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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Killer Sakoman

Killer Sakoman

Member
Krisprolls said:
I'm not sure why some people here are so focused on RDNA v1 / v2 / v3.

Let's face it, you don't understand at all what any of this means, you're not devs so why bother ?

If one console doesn't have the same exact feature set, it means they probably have a similar custom solution with another name. It doesn't matter how it's named.

You shouldn't care about that at all, stop thinking you're devs when you don't even understand the way CPU and GPU work. We had tons of people here not even understanding how PS5 variable frequency works ffs, so forget about understanding RDNA lol

Just comment about games and hardware features you like, that's what you can understand.
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We saw the games already. It's not like the console with higher RDNA version will play games at 16K with Path tracing on, but people will argue til the end of times. 🤣
 
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MrS

MrS

Banned
DonJorginho said:
Thanks for the wanking material good sir.
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7FG9lj3.png
 
onesvenus

onesvenus

Member
geordiemp said:
Yes they are using full RDNA2 Architecture and features,.

But the XSX cUs are not RDNA2 from specs, die shots or hot chips block diagram. Is CU a feaure or a hardware item ?
Click to expand...
So your rationale is that when they say RDNA2 architecture they are not talking about hardware? Really?

Maybe I'm crazy but I'd expect an RDNA2 architecture to use RDNA2 CUs and not RDNA1 CUs
 
Garani

Garani

Member
MarkMe2525 said:
We aren't debating whether their marketing is effective or not. It is the idea that their games aren't going to look better in the future, compared to what has been shown so far, and how "embarrassing" it is. My stance is, no one being honest would make that assumption in the first place.
Click to expand...

Ok, let's say that you are right and I am wrong. Let's see what happened with PS4 vs XBOne: PS4 got the lead in sales. MS tried to change direction with the XBoneX, which is superior to the PS4Pro. End result? Microsoft never recovered and Sony won hands down.

For this reason I tell you that it's meaningless the future performance: you have to bring home the core base now so that you can build on that. At the moment Microsoft doesn't have anything impressive to show, other than some marketing material.

Riky said:
I don't think R&C is at launch either, is it even this year? The biggest selling game will be Black Ops Cold War, that has ray tracing on both and will be there.

More importantly neither console will actually be on shelves at launch because they are both sold out.

By the time you can actually buy either console we will have seen the likes of Watch Dogs, Assassin's Creed and Call of Duty on both and will know how both versions perform.
Click to expand...

1) R&C is launch window. Basically you'll see it soon enough.
2) XSS is still available right this moment for pre-order. And I assure you that we will see both consoles in shops during XMas time: no one wants to miss XMas sales.
3) About CoD: we do know how it will look like on PS5, we still have to see WG, AC and CoD running on XSX.

The core user base is made right now, and Sony has it in the bag at this point. Recovering from this position will be a difficult job for MS.
 
MarkMe2525

MarkMe2525

Member
Garani said:
Ok, let's say that you are right and I am wrong. Let's see what happened with PS4 vs XBOne: PS4 got the lead in sales. MS tried to change direction with the XBoneX, which is superior to the PS4Pro. End result? Microsoft never recovered and Sony won hands down.

For this reason I tell you that it's meaningless the future performance: you have to bring home the core base now so that you can build on that. At the moment Microsoft doesn't have anything impressive to show, other than some marketing material.



1) R&C is launch window. Basically you'll see it soon enough.
2) XSS is still available right this moment for pre-order. And I assure you that we will see both consoles in shops during XMas time: no one wants to miss XMas sales.
3) About CoD: we do know how it will look like on PS5, we still have to see WG, AC and CoD running on XSX.

The core user base is made right now, and Sony has it in the bag at this point. Recovering from this position will be a difficult job for MS.
Click to expand...
So am I supposed to just going to act like that this has anything to do with your original statement? If you are original claim was Sony has an advantage by having more games ready for launch, then I would have agreed with you, but here we are.
 
Garani

Garani

Member
MarkMe2525 said:
So am I supposed to just going to act like that this has anything to do with your original statement? If you are original claim was Sony has an advantage by having more games ready for launch, then I would have agreed with you, but here we are.
Click to expand...

