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Nier: Automata's Is Excellent At "Genre Shifts" [Route B Gameplay Spoilers]

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Minor Automata spoilers, but only for a new gameplay mode officially introduced during the second playthrough

But before we talk about Nier: Automata, let's talk about Platinum's previous title The Wonderful 101. and Genre Shifts.

So, I'm relatively a Platinum newbie, having only played W101 and Nier (as well as past Kamiya-titles under Capcom, Devil May Cry, Viewtiful Joe, and Okami), but from my understanding Platinum loves mixing things up with their games by tossing in sudden genre shifts, glorified mini-games you could say that are usually required for base completion or significant completion, and this perhaps reached a peak with The Wonderful 101.

And not in a good way. You see, a genre shift in a game can be used for good if it allows the player to take a break from the normal rigamarole but there are three caveats I personally believe should be in place when a genre shift occurs:

* Does it make sense from the narrative/immersion aspect? The former is more important in games like Automata and such, but even games without deep plots should have their genre shifts still "obey" the rules of the game. Wonderful 101 actually obeys this for the most part, there's a reason for every genre-shift and you're still controlling the Wonderful 101, so it gets a pass here.

A negative example would be Donkey Kong 64's various mini-games---the ones where you directly play as a Kong are fine for the most part, they may be annoying but at least there's an explanation as to why they're happening, but the ones you often find in the Mini-Games Barrels are flagrantly "messed up" as quite a few of them have you nonsensically controlling a Kremling or even what is supposed to be the player I guess? Regardless of the quality of each genre shift, the fact you're suddenly no longer playing as your Kong makes them far less enjoyable and more egregious when they appear. If Beaver Bother let's say had the same exact mechanics (which aren't that bad when you learn the trick), but you actually were playing as say Tiny Kong, then I imagine it wouldn't be as notorious among players for how lame and unfitting it was.

* Does it forcibly overtake the main game? Now a lot of series end up facing this issue the longer they continue, especially Crash and Spyro suffering this in the third games of their original trilogies (Spyro more so), but in the case of most platformers the base game is simple enough and easy enough to learn that once the genre shift is over you can easily segue back into the main game without having to readjust your muscle memory. Wonderful 101 has genre shifts that occur quite frequently, and often at pivotal moments, and this problem is compounded by the fact that the base game is quite difficult and has a high learning-curve, and the continuous interruptions only hinder your ability to actually pull off what the main game demands of you.

I found myself continuously growing frustrated with the Wonderful 101 as every time I thought I got the hang of how the main controls work, I was flung into a sudden genre shift often with unique controls and found myself struggling to get my groove back once the main game resumed. The genre shifts only seemed to increase in frequency as the game progressed, culminating in a frustrating Punch-Out clone and a Button Mashing segment from hell, and it greatly soured the overall package.

* Is the difficulty balanced compared to the main game? Let's face it, when it comes to genre shifts you don't want something that's crazy difficult to the point it's almost impossible to proceed, but most players want some sort of challenge and said challenge usually should be in-line with the rest of the game. Donkey Kong Country for the most part does this well, as while the mine-cart levels are challenging they work more or less on the same reflex-based style as the main game does (the rocket ride levels less so perhaps, but they aren't that bad either). Then you have those difficult genre shifts in Spyro 2 and 3 that make you want to toss your controller aside. Wonderful 101 is all over the place though, with some genre shifts being so simple you wonder why they were included while other genre shifts seem just as complex as the main game. Thankfully Wonderful 101 is rather forgiving in terms of brute forcing your way through difficult parts of the game with low punishment for failing for those who simply want to get to the end of the plot, but for those looking to get a good score they really can fuck up your rank no matter how good you get at the actual game.

So, in summary, a genre shift must make sense narratively without breaking immersion, it must not overshadow the central game mechanics, and it must be balanced with the rest of the game---going too hard is usually more of an issue than too easy, the former being a roadblock while the latter might simply bore the player. That's how I see it at least, and some games perhaps don't need to follow this to the letter.

