one. Gaming is about entertainment and community and diversion and learning new stories and new perspectives, and I find it completely counter to what gaming is about to say that part of that is to lock people away from being able to experience those games. Or to force someone to buy my specific device on the day that I want them to go buy it, in order to partake in what gaming is about.
 
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Lort

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I don't know man. I think if you read my posts and believe it agrees with your point then either I don't understand your point or you don't understand my post.

I feel there have been quite some people here simply claiming the XsX as most powerful (blanket statement) based on one purely theoretical figure, ignoring all other context.

So about your point 3: yes I believe the PS5 might outperform the XsX in certain scenarios (not a blanket statement) due to all of the hardware bottleneck eliminations throughout the entire system. Not magic, obviously.
The specifications aren’t theoretical they are cold hard facts.. xbox has more TFlops, more raytracing hardware and more mem bandwith.

feel free to imagine your happy place though...

The Playstation has significant bottlenecks in terms of memory bandwidth and ray tracing capability compared to latest gen pc cards.
 
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Vae_Victis

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But, that's not what he said.
He went on a spiel about how "PS5 style exclusives" are a bad thing for the players and the drawbacks due to supporting several generations of hardware are "a meme".

I don't know what you infer from that other that "multi-generational games are the way to go", but if you are interpreting differently please let me know how you got there.

And also, why would the XB1 be dropped 2 years from now?
Because he himself said that earlier this year: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-01-11-dont-expect-first-party-xbox-series-x-exclusives-for-a-couple-of-years

Of course he was presenting it as "we are not going to drop Xbox One for a couple more years", but the point is the same ("in two years, we will drop Xbox One").
 
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Darius87

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The specifications aren’t theoretical they are cold hard facts.. xbox has more TFlops, more raytracing hardware and more mem bandwith.

feel free to imagine your happy place though...
so tflops aren't theoretical?

The Playstation has significant bottlenecks in terms of memory bandwidth and ray tracing capability compared to latest gen pc cards.
PS5 memory bandwidth is fine for CU amount it has but what are bottlenecks for PS5 RT?
 

kensama

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feel free to imagine your happy place though...

The Playstation has significant bottlenecks in terms of memory bandwidth and ray tracing capability compared to latest gen pc cards.

Feel free to think PS5= Wii and XSX=Xbox one in term of gap too.
Which bottleneck i'm curious?

GPU: on XSX= 52 CU @1.825Ghz compared to PS5= 36 CU @ 2.23Ghz and with IO like cache scrubber so at the end could on par with the GPU of XSX
Memory: on XSX we have two separate frequencies and split RAM (10Gb @560Gb/s for graphics, 6.5Gb for OS and CPU @336Gb/s) vs 14.5Gb (CPU and GPU i assume 1.5 Gb/s for OS see less) and unified.
So bottleneck on memory is on side of XSX.
 
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Lort

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so tflops aren't theoretical?


PS5 memory bandwidth is fine for CU amount it has but what are bottlenecks for PS5 RT?
No more theoretical than most specifications.

Faster memory bandwith would be better for the ps5, the ray tracing of AMD hardware is linked to the CU count which is why MS is bragging about it and Sony doesnt want to talk about it.
 

kensama

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No more theoretical than most specifications.

Faster memory bandwith would be better for the ps5, the ray tracing of AMD hardware is linked to the CU count which is why MS is bragging about it and Sony doesnt want to talk about it.

you won't hear the talk about CU from but Cerny already talked about in "The road to PS5"
 
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Lort

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Feel free to think PS5= Wii and XSX=Xbox one in term of gap too.
Which bottleneck i'm curious?

GPU: on XSX= 52 CU @1.825Ghz compared to PS5= 36 CU @ 2.23Ghz and with IO like cache scrubber so at the end could on par with the GPU of XSX
Memory: on XSX we have two separate frequencies and split RAM (10Gb @560Gb/s for graphics, 6.5Gb for OS and CPU @336Gb/s) vs 14.5Gb (CPU and GPU i assume 1.5 Gb/s for OS see less) and unified.
So bottleneck on memory is on side of XSX.
The bottleneck is on the side of the ps5 .. you just listed out the specs which show that.

xbox gpu has 560 gb bandwith over 100gb more than the playstation GPU.

If the playstation gpu was really so fast that it could keep up with the xbox, the memory would be even more of a bottleneck
 

kensama

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The bottleneck is on the side of the ps5 .. you just listed out the specs which show that.

xbox gpu has 560 gb bandwith over 100gb more than the playstation GPU.

