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NHL February |OT| FIRE ALL THE THINGS

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Parch said:
A cap hit of $7.8M isn't ridiculously overpriced for a proven player like Nash. Especially when there are so many teams that are not spending the cap. There should be plenty of teams who would love to have Nash, but his NTC short list cuts down the options. Working out a deal with Vancouver and Philly is probably impossible if they're on that list. The teams with cap concerns should be the only teams who have a problem with Nash's cap hit.
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Proven? He's got 1 season over 70 points. For the 5th highest cap hit in the league, I'd want a little bit more proof than that. Can he produce more in a better situation? Probably, but nothing is a given, especially when you'd have to part with pieces you KNOW work.

All the contending teams that he wants to go are right near the cap. That's why they are where they are. If the Rangers trade for him, it might prevent them from signing McDonaugh, Stepan and MDZ when they need new contracts.
 
CBJ is probably trying to push Nash on everybody who is on his list. Make a bunch of stupid demands and see if anybody is stupid enough to bite, and then hope to work out a reasonable deal with whoever didn't hang up in disgust.
 
KingHenrik30 said:
Proven? He's got 1 season over 70 points.
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He's averaged 35 goals the last 4 seasons in Columbus. He didn't accumulate a ton of points, but that's very impressive in today's league.

Just read - he's 6th in the league in goals scored over the last 5 seasons. His cap hit is a bit high for his production, but not by much.
 
Fei said:
He's averaged 35 goals the last 4 seasons in Columbus. He didn't accumulate a ton of points, but that's very impressive in today's league.
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He's a great player. I'm sure he'd be able to up his game even further on a better team.
But 7.8 is the 5th biggest cap hit in the league. Right now he's not playing to that contract.
What he did in the past doesn't help a team playing right now. It's what he'll continue to do and can he produce.

Edit: His bullet last night with under 2 to go in the 3rd was awesome though.
 
KingHenrik30 said:
Why the Flyers would even want him is beyond me.

Interesting though that one of the Philly beat writers wrote that CBJ was trying to push Nash on the Flyers and not the other way around.
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Probably trying to undo the Carter trade and get Voracek and/or Couturier back and save his career.
 
KingHenrik30 said:
He's a great player. I'm sure he'd be able to up his game even further on a better team.
But 7.8 is the 5th biggest cap hit in the league. Right now he's not playing to that contract.
What he did in the past doesn't help a team playing right now. It's what he'll continue to do and can he produce.

Edit: His bullet last night with under 2 to go in the 3rd was awesome though.
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Just saying he's about as proven a goal scorer as it comes. Whether this year is just going to be a down year or the start of a downward trend is a fair question considering the dropoff in production players experience as they approach their 30's.
 
Fei said:
Just saying he's about as proven a goal scorer as it comes. Whether this year is just going to be a down year or the start of a downward trend is a fair question considering the dropoff in production players experience as they approach their 30's.
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Well it's not just this year, i mean, he's only got 1 season over 70 points. for that cash you would like to see that more consistently. And like you say, he's in his prime, but his numbers will more than likely start trending downward. In year 3 or 4 that contract could be a nightmare when you are trying to re-sign your young players.
Listen, I'd love to have Nash on my team. It's just that his cap hit and the asking price give MAJOR pause.
 
I mean, I'm not going to pretend I watch a lot of Columbus games, but I wouldn't be shocked to hear his linemates can't finish, which hurts his assists/points total. It's too bad there is no BJs-GAF at times like this.

There's just been a lot of posts this week saying "We don't need Rick Nash!" I understand that 7.8M is a huge number, but he will improve the vast majority of teams he moves to. Teams like Montreal or Toronto would be vastly improved with him in the lineup, and they can afford to put their overpaid guys (..like Gomez) in the minors to make it work.
 
Fei said:
I mean, I'm not going to pretend I watch a lot of Columbus games, but I wouldn't be shocked to hear his linemates can't finish, which hurts his assists/points total. It's too bad there is no BJs-GAF at times like this.

There's just been a lot of posts this week saying "We don't need Rick Nash!" I understand that 7.8M is a huge number, but he will improve the vast majority of teams he moves to. Teams like Montreal or Toronto would be vastly improved with him in the lineup, and they can afford to put their overpaid guys (..like Gomez) in the minors to make it work.
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How does rick nash fix Toronto's center problem? or the fact that they can't keep pucks out of the net? Montreal won't get him, but even they have bigger problems than Nash can fix. LA might be able to score more goals with Nash in the lineup than without, but at the end of the day they are still a borderline playoff team. He's not gonna go to some place and be the solution to a problem, otherwise he could just stay in Columbus.
 
Revenant said:
unless they look like this.

minnesota-wild-third-jersey-rbk.jpg
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Eh....these are better than the Islanders but I still don't like the front.
 
KingHenrik30 said:
How does rick nash fix Toronto's center problem? or the fact that they can't keep pucks out of the net? Montreal won't get him, but even they have bigger problems than Nash can fix.
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I'm not saying he will solve all of anyone's problems, but he definitely makes both teams better now and for the immediate future. I think Toronto's problem is they have a bunch of decent to good players, but with limited upside. I'd much rather be building around Kessel and Nash, who both have the potential to put up 40+ goals for the next 3-4 years, than a lot of the spare parts players they're working with right now. As a Sabres fan, I'd be really worried about Toronto if he went there.
 
Yeah, that's what we need. LA getting more nice pieces. Hey have Penner, oh he sucks? Well have Richards the- oh he's not your saviour? HERE HAVE NASH!

They had Gretzky and they still couldn't land a cup.
 
KingHenrik30 said:
Well it's not just this year, i mean, he's only got 1 season over 70 points. for that cash you would like to see that more consistently. And like you say, he's in his prime, but his numbers will more than likely start trending downward. In year 3 or 4 that contract could be a nightmare when you are trying to re-sign your young players.
Listen, I'd love to have Nash on my team. It's just that his cap hit and the asking price give MAJOR pause.
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I don't find his point totals concerning at all, dude had had to make all his offense himself since he was drafted. Him playing on a line with some actual hockey players would be incredibly scary. But yes, the asking price for that is very high.
 
Fei said:
I'm not saying he will solve all of anyone's problems, but he definitely makes both teams better now and for the immediate future. I think Toronto's problem is they have a bunch of decent to good players, but with limited upside. I'd much rather be building around Kessel and Nash, who both have the potential to put up 40+ goals for the next 3-4 years, than a lot of the spare parts players they're working with right now. As a Sabres fan, I'd be really worried about Toronto if he went there.
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Goaltending, Defense, Strength up the middle. That's the most effective way to build a winner. Strength up the middle and goaltending are not a strong suit for Toronto and Nash does nothing to fix that. If Toronto got Nash it wouldn't phase me in the least. We have three d-pairs that can shut guys down and one of the best goaltenders in the league. We also have a heap of defensive minded forwards, specifically up the middle. Nash has a better center to work with currently (Brassard) than anything he'd have in Toronto. Sorry Leafs fans, you know I love you, but just gotta be honest here.
 
I don't think at age 27 Rick Nash is going to start trending downward. Especially if he goes to a team where he has significantly better linemates. He's accomplished some quality numbers on a bad team with very little support. Threatening the 50 goal mark on a quality team wouldn't be impossible.
 
Parch said:
I don't think at age 27 Rick Nash is going to start trending downward. Especially if he goes to a team where he has significantly better linemates. He's accomplished some quality numbers on a bad team with very little support. Threatening the 50 goal mark on a quality team wouldn't be impossible.
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Read something recently about how most players like him do start to decline by this time. I'll have to find it.

Regardless, it's a risk with that cap hit. If his hit was a million less he'd have been traded already.
 
I want Nash. Players like him don't come around often. Don't want to give up too much of the future, with all the traded picks it's tough to justify that.

Schenn, Lupul + ???

I'm fine with trading those two pieces.

Nash's biggest strengths are Toronto's biggest weaknesses. He's a perfect fit here. Leafs let in a lot of goals, but a lot of it has to do with the style of the forwards. Puts way too much stress on the defense.

It won't solve all of the Leafs problems, but no one player will.
 
Wendel Clark said:
I want Nash. Players like him don't come around often. Don't want to give up too much of the future, with all the traded picks it's tough to justify that.

Schenn, Lupul + ???

I'm fine with trading those two pieces.

Nash's biggest strengths are Toronto's biggest weaknesses. He's a perfect fit here. Leafs let in a lot of goals, but a lot of it has to do with the style of the forwards. Puts way too much stress on the defense.

It won't solve all of the Leafs problems, but no one player will.
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Center.
 
I think whatever team gets Nash will end up being slightly disappointed. He's a great player, but he's not an elite one, and probably not worth as much as some team will inevitably overpay to get him. Especially because he's not a proven playoff performer, the one place where he could conceivably redeem his high price (not exactly his fault given where he plays, but it just adds to the gamble of going after him).
 
Wendel Clark said:
I want Nash. Players like him don't come around often. Don't want to give up too much of the future, with all the traded picks it's tough to justify that.

Schenn, Lupul + ???

I'm fine with trading those two pieces.

Nash's biggest strengths are Toronto's biggest weaknesses. He's a perfect fit here. Leafs let in a lot of goals, but a lot of it has to do with the style of the forwards. Puts way too much stress on the defense.

It won't solve all of the Leafs problems, but no one player will.
Click to expand...

iXMx17pptOERM.jpg
 
Wendel Clark said:
I want Nash. Players like him don't come around often. Don't want to give up too much of the future, with all the traded picks it's tough to justify that.

Schenn, Lupul + ???

I'm fine with trading those two pieces.

Nash's biggest strengths are Toronto's biggest weaknesses. He's a perfect fit here. Leafs let in a lot of goals, but a lot of it has to do with the style of the forwards. Puts way too much stress on the defense.

It won't solve all of the Leafs problems, but no one player will.
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I'd be hesitant in including Lupul as part of any package deal.

KingHenrik30 said:
Center.
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Leafs are OK in the centre position. Nothing beastly, but the team is decent enough. I'd be more concerned about scoring depth. Nash would solve that problem, or maybe Carter if the top six centre position is really such an issue.
 
Wendel Clark said:
I want Nash. Players like him don't come around often. Don't want to give up too much of the future, with all the traded picks it's tough to justify that.

Schenn, Lupul + ???

I'm fine with trading those two pieces.

Nash's biggest strengths are Toronto's biggest weaknesses. He's a perfect fit here. Leafs let in a lot of goals, but a lot of it has to do with the style of the forwards. Puts way too much stress on the defense.

It won't solve all of the Leafs problems, but no one player will.
Click to expand...
Nash is not a defensively responsible player, trading Schenn puts you guys in a nice defensive hole.
 
Parch said:
I don't think at age 27 Rick Nash is going to start trending downward. Especially if he goes to a team where he has significantly better linemates. He's accomplished some quality numbers on a bad team with very little support. Threatening the 50 goal mark on a quality team wouldn't be impossible.
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Uh, he's been trending downward since 2009.
 
Quick said:
I'd be hesitant in including Lupul as part of any package deal.



Leafs are OK in the centre position. Nothing beastly, but the team is decent enough. I'd be more concerned about scoring depth. Nash would solve that problem, or maybe Carter if the top six centre position is really such an issue.
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Scoring depth? Toronto is 7th/30. That's not their problem.

James Mirtle had a good article about why the Leafs don't need nash (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...cial+Network+/+Media&utm_source=twitter.com):

They have two of the league's top six scorers in Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupul, who are on pace for 85+ points, and the league's seventh highest scoring defenceman in Dion Phaneuf.

The Leafs have also allowed more goals than all but the Carolina Hurricanes and Tampa Bay Lightning in the East, with 2.91 per game and have the second worst penalty kill in the league.

And Toronto is tied for 24th in team save percentage, as their two goaltenders have been off and on all year.

Now, let's leave out any names for a moment. Does any of that description above scream out as that of a team in desperate need of an $8-million goal scorer with some defensive deficiencies?

Not really.
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But he is mostly a one-way player, and Toronto has a few of those already. If he's not scoring a ton of goals, he's simply not worth the contract that Columbus had to overpay on to keep him with the Blue Jackets.
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Also, heres what I was eluding to earlier (from same article):

Another key point is that Nash turns 28 years old in June. And while 28 doesn't seem very old, there's a growing body of evidence that goal scorers begin to decline at or even before that age.

Here's Neil Greenberg from the Washington Post with more on that front:

"History suggests elite goal scorers are often average goal scorers by the time they turn 27 years old. Most goal-scoring wingers peak between ages 23 and 25, and then the decline begins to accelerate after age 26."
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Also, if you are trying to win the Stanley Cup with Bozak, Connolly and Lombardi as your top 3 centers you aren't going to get very far.
 
So.. apparently Detroit is interested in Moen and would give up Xavier Ouellet (2nd round draftee in 2011), and a 2nd in 2012 for him.

I know Montreal would like to keep him. But would you guys take it for Moen?

And that fits the description of the offer that Toronto received for Grabovski... wonder if it's the same.. Dreger said it was a 2nd and a prospect..
 
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