But, with those rules in mind, let's talk about Automata.

So, Automata has three central "genres" you encounter---there are some minor ones here and there, but they're all short, sweet, and mainly narrative driven. I'm not sure if you can even fail some of them as I never did.

* Flying Segments. The first one you're introduced to, and the only one that isn't optional---you HAVE to do all these segments if you wish to finish the main plot. In these segments you control a ship driven by the player character directly (it seems to function as a spinal cord of sorts) that shares their basic abilities in terms of being able to dodge and a weak/strong attack, but is far more maneuverable as a top-down "Bullet Hell" style game with heavy projectile use.

* Combat Segments. This takes the basic abilities part of the Flying Segments and is introduced second, and though you're now on the ground and have a different playing field to work with it's quite easy to adjust between the two when it first occurs at the beginning of the game---you already know how to do a quick dodge, light and strong attacks, and the general "flow" of the game thanks to the Flying Segments. The two flow into each other so well it's less of a genre shift and more of a way for the game to apply its basic fundamentals in different situations. I'd say THIS is the main genre.

* Hacking Segments. The last one you encounter, teased in Route A and becomes a prominent element in Route B, it ends up being perhaps THE most important genre to master of the entire game---and unlike the first two, there's no cheating through this with Chips. It's a Bullet Hell-style game like the Flying Segments with all the extras removed. You can't quick dodge, and you can't use any attacks other than basic projectiles, so it becomes all about learning patterns and avoiding the enemy's bullets. The basic elements of a Bullet Hell are picked up from the earlier Flying Segments, so it doesn't hit you too hard out of left-field, and the Hacking Segment distills the genre to its simplest form.

In a many games, such a genre shift like Hacking would be despised---but it works here, and part of that is due to how the game does such a good job at following the genre shift rules I laid out.

1. It works from a narrative perspective. Without going into too much spoiler territory, hacking is a fairly big characteristic of one of the main characters and using hacking as a way to deal with the enemy makes sense for them to do---furthermore, the way hacking is accomplished, as "Hollywood Hacking" as it may be, fits the tone of the game and the plot does some neat stuff with it. The final Hacking style-segment is perhaps one of the coolest narrative meets gameplay scenes I've seen in a game.

2. It doesn't forcibly overtake the main game, which most would consider to be the on-ground Combat Segments---nor does the Flying Segments. I never reached a segment where a genre shift occurred and thought "get me back to the main game!", as the main game is easy enough to learn that I never felt myself flustered once it was time to get back to sword-swinging. It also helps that the extended genre shifts are full of narrative prominence that you're entertained the whole way through.

Note I say "forcibly", and that's perhaps where Automata shines when it comes to hacking. When you first get the ability to do it full time, you really don't have to use it all that much till the plot pushes you to later on---but you quickly discover how useful it is at taking down enemies, stronger enemies having tougher Bullet Hell games, and thus the game trains you without forcing you. You'll likely get good at them way before you have to, because when you learn how potent hacking is you'll quickly pick up the basic patterns of each Bullet Hell game and how easy it actually is once you learn the fundamentals. And if you're having trouble picking it up at first, don't worry, the actual plot-relevant hacking segments have a nice steady progression in difficulty so if you don't get it right away you can take down enemies the old fashioned way with your sword.

3. The difficulty is balanced compared to the main game. Hell, I'd say the balance with the Hacking segments is perhaps the best since you can't cheat with Chips---the other two are perhaps too easy once you learn the right Chip combination, but in the end I'd say Automata does a good job at throwing you into each segment at the right time in-line with the difficulty so far, and the way the intro Flying Segment (which you do in both Path A, where combat is key, and Path B, where you use hacking more) basically splits into the other two genre shifts is a great idea that gives the game great cohesion you usually see lacking when games try to balance three styles like Sonic Adventure 2.

So, yeah, Automata is a pretty damn good game I'd say. I hope future Platinum games take the balance between genre shifts to heart, as do other companies, and developers think twice before throwing in genre shifts just to give the player "more to do".
 
The hacking definitely works and thank god for that, because I found the rest of Route B to be an almost unbearable slog.

Not a popular opinion, I'm sure. I do think Nier Automata does a lot of things really well though, including genre shifts.
 
The hacking definitely works and thank god for that, because I found the rest of Route B to be an almost unbearable slog.

Not a popular opinion, I'm sure. I do think Nier Automata does a lot of things really well though, including genre shifts.

I actually agree. 9S is nowhere near as fun as 2B.

Still though, great writeup, OP. I'd made the connection between the flight and hacking segments, plus the ground and flight segments, but never wove it all together as elegantly as you did. Even though the execution isn't always great, Taro's direction combined with Platinum's action make for a game that's really smart and thoughtful from a theoretical, architectural level. That's the part of Automata I find most fascinating, honestly more than the moment-by-moment action.
 

LotusHD

Banned
The hacking definitely works and thank god for that, because I found the rest of Route B to be an almost unbearable slog.

Not a popular opinion, I'm sure. I do think Nier Automata does a lot of things really well though, including genre shifts.

Hmm nah, Route B is pretty divisive. The only thing is that the people that like/loved it don't necessarily gush over it (Usually about Routes C and E for example), while there's a vocal minority that never hesitates to tell others that they did not enjoy the Route for the most part. Which is fine, I understand why due to obvious reasons.

My only thing is that I disagree with those that say to just combine the routes and give it no further thought than that. On my end, I feel like the best solution would be to make 9S more pleasurable to play as. I wouldn't change anything else.
 

Soar

Member
I think it speaks to Automata's strengths when it has bullet hell (which I despise/suck at) as an integral part of the experience and is still my GOAT. There were a few times where it made me swore and restart a dozen times but strangely enough never did put me off the game.

I agree that route B is not as fun, but it's still pretty interesting to see the events happening from his perspective.
 

Grisby

Member
Good write up. I think the hacking was executed pretty well although I grew to tire of it near the end of the game. Still, I don't think it impacts the core experience too much from an execution point of view. I didn't feel "interrupted" so to speak.

Route B was the lowest point of the game for me however, since 9s just wasn't as fun or interesting as 2b/Route C/D.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I think it speaks to Automata's strengths when it has bullet hell (which I despise/suck at) as an integral part of the experience and is still my GOAT. There were a few times where it made me swore and restart a dozen times but strangely enough never did put me off the game.

Well, "Bullet Hell" perhaps is exaggerating---it's probably nowhere near as difficult as hardcore ones, which I don't play either, but it does a good job at teaching you the basics of 'em.

You want to mainly watch your ship and not the enemies, and the basic pattern is the same no matter how many enemies there are---there's the invulnerable bullets which pretty much always move in a spiral, and then you have the the bullets you can break which tend to shoot out all around. If you keep your ship steady and rotate around the enemy shooting their orange breakable bullets, while avoiding the blue one, it makes pretty much ever battle easy enough though on occasion you might get tripped up or overwhelmed by the bullets. But I thought the game was a great crash course for the basics of Bullet Hells, and it's far easier than it seems by looking at it.

Well, till that one at the end lol...
but I think that might be unwinnable by design. Right?
 

N3DS

Member
I just wished you could upgrade to skip those intro level hacking mini game. They become very tedious and repetitive in later stage of the game.
 

Soar

Member
Well, "Bullet Hell" perhaps is exaggerating---it's probably nowhere near as difficult as hardcore ones, which I don't play either, but it does a good job at teaching you the basics of 'em.

