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[nib95]

Haha. Nib commenting on these matters is always fun.

He posted vids as examples of why PCars looks "overall" better, I responded and compared it with a video of Driveclub to add credit to my point. The latter being a game which is also unfinished by the way. Both games are currently in BETA and will see improvements before release.

Instead of making drive by snipes, why not post some footage or add something of merit to the discussion?

 

[Durante]

The lack of anti-aliasing is really a damn shame. I rerendered a few scenes with AA, and it looks so much better.

You can play it like that with PtBi -- and the right hardware

Anyway, I feel like most of the Project Cars media posted in this thread is either outdated or just plain bad, so here are some screenshots from our screenshot thread:

 

[nib95]

like Others have said, though, that Pcars video is OLD


this is a more recent build of that track and the difference in terms of trackside detail is huge. Lighting is also a lot better, but that might be because different TOD

http://youtu.be/fcC7MP1EC7E

i still think DC environments look more detailed but this video shows a much smaller difference

Here's the video you've posted doubled up. Difference is still stark.

http://youtubedoubler.com/cveV

 

[wapplew]

Here's the video you've posted doubled up. Difference is still stark.

http://youtubedoubler.com/cveV

Driveclub lighting and environment blend together really well, it's like the environment cast some indirect greenish light on the car.
PCar feel like it filmed with everyday camera, Driveclub is something for Cinema. Both realistic in it's own way just different approach

 

[DemonCleaner]

The best environments have NFS Rivals.

holy cow crydude. you really lost it now, didn't you?

 

[Cygnus]

You can play it like that with PtBi -- and the right hardware

Anyway, I feel like most of the Project Cars media posted in this thread is either outdated or just plain bad, so here are some screenshots from our screenshot thread:
]

Very nice, are they all downsampled? the IQ is amazing.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Incredible how distant from DC's lighting F5 is. Those webm's let it clear that T10 needs to improve it asap.

Indeed, not to mention its dynamic.

However the area in which Driveclub wipes the floor with every other racer is its background detail. Its insane and how now shown how important backgrounds are in racing games.

 

[Durante]

Very nice, are they all downsampled? the IQ is amazing.

I just took them from the PC screenshot thread, but I think most of them are rendered at 4k.

 

[KKRT00]

holy cow crydude. you really lost it now, didn't you?

It has the highest quality assets from all games mentioned, so whats really strange about that?
It lacks in lighting department, but assets are high fidelity in environments.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Indeed, not to mention its dynamic.

However the area in which Driveclub wipes the floor with every other racer is its background detail. Its insane and how now shown how important backgrounds are in racing games.

They aren't important though.

The track layout is important in racing games. The rest is just fluff.

 

[nib95]

It has the highest quality assets from all games mentioned, so whats really strange about that?
It lacks in lighting department, but assets are high fidelity in environments.

Lol, no it doesn't. It doesn't even take someone well versed in graphics tech to see as much. In terms of tree, foliage, mountain and general environmental geometry, textures on the tree's, mountains and so on, even the quality of the vehicle models themselves, there's just no comparison.

 

[Dilly]

He posted vids as examples of why PCars looks "overall" better, I responded and compared it with a video of Driveclub to add credit to my point. The latter being a game which is also unfinished by the way. Both games are currently in BETA and will see improvements before release.

Instead of making drive by snipes, why not post some footage or add something of merit to the discussion?

pCARS is almost making the transition from pre-alpha to alpha phase. Not beta.

 

[SolidSnakex]

They aren't important though.

The track layout is important in racing games. The rest is just fluff.

This is a thread that's about visuals of racing games, so background detail absolutely does matter a lot.

 

[nib95]

pCARS is almost in Alpha phase. Not beta.

Fair enough. To be honest I'm not even sure if DriveClub is in BETA yet either. I just assumed they'd both be in BETA by now based on release schedules. Though I think PCars may be releasing a month or two later than DriveClub, so there's that.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

This is a thread that's about visuals of racing games, so background detail absolutely does matter a lot.

If your spending your time looking at the backdrop it's a failure of a racing game.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If your spending your time looking at the backdrop it's a failure of a racing game.

That's not the point. You're saying that detailed environments don't matter in a thread that's specifically about graphics. Why in the world wouldn't background detail matter? If you want to make a thread about which is the best racing game then background detail wouldn't matter. But that's not what this thread is about. It's about graphics. And background detail is obviously part of graphics.

 

[nib95]

If your spending your time looking at the backdrop it's a failure of a racing game.