If the playstation gpu was really so fast that it could keep up with the xbox, the memory would be even more of a bottleneck

Than XSX. This will make the console work mostly on the 10.28 Tflops. But in XSX, since the other parts of the gpu work slower due to the lower clock speed, it actually works a lot at lower Tflops most often and reaches 12 only at ideal situations.
Feel free to have more acknowledgment than this guy


It has been said than the XSX design had more bottleneck than PS5 which is freeup from most of part bottleneck in the hardware but you continue to claim opposite.
 
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jasondefaoite

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He went on a spiel about how "PS5 style exclusives" are a bad thing for the players and the drawbacks due to supporting several generations of hardware are "a meme".

I don't know what you infer from that other that "multi-generational games are the way to go", but if you are interpreting differently please let me know how you got there.
I'm reading his actual quote in English.

Because he himself said that earlier this year: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-01-11-dont-expect-first-party-xbox-series-x-exclusives-for-a-couple-of-years

Of course he was presenting it as "we are not going to drop Xbox One for a couple more years", but the point is the same ("in two years, we will drop Xbox One").
But doesn't this go against what he just covered in is interview?

"As a player you are the centre of our strategy," Spencer concludes. "Our device is not the centre of our strategy, our game is not the centre of the strategy. We want to enable you to play the games you want to play, with the friends you want to play with, on any device. On TV, the Xbox console is going to be the best way to play console games. Xbox Series X is the most powerful console out there and it will have absolutely the best versions of our console games. But that's not to exclude other people from being able to play.

"Sorry, I am a bit soapboxy with this one. Gaming is about entertainment and community and diversion and learning new stories and new perspectives, and I find it completely counter to what gaming is about to say that part of that is to lock people away from being able to experience those games. Or to force someone to buy my specific device on the day that I want them to go buy it, in order to partake in what gaming is about.

"Gaming is bigger than any one device, and that is something as an industry that we've embraced all up as we bring more and more players in. I think it's vital to the role that gaming can play on the planet."
So I guess all this PR speak above is only valid for 2 years?
 
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Brudda26

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Everyday I come to this thread now it's just someone posting numbers saying this better than that and muh bottlenecks without actually having any knowledge of what they are talking about. Especially the people who refute what engineers and developers say because it doesnt fit there narrative.
 

Darius87

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No more theoretical than most specifications.
TFLOPS = Theoretical Floating Operations Per Second
what other specifications you talking about?
Faster memory bandwith would be better for the ps5, the ray tracing of AMD hardware is linked to the CU count which is why MS is bragging about it and Sony doesnt want to talk about it.
if something could be better means it's bottleneck?
Quantum error use all RT features on PS5 that means even bottlenecked HW could do RT doesn't it?
 

Rudius

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As a 34 year old, I too remember the days of arguing over the power of the PS2 versus Dreamcast. Also whether or not the N64 was truly 64bit. The good old days of being stupid and petty when you're a kid. Doesn't matter what the price for these new systems are considering I'll be spending over a grand on a new TV anyway. If Sony nails the next PSVR2 and actually gets AAA studios to produce content, than I'm sold on that as well. SOMEONE GIVE ME ACE COMBAT 4 AND 5 IN VR PLEASE! I KNOW IT'S METAL GEAR SOLID OF THE SKY, BUT I LIKE IT!
Same sentiment here. Without VR Microsoft (or Nintendo) is not even competing with Sony for my money. I'd rather go to PC or buy a Quest.

And traditional Ace Combat is incredible by the way. 7 shows the potential of VR as a way to transform the gaming experience.
 
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Vae_Victis

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So I guess all this PR speak above is only valid for 2 years?
They are pretty much contradicting statements, so they can't just both be true. Either there are zero disadvantages to supporting multiple generations of hardware at the same time and you plan to do just that, or you pre-emptively give a (relatively short) deadline before support for the old hardware is dropped.

Microsoft has been spinning their messaging quite a lot with Xbox Series X, they seem too eager to always give an overly-positive answer to whatever is the topic of the day, but in doing so over the course of months they end up with a confusing, vague and sometimes contradictory overall message.

The "holding back is a meme" take is just dumb in my opinion, and there are a billion possible examples on why. The effective yield of hardware in consoles vs. PC by simple virtue of the former being a closed and unified environment is just the most obvious. Of course it's not impossible to do a better job of optimization for individual games, but if you want to claim a wider hardware support has NO effect on the game, you need to spend a lot more resources for development, so it indirectly still had an effect in terms of what you could have done with that same amount of time and money.

