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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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XinTniX

XinTniX

Neo Member
martino said:
you can't look into history to have conclusion on a the scenario where the two are serious about power and launching sma time because it doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Well, we'll see, but this seems to be what is just happening once again, several rumors point to almost twins systems, but with a Huge advantage on SSD for Sony.

CPUs (almost identical)
GPU (almost identical)
RAM (almost identical)
SSD 2x faster to PS5? (It seems where Sony know-how is making a difference this time)

This scenario suggests both machines at the same price. And when this happened = huge advantage for Sony console in some component.
 
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JLB

JLB

Banned
Ill state the obvious but... how many hardware engineers with xp designing APUs are around here? close to zero? we should be really aware that any prediction based on diffuse, uncorroborated data will almost in any case bring to wrong conclusions.
I understand that the “x more powerful that y” game is kinda fun, but without even knowing which types of customizations these chips will have in place, its objectively impossible to figure.
 
Gavin Stevens

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
ANIMAL1975 said:
Thanks mate, but what about the fact that we will be able to experience the 3D audio goodness on our normal TV speakers and year phones? Everyone will have it without needing to buy expensive hardware, that's cool.
Click to expand...

You know you can already do that, right? You don’t need expensive kit, you just need to know what you’re doing and if so
make something standard. You don’t need the equivalent of RT cores to get this working on a phone or whatever, it will work on whatever, wherever.

Think about it for a logical second. The actual delivery system is exactly the same. Same tv speakers. Same head phones.

The idea is that you have positional cross fading and occlusion based reflection so that depending on where you are, the sound will come from the right angle. Walls will occlude and bounce the sound away, and appear to come from a different emitter location.

All of that is based on how the sound info is parsed in the 3d space. None of it requires additional hardware, as it’s computation requirements are actually quite low.

The issue comes from most engines/developers etc not giving a toss about sound because you can’t sell sound in a picture. So they don’t care.

This is one of those things people do to say “look at us” and yet it’s not needed for additional decoding hardware. It helps, sure, but it’s not actually needed, it’s not required.

It’s like years ago open al was something you had on cards and now all the comparisons are done on the cpu. It’s just how it works.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Coulomb_Barrier said:
I never thought the lowly console would match SSD speeds in my year old PC with its m.2 NVMe SSD drive. I'm a fully paid up member of the PC Master Race but what will we say when consoles have faster loading? It's the worst nightmare for PC elitism, certainly in this aspect.

It's some leap to go from 5400rpm HDD to SSD let alone HDD to NVMe SSD. But they've gone a step further than that even and the SSD looks like being faster than desktop NVMe drives you can buy because of its integration with the system as a whole (GPU, CPU cores and memory).

I said couple years ago, next gen consoles have to punch above their weight by leveraging advantages where PCs, being multi-purpose machines, can't assail them. So it's smart on the console engineers to identify areas like total system/software integration of the hardware/OS to speed up loading inside and out of playing.

When I want to play RDR2 on PC last night, my desktop loads in about 9 seconds, super fast. But then the Rockstar launcher takes about 25 secs to load. Then the game loads after about 30 seconds. Pain in the barse.
Click to expand...

This guy "gets" it. And it's not just about game loading, but also asset streaming from the SSD (in the same way Star Citizen is currently doing it in PCs).
 
Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
ethomaz said:
Yeap you have VRR now.
Just let any framerate that ended in dev, tells gamers to turn VRR on and call a day.
Games dipping between 30-50fps will all feels 60fps.

My biggest fear... devs stop to optimize to console platform why now they have other shit tools to hide their atrocious framerate dips.
Click to expand...

Right, because everyone will have VRR compatible TV sets/monitors right out of the gate, won't they?
 
Niked

Niked

Member
BGs said:
I will not give any numerical data, and I will explain the reason.

As you will understand, it is not information I can give. Not even any developer with two front fingers will tell you, it would mean being fired automatically and facing possible legal consequences. If a developer gives you that information, it's not very smart. On the other hand, when I registered, I wanted to make it very clear in my presentation message that I did not come here to give information that could commit me or someone.

Likewise, it is true that it doesn't matter what I can tell you, I mean that I would not get you out of doubt, because the information I may have is current. That is, it is not the definitive one (which does not mean that there is no such definitive information, I simply do not know it).