I think one of the benefits of more lax and less punishing driving mechanics in arcade racers is so you can do a bit of both. Admire the gorgeous scenery and enjoy some quality racing too. Hell, taking your eyes off the road momentarily to admire beautiful scenery isn't exactly an alien thing to do in any racing game...

 

[DemonCleaner]

the problem with posting stills of car models is that you really can't get a clue of how the paint shading behaves in changing lighting conditions and viewing angles. an accurate simualtion would give you a good impression of depth in motion as there is a big portion of scattering and diffracting light inside the paint. that does not only apply to paint but all materials. but in car paint the difference is particularly striking. so the only fair way to compare those aspects would be in filmed form.

 

[KKRT00]

You can keep quoting that one bad screen grab from an obviously old build, and ignoring all the new gameplay vids if you like.

First of all, they don't have the same lighting model. DriveClub features full dynamic global illumination for a start. There's also other things like volumetric light affected clouds, physics based foliage and tree's which have their own self shadowing etc, better lighting from tertiary light sources, better reflections on vehicles, on windshields, dirt and mud on windshields, fully geometric tree's versus many 2D one's (some are 3D), better rock surface properties and shaders, and just overall far more realism in the look. It's not just down to art, it's mainly down to lighting and overall environmental details and scope. About the only thing I can say PCars has DriveClub topped is overall IQ, that is resolution, anti-aliasing etc (subject to PC hardware). Maybe some (not all) of the textures.

Please stop with this bullshit list.
Better reflections on vehicles?
http://a.pomf.se/dwtyek.webm

Screenshots are from the same preview event that You have all the vids. Stop looking at Youtube videos with tons of motion blur and judging everything from that. Or post small gifs.
Volumetric light affected clouds - its simple shader for rays, its not the first game that does it
Full global illumination? What does it even mean? How complex is it? Where is some technical info? It could really be as good as any game in the past like Far Cry ambient or Crysis 2.
Dirt and mud? Really? Its cheap feature that was in countless of games, in 60hz games on past gen machines in fact.
Foliage and selfshadowing? Look at direct feed screens.

 

[travisbickle]

2D trees in PS4 game? seriously?

Are you talking about the trees to the left? Are you sure those are 2D? With the light and shadow they look like they could be low poly 3D.

 

[nib95]

Please stop with this bullshit list.
Better reflections on vehicles?
http://a.pomf.se/dwtyek.webm

Screenshots are from the same preview event that You have all the vids. Stop looking at Youtube videos with tons of motion blur and judging everything from that. Or post small gifs.
Volumetric light affected clouds - its simple shader for rays, its not the first game that does it
Full global illumination? What does it even mean? How complex is it? Where is some technical info? It could really be as good as any game in the past like Far Cry ambient or Crysis 2.
Dirt and mud? Really? Its cheap feature that was in countless of games, in 60hz games on past gen machines in fact.
Foliage and selfshadowing? Look at direct feed screens.

So basically ignore every single graphically impressive feature because some other game with great graphics may have already done it? Your posts have been ridiculous in this thread so far.

And why are you so insistent on focusing only on one or two bad, clearly old build direct captures to form all your conclusions about the games visuals? Why not watch some of the new footage and see for yourself? You seem to be content doing that for Project Cars and other games.

Also, your webm isn't working for me.

 

[DemonCleaner]

It has the highest quality assets from all games mentioned, so whats really strange about that?
It lacks in lighting department, but assets are high fidelity in environments.

yeah man totally:

sorry but neither does it have the highest quality environmental assets in aspect of geometry, nor in material quality or even sheer asset quantity.
maybe i don't see what you see, so what have i forgotten?

 

[ethomaz]

For now DriveClub holds the best graphics with pCars close... Forza really needs big improvements in graphical to catch the others but it is 60fps so that matters too.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

I think one of the benefits of more lax and less punishing driving mechanics in arcade racers is so you can do a bit of both. Admire the gorgeous scenery and enjoy some quality racing too. Hell, taking your eyes off the road momentarily to admire beautiful scenery isn't exactly an alien thing to do in any racing game...

Yeah I guess you right, I was just downplaying their importance to racing games in general.

 

[Cygnus]

I think one of the benefits of more lax and less punishing driving mechanics in arcade racers is so you can do a bit of both. Admire the gorgeous scenery and enjoy some quality racing too. Hell, taking your eyes off the road momentarily to admire beautiful scenery isn't exactly an alien thing to do in any racing game...

It's harder with all that motion blur though!

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

They aren't important though.

The track layout is important in racing games. The rest is just fluff.

Looks at thread title:
"Next gen racing graphics face off"

Evidently from good Driveclub looks they are very important.

