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[Jiggy]

Something feels profoundly wrong with the world when there's a NeoGAF thread debating 2D and 3D and I'm siding with the latter. D:

Look one the bright side: at least the game being 3D means we at least have a chance of the game being localized.

This too!

 

[Black-Wind]

Hmmm...I don't think it's "off". Let the glorious cel-shaded and HD graphics on a more powerful console while let this one have a different style.

Personally I don't have any problem with the graphics, just give me a good gameplay + enjoyable cast and story and I'm game.

The only thing I can comment from the trailer is the battle animation, which is looking good.

Well I think it sounds "off". Like "well, this doesn't/ wont look as good a ToV so it would be better off as a 2D game". Kinda like how Matt. C in his podcast once said that devs should go the MadWorld/ NMH route over trying to actually push Wii Tech graphic's wise cause it wont look as good as the HD twins (As in, give up pushing the tech in favor of making super styled up games. Im loving MW's art style but too many games like that would suck and I see "2D" tails as just that).

As for this game, I think it's easily 2nd to ToV in graphical presentation amoung the 3D Tale of games from what we have seen. Animation wise, I love how smooth Mr. Pimpin's moves were in the fights . . . also shows alot of promise in that area.

I meant they will save 2D Tales for DS or maybe PSP, its cheaper that way. Nowsaday its pretty rare for companies to spend money doing 2D titles for consoles which is pretty sad;(

And this. I think it's a shame that 2D aint being done much on consoles . . .but looking at this teaser makes me wonder why someone would want it in 2D (which would also change la gameplay. That fight looked fun to me . . . but I started with ToS) over this.

 

[PseudoKirby]

Hopefully Vesperia is announced for the PS3.

god I am sick of the people still holding out for this


JUST BUY A 360 DAMNIT

 

[Firestorm]

I'll join for the main quest, but not the character quests

I really liked the idea of character quests and wish more games did something like that.

 

[RpgN]

god I am sick of the people still holding out for this


JUST BUY A 360 DAMNIT

The same as hearing xbox fans want Versus, MGS4 and Valkyria Chronicles on their machine. Get used to it, hun!

I remember when TOS was first released it was also in a very beta stage and early. I guess that's normal with Namco Tales Studio then. I just hope we get something a little different this time. I have like 11 Tales games (including import) and while most of them are fun, I want some new direction. Hopefully, the wii remote will provide that.

 

[grandjedi6]

The same as hearing xbox fans want Versus, MGS4 and Valkyria Chronicles on their machine. Get used to it, hun!

The fanboys for each system should sit down and agree to trades for each system. "Okay so we'll give you guys Vesperia but in return get Valkyria, etc." Of course the actual publishers involved will just laugh and ignore them but still....

 

[RpgN]

The fanboys for each system should sit down and agree to trades for each system. "Okay so we'll give you guys Vesperia but in return get Valkyria, etc." Of course the actual publishers involved will just laugh and ignore them but still....

Hahaha, that would be so fun! It will be like 3 different political parties negotiating for stuff XD You want Valkyria Chronicles, sir? We'll think about it if we get some nice deal

Honestly, it would be so nice if we were able to share. Many people have to try Valkyria Chronicles out and I want to play ToV as well. We'll have to wait and see what the future brings us

 

[AniHawk]

JUST BUY A 360 DAMNIT

I ALREADY DID GET OFF MY BACK

 

[SovanJedi]

Edit: Hahahahahaahahahahaa. If Vanillaware does a Tales game, it won't be out until 2015.

I'd be happy with that. They release wayyyy too many Tales games as it is.

 

[duckroll]

I'd be happy with that. They release wayyyy too many Tales games as it is.

But will Namco be happy with that?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

But will Namco be happy with that?

That depends on whether reducing the glut would return the series to the point where one major release could do almost as well as this year's five smaller ones.

 

[Koren]

Look one the bright side: at least the game being 3D means we at least have a chance of the game being localized.

