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Next Wave of Wii 3rd Party Games
- Thread starter BostonZelda33
- Start date
felipeko said:
The industry was doing just fine. Nintendo's vision of grandmothers sitting down to a fun-filled game of Wii Bowling with their grandsons is not one I share.
felipeko said:
But why force developers (and gamers by extension) to make that choice? Why can't you have both? 360 and PS3 both have all variety of games from the simplicity of Galaxy Wars to the complexity of Mass Effect. Again, I'd assume it eventually comes back to a corporate finance argument which I have very little interest in.
Amir0x said:
I really do think price is a larger factor than you're giving it credit for. N64 was the same price as the Playstation when it was released in the states, BTW. The Gamecube was passed over because to the more informed hardcore gamer it was a purple lunchbox with no third party support. The Wii isn't really selling to the same gamer as the Gamecube. To the more casual gamer, price is a concern. Just look at the explosion in sells that happend when the Playstation and Playstation 2 went down to mass market friendly prices.
Gameboy won many a war based on price too.
ksamedi said:
No, it's the nature of DEVELOPMENT. The developers of Lair wanted to produce a game of the highest graphical fidelity they could imagine. That type of ambition requires time and energy. I'm sure they could've put out a mini-game collection in a weekend.
Minotauro said:
You know, most of the games designed around the whole "appeal to the casuals" mindset are games that very much don't appeal to me personally... but I do think it's unfortunate that many of the people here can't see the advantages of broadening the gaming market. It's a good thing if more people beyond a very limited demographic plays games, and it's silly the way people on GAF lash out at that.
ksamedi said:
****ing bullshit. It's the nature of the hardware? Last time I checked, Metroid Prime and Mario Galaxy were originally slated as launch titles for the Wii, while Smash was supposed to be out by the end of 2007. Then Miyamoto said "within the next six months" for Mario. Metroid became "early 2007." Ooops again. Dragon Quest Swords was supposed to be a launch title. That didn't work out too well, either, did it?
Someone arguing in favor of a Nintendo console has no business saying it's the nature of the competitors' hardware that causes software delays. Drop the act.
ethelred said:
I'm not necessarily against broadening the gaming market. I'm just speaking about what I personally value in gaming and arguing that Nintendo's decision to underpower their system is a direct affront to it. If old people and parents can have fun with Mario Party 8 and Wii Sports, more power to them...
ethelred said:
Good games take time, but when your developing a good game on hardware as advanced as the PS3, it takes more time. I dont know if your a programmer or have any experience, but i can tell you that theres a huge difference between single core programming and multicore programming. Hell, they probably even hire theoretical computer scientist to make there programming more efficient on the Cell.
ksamedi said:
My point is that I resent Nintendo for making this an either/or argument and forcing us to chose power over new controls and vice versa. There's absolutely no reason (beyond financial ones) they couldn't have given the Wii more power thereby making it a venue for ambitious developers to really explore big ideas hand-in-hand with this new control mechanism they're pushing.
I have a different vision of how industry was doing. But still, you can't deny that the industry will grow with that, and that will benefit the core gamer.Minotauro said:
If you only look at this side, then why didn't sony go for a better GPU, 2 HDMI ports, more RAM? I mean, why didn't they give us a even more powerful hardware, i know they could if they wanted. But they didn't, and now they are forcing developers to go with this could-be-more-powerful hardware for 5-7 years.Minotauro said:
Minotauro said:
Well you could say the same thing about Microsoft and Sony for being so conservative and not advance control schemes. Nintendo has a clear strategy with the Wii, its not even the price, its the size, look and low power consuption for Wiiconnect24 that determined the hardware power of the Wii, not because there cheap or anything. Like Amirox said, Wii HD would not fail because of a higher price, but since Nintendo wants to sell a lot of software and keep the Wii in the living room, Wii HD would fail in this aspect.
vanguardian1
poor, homeless and tasteless
I think some of you guys are missing the accumulation of the bigger picture here.