You want to mainly watch your ship and not the enemies, and the basic pattern is the same no matter how many enemies there are---there's the invulnerable bullets which pretty much always move in a spiral, and then you have the the bullets you can break which tend to shoot out all around. If you keep your ship steady and rotate around the enemy shooting their orange breakable bullets, while avoiding the blue one, it makes pretty much ever battle easy enough though on occasion you might get tripped up or overwhelmed by the bullets. But I thought the game was a great crash course for the basics of Bullet Hells, and it's far easier than it seems by looking at it.

Well, till that one at the end lol...
but I think that might be unwinnable by design. Right?

Actually when I said bullet hell i meant the hacking games, not the fighter/mecha segments. Those were easy but you were right in that it's a good training tool for those sort of games and I lost my apprehension so it's consequently a win :). Yeah i think the
last one is indeed by design.
 

Corpekata

Banned
I think the flying bullet hell stuff was fun and good but the hacking stuff left a lot to be desired, especially as it neutered your moveset. Hated route B for the most part from a gameplay perspective. I was constantly pushing through it with ""get me back to the main game!" in mind that you said the game doesn't suffer from.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I think the flying bullet hell stuff was fun and good but the hacking stuff left a lot to be desired, especially as it neutered your moveset. Hated route B for the most part from a gameplay perspective.

You see I was on the other side, I found the flying segments easy enough with all your options that the simpler and more restrictive hacking segments were quite fun. And once you get into the hacking segments the flying segments basically disappear except for the repeats from Path A (which come before all the plot-related hacking stuff of Path B), which is good because I don't think I'd wanna go back to having all those options and Chip buffs in the flying segments.

A good example of how removing gameplay elements can be cool if done wisely.
 

J_Viper

Member
I just wished you could upgrade to skip those intro level hacking mini game. They become very tedious and repetitive in later stage of the game.

Yep. I loathed the hacking.

The drop in quality between Route A and B is my personal biggest disappointment of the year.
 
I like that the bullet hell sequences level scale. They're perfectly balanced if you play on hard and without a cheating chip setup. Two hits, regardless of your level, and you're dead. One hit kills (as on very hard) is too punishing, and 10 or so hits (normal) way too forgiving for the bullet hell genre. It's good you CAN trivialize it though for people who completely suck at shmups

Shame that the difficulty balancing in all the other parts of the game is so bad (normal way too easy, hard way too hard unless you cheese with defense buffs which will cause the game to crash if you enter the menu during battle to use items too many times, and then even hard becomes too easy as you overlevel due to side quests)

I agree with OP, the hacking game was perfectly balanced
 
Yep. I loathed the hacking.

The drop in quality between Route A and B is my personal biggest disappointment of the year.

A and C were so great I can give B a pass. I know what they were trying to do with B, but I wasn't a big fan. Overall it's my favorite game of all time.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Preferred A's gameplay to B by far, and I was pretty good at hacking.
 

Heroman

Banned
Excellemt I thought that the flying segment we're good awful, the hacking terrible and the combat mediocre.
 
At first, I HATED the shift from A to B, but with a bit of modifications to your loadout, hacking becomes THE MOST OVERPOWERED THING EVER, making it pretty neat.

It also got me into SHMUPs so... Bonus!
 
Playing as 2B is the worst part of the game.

Actually meant 9S. The hacking got old too fast in combat but I did like the story related hacking bits.
 

Franziska

Member
Hacking was fun, but with the same levels appearing again and again it just gets annoying. Plus it reduces 9Ss battle complexity by removing heavy attack.

Game breaking config:
Besides, with the auto heal chips you
can simply go into the hacking mode to have most of your health restored, which kills any challenge until route C. In the unretriable ones you just regenerate so it is also easier than the main combat.


However, yeah in general Nier Automata does the transitions pretty well. Especially between the free hack and slash and (Route A spoilers) :
the Contra like sections (abandoned factory, forest etc.) .
 
I just wished you could upgrade to skip those intro level hacking mini game. They become very tedious and repetitive in later stage of the game.

Yeah, this is a good point.