 

[nib95]

Yeah I guess you right, I was just downplaying their importance to racing games in general.

And yet one of the bigger complaints with the GT franchise for many for some time was it's "sterile environments". Pretty environments in racers matter. Sim racers too.

 

[RankoSD]

I'm not sure why NFS is even mentioned in this thread, with crappy lighting and all those color filters applied it looks really bad.

I haven't seen photo realistic pictures from NFS games yet and I probably never will.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

2D trees in PS4 game? seriously?

--------



What? Both have SSR. Both have high quality motion blur, both have similar post processing techniques, both have low res shadows, PCars has higher quality cubemaps [DC is just awful in that department].
Lighting accuracy? How did You even measure that?

DC has much better art and has already finished track in comparison to PCars, but going by DC direct feed shots i would really call environments more rich, because assets are really very low poly. Evolution was definitely smarter with poly budget allocation though.

The best environments have NFS Rivals.

Those people standing on the left :/ not as bad as forza.. but still not good

 

[Rodelero]

Are you talking about the trees to the left? Are you sure those are 2D? With the light and shadow they look like they could be low poly 3D.

They are pretty blatantly 3D to my eyes...

 

[bombshell]

pCARS is almost making the transition from pre-alpha to alpha phase. Not beta.

They are releasing one month apart, whatever arbitrary label the devs want to put on their game's state is not really that important when their release dates are so close.

 

[ethomaz]

They are pretty blatantly 3D to my eyes...

The tree are 3D... I don't know how anybody can say the opposite.

 

[DemonCleaner]

Please stop with this bullshit list.
Better reflections on vehicles?
http://a.pomf.se/dwtyek.webm

man the reflection simulation in DC is made out of three components:
- you have SS reflections of immediate surroundings (at least under the right viewing angle),
- specular reflections of actual light sources (which include nearby cars lights and maybe bounce light

)
- and cubemaps to imitate further surrounding reflections

and you really discredit his point with the example of one rough cubemapreflection under a kind of extreme (as in very near to the reflecting surface) camera position?
have you got a video material of PCs cubemaps under a comparable viewing point?

 

[bombshell]

DriveClub reflections:

http://a.pomf.se/azlkoe.webm

 

[nib95]

man the reflection simulation in DC is made out of three components:
- you have SS reflections of immediate surroundings (at least under the right viewing angle),
- specular reflections of actual light sources (which include nearby cars lights and maybe bounce light

)
- and cubemaps to imitate further surrounding reflections

and you really discredit his point with the example of one rough cubemapreflection under a kind of extreme (as in very near to the reflecting surface) camera position?
have you got a video material of PCs cubemaps under a comparable viewing point?

I saw the reflection of a reflection of a side mirror reflect on the body of a car in DriveClub...That is bananas...

 

[fresquito]

I like how people talk about graphics, binding them to the things their game does best, ignoring all the rest. So enviroments look prettier in one game? That game has the best graphics, ignore everything else.

What about resolution? What about framerate? what about AA? what about texture detail? Nah, enviroments are better, thus the game has better graphics. Why? Just because.

And BTW, DC doesn't have more advanced lighting than pCARS. It's better toned now, but the tech isn't better. pCARS is still tweaking the lighting, not the tech, but the tones. It's what gives a life-like image. For reference, check the AI lights in DC, tell me they work real time, like the player's do. Do they? No, they don't. Many of the effects are baked, it's easy to see. Is it the same for pCARS. No, in pCARS every light for every car works the same, be it AI or not. So, please, stop claiming the lighting in DC is far better, when it is not. You could perfectly tell: it looks more real, that's ok. But the tech is not better.

If DC wasn't exclusive, all the people supporting it wouldn't be so adamant about it. You want to defend your 400€ machine and believe that it sports a better looking game than one that requires a 1000€ machine to play with ultra options 1080@60? Ok, go with it, but keep in mind you're being silly.

 

[KKRT00]

yeah man totally:

sorry but neither does it have the highest quality environmental assets in aspect of geometry, nor in material quality or even sheer asset quantity.
maybe i don't see what you see, so what have i forgotten?

Now compare that to the direct feed shots we have.

---

Are you talking about the trees to the left? Are you sure those are 2D? With the light and shadow they look like they could be low poly 3D.

Look at it closely, one branch is like millimeter wide on this shot.

---------

So basically ignore every single graphically impressive feature because some other game with great graphics may have already done it? Your posts have been ridiculous in this thread so far.

And why are you so insistent on focusing only on one or two bad, clearly old build direct captures to form all your conclusions about the games visuals? Why not watch some of the new footage and see for yourself? You seem to be content doing that for Project Cars and other games.