What I can say is that you are making films of biblical proportions and based on data that, if true, were 1 year ago in a given circumstance. But do you really believe that real data is filtered? And I understand that this is because of the lack of information, and if there is no information, then people make it up based on personal interests. And you have to understand that many people are interested in generating interest and debate, for example by publishing something and deleting it at the moment. Guys, we already have an age to know how this works.

First, what TF? The TF of Marketing? Or the effective TF? I understand that people need to know (and I need to explain, but I have to bite my nails) but what you really should care to know is that, in practice, one could have more TF than the other and give less performance. You should think less about TF and think more about machine balance.

This generation will NOT be the generation of the visual difference that makes you decide what to buy. It will be the generation of the games. Yes, one will be faster than another (but you will not notice it in practice). One will load the screen in 10 seconds and the other in 7 seconds. One will have a better sound than the other. One will run the game at 60fps and the other ... too. What will really matter will be the quality that development studies can achieve with their time and budget.

What you will have to do this generation is to think what game you want and what platform it is on. And if it is for multiplatform games, buy the cheapest one or where you have more friends, because you will not notice the difference (yes, there are people who are able to perceive a laser pointer on the moon, and others like to play 30cm from the TV trying to find out if the 4K is native or scaled by switching quickly between different video inputs to find out the difference to justify their purchase, but those people are not happy. Fortunately, those people will have it very difficult in the next generation... in multiplatform games).

(And yes, PC graphics cards will always be better. And also much more expensive and less exploited. What happens is that NOT all games are on PC. For those who have forgotten, this is the key, the games).

The new consoles will not disappoint. Not me, at least.

giphy.gif

I'm sorry, I don't have more time for now.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
Well written and a great insights. This is high value and contribution!! ❤️

Also, you just started a small hype for PSVR2! ❤️ Could you elaborate more on this? Also the new controller and ray trace audio. Please :)
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
ethomaz said:
Yeap you have VRR now.
Just let any framerate that ended in dev, tells gamers to turn VRR on and call a day.
Games dipping between 30-50fps will all feels 60fps.

My biggest fear... devs stop to optimize to console platform why now they have other shit tools to hide their atrocious framerate dips.
Click to expand...

Nah, they will just have an unlocked option for those who have VRR compatibility.

The adoption number is too low to not continue to optimize at a locked or as close to framerate.
 
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ANIMAL1975

ANIMAL1975

Member
o'dium said:
You know you can already do that, right? You don’t need expensive kit, you just need to know what you’re doing and if so
make something standard. You don’t need the equivalent of RT cores to get this working on a phone or whatever, it will work on whatever, wherever.

Think about it for a logical second. The actual delivery system is exactly the same. Same tv speakers. Same head phones.

The idea is that you have positional cross fading and occlusion based reflection so that depending on where you are, the sound will come from the right angle. Walls will occlude and bounce the sound away, and appear to come from a different emitter location.

All of that is based on how the sound info is parsed in the 3d space. None of it requires additional hardware, as it’s computation requirements are actually quite low.

The issue comes from most engines/developers etc not giving a toss about sound because you can’t sell sound in a picture. So they don’t care.

This is one of those things people do to say “look at us” and yet it’s not needed for additional decoding hardware. It helps, sure, but it’s not actually needed, it’s not required.

It’s like years ago open al was something you had on cards and now all the comparisons are done on the cpu. It’s just how it works.
Click to expand...
Actually i didn't knew that. Thought it was required to have a 3D sound speakers or headphones, thanks. So, do you think that Cerny is pushing it as a PS5 standpoint because it's going to be implemented like checkerboard on ps4? I mean with the same 'ease to use' for the devs, something like turning a switch in the software side?
 
S

sinnergy

Member
If leaks are true and Series X has. 1850 Mhz GPU and everyone here was like the faster GPU clock was better at Ray tracing ... it means MS has the edge !!!! ??? Also faster CPU?? going by the latest leak ...
 
