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Next Xbox should go Nvidia
- Thread starter Buggy Loop
- Start date
tusharngf
Member
yeah 10$ chip
ZehDon
Gold Member
Sorry, you're absolutely correct, I mis-remembered the comments.
Buggy Loop
Member
Getting tired of these nonsense takes
It's like +10% historically. Nvidia climbs up lately because of the AI craze, these cards are high margin as it's limited supply.
And it's almost impossible to estimate true actual margins if you include R&D and indirect expenses. Nvidia's huge leap in RT & AI does come at a cost.
Yeah for sure Microsoft a $3 Trillion company will just walk in Nvidia's office and get the price of a consumer picking up a GPU at Microcenter, after dealing already billions for AI chips and cloud servers and the biggest AI investment in history coming up in the next years on Microsoft side. They're piggybacking their way together to a $15T AI business by 2030. Truely Nvidia's advantage to fuck up that relationship. Truely regarded take.
Motherfucking cheap bastard penny clinching Nintendo McScrooge is going for second gen with them because we all know Nintendo likes to lose money from fleecing high margin / no services / hard to work with / insert any evil Nvidia internet bullshit / MILD Is nvidia dead?
You cracked the case!
It's MEME but he's absolutely right for AI cards. Those who missed the bus on orders are already feeling the burn.
Oh right, just like that. They only have to ditch their hybrid RT model and start from scratch. And Nvidia has to stop progressing somehow in the meantime.
How many *upto* 1.5x it's gonna take each generations? RDNA 2 to RDNA 3 was 1.5x. What are you expecting out of RDNA 4?
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Buggy Loop
Member
SolidQ
Member
Buggy Loop
You seems didn't learn history. Go and learn history
Buggy Loop
Member
You seems didn't learn history. Go and learn history
Oohhh do tell
SolidQ
Member
No, go and learn it.
Only Xbox original was with new chip
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Buggy Loop
Member
And it’s a generation behind because?
PS3 had a generation behind graphics compared to Xbox 360?
OG Xbox had a generation behind graphics compared to PS2?
For sure that looks like a good level headed statement such as « ALWAYS a generation behind »
Are you for real?
FalconPunch
Member
Written like a true fanboy. If you’re building a console that needs to provide good value, have a good cost reduction strategy, provide longevity, etc, Nvidia is the worst manufacturer to purchase from. Back when nvidia’s margins weren’t this high, they were cutting historically shitty deals to console manufacturers. It’s why after ps360, no one bothered to go with them until the switch. Even with the switch, Nintendo cannot drop the prices because nvidia provides poor cost reduction on their 7 year old garbage tegra chip.
Getting tired of these nonsense takes
It's like +10% historically. Nvidia climbs up lately because of the AI craze, these cards are high margin as it's limited supply.
And it's almost impossible to estimate true actual margins if you include R&D and indirect expenses. Nvidia's huge leap in RT & AI does come at a cost.
Yeah for sure Microsoft a $3 Trillion company will just walk in Nvidia's office and get the price of a consumer picking up a GPU at Microcenter, after dealing already billions for AI chips and cloud servers and the biggest AI investment in history coming up in the next years on Microsoft side. They're piggybacking their way together to a $15T AI business by 2030. Truely Nvidia's advantage to fuck up that relationship. Truely regarded take.
Motherfucking cheap bastard penny clinching Nintendo McScrooge is going for second gen with them because we all know Nintendo likes to lose money from fleecing high margin / no services / hard to work with / insert any evil Nvidia internet bullshit / MILD Is nvidia dead?
You cracked the case!
It's MEME but he's absolutely right for AI cards. Those who missed the bus on orders are already feeling the burn.
Oh right, just like that. They only have to ditch their hybrid RT model and start from scratch. And Nvidia has to stop progressing somehow in the meantime.
How many *upto* 1.5x it's gonna take each generations? RDNA 2 to RDNA 3 was 1.5x. What are you expecting out of RDNA 4?
Good job copying and pasting the charts forgetting what the sole objective of consoles are. To deliver an affordable box and to make profit. You’ll struggle to do this with nvidia if you want cutting edge tech. It’s better to go with amd or intel as nvidia can never offer a competitive deal for the price.
twilo99
Member
Don't be sorry they weren't very clear and I think what she said was scripted anyway
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I have a feeling both Sony and MS have made long term deals with AMD and we won't be seeing any changes from it for a long while.
pasterpl
Member
I think MS even cancelled surface line with AMD and now is going with integrated graphics or nvidia. As someone mentioned here already, microsoft is probably the biggest customer that nvidia has at time, and with massive orders like these (we are talking billions of dollars) they are in a bit different neg position than many may think. I am not saying that the next Xbox will be using nvidia, but if they decide to go premium route they may offer it at lower cost than many expect.
pasterpl
Member
Among many rumours in the last 2 weeks there was one saying that MS started negotiations with AMD just recently. So who knows.