With your suggestions the Wii would be :
- Much larger, with a greater heat output and much larger power consumption (not such a big deal to most regular gamers, but a big thing for public appeal)
- Reduced or removed Gamecube compatibility, as they'd have to switch video/processor families (unless you want to count the PS3 and 360's erratic/half-assed backwards compatibility charts as acceptable)
- Nintendo can't really sell their console at a loss, so the idea of them getting anywhere near the 360's power at a $300 price limit is ridiculous (unless they want to copy MS's route of cheap hardware reliability)
- a new cpu/video architecture means that have to have completely new development tools to create to use them, meaning that developers have to learn ANOTHER completely new development system IN ADDITION TO THE NEW CONTROL SYSTEM
- oh yeah, high definition games, meaning that those (decent or better) game budgets just jumped another 30-40% at least, in addition to the games starting at $60 too
- All of these factors I just mentioned would pull down the install base's size and growth significantly, making the wii an even less desirable platform to develop for
- All of these big PS3/360 games that we see were started well before the Wii started taking off, and presuming the wii's hardware was closer to the 360/PS3, only a few of them might get a "port" to the wii. And seeing the current "good port/bad port ratio" on the Wii so far, most people would feel it would be far better to own them on the systems they were designed for.
- Oh yeah, all of this, again combined, would also make it far less likely for the wii to get any original 3rd party games. Odds are a lot of them already own PS3/360's or are already determined to get one of them.
- It's Nintendo, the only people who would expect them to do well with a console at this point in time are fans of the company or those who would be considered candidates for the insane asylum. How many developers were willing to bet at least SOME money on the Wii's launch? Ubi invested a bit, as well as Atlus, but developers and publishers are still downright wary of any significant support for a Nintendo platform, many of them are still ignore the DS as it is.
Essentially, it's my view/opinion that an increase in hardware/cost for Nintendo's platform would cause them significantly more harm them any potential gains.
With your suggestions the Wii would be :
- Much larger, with a greater heat output and much larger power consumption (not such a big deal to most regular gamers, but a big thing for public appeal)
- Reduced or removed Gamecube compatibility, as they'd have to switch video/processor families (unless you want to count the PS3 and 360's erratic/half-assed backwards compatibility charts as acceptable)
- Nintendo can't really sell their console at a loss, so the idea of them getting anywhere near the 360's power at a $300 price limit is ridiculous (unless they want to copy MS's route of cheap hardware reliability)
- a new cpu/video architecture means that have to have completely new development tools to create to use them, meaning that developers have to learn ANOTHER completely new development system IN ADDITION TO THE NEW CONTROL SYSTEM
- oh yeah, high definition games, meaning that those (decent or better) game budgets just jumped another 30-40% at least, in addition to the games starting at $60 too
- All of these factors I just mentioned would pull down the install base's size and growth significantly, making the wii an even less desirable platform to develop for
- All of these big PS3/360 games that we see were started well before the Wii started taking off, and presuming the wii's hardware was closer to the 360/PS3, only a few of them might get a "port" to the wii. And seeing the current "good port/bad port ratio" on the Wii so far, most people would feel it would be far better to own them on the systems they were designed for.
- Oh yeah, all of this, again combined, would also make it far less likely for the wii to get any original 3rd party games. Odds are a lot of them already own PS3/360's or are already determined to get one of them.
- It's Nintendo, the only people who would expect them to do well with a console at this point in time are fans of the company or those who would be considered candidates for the insane asylum. How many developers were willing to bet at least SOME money on the Wii's launch? Ubi invested a bit, as well as Atlus, but developers and publishers are still downright wary of any significant support for a Nintendo platform, many of them are still ignore the DS as it is.
Essentially, it's my view/opinion that an increase in hardware/cost for Nintendo's platform would cause them significantly more harm them any potential gains.