S

sinnergy

Member
ANIMAL1975 said:
Actually i didn't knew that. Thought it was required to have a 3D sound speakers or headphones, thanks. So, do you think that Cerny is pushing it as a PS5 standpoint because it's going to be implemented like checkerboard on ps4? I mean with the same 'ease to use' for the devs, something like turning a switch in the software side?
Click to expand...
You need a head phone or DTS x / atmos setup , I invested in Atmos last year because X already outputs directional object based sound ... Sim games make good use of atmos already , movies also but depends on how the studio masters , some games / movies are okay , while others sound amazing / next gen.
 
Gavin Stevens

Gavin Stevens

Formerly 'o'dium'
ANIMAL1975 said:
Actually i didn't knew that. Thought it was required to have a 3D sound speakers or headphones, thanks. So, do you think that Cerny is pushing it as a PS5 standpoint because it's going to be implemented like checkerboard on ps4? I mean with the same 'ease to use' for the devs, something like turning a switch in the software side?
Click to expand...

Oh absolutely. It’s a standard and it’s something that they have made easy to use for anybody on their platform, it’s as simple as that. It’s great that anybody is giving a shit about sound, at all, because as I said... you can’t “sell” sound. People tend to not care about it, so it always makes me happy when a game, dev or whatever puts focus on it.

But its another thing that can be done, if you want, without dedicated hardware. It’s not a PlayStation exclusive, more so they have made it so it’s stupid not to do it and provided the tools and hardware to make it a standard feature.
 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Member
martino said:
you can't look into history to have conclusion on a the scenario where the two are serious about power and launching sma time because it doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Not only that, but Sony isn't the hardware powerhouse they were back in the '80s or '90s either. PlayStation is the closest electronic product they have to a Walkman or Trinitron in terms of commanding industry presence. Otherwise they make good products but nothing noteworthy or that competitors don't do better.

And implying MS doesn't have hardware chops is kinda silly; they're doing some pretty innovative stuff with the Surface line and the Surface and Xbox divisions have some crossover (how much, I don't know, but there's some leveraging of assets going on there obviously). Just going by CES, I'd say companies like Samsung, Alienware etc. are doing more innovative and tech-pushing things in the consumer electronics market than Sony atm.

That car was a nice surprise though
 
DJ12

DJ12

Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
Can you explain why there haven't been any GPU benchmark testings uncovered through database mining yet, which substantiate this supposed performance edge for PS5 in its current state?

At this point, I want some evidence of hard data. No hard data, no sell. But I might keep browsing ;)
Click to expand...
Could be the incompetent intern got sacked, or further revisions of the chip are tested using playstation hardware. Come on, wanting it to be true doesn't mean you have to be blinkered to the possibilities it appearing in a windows based database was a mistake.
Insane Metal said:
Click to expand...

Used to like that's guys videos, but he seems very needy lol. Seems to have a good source within AMD though.
gamechanger87 said:
Foxy = Tidux.

Stop posting their stuff
Click to expand...
Come on now, if xbots are allowed to use TImDog, Dealer and DrunkCat (amongst others) PS fans can use these two jokers.

It's only fair.
 
martino

martino

Member
Reindeer said:
And people think AMD cannot do the same to Nvidia. AMD is already beating Nvidia in midrange segment, now they just have to do the same for high end.

They are not that far off
Click to expand...


they compete with a refresh design using a new architecture and a node advantage.
nvidia 3xxx will not be intel 9xxx and 10xxx
but amd seems to have also rebuilt a better image to help them.
 
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xPikYx

xPikYx

Member
BGs said:
Quickly.

There is nothing more to add than what has been said by any developer who has commented. At the beginning of the year PS5 was still the one that offered the best performance. I don't know if that has changed with the new Devkits, I don't have access to that information at this time and personally I think that (theoretically) I won't have physical access until early summer, for my part. And I don't like to talk about what I haven't personally experienced. I can say that he says "X" and he says "Y", but since the opinion is so different I prefer not to internalize this information.

If you want I invent data, or if you want I tell you a number ... 13.8 (and I start the speculative machinery). But I don't think it's right.

Now what will not let you sleep will be to think if I have given you a false number ... or maybe not (just kidding).

Do you understand where I want to go? (I don't know if this expression is used in English).

Now I really have to go, until next time.
Click to expand...
I really would like to ask you if what we have seen in the hellblade2 trailer is actually achievable on next gen consoles in terms of graphic or it is just a show off and game will look far downgraded from that
 
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Reindeer

Reindeer

Member
martino said:
they compete with a refresh design using a new architecture and a node advantage.
nvidia 3xxx will not be intel 9xxx and 10xxx
but amd seems to have also rebuilt a better image to help them.
Click to expand...
Intel completely dropped the ball and stagnated so taking them down was a lot easier yes. Taking down Nvidia might not be as easy, but AMD don't have to destroy them performance wise, they just have to be close enough or on level terms and beat them with their pricing and the mindshare will start shifting.
 
Reindeer

Reindeer

Member
JLB said:
wont happen until ps6 and x xbox series whatever
Click to expand...
Will depend on SSD adoption. Every PC and Laptop sold today has an SSD. They are also getting cheaper and people can easily upgrade even if their PC/laptop didn't originally have one. I think in 2-3 years SSDs should be common enough that devs can start building games for them from ground up. Maybe even sooner.
 
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Elysion

Elysion

Banned
Assuming the rumors about Sony releasing their future games on PC are true, it’s kind of weird that Sony puts so much emphasis on its super-fast SSD, something which could differentiate the PS5 not only from the XSex, but even from most PCs, only to then decide to put their games on PC anyway, where their games will have to be made with slower SSDs and even normal HDDs in mind.

If that was their plan, they might as well have just put a slower and cheaper SSD in the PS5 and spent more of their BoM on CUs or RAM instead.
 
martino

martino

Member
Reindeer said:
Intel completely dropped the ball and stagnated so taking them down was a lot easier yes. Taking down Nvidia might not be as easy, but AMD don't have to destroy them performance wise, they just have to be close enough or on level terms and beat them with their pricing and the mindshare will start shifting.
Click to expand...

i'm not really not satisfy on their price positioning in regard of their die sizes.
I know the cost is higher for 7nm but still.
5700 is 251 and 2060 is 440.
 
B

Brudda26

Member
Cant remember off the top of my head but what revision was oberon in the 2019 June test github leak? The most current revision that has been found is on E or F9 (no tests found for these revisions) I think. If the test was A0 then that is a incredibly early revision and definitely not the final chip.
 
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VFXVeteran

VFXVeteran

Banned
Elysion said:
Assuming the rumors about Sony releasing their future games on PC are true, it’s kind of weird that Sony puts so much emphasis on its super-fast SSD, something which could differentiate the PS5 not only from the XSex, but even from most PCs, only to then decide to put their games on PC anyway, where their games will have to be made with slower SSDs and even normal HDDs in mind.

If that was their plan, they might as well have just put a slower and cheaper SSD in the PS5 and spent more of their BoM on CUs or RAM instead.
Click to expand...

You guys are getting too hung up on this SSD speed deal.

First of all, ask yourself what kind of trickery would having a fast SSD contribute to a game's graphics system aside from load times and streaming of assets.

Secondly, you can always buy enough RAM to install the entire game in system RAM with a PC (i.e. RAMdisk) thereby skipping the bandwidth restraints from SSD to main RAM.

A videogame is simply not going to be limited by the speed of the SSD by the way you guys are describing how it would affect a slower IO configuration. Most games in SP mode load the levels in system RAM anyway. It would only be the streaming code (which could be made to check the HDD bandwidth to system RAM before loading up a level). Don't think that there is a direct correlation of SSD speed to special FX, or more shadows, etc.. Again, one has nothing to do with the other.
 
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JLB

JLB

Banned
Reindeer said:
Will depend on SSD adoption. Every PC and Laptop sold today has an SSD. They are also getting cheaper and people can easily upgrade even if their PC/laptop didn't originally have one. I think in 2-3 years SSDs should be common enough that devs can start building games for them from ground up. Maybe even sooner.
Click to expand...

Maybe, although I think it's a really optimistic prediction. Especially considering that it would required modern ssds, so even users with current gen ssds would need to move on.
 
Reindeer

Reindeer

Member
JLB said:
Maybe, although I think it's a really optimistic prediction. Especially considering that it would required modern ssds, so even users with current gen ssds would need to move on.
Click to expand...
No they wouldn't, they would just get slightly less performance on their SSD, but not such a big difference that they would need to buy a whole new SSD.
 
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