Also, your webm isn't working for me.

Maybe because those feature are just buzzword without any technical data, behind them?

And again, PCars has tons of direct feed stuff, for DC You however are constantly using gifs and youtube quality footage with tons of motion blur.
And screenshots are not from an old build. Its the same build as other previews. Unless You think that Eurogamer posted on their website stuff they've been sitting on for months.

For webm use Chrome. You will really see how great reflections are.

 

[GHG]

Pcars.

 

[RyudBoy]

I kinda wanna play Need For Speed now. Might buy it if the price drops to around $25 before pCARS or Forza Horizon 2 releases.

 

[KKRT00]

man the reflection simulation in DC is made out of three components:
- you have SS reflections of immediate surroundings (at least under the right viewing angle),
- specular reflections of actual light sources (which include nearby cars lights and maybe bounce light
- and cubemaps to imitate further surrounding reflections

and you really discredit his point with the example of one rough cubemapreflection under a kind of extreme (as in very near to the reflecting surface) camera position?
have you got a video material of PCs cubemaps under a comparable viewing point?

Eh I know how reflection works and You exactly know that cubemaps are the most dominant ones in any image. SSR are rare, because they are proximity and angle dependent, specular is only from light [no it does not bounce light].
And PCars has SSR and speculars as well, so the comparison is only for cubemaps, again dominant reflection in a game.

 

[nib95]

Pcars.

DriveClub GIF for comparison.

 

[twobear]

Reiterating my view that PCars peaks higher but DC is more consistent.

 

[Korezo]

I don't get the pcars graphics fascination, to me it's just a regular sim like game that runs in super high res. I think if GT5 was just ported to pc and was down sampled also like crazy it would have identical results to pcars or even look better depending who has the better rendering technology. The only thing I find impressive about pcars is the image quality, what would be the difference between pcars and Assetto Corsa because they look the same to me.

 

[Caayn]

man the reflection simulation in DC is made out of three components:
- you have SS reflections of immediate surroundings (at least under the right viewing angle),
- specular reflections of actual light sources (which include nearby cars lights and maybe bounce light

)
- and cubemaps to imitate further surrounding reflections

and you really discredit his point with the example of one rough cubemapreflection under a kind of extreme (as in very near to the reflecting surface) camera position?
have you got a video material of PCs cubemaps under a comparable viewing point?

Sorry I'm not as good as the others in this thread when it comes to this. But why does it look like your headlights are much, much stronger than the ones on the other cars? Same goes for the shadows your headlights seem to be the only one to generate shadows.

 

[ethomaz]

I don't get the pcars graphics fascination, to me it's just a regular sim like game that runs in super high res. I think if GT5 was just ported to pc and was down sampled also like crazy it would have identical results to pcars or even look better depending who has the better rendering technology. The only thing I find impressive about pcars is the image quality, what would be the difference between pcars and Assetto Corsa because they look the same to me.

Well in my opinion GT lighting is the best of all these listed... so a GT with high assets running in PC can be like a dream.

 

[travisbickle]

One from Gamescom too:

Shows the benefits of new design for the trees. I've read PCars is slowly transitioning to these better representations of trees.

 

[leadbelly]

Driveclub lighting and environment blend together really well, it's like the environment cast some indirect greenish light on the car.
PCar feel like it filmed with everyday camera, Driveclub is something for Cinema. Both realistic in it's own way just different approach

Yeah. The environment in Drive Club just looks much more natural. There is something really clinical in the way Project Cars looks. I don't know why it is, but it has this look to it where it feels like things have been carefully placed into the environment in a very neat and clinical way. It's like a very well kept garden. I also think the asset quality isn't quite up to the same standards. Not saying it's bad, it's just that the trees and foliage don't quite look like a natural part of the environment.

It's also an odd thing to say, but the sort of image quality you get on a PC, sort of accentuates that because it just makes the graphics extremely clean looking.

 

[GHG]

More PCars

 

[Canis lupus]

DriveClub GIF for comparison.

The green mountains up ahead, feels life like and really part of the gameworld as if you can just go there if you stepped out of the car.

edit: I didn't even notice the reflections, lighting and shadows falling on the dashboard. daaaamnn

 

[travisbickle]

Sorry I'm not as good as the others in this thread when it comes to this. But why does it look like your headlights are much, much stronger than the ones on the other cars? Same goes for the shadows your headlights seem to be the only one to generate shadows.

In the clip you quote, the bright light hitting the back of your car is from the headlights of the car behind.