So.. You got 2 choices, and you are blaming Nintendo to try something different?Minotauro said:
Why not blame Microsoft and Sony for not trying?
Still, it could be higher.rakka said:
He is blaming Nintendo saying that Wii's specs could be higher. And now i can't blame Sony?
He don't want know any implication aside from his gamer desire.. And vanguardian1 showed a lot of implications. So from a gamer desire, i want everything a lot much better than it is.
Minotauro said:
Wii was a massive risk for them, they went underpowered to mitigate some of the cost of that risk. We can complain all we want about how if Nintendo knew the Wii would be this successful then they could have made the Wii 5x more powerful, but if Sony knew the PS3 would be hurting this badly then they would have made it half as expensive, if MS knew they were going to lose $1billion in warranty/repairs then they might have spent a little more care in developing their console.
Now, we can all cry into our weetbix about some videogame manufacturers didn't meet our every dream + desire or we can GTFO, maybe play some video games or something.
well guys, to tell you the truth, if the Wii was $300 or more I wouldnt have it with me right now. You know how much budget calculations I had to go through working with a minimum wage salary and having school. To give you another perspective, I couldnt get the DS until a year and some months after it reduced the price. Plus, I had to wait a month before I could pick up Zelda for my Wii. Thank God I had Wii Sports.
.... thank God I have Gamefly now too.....
.... thank God I have Gamefly now too.....Who cares about 3rd Parties... it's a Nintendo machine and Nintendo has to show what it's capable of. Right now they've presented 3 hardware add-ons, like they don't know what to do with the Wiimote alone 
And far too many people are happy with WiiSports, not buying another game. That's the downside of appealing non-gamer crowds.
And far too many people are happy with WiiSports, not buying another game. That's the downside of appealing non-gamer crowds.
Well, Wii would be more than powerful enough to handle a game like Morrowind, which is actually similar in scope (but better than Oblivion in my humble opinion). Wii should also be powerful enough to handle Oblivions (mostly gameplay-irrelevant) moon physics, considering that Elebits has similar, but more elaborate physics. Radiant AI probably wouldn't work, though - which is a good thing, because I think it sucked big time.Minotauro said:
iidesuyo said:Who cares about 3rd Parties... it's a Nintendo machine and Nintendo has to show what it's capable of. Right now they've presented 3 hardware add-ons, like they don't know what to do with the Wiimote alone
And far too many people are happy with WiiSports, not buying another game. That's the downside of appealing non-gamer crowds.
Wii software sales are pretty good actually.
felipeko said:
No, I'm blaming them, as a gamer, for opting out on the hardware power side for purely financial reasons. I understand why they did and realize it might've been a risk for them to compete with Sony and Microsoft on that front but that does very little for me as a gamer. The Wii could've been an amazing piece of hardware that really could've opened gaming up for developers and gamers alike. Unfortunately, they saw fit to hobble the machine power-wise thereby resulting in it becoming a dumping ground for last gen ports and mini-game collections. Hopefully, something truly innovative will come out of Nintendo or one of the 3rd Parties and totally shatter my preconceptions but I'm not going to hold my breath.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Minotauro said:
FALSE.
You resent Nintendo for not doing exactly what MS and Sony did and automatically failing, like they would have.
And you may not believe it, but "financial reasons" have a huge impact on companies. It's like..you know...the reason they exist? But nah. You just overlook that and keep right on smokin' that company's balls that is hemorrhaging more money on consoles sold than is believable. See how that works out for your favorite company.
PkunkFury
Member
iidesuyo said:Who cares about 3rd Parties... it's a Nintendo machine and Nintendo has to show what it's capable of. Right now they've presented 3 hardware add-ons, like they don't know what to do with the Wiimote alone
And far too many people are happy with WiiSports, not buying another game. That's the downside of appealing non-gamer crowds.