Make what ever you want with it, I am just an old fart after all. But yeah: better games drive sells that drive market advantage, and so on, etc. etc. We saw that with the 360 vs PS3. Sony had a fucking hard time to reach 360 and take over.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
onesvenus said:
So your rationale is that when they say RDNA2 architecture they are not talking about hardware? Really?

Maybe I'm crazy but I'd expect an RDNA2 architecture to use RDNA2 CUs and not RDNA1 CUs
Click to expand...

Well maybe your right, maybe XSX does have variable clocks, frequencies at 2.2 Ghz and special frequency gating per WGP so every CU can operate at its own freqency to maximise throughput.

It was phil lying all along, the XSX clocks are not sustained and fixed, they are just like ps5 and PC. I was dreaming all along.

Phil said they did not need higher clocks as 12 TF was enough - he omited that without freqency gating of RDNA2 and variable clocks you cant do 2.2 Ghz

mmmm, its all a bit lolly....

Oh /s
 
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dimaveshkin

dimaveshkin

Member
sircaw

sircaw

Banned
geordiemp said:
Well maybe your right, maybe XSX does have variable clocks, freqjencies at 2.2 Ghz and special frequency gaing per WGP so evefy CU can operateat its own freqency to maximise throughput.

It was phil lying all along, the XSX clocks are not sustained.

Pgil said they did not need higher clocks as 12 TF was enough - he omited that without freqency gating of RDNA2 and variable clocks you cant do 2.2 Ghz

mmmm
Click to expand...

You just melted my mind, i think tomorrow calls for a pizza, Hawaiian with etc cheese.
 
onesvenus

onesvenus

Member
geordiemp said:
Well maybe your right, maybe XSX does have variable clocks, frequencies at 2.2 Ghz and special frequency gaing per WGP so every CU can operate at its own freqency to maximise throughput.

It was phil lying all along, the XSX clocks are not sustained and fixed, they are just like ps5 and PC. I was dreaming all along.

Phil said they did not need higher clocks as 12 TF was enough - he omited that without freqency gating of RDNA2 and variable clocks you cant do 2.2 Ghz

mmmm
Click to expand...
You haven't answered my questions. How can an architecture with RDNA CUs be considered "full RDNA2"? Why did Microsoft wait for RDNA2 to be finished to then choose to use RDNA CUs?

As far as I know AMD hasn't defined what makes an architecture RDNA2 or not. You think that it's the per CU frequency modulation and the infinity cache although, somehow, having RDNA CUs is also an option. That or you are saying that Microsoft is lying when they say they have a RDNA2 architecture.
 
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Yoboman

Yoboman

Member
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
onesvenus said:
You haven't answered my questions. How can architecture with RDNA CUs be considered "full RDNA2"? Why did Microsoft wait for RDNA2 to be finished to then choose to use RDNA CUs?

As far as I know AMD hasn't defined what makes an architecture RDNA2 or not. You think that it's the per CU frequency modulation and the infinity cache although, somehow, having RDNA CUs is also an option. That or you are saying that Microsoft is lying when they say they have a RDNA2 architecture.
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as RDNA2 really, its just a bucket of hardware and logic that console developers choose from

Infinity cache was too expensive for both consoles.

Sony went fast and narrow, paid extra for fast CU design and likely takes up a bit of per CU die space for 40 CU. To add more cU to the fast deisgn would of made a too expensive console

MS went with more CU and chose not to do the fast variable frequencies. To do both would of been a bigger die again for frequenciy controls etc and even more expensive console.

Also MS designed same board for servers, I guess variable frequencies and shifting power around the die would not be desirable for running 4 different games on chip (My guess). So fast GHz and variable CU did not meet their needs

2 different methods, both has benefits and drawbacks, Sony needed a bigger console and more cooling to do what they did but it has hidden benefits, MS have more TF, they cancel...

PCs dont matter, they have 2 or 3 fans just for the GPU and power in abundance and have more budget.

2 different ways for consoles to get to the same point. Ho hum
 
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sircaw

sircaw

Banned
geordiemp said:
Also in the Xbox thraed they are calling me saying XSX has VRS only so I asked why Guerrilla is using it, cant make that shit up lol


vWVdHjw.png


Hf31DOs.png
Click to expand...

yer i saw, i am kinda having a giggle, some of the Xbox boys are going around like they think they won something.

They do realize that the rdna2 is standardized and mark cerny removed parts of it that he did not like and added his own custom solutions.

That means he improved on it,

Kinda shows why those list of games from Ubisoft and dirt are showing the same setting even though the ps5 is meant to be on paper the lower specced machine.

I don't think it has actually come home to roost for a lot of them yet.

I think its been a hard couple of days for a lot of them, with the universal praise for the controller and Astrobot looking so awesome.

And Sony still has so many games still to come.
 
W

Werewolfgrandma

Banned
Garani said:
What I am amazed about, is if that's the really best that XSX can deliver, and how con PS5 deliver a better result then XSX. Because if things stay as they are today, it's kinda embarassing to boast all that power and then have what we have seen.

Even if there is parity between multiplat, it would be pretty embarassing for XSX.
Click to expand...
You have been asked a bunch of times how you got to this conclusion and failed to answer. I'm gonna ask again anyway.

kyliethicc said:
I only have a PS4 (and Switch) no PC sorry. But I assume sound is same across all. I'll plug them into my phone to compare, too.
Click to expand...
Compare to what?
geordiemp said:
There is no such thing as RDNA2 really, its just a bucket of hardware and logic that console developers choose from

Infinity cache was too expensive for both consoles.

Sony went fast and narrow, paid extra for fast CU design and likely takes up a bit of per CU die space for 40 CU. To add more cU to the fast deisgn would of made a too expensive console

MS went with more CU and chose not to do the fast variable frequencies. To do both would of been a bigger die again for frequenciy controls etc and even more expensive console.

2 different methods, bioth has benefits and drawbacks, Sony needed a bigger console and more cooling to do what they did,

PCs dont matter, they have 2 or 3 fans just for the GPU and power in abundance and have more budget.

2 different ways for consoles to get to the same point. Ho hum
Click to expand...
What's the argument?
 
W

Werewolfgrandma

Banned
sircaw said:
yer i saw, i am kinda having a giggle, some of the Xbox boys are going around like they think they won something.

They do realize that the rdna2 is standardized and mark cerny removed parts of it that he did not like and added his own custom solutions.

That means he improved on it,
Click to expand...
No it doesn't
 
Nowcry

Nowcry

Member
579976-amd-radeon-6000-series-die-front-1260x1080.png



















h0wszmu74or51.png


579976-hardware-accelerated-raytracing-1920x500.jpg





I don't really understand what they won?

They have just confirmed that AMD GPUs have infinity cache, which they do not have in SX.
That AMD GPUs have high frequencies that SX don't.
AMD desing have not made more than 10 CU per shader array a different SX shader array with 14/16
AMD has RT new hardware inside CUs.
And that the CU or DCU have variable clocks and SX dont.

Did they just tell you that the SX GPU is nothing like the design that AMD has and that in return they have VRS, Mesh Shaders that the opposite console will have the same with its name?

Something tells me that they have not understood what they have been taught. You have just been taught that the MS GPU lacks pretty much everything you have learned today.

Nor do I say that PS5 has it, but of course we already know that SX does not.
 
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MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
Nowcry said:
579976-amd-radeon-6000-series-die-front-1260x1080.png



















h0wszmu74or51.png


579976-hardware-accelerated-raytracing-1920x500.jpg





I don't really understand what they won?

They have just confirmed that AMD GPUs have infinity cache, which they do not have in SX.
That AMD GPUs have high frequencies that SX don't.
AMD desing have not made more than 10 CU per shader array a different SX shader array with 14/16
AMD has RT new hardware inside CUs.
And that the CU or DCU have variable clocks and SX dont.

Did they just tell you that the SX GPU is nothing like the design that AMD has and that in return they have VRS, Mesh Shaders that the opposite console will have the same with its name?

Something tells me that they have not understood what they have been taught. You have just been taught that the MS GPU lacks pretty much everything you have learned today.

Nor do I say that PS5 has it, but of course we already know that SX does not.
Click to expand...

Long story short: custom RDNA2.

Basically Microsofts GPUs will not match AMDs exactly due to the customizations that they did.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
Nowcry said:
579976-amd-radeon-6000-series-die-front-1260x1080.png



















h0wszmu74or51.png


579976-hardware-accelerated-raytracing-1920x500.jpg





I don't really understand what they won?

They have just confirmed that AMD GPUs have infinity cache, which they do not have in SX.
That AMD GPUs have high frequencies that SX don't.
AMD desing have not made more than 10 CU per shader array a different SX shader array with 14/16
AMD has RT new hardware inside CUs.
And that the CU or DCU have variable clocks and SX dont.

Did they just tell you that the SX GPU is nothing like the design that AMD has and that in return they have VRS, Mesh Shaders that the opposite console will have the same with its name?

Something tells me that they have not understood what they have been taught. You have just been taught that the MS GPU lacks pretty much everything you have learned today.

Nor do I say that PS5 has it, but of course we already know that SX does not.
Click to expand...

The problem is people are transfixed on functions and marketing terms, things like VRS take up a tiny bit of the die, miniscule.

Most of the die is the GPU Cu shaders, and special effort went into designing a variable frequency hgh performance CU part.

But XSX has more of them and are slower.

They may achieve the same goal by differing means, so ho hum. Sonys route in adoptining the 2.23 Ghz route is more riskier for sure if it did not pay off, MS route with more CUs was low risk if you think about it.

All done now though.
 
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DeadOblivion78

DeadOblivion78

Member
geordiemp said:
There is no such thing as RDNA2 really, its just a bucket of hardware and logic that console developers choose from

Infinity cache was too expensive for both consoles.

Sony went fast and narrow, paid extra for fast CU design and likely takes up a bit of per CU die space for 40 CU. To add more cU to the fast deisgn would of made a too expensive console

MS went with more CU and chose not to do the fast variable frequencies. To do both would of been a bigger die again for frequenciy controls etc and even more expensive console.

Also MS designed same board for servers, I guess variable frequencies and shifting power around the die would not be desirable for running 4 different games on chip (My guess). So fast GHz and variable CU did not meet their needs

2 different methods, both has benefits and drawbacks, Sony needed a bigger console and more cooling to do what they did but it has hidden benefits, MS have more TF, they cancel...

PCs dont matter, they have 2 or 3 fans just for the GPU and power in abundance and have more budget.

2 different ways for consoles to get to the same point. Ho hum
Click to expand...
So the way I'm interpreting this for me so that I can understand this is that RDNA2 is like Amazon. All of the features of RDNA2 is like the Amazon Basic's lineup and Xbox and PlayStation looked at all the features and picked and choose what goes in their respective box.
 
Nowcry

Nowcry

Member
geordiemp said:
The problem is people are transfixed on functions and marketing terms, things like VRS take up a tiny bit of the die, miniscule.

Most of the die is the GPU Cu shaders, and special effort wnet into deisgning a varaibel frequency hgh performance CU part.

But XSX has more of them and are slower.

They may achieve the same goal by differing means, so ho hum. Sonys route in adoptining the 2.23 Ghz route is more riskier for sure if it did not pay off, MS route with more CUs was low risk if you think about it.

All done now though.
Click to expand...


However UE5 was made on PS5 and I think nanite was their goal. A small and fast GPU was what they were looking for as it is beneficial for nanite possibly.

It's certainly a riskier bet but I think it worked well.
 
Garani

Garani

Member
Werewolfgrandma said:
Nope just double checked. You talked marketing. Intelligently as well. So how can an intelligent person possibly come to that conclusion.
Click to expand...
Please, read back my earlier statement and just count all the "if"s. We know that XSX has been marketed as the most powerful, which on paper seems correct. But "if" the games stay as they have been show, or perform at parity, someone has to explay why a more powerful box is just as good as a less powerful one.

Is my statement more clear now?
 
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