Nintendo is not SCEA. I'm pretty sure they don't have the same politics as Sony with respect to 2D games. Viewtiful Joe was not a GC exclusivity at the beginning, if the rumors are true.

 

[duckroll]

That depends on whether reducing the glut would return the series to the point where one major release could do almost as well as this year's five smaller ones.

I think it would improve sales from the current dismal level, but the glory days of Tales on sales charts is long gone. Much of it can be attributed to general sales decline of individual titles to begin with. With the PS2 behind us, there is really no platform that Tales can trive in the same way again honestly.

 

[Cedille]

But will Namco be happy with that?

I still remember a developer (maybe Kikuchi) said "we wanted to release even more" after releasing 3 or 4 Tales games in that year.

 

[Wizpig]

THE HAIR... UGH!
I mean, fuck, purple hair... on a main character?

And by the way, did you find out which team is handling this?
Symphonia/Vesperia team?

 

[Llyranor]

god I am sick of the people still holding out for this


JUST BUY A 360 DAMNIT

Hey, I love my copy of Vesperia and all, but I wouldn't mind a PS3 version with dual-audio!

 

[duckroll]

Hey, I love my copy of Vesperia and all, but I wouldn't mind a PS3 version with dual-audio!

Space is not the reason why ToV did not have dual-audio apparently...

 

[Y2Kev]

combat looks slow. this is not a TD game, most definitely.

Team Internia? Does team destiny even really exist anymore?

 

[Firestorm]

THE HAIR... UGH!
I mean, fuck, purple hair... on a main character?

And by the way, did you find out which team is handling this?
Symphonia/Vesperia team?

They just got done Vesperia. I'm assuming their next game will be in 2010. Hopefully on 360 or even PS3. I'd prefer 360 because they didn't exactly do an amazing job on the technical side of things when they went GCN -> PS2.

 

[MotherFan]

They just got done Vesperia. I'm assuming their next game will be in 2010. Hopefully on 360 or even PS3. I'd prefer 360 because they didn't exactly do an amazing job on the technical side of things when they went GCN -> PS2.

Well, Namco did say they are putting the motherships on Wii, so I suspect their A team will be handling this one. And how can we make any judgment about the combat? I mean, this does not even have a title yet. I doubt anything here is set in stone, its more like its written in sand.

 

[schuelma]

Well, Namco did say they are putting the motherships on Wii, so I suspect their A team will be handling this one. And how can we make any judgment about the combat? I mean, this does not even have a title yet. I doubt anything here is set in stone, its more like its written in sand.

People think it may be Alpha System, but they are still working on the PSP Tales I believe.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

As much I'd love 2D, I'd far prefer Tales type 2D on the DS. I mean I think games like Muramasa and Warioland were a better fit on the Wii then DS, but not a game like tales. Well unless they up the presentation with 640p sprites, animated backgrounds, voice acting, and non midi score...which I doubt would happen.

And this. I think it's a shame that 2D aint being done much on consoles . . .but looking at this teaser makes me wonder why someone would want it in 2D (which would also change la gameplay. That fight looked fun to me . . . but I started with ToS) over this.

2D isn't done on consoles because pretty much all developers still treat them like SNES games both presentation and gameplay wise. So many potential innovations and genres to be born harned down by cheap cash-ins and niche developers supporting ultra conservative fanbases.

And developers somehow blame its the 2D graphics that off-put the consumer when in reality even when they use 3D models the games still sell like shit (looks at Klonoa Wii and TvC).

 

[jj984jj]

People think it may be Alpha System, but they are still working on the PSP Tales I believe.

Yeah but it's basically expanding and fixing the flaws of the first and Alfa System had ToI in development while they were making RM too, with how early this looks it wouldn't surprise me if it was them.

 

[Firestorm]

Well, Namco did say they are putting the motherships on Wii, so I suspect their A team will be handling this one. And how can we make any judgment about the combat? I mean, this does not even have a title yet. I doubt anything here is set in stone, its more like its written in sand.

No. They said they're putting their next mothership title on Wii. There are like two mothership titles a year now. Do you think their two A teams are the ones working on them every year? The mothership name hardly even matters. Tempest was one at one point before they realized how bad it was.

Mothership titles:
Tales of Phantasia (Wolf)
Tales of Destiny (Tales Studio?)
Tales of Eternia (Tales Studio?)
Tales of Destiny 2 (Destiny)
Tales of Symphonia (Symphonia)
Tales of Rebirth (Destiny)
Tales of the Abyss (Symphonia)
[BEFORE] Tales of the Tempest (Dimps?)
Tales of Innocence (Alfa)
Tales of Vesperia (Symphonia
Tales of Hearts (Frankenstein)

I might be wrong. There are too many titles and developers in the series. There are a few others here who would be much better at keeping track of this.

As much I'd love 2D, I'd far prefer Tales type 2D on the DS. I mean I think games like Muramasa and Warioland were a better fit on the Wii then DS, but not a game like tales. Well unless they up the presentation with 640p sprites, animated backgrounds, voice acting, and non midi score...which I doubt would happen.

I'd kill for that on Wii. It cannot be done on DS.

 

[jj984jj]

You forgot Legendia. I don't think they'll pull a Tempest again anytime soon.

 

[Wizpig]

Bah.
I'm a noob of the Tales of series, i'm not trying to pretend i'm an expert, but the reason i love it is because of the Symphonia team.
If this is not made by them i'll have to read lots of opinions before.
But then again, what the fuck am i talking about? we'll never see this in Europe.

fake edit. by the way, thanks firestorm!

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I'd kill for that on Wii. It cannot be done on DS.

And this is exactly my point. Seriously I've seen Saturn games that match those graphics.

Are those even standard resolution sprites?

Why not something like this?

 

[Cygnus X-1]

First Trailer

http://youtube.com/watch?v=crRmKsFJuTU

thx@neo2046

Posted it here, since it was kinda OT in the other Thread .

Actually, it looks very nice. I hope the story will be on par with ToS.

 

[Firestorm]

Well I really, really like the look of Destiny Remake and would love to play a game like that. If they were going to go the look you're posting, I think PS3 or 360 might be a better match.

 

[wrowa]

Tales of Hearts (Frankenstein)

Frankenstein is already the name of the DotnW studio - we cant use the same name for two studios! ;D
How about Destiphonia? ;D

 

[grandjedi6]

Nintendo is not SCEA. I'm pretty sure they don't have the same politics as Sony with respect to 2D games. Viewtiful Joe was not a GC exclusivity at the beginning, if the rumors are true.

I wasn't talking about Nintendo, I was talking about Namco.

 

[Shouta]

And this is exactly my point. Seriously I've seen Saturn games that match those graphics.

Are those even standard resolution sprites?

Why not something like this?

Resolution isn't everything. Hokuto no Ken animates like a dead body, stiff. Tales of Destiny Remake moves much more nicely and has tons more stuff going on screen even if the resolution is smaller.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Resolution isn't everything. Hokuto no Ken animates like a dead body, stiff. Tales of Destiny Remake moves much more nicely and has tons more stuff going on screen even if the resolution is smaller.

Well I was talking about mere graphical quality. And quite honest beside Vanillaware I couldn't find a developers with satisfactory animation. I mean there should be no reason why the graphics should look like something someone with advanced skills made in Microsoft Paint.

I mean come on there are games on hardware from 2 generations ago that look better then that.

 

[Rpgmonkey]

Well I was talking about mere graphical quality. And quite honest beside Vanillaware I couldn't find a developers with satisfactory animation. I mean there should be no reason why the graphics should look like something someone with advanced skills made in Microsoft Paint.

Out of curiosity, have you ever played Tales of Rebirth or the Tales of Destiny Remake?

I think you're really underrating the way they look and the style of 2D they went with.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Out of curiosity, have you ever played Tales of Rebirth or the Tales of Destiny Remake?

I think you're really underrating the way they look and the style of 2D they went with.