I don't doubt graphical scalability will be relatively straightforward between consoles with the same base architecture (we're not talking about making the same game running on PS3 and PS4, for example), but if you set out to develop a game that must run on an Xbox One as much as on an Xbox Series X, then your game MUST work on a Jaguar CPU and an HDD, unless you basically develop two different games in terms of how all the things related to them work. There is simply no way around it: your enemy AI will either run on an overloaded Jaguar CPU (and then you are handicapping yourself in terms of what the XSX could do), or you must write two different AIs (for twice the amount of work and ending up with two different games).
 
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SgtCaffran

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The specifications aren’t theoretical they are cold hard facts.. xbox has more TFlops, more raytracing hardware and more mem bandwith.

feel free to imagine your happy place though...

The Playstation has significant bottlenecks in terms of memory bandwidth and ray tracing capability compared to latest gen pc cards.
Theory and fact are not mutually exclusive. The whole point is that yes there is a TF difference (fact) but this number is a purely theoretical number that says very little of the entire system (theory).

For example (and this has been stated multiple time in this thread already):
- games never utilise the CPU and GPU 100% of the time and usually not at the same time
- the TF number is a maximum theoretical number that is only achieved during stress tests where all transistors are flipped repeatedly
- Certain bottlenecks such as cache/memory can also prevent the GPU being fully utilised (and in the case of the XSX, it's harder to make sure all CU are filled with useful work)

Regarding the memory bandwidth, I'm not sure what the best solution is. The XsX effectively only has 10GB of fast memory for games and the PS5 might have up to 16GB, depending on how they will deal with the OS (seperate pool is still a possibility). Next to this, the PS5 I/O system with it's custom hardware will make the memory pool more effective for the current frame because less data has to be loaded for the next frames due to the superior I/O speed.

Raytracing is an interesting topic but to be honest, nobody really knows how that's going to play out. From what we know so far it might lead to a situation where the XsX has the advantage in total number of rays and the PS5 has the advantage in ray bounces. So it's not necessarily a bottleneck for the PS5. For sure the bigger GPU will be able to give the XsX a slight edge here.
 
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DrDamn

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When these consoles are finally out we'll move to a new phase. If (for example) the Series X has a raytracing/frame rate advantage and the PS5 has a detail/load time advantage then two camps will form, one camp will be...

"I prefer frame rates to be more filmic and too much ray tracing causes coronavirus. Speed and detail is everything!"

and the other will be...

"I can't see that additional detail from where I sit and I need that extra loading time for snacks - ray tracing and frame rates are everything!"

For about 8 years. Are you ready? :)
It's amazing how the advantages of a persons console of choice suddenly become the most important thing for them. :)

The context from which they discuss the features are always to highlight the "failings" of the other console and not the possibilities of their own.
 

kensama

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Mar 25, 2007
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It's amazing how the advantages of a persons console of choice suddenly become the most important thing for them. :)

The context from which they discuss the features are always to highlight the "failings" of the other console and not the possibilities of their own.

TBH for me my choice is not related to power of the console btu with game from first party and in this domain Sony is far ahead. Seeing for example last gen games as TLOU2 or Ghost of tsushima on a 1.84 (and 4.3) Tflop console that's amazing.
But talking about tech is also facinating. And we does not forget that for the moment only Microsoft hardcore fanboys are the first to spread to downplay the PS5 and only them (they also created a discord for this).
 

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
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What you may be referring to is quantum tunnelling. Going to lengths smaller than 3nm the effects will be more apparent where electrons act more like waves than particles , in reality they're probability waves than actual point like particle (well actually everything is). Passing through barriers where they're not intended to, across parallel circuit tracks or jumping across the pn junction depletion layer within the transistor when it should be in an off state. Yes higher frequencies plays a part aswell. That's why the industry will be hitting against the laws of physics soon. That's as much detail I'm gonna go into it before I get things wrong, Google it its real interesting stuff ;)
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking off without any scientific knowledge on the topic. I assumed logic failing would be related as I’m not sure what else Cerny could be referring to otherwise. Again qualifying my lack of knowledge on the topic and simply speculating.
 

sircaw

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Jul 3, 2019
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A local pond.
TBH for me my choice is not related to power of the console btu with game from first party and in this domain Sony is far ahead. Seeing for example last gen games as TLOU2 or Ghost of tsushima on a 1.84 (and 4.3) Tflop console that's amazing.
But talking about tech is also facinating. And we does not forget that for the moment only Microsoft hardcore fanboys are the first to spread to downplay the PS5 and only them (they also created a discord for this).
All this talk about one being not as powerful or this bottle neck etc, i personall think many will find it hard to beat Horizon zero dawn 2 this generation in eye candy department.

+ if that is the low Standard, then let the good times roll.