The easiest hacking games were way too easy to be fun

Game could also have made with more variations of the hacking games so you don't repeat ones as often
 

Mossybrew

Member
The hacking definitely works and thank god for that, because I found the rest of Route B to be an almost unbearable slog.

Not a popular opinion, I'm sure. I do think Nier Automata does a lot of things really well though, including genre shifts.

I got the game maybe six weeks ago, but about two weeks ago, maybe halfway into the B run, I just totally lost interest. Slog is right, just too much repetition. I keep telling myself I have to go back, there are so many things I like about the game, but I'm just not feeling it. I didn't enjoy the hacking aspect at all.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
I personally really enjoyed Route B. I finished most of the side quest in Route A so most quests in Route B was new. I honestly believe we got much more interesting quests in Route B than we did in A.

I also set up my 9S to focus more on hacking and range attacks, so for me I never got bored playing as him.
 

LotusHD

Banned
I personally really enjoyed Route B. I finished most of the side quest in Route A so most quests in Route B was new. I honestly believe we got much more interesting quests in Route B than we did in A.

I also set up my 9S to focus more on hacking and range attacks, so for me I never got bored playing as him.

Lol yea, I too used Route B to get some sidequests out the way, then I just wrapped it up in the same day.

My 2nd time playing through the entire game, I gave 9S the best spear in the game, made things a lot more enjoyable, having him chuck it at machines, controlling them and what not.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Im of two minds about the hacking. On one hand it does get repetitive, but I also think it fits the theme of the game. It'd be weird if the game was consistently fresh and fun to play given the message it's trying to say.
 

kubricks

Member
I prefer Route B to A.

Equip a spear, put Stun and Combust chips on, and go to town

I just throw energy charged spear all day long lol. The forced hacking section is not that hard to deal with even if you don't like it.

I can't deny I had a lot more fun on route A and C though.
 
They should have done something a bit more complicated with hacking, like maybe certain pod programs as abilities in the hack or more interesting enemies. There definitely are better examples in other twinsticks shooters, and given how much hacking there is I think it would have greatly benefited the game since route B is quite the slog for many people. Thankfully A2 makes the game great again because that hyper mode is just so damn good.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Seriously. This game has crazy amount of customization.

My 2B was balanced between ranged and melee

9S was all about hacking ranged and pod programs

A2, because she was older model and she has no blindfolds I took out all HUD chips and entirely focus on melee and counters.

Non of the routes became boring to me.
 
Hacking in Nier:A has caused me so much undue pain and frustration I've put the game on an extended hiatus. Ugh, f*ck the hacking mini games.
 

Type-Zero

Member
Man if you want genre shifts you gotta play the first nier. That game really switched it up on the player and surprised me.
 

ghibli99

Member
I liked the way it changed up the gameplay expectations of the player. Gestalt focused on the narrative changes, but didn't do much in the way of gameplay ones, if any IIRC. That being said, I liked the story and characters of Gestalt better than Automata, even though I liked the gameplay smoothness and variety of Automata better. Both excellent games, and no matter what, I'm glad lots of new players got to experience the Nier universe this year.
 
Lmao same, the level scaling in this game is the one big thing about this game that annoyed me.

The lv 130 special coliseum battle challenge in the DLC had some unique hacking.

Unfortunately, it takes a while to get to, and you die in one hit, lol

ain't nobody got time for that

I liked the way it changed up the gameplay expectations of the player. Gestalt focused on the narrative changes, but didn't do much in the way of gameplay ones, if any IIRC. That being said, I liked the story and characters of Gestalt better than Automata, even though I liked the gameplay smoothness and variety of Automata better. Both excellent games, and no matter what, I'm glad lots of new players got to experience the Nier universe this year.

dat
text adventure
section in gestalt tho
 

LotusHD

Banned
The lv 130 special coliseum battle challenge in the DLC had some unique hacking.

Unfortunately, it takes a while to get to, and you die in one hit, lol

ain't nobody got time for that

This game was easily my GOTY and all, but I didn't bother with the DLC. Didn't seem to be worth the cost, and I'm not really interested in doing stuff for the challenge and what not.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Lmao same, the level scaling in this game is the one big thing about this game that annoyed me.

I have to agree, the difficulty in this game is not really well balanced. on normal difficulty, its a cake walk on hard even some trash enemies can on shot u.

this my biggest grip with this game.
 

Semblance

shhh Graham I'm still compiling this Radiant map
We really calling that basic ass twin-stick shooter minigame "bullet hell" now
 

kubricks

Member
Lmao same, the level scaling in this game is the one big thing about this game that annoyed me.

The game's balance is weird, the character's level make too much impact to the damage on both ends.

Playing on Hard is more of annoyance than challanging, you just remove ATK buff chip and install defence/hp chip and proceed as normal while without lock-on....
 

LotusHD

Banned
The game's balance is weird, the character's level make too much impact to the damage on both ends.

Playing on Hard is more of annoyance than challanging, you just remove ATK buff chip and install defence/hp chip and proceed as normal while without lock-on....

I tried doing Hard, but yea, was more annoying overall. Going all in with defense didn't help much either, so I quickly realized there wasn't much point, and just stuck with Normal. I'm in it for the story, but I also wanna look cool, and Hard mode was not helping with that lol
 
This game was easily my GOTY and all, but I didn't bother with the DLC. Didn't seem to be worth the cost, and I'm not really interested in doing stuff for the challenge and what not.

It wasn't worth the money, lol. But I wanted to support yoko taro. And after you complete all the challenge parts, there was some semi-interesting story stuff that fleshes out the
machine spear
weapon story

The game's balance is weird, the character's level make too much impact to the damage on both ends.

yup
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
The lv 130 special coliseum battle challenge in the DLC had some unique hacking.

Unfortunately, it takes a while to get to, and you die in one hit, lol
I actually really enjoyed fighting them. even tho they were Lv 130 and can one shot u, they can still be staggered and u could launch them. they were really difficult but fun to fight.

I hated the
gold enemies.
because those guys didn't react to any of your attacks and had crazy amount of health.
 
The first time I saw that hacking minigame in the Simone bossfight I was dumbstruck. The game already feels so incredible under the thumbs, so slick and responsive, and all of a sudden now it's seemlessly slipping between regular action gameplay and twin-stick shooting in the middle of a bossfight. Platinum da gawds.

By the time I got to Route B I was less enthused by it, but I was never really put off by 9S's gameplay. I was always playing around with different OS chip loadouts and weapons, and the hacking minigame is pretty inoffensive. My only complaint with Route B was just the reality of having to play through the same events all over again. Not the end of the world, I suppose, but it put me off wanting to do a full replay of the game. Once I'd finished Route E I definitely wanted to start over again from the beginning, but knowing I'd be playing through Route A and B again, after having essentially already played it twice the first time around, was a bit much for me.
 

LotusHD

Banned
I actually really enjoyed fighting them. even tho they were Lv 130 and can one shot u, they can still be staggered and u could launch them. they were really difficult but fun to fight.

I hated the
gold enemies.
because those guys were didn't react to any of your attacks and had crazy amount of health.

Well the gold enemies were something 9S is ideally supposed to handle actually, as hacking easily beats them. Gets some brief dialogue from his encounters with them, though I don't know if 2B does.
 

kubricks

Member
Well the gold enemies were something 9S is ideally supposed to handle actually, as hacking easily beats them.

I didn't know about 9S back then and kill them with 2B...... Lt's just say I had great fun chipping away the mountain by a chisel lol.
 
Route A is wonderful, but route B is where it got real. And I can even pinpoint where with extreme accuracy:
Simone
. Although I enjoy playing with 2B more, 9S offered a prettier, more ecstatic experience.

Beautiful OP man, thank you for the read. I love every chance I get to be hyperbolic about this game lol.
 
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