Hudo
Member
I thought that the main reason why both Sony and Microsoft never went ahead with Nvidia during this and the last gens was that Nvidia are notoriously difficult to make a deal with. So I assume that Nintendo's Yakuza branch just held Leatherjacket Jensen hostage until he agreed to supply the Switch (and the next one) with chips.
crackajack
Member
The cost would be interesting. But Nintendo also works with them and presumably will continue with the Switch successor, even though they could use some Snapdragon, Exynos, MediaTek or put some standard ARM elements themselves together and manufacture it wherever for maybe cheaper. Nvidia is their chosen option.
ARM and Nvidia would certainly be interesting. Only downside is possibly that porting to PC would be a bit harder again, but MS has virtualisation locked down so might struggle not one bit. Sony might be more difficult and more bound.
Also Battlemage will imho truly show if Intel gets closer and should also not be ignored for console speculations, especially not requiring a switch away from x86 and their xess and RT solution maybe following a similar approach to Nvidia's which might just be the better route.
ARM and Nvidia would certainly be interesting. Only downside is possibly that porting to PC would be a bit harder again, but MS has virtualisation locked down so might struggle not one bit. Sony might be more difficult and more bound.
Also Battlemage will imho truly show if Intel gets closer and should also not be ignored for console speculations, especially not requiring a switch away from x86 and their xess and RT solution maybe following a similar approach to Nvidia's which might just be the better route.
Schmendrick
Member
No one is talking about steam when talking about cheaper games on pc, albeit their sales can be great.
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RDNA 3 only made some minor tweaks to RT for around a 10% improvement overall. The 50% is basically just the rasterisation improvement, so of course AMD hasn't made up much ground.Oh right, just like that. They only have to ditch their hybrid RT model and start from scratch. And Nvidia has to stop progressing somehow in the meantime.
How many *upto* 1.5x it's gonna take each generations? RDNA 2 to RDNA 3 was 1.5x. What are you expecting out of RDNA 4?
But at some point they will adopt traversal acceleration and we should see much larger gains. Realistically Nvidia have not improved RT performance by a huge amount since Turing. In that graph, Ampere looks to be about 25% faster and Ada a few more percentage points faster still. So just matching where Nvidia was in 2018 will probably get them most of the way, barring some big improvement with Blackwell.
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Radical_3d
Member
Yes! This generation was already on the shelves when the Apple ARM revolution came but it’s clearly the way forward. And MS has a very good team implementing backwards compatibility so a layer to translate ARM to x64 isn’t impossible.
Nvidia would benefit a lot from the fabrication demands of consoles, there's a reason they literally gave the Tegra chipset to Nintendo. Also Sony were well aware of the limitations of the RSX, but they needed to launch the PS3 within the timeframe since it was already delayed as the Cell GPU wasn't up to scratch.
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winjer
Gold Member
I can see the reasoning for going nvidia, as they are leaders in RT and AI performance.
But there is no reason to go ARM, over X86. Quite the opposite, using X86 simplifies the process of back-compatibility and cross-platform with consoles and PCs.
SolidQ
Member
2006 year, G8x, but instead we get g7x with 128 bit, and both switch also have old.
Xbox is 2005 and get hardware before ATI releases 19xx
If you can't read that is your problem
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GymWolf
Member
Umm...yes?
Why going cheap with something that has a life span of 6 to 10 years and that is gonna guarantee THOUSANDS of hours of entartainment?!
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Buggy Loop
Member
Good point!
OMG, how could they deal with evil fleecing hard to negotiate with Nvidia??? /s
We’re holding bread crumb humours from over 20 years ago for OG Xbox and the other one is working with motherfucking insane period Ken Kutaragi.
It was supposed to run without GPUs (LOL)
They realized so late that shader less Cell processor would be a fuckup that they knocked on Nvidia’s door with not much time to make any product. They got a chip for being late (not as custom) and peoples were claiming that Nvidia was tough to deal with lol. Price is more expensive because of Nvidia! Certainly not Kutaragi’s monster and stupid architecture.
But those are all dinosaur era stories in the age of rapid technological race. Nobody holds a grudge so long in business when at one point it makes sense to do it
Hudo
Member
I dunno. It's just what I had heard at some point. I don't think it will make any difference if the next batch of consoles go with Nvidia or not for GPUs. Games looking good is not an interesting sales argument anymore. At least to me.
Buggy Loop
Member
So Sony selected "last gen" g7x and still managed in the end to have the crown of the best graphics of that gen.
Xbox is 2001
They missed ATI flipper? That's the big wow? Xbox dominated graphics in that era.
So basically, you're telling me that older gen Nvidia GPU were holding up if not better than ATI's best.
So Nvidia is a gen ahead of AMD. Gotcha.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
They don't move enough units to add nvidia.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Does Nvidia have a minimum console sales number? How many do they need to sell to use Nvidia tech?
Roxkis_ii
Member
Nivida doesn't seem like the frugal choice in this situation. Microsoft is at the point that they are willing to port first party games to other consoles to help with their ROI (I'm assuming), so it doesn't make since to do all that and risk reputational harm, to then go and have either a expensive console (comparably) or sell at a lose.
I don't think the accountants will let that slide.
I don't think the accountants will let that slide.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Nvidia charges more to be a partner.
You have to move many units to make them worthwhile.
Switch did and the next device will likely house nvidia again,xbox didn't when they had them and haven't used em since. PS3 sold a hair under 90 million and it wasn't enough to use them again.
Do we think the next xbox hardware is selling over 90 million?
SolidQ
Member
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Buggy Loop
Member
Those are old ass deals
You have any clue how much money Microsoft is dangling in front of AI chip suppliers for the next years? It's the equivalent to what Nasa spent to send men on the moon. They have insane leverage.
Which is not Nvidia so what's your point? Oh ATI gave Microsoft their old gen chipset before 19xx series. So a gen behind.
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MisterXDTV
Member
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
It's relevant which makes this thread not only unrealistic but dumb.
Exactly
SolidQ
Member
We talking about PS3 vs X360.
It's mix R520/R580 and Terrascale(R600). So not gen behind. It's NV as always gen behind
Switch Maxwell instead Pascal
Switch2 Ampere instead Lovelace, when even soon Blackwell
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Buggy Loop
Member
Oh yea, 2 decades old deal is very very relevant when they're negotiating relationships for the kinds of money that make gaming look like peanuts comparatively. You guys are funny as hell.
I'm sure Nintendo was 100% certain they would not have a Wii U repeat when they went Nvidia and negociated their contract... Everyone knew Switch would be a massive success
"What we’re really focused on there is delivering the largest technical leap you will have ever seen in a hardware generation"
Yeaaa, let's achieve that by using the same fucking supplier and architecture as the competition. Big brain move by Spencer there.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Previous answer I gave I give again
Buggy Loop
Member
Yes so Nvidia's old chip kept up with AMD's not old gen behind.
WaWaWeeWa!
So Nintendo picked the cheaper option of the available choices. All rumours point that they have a huge deal on X1.
Steam deck got RDNA 2 instead of the then soon released RDNA 3. Tsk tsk. Fucking AMD, always a gen behind.
And kind reminder that we know nothing about Switch 2 chipset. You're gonna bring up rumours from 2021? Cmon. MLID next?
Huh? Consoles are closed platforms and developers can have better access to the hardware than PC cards. And I didn't say anything about ditching GPU architecture,I said AMD can add custom hardware.
Getting tired of these nonsense takes
It's like +10% historically. Nvidia climbs up lately because of the AI craze, these cards are high margin as it's limited supply.
And it's almost impossible to estimate true actual margins if you include R&D and indirect expenses. Nvidia's huge leap in RT & AI does come at a cost.
Yeah for sure Microsoft a $3 Trillion company will just walk in Nvidia's office and get the price of a consumer picking up a GPU at Microcenter, after dealing already billions for AI chips and cloud servers and the biggest AI investment in history coming up in the next years on Microsoft side. They're piggybacking their way together to a $15T AI business by 2030. Truely Nvidia's advantage to fuck up that relationship. Truely regarded take.
Motherfucking cheap bastard penny clinching Nintendo McScrooge is going for second gen with them because we all know Nintendo likes to lose money from fleecing high margin / no services / hard to work with / insert any evil Nvidia internet bullshit / MILD Is nvidia dead?
You cracked the case!
It's MEME but he's absolutely right for AI cards. Those who missed the bus on orders are already feeling the burn.
Oh right, just like that. They only have to ditch their hybrid RT model and start from scratch. And Nvidia has to stop progressing somehow in the meantime.
How many *upto* 1.5x it's gonna take each generations? RDNA 2 to RDNA 3 was 1.5x. What are you expecting out of RDNA 4?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And how powerful is that dated chip Nintendo picked up because no other mobile wanted them at the time, and was dated when they got that surplus?
A new SOC from nVidia to be a massive leap for consoles will cost you the farm. They have no need to for that business model of 40-50m consoles if MS is lucky, may even be half that "next gen," when their entire business is tooled for A.I. and high end PC GPUs they already gouge consooomers in pricing.
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Buggy Loop
Member
And I don't think AMD is anywhere close to catching up to Nvidia in RT & ML. But I guess we're in the hope™ phase again with them.