I'm not saying it looks "bad" just not up to standard of how 2D games should look in this day of age.

 

[Mejilan]

Also, Vanillaware's animation sucks balls. At least, Odin Sphere has assy as fuck animation.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Also, Vanillaware's animation sucks balls. At least, Odin Sphere has assy as fuck animation.

Personally I highly disagree. I mean sure it was no Third Strike, but it definately wasn't significantly subpar.

...I think people are completely missing the point of my posts.

 

[Shouta]

Well I was talking about mere graphical quality. And quite honest beside Vanillaware I couldn't find a developers with satisfactory animation. I mean there should be no reason why the graphics should look like something someone with advanced skills made in Microsoft Paint.

I mean come on there are games on hardware from 2 generations ago that look better then that.

If the ToDr sprites are something you can do in paint, most of those others can be done too.

Really though, those other games don`t look any better than ToDr. They`re different styles and look good for that style but are they better? No way. It also comes down to a matter of opinion and priority. I think simply having large sprites doesn`t mean squat if it animates poorly so I`d argue that a game like Hokuto no Ken or Odin Sphere would be, in some regards, a bad example of a 2D game. On the other hand, those sprites do look fantastic in stillshots so I gotta give them a bit of props for that.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

If the ToDr sprites are something you can do in paint, most of those others can be done too.

Really though, those other games don`t look any better than ToDr. They`re different styles and look good for that style but are they better? No way. It also comes down to a matter of opinion and priority. I think simply having large sprites doesn`t mean squat if it animates poorly so I`d argue that a game like Hokuto no Ken or Odin Sphere would be, in some regards, a bad example of a 2D game. On the other hand, those sprites do look fantastic in stillshots so I gotta give them a bit of props for that.

Well to me the games I listed had more detail then Tales of Rebirth Remake.

Okay I admit that "Paint" was too strong of a comparison but basically what I'm saying is that people should expect better graphics from 2D games then that. I mean look at Warioland Shake It!'s sprites and tell me that developers shouldn't be striving for higher quality sprites on the Wii. 2D graphics have evolved to a point where games can look like paintings or cartoons and some people still expect games that look like they were made a decade ago.

 

[Dante23]

Also, Vanillaware's animation sucks balls. At least, Odin Sphere has assy as fuck animation.

I agree, Odin Sphere is beautiful, but the animations are somewhat crappy.

And I love my Tales of seriese in 3D, thank you very much.

 

[Mejilan]

Odin Sphere uses all kinds of trickery to get away with not having to have actual, awesome, amazing, hand-drawn animation. The result is game that looks awesome in stills, but incredibly janky and rough in motion. It's certainly hasn't set any kind of benchmark or bar at all when it comes to animated 2D gaming.

 

[Shouta]

Well to me the games I listed had more detail then Tales of Rebirth Remake.

Okay I admit that "Paint" was too strong of a comparison but basically what I'm saying is that people should expect better graphics from 2D games then that. I mean look at Warioland Shake It!'s sprites and tell me that developers shouldn't be striving for higher quality sprites on the Wii. 2D graphics have evolved to a point where games can look like paintings or cartoons and some people still expect games that look like they were made a decade ago.

I don`t really think they have more detail myself but the Destiny pic may be a bit bad (can`t tell at work since it`s blocked).

Expecting better is always a good thing but it comes with a lot of other factors in mind. Nice 2D sprites aren`t anything without animation. The reverse is true as well where incredible animation isn`t nearly amazing if the sprites themselves aren`t great. Then there`s style to boot. Gotta find the nice medium. Then of course, there`s the monetary problem for these devs too. =/

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Odin Sphere uses all kinds of trickery to get away with not having to have actual, awesome, amazing, hand-drawn animation. The result is game that looks awesome in stills, but incredibly janky and rough in motion. It's certainly hasn't set any kind of benchmark or bar at all when it comes to animated 2D gaming.

I'm not arguing that Odin Sphere's animation matched its sprite quality. I'm just saying that it didn't animate as bad as say HNK. It definately wasn't good, but wasn't quite terrible either.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I don`t really think they have more detail myself but the Destiny pic may be a bit bad (can`t tell at work since it`s blocked).

Expecting better is always a good thing but it comes with a lot of other factors in mind. Nice 2D sprites aren`t anything without animation. The reverse is true as well where incredible animation isn`t nearly amazing if the sprites themselves aren`t great. Then there`s style to boot. Gotta find the nice medium. Then of course, there`s the monetary problem for these devs too. =/

The problem is that exremely few 2D console games reach that happy medium.

Also "monetary problem"? I'm curious please explain.

 

[Mejilan]

What hurt Odin Sphere more, in my opinion, was that the animation quality fell FAR, FAR short of the sprite quality. It was just so jarring. It sounds a bit odd to put it this way, but I'd have probably been less disappointed had the sprite quality been downgraded, and the animations upgraded so that a better balance was struck. Or any kind of balance, really. I understand why they did what they did. Budget. But it still sucked.

That, and the gameplay was incredibly bad too. ;p

Edit - The 2D "monetary problem" is basically as such. It takes a lot more time, effort, and resources to fully animate extremely high quality/high resolution sprites. Basically, almost every single frame has to be drawn manually. The more frames, and the higher the quality, the more time it takes and the more money it costs. 3D animation, in general, is a lot simpler, easier, and cheaper. Once you have the models and animations whipped up, changing artstyles doesn't require near-complete, top-down re-draws either. You just whip up new textures to skin over the existing models and animations.

It's also the reason why Iga and his Castlevania team tend to leave the 2D games to the lower resolution handhelds. They can largely use existing enemy sprites developed throughout the history of the 2D side of the franchise, and regurgitate them into new games. Developing an HD 2D Castlevania is well, well beyond their budget. That's why the GBA and DS got the good ones, and the PS2 and Xbox got the shitty 3D experiments.

 

[Shouta]

The problem is that exremely few 2D console games reach that happy medium.

Also "monetary problem"? I'm curious please explain.

I personally think the Team Destiny games do it myself considering the hardware and money they put into it.

And yeah, monetary problems. Getting the manpower to properly draw and animate a really good game takes quite a bit and it`s gotten kind of expensive to do so. Higher costs = less likely to make a 2D game or do so cheaply. It`s usually cheaper to do it 3D now.

 

[iDoubleSpy]

I'm sure there will be people to defend the "Tales of" series, but the games started to really fall flat for me after I played Tales of Phantasia and Tales of Destiny.

Aside from the horrendous enemy encounter rate, I felt those games had much more charm and were visually pleasing then lets say Tales of Symphonia

Thoughts?

 

[grandjedi6]

I'm sure there will be people to defend the "Tales of" series, but the games started to really fall flat for me after I played Tales of Phantasia and Tales of Destiny.

Aside from the horrendous enemy encounter rate, I felt those games had much more charm and were visually pleasing then lets say Tales of Symphonia

Thoughts?

Thoughts: Play Vesperia

 

[PseudoKirby]

The same as hearing xbox fans want Versus, MGS4 and Valkyria Chronicles on their machine. Get used to it, hun!

I remember when TOS was first released it was also in a very beta stage and early. I guess that's normal with Namco Tales Studio then. I just hope we get something a little different this time. I have like 11 Tales games (including import) and while most of them are fun, I want some new direction. Hopefully, the wii remote will provide that.

the main reason I believe that the majority of Xbox fans wanting MGS4 on the 360 is just to see another big Playstation exclusive on the 360... another blow to sony


but that has came and went, I was one that rooted for an MGS4 port, and I would never play the game


I am just sick of the RPG fans that refuse to buy a 360 even though its getting a plethora of RPG's

and alot of them I have asked they wont buy a 360 because they hate MS for Windows :|

 

[PseudoKirby]

Thoughts: Play Vesperia

I agree

Vesperia needs to be played by a lot more people..