:lol The only hardware add on is the balance board, and right now it's game specific. That's like complaining that Sony allowed Activision to publish a game that requires a guitar. The wheel and zapper are plastic shells that add no funcitonality to the Wii set-up. Sounds like they will be bundled with the software, and you can play the games without them. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they make the games worse... why would you want to glue the nunchuck and the remote together with the zapper when one of the main benefits of the Wii set-up is separating the hands?? reguardless, I expect a large number of these add-ons in the future. It's what the socket on the wiimote was designed for, and in some cases (the forthcoming fishing rod and the GHIII controller) it looks like it could be pretty beneficial
also, the "non-games don't sell real games" issue is a straw man at best. Wii software sales are pretty damn good, check last month's NPD for the numbers, or any media create thread this year. Yes the 360's software sales are better, but Wii seems to be catching up world wide. and both of them are leaving the PS3 in the dust. "Non-games" did not stop DS software from hitting the big time, I doubt it will have negative effects on the Wii. Some people won't buy more games, of course, but at the same time, some PS2 owners only bought Grand Theft Auto or Madden, and some X-Box owners only bought Halo. Stagnant cutomers are an issue all game companies battle
RiskyChris
Banned
Minotauro said:
God you're full of contradictions.
As a gamer you're upset that Wii isn't something that would have failed?
Do you realize that a successful Wii has more positive possibilities for you as a gamer than a failed Wii?
Minotauro said:
I feel the same way. Personally, I don't think motion controls alone make a game better. I want a concept that actually takes advantage of the hardware, cannot be done on any other system, and is brilliant to boot. I just don't think 3rd parties are overflowing with ideas, though, so we're pretty much stuck with old ideas with motion controls. This does not excite me in the least.
The NDS is an interesting comparison. It also offers new controls with worse graphics and a cheaper price. However, it allows for traditional controls as well. In the beginning, the system was flooded with gimmicky crap like Feel the Magic. Eventually, developers stopped forcing touch screen controls into every game. Now we have games like Phoenix Wright and Advance Wars, games that use standard controls, combined with new ideas like Canvas Curse. By allowing the option, there are games that appeal to pure gamers and the casual/lapsed crowd.
Will the Wii ever get to that point? I just don't know. First of all, this is Nintendo's baby. Do 3rd parties even care about motion controls? Have they been cooking up ideas for the last few years, hoping for a canvas to exhibit their creations? Or will they merely force ill-conceived titles on the system because there is money to be made? What really scares me is Nintendo. They should be the one utilizing this tech. But they have released virtually nothing so far and seem to have very little planned in the future. If they aren't leading the way, who will?
Nintendo also saw the balooning cost's of actually developing a game, and in my estimation, actually lured third-parties back with cheaper dev cost's, and quick port ups.Minotauro said:
I know that sounds strange, but Nintendo's ties with third-parties have been tenuous at best over the past decade or so. Make it cheap, and make it easy. It's working isnt it?
I also would have liked the Wii to be a clear-cut leap from last gen, but I also wouldnt have liked to spend 3-400$ for a videogame console.
I dont know. The Wii is an excellent new idea, and completly different, thus reinvigorating my interest in videogames as a whole. It needed more juice though.
It's like Sony and Microsoft are really happy with the path they take... I mean, Sony already lost all the profit from PS2 with PS3, and Microsoft still didnt see any profit. But yes, i would love Nintendo go bankruptcy just to fill my gamer desires. But you know, i think that, in the end, to fill my gamer desires i would get hurt, because i would lose Nintendo.Minotauro said:
I hope you can get the analogy from Nintendo and the games industry.
Metroid, Mario Galaxy and Wii ___ games says that you are wrong. And Nintendo doesn't have a reason to release anything now, they don't need to boost sales. I'm sure they have a lot of cards to show if they need. I mean, where is Wii Music? I'm sure they have it done by now, but they just don't need to hype anything now.Gigglepoo said: