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Nintendo Digital Downloads - April 2009 (VC/WiiWare/DSiWare)

swerve

Member
Sep 14, 2006
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VOOK said:
Ah so it's not me being a dumb westerner and not knowing how to do it. :lol

Oh, no it does work most of the time. But sometimes it makes the whole screen go checkered.

To make it work, go to the settings (spanner) from the main screen, and change your pencil box (筆箱)to advanced (上級)。
 

Somnid

Member
Aug 9, 2006
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Hobbun said:
One of the things I really had hoped for was that Nintendo (or whomever the publisher is for such game or games) would take the time and money to translate them. But apparently the games put on the VC is only wanted done easily. I would have no issues paying the extra money to have them localized.

It just means we never will see games like Seiken Denetsu III, Bahamut Lagoon, Final Fantasy II, III and V or numerous other classics that never made it to NA (or other regions). Which really is disappointing.


There are two problems with doing this.

First is that it needs to be profitable. They can charge more but also, people have to buy it. The market for these is really small so it needs to be a small scale project. If they charge more then it cuts the market even more, so there is a trade off. Also, the game itself may not be that good or even if it is how do you get people interested in it? Obviously advertising is costly and probably not worth the effort for a single VC game or even a small group. They have to count on NeoGAF and any other sort of "word of mouth" outlet.

Second is the actual translation itself. It has been speculated that the source code for these games may not still exist or if it does you basically need someone to go in there and figure it out which takes a lot of time and effort especially since older code will not be nearly as nice as it is today in terms of readability. From there you run the risk of breaking it, or introducing emulation issues that need to be ironed out. If the source doesn't exist you are limited to making only small changes to avoid breaking it which can be art or string swaps that are the same length as those found in the game to avoid shifting addresses. N64 games being the most modern are also probably the easiest to alter because they probably have a lot more documentation and are easier to deal with in general because the game source likely still exists and can be recompiled. This may be why they've actually made changes to those more than anything else.
 

Hobbun

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Dec 9, 2008
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Somnid said:
There are two problems with doing this.

First is that it needs to be profitable. They can charge more but also, people have to buy it. The market for these is really small so it needs to be a small scale project. If they charge more then it cuts the market even more, so there is a trade off. Also, the game itself may not be that good or even if it is how do you get people interested in it? Obviously advertising is costly and probably not worth the effort for a single VC game or even a small group. They have to count on NeoGAF and any other sort of "word of mouth" outlet.

Second is the actual translation itself. It has been speculated that the source code for these games may not still exist or if it does you basically need someone to go in there and figure it out which takes a lot of time and effort especially since older code will not be nearly as nice as it is today in terms of readability. From there you run the risk of breaking it, or introducing emulation issues that need to be ironed out. If the source doesn't exist you are limited to making only small changes to avoid breaking it which can be art or string swaps that are the same length as those found in the game to avoid shifting addresses. N64 games being the most modern are also probably the easiest to alter because they probably have a lot more documentation and are easier to deal with in general because the game source likely still exists and can be recompiled. This may be why they've actually made changes to those more than anything else.

I can certainly see your reasoning on it having to be profitable. Not only for Nintendo, but for the publisher of the game being localized (if it isn't Nintendo). However, what I think they should do is put out surveys. Nintendo could put out a poll to access from a message on the Wii Menu. I really do think the market is larger than they may think. They should at least try to see what the market is before assuming.

As for the 'bad code'. No offense, but that is a bs excuse. I mean there have been remakes of older (NES) games that have turned out just fine. The only rumors I have heard about bad code (or maybe it was lost code) was with Secret of Mana, and we have seen that game released on the VC.

Of course these localizations projects would need to be done with said publishers (if not a Nintendo game) but I am sure they have they still have the code to localize it and the know how to do so.
 

Cheesemeister

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Feb 14, 2005
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Hobbun said:
I can certainly see your reasoning on it having to be profitable. Not only for Nintendo, but for the publisher of the game being localized (if it isn't Nintendo). However, what I think they should do is put out surveys. Nintendo could put out a poll to access from a message on the Wii Menu. I really do think the market is larger than they may think. They should at least try to see what the market is before assuming.

There is only one poll: sales numbers. If you want to see FFII, III, and V, you'd best buy FFI when it arrives. Vote with your wallet.
 

evilromero

Member
Jun 15, 2004
18,258
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I've got a quite a few VC and WiiWare titles on my buy list but at this rate I'll remain a rich man.

To fucking buy:
Pilotwings
Pilotwings 64
Icarian Spirits
And a bunch of other shit I can't of right now.
 

mclem

Member
Jan 16, 2007
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Hobbun said:
As for the 'bad code'. No offense, but that is a bs excuse. I mean there have been remakes of older (NES) games that have turned out just fine. The only rumors I have heard about bad code (or maybe it was lost code) was with Secret of Mana, and we have seen that game released on the VC.

Do you mean remakes, or do you mean VC releases? If you mean remakes, they're completely rebuilt from the ground up, and have none of the original code in them. If you mean VC releases, those are just the ROM plugged into an emulator; the ROM itself is (generally, there are exceptions) unchanged.

SoM was released on the VC because it could be released in an entirely unchanged form; they just had to plug the dumped ROM into it. It didn't matter whether or not the code was available.
 

Balb

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Dec 14, 2007
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I've been thinking of getting SMB2 (J) on VC but I'm wondering if it's worth it or not. I have the All-Stars remake but I'm interested in this version because it's tougher. However, I don't want to be stuck with 3 lives from the beginning with no continues. Is that how it works in 2? Or is there a save/continue system?
 

Capndrake

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Mar 22, 2007
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Balb said:
I've been thinking of getting SMB2 (J) on VC but I'm wondering if it's worth it or not. I have the All-Stars remake but I'm interested in this version because it's tougher. However, I don't want to be stuck with 3 lives from the beginning with no continues. Is that how it works in 2? Or is there a save/continue system?
No, you've got endless continues. Whenever you continue you'll appear at the start of the first level of the current world.
 

Hobbun

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Dec 9, 2008
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mclem said:
Do you mean remakes, or do you mean VC releases? If you mean remakes, they're completely rebuilt from the ground up, and have none of the original code in them. If you mean VC releases, those are just the ROM plugged into an emulator; the ROM itself is (generally, there are exceptions) unchanged.

Well, I was referring to both. I guess it makes sense remakes are built from the ground up. But what about ports? Which we have gotten without any issues of there being older code.

mclem said:
SoM was released on the VC because it could be released in an entirely unchanged form; they just had to plug the dumped ROM into it. It didn't matter whether or not the code was available.

I just remember hearing rumors about how SoM would not make it to the VC because SE lost a portion or most of the code. And the code was needed to put on the VC. Which as we know, was not the case.
 

Kobun Heat

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Jun 6, 2004
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Balb said:
I've been thinking of getting SMB2 (J) on VC but I'm wondering if it's worth it or not. I have the All-Stars remake but I'm interested in this version because it's tougher. However, I don't want to be stuck with 3 lives from the beginning with no continues. Is that how it works in 2? Or is there a save/continue system?
What Capndrake said, but also -- you can do the 100-lives Koopa-stomping trick right at the very beginning of World 1-1 in SMB2.
 

mclem

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Jan 16, 2007
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Hobbun said:
Well, I was referring to both. I guess it makes sense remakes are built from the ground up. But what about ports? Which we have gotten without any issues of there being older code.
What sort of thing are you talking about when you say 'ports'? I would imagine that most of them are fundamentally remakes that just happen to not have any updated content, but it'd help to understand your point of reference. Do you have a specific title in mind?

I just remember hearing rumors about how SoM would not make it to the VC because SE lost a portion or most of the code. And the code was needed to put on the VC. Which as we know, was not the case.
Unless there was anything that had to be modified - like with Earthbound - I don't really see why lack of source would be a problem here. I'm curious as to the derivation of this rumour.
 

Somnid

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Aug 9, 2006
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Hobbun said:
Well, I was referring to both. I guess it makes sense remakes are built from the ground up. But what about ports? Which we have gotten without any issues of there being older code.

It is actually easier in many cases to rebuild large sections of a game than try and squeeze new things into the same package. Even stuff like MMAC was rebuilt, not ported. They were simply simulating the behavior of an NES, not emulating it and therefore the restrictions are different (in reality significantly more laxed). Also, any port or remake you've seen so far has probably started at $30 and it sold at retail. That's a pretty big difference that trying to alter the content of a VC game. For example, Famicom Wars would be an easy port since it just needs the menus done which are art assets that can be altered. Seiken Densetsu 3 is not because converting to english text wouldn't physically fit into the space that is given nor would it display properly in a textbox without alterations. The fan-translation was incredibly sophisticated and contained a lot of hacks.
 
So I've wasted way too much time playing Crystal Defenders R1 lately. Probably due to lack of people trying these stages many times, but I'm in the top 50 scores for one of the two online rankable stages.

Anyway, I wanted to be able to make some wiser in-game use of my gil, so I wrote down the stats and costs of the various unit levels. Surely I'm not the first, but I didn't see such a thing at GameFAQs, so hey.
 

Hobbun

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Dec 9, 2008
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mclem said:
What sort of thing are you talking about when you say 'ports'? I would imagine that most of them are fundamentally remakes that just happen to not have any updated content, but it'd help to understand your point of reference. Do you have a specific title in mind?

Well, Chrono Trigger DS would be an example. It wasn't truly remade, the main structure of the game remained, but had some minor additons, like a couple added dungeons. So do you feel they rebuilt the code for the game? Even though it remained the same for the most part?

mclem said:
Unless there was anything that had to be modified - like with Earthbound - I don't really see why lack of source would be a problem here. I'm curious as to the derivation of this rumour.

I don't remember concrete info on the rumor. Basically what was said was that their 'sources in SE' indicated that large portions of the code was lost so SoM would most likely not make it to the VC.

I guess it doesn't really matter anyways as it appears it was a baseless rumor considering the game did make it in the end.
 

Hobbun

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Dec 9, 2008
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Somnid said:
It is actually easier in many cases to rebuild large sections of a game than try and squeeze new things into the same package. Even stuff like MMAC was rebuilt, not ported. They were simply simulating the behavior of an NES, not emulating it and therefore the restrictions are different (in reality significantly more laxed). Also, any port or remake you've seen so far has probably started at $30 and it sold at retail. That's a pretty big difference that trying to alter the content of a VC game. For example, Famicom Wars would be an easy port since it just needs the menus done which are art assets that can be altered. Seiken Densetsu 3 is not because converting to english text wouldn't physically fit into the space that is given nor would it display properly in a textbox without alterations. The fan-translation was incredibly sophisticated and contained a lot of hacks.

Hmm, I guess I see your point. Still, can't say I'm not disappointed. I was hoping the VC was the venue where I could see these classics where I wouldn't have been able to play them, otherwise. Oh well.
 

Capndrake

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Mar 22, 2007
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NoE's site lists four games for tonight, including both VC and WW, which would mean they're finally stopping their alternating VC/WW crap:

-A Little Bit of... Dr. Mario (DSiWare)
-A Little Bit of... Magic Made Fun: Funny Face (DSiWare)
-Bit.Trip Beat (WiiWare)
-Galaxy Force II (Mega Drive)
 

Cosmonaut X

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Jun 5, 2006
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Many thanks, Capndrake - I've updated with that info. It's unusual to see a combined week, and unusual to see early PR, but NoE seem to be adjusting their position with the system recently. Not only do we seem to be getting more early announcements, they've also been promoting the service heavily on their website and by email.

EDIT:

And for anyone who's interested, the breakdown of release by region over April looks something like this (assuming I've not missed any releases):

United States
VC - 4 releases
WiiWare - 4 releases
DSiWare - 12 releases

TOTAL - 20

Europe & Australasia
VC - 4 releases
WiiWare - 6 releases
DSiWare - 10 releases

TOTAL - 20

Japan
VC - 12 releases
WiiWare - 13 releases
DSiWare - 13 releases

TOTAL - 38
 

TJ Spyke

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Oct 5, 2005
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This weeks Virtual Console update. North America got 1 new game and PAL regions got 1 new game. Should I start including WiiWare/DSiWare in the weekly update?

This is the current VC list.

North America, but not PAL regions:
NES- The Legend of Kage, Elevator Action, Milon's Secret Castle, Lode Runner, Star Soldier, Super C (available in EU, not in AUS), NES Play Action Football, Ninja Gaiden II: The Dark Sword of Chaos, Zanac, Ghosts 'n Goblins (available in EU, not AUS), Ninja Gaiden III: The Ancient Ship of Doom, King's Knight, Bases Loaded, Renegade, Sky Kid, Super Dodge Ball, Tecmo Bowl, Zoda's Revenge: StarTropics II, Life Force

SNES- Romance of the Three Kingdoms IV: Wall of Fire, Metal Marines, Axelay (available in AUS, not EU), Super Turrican 2, Kirby's Dream Land 3, Ogre Battle: The March of the Black Queen, Uncharted Waters: New Horizons, Nobunaga's Ambition

GEN/MD- Powerball, M.U.S.H.A., Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure

TG16 & TG16CD- Bravoman, Ordyne, Bomberman '94, Detana!! TwinBee

PAL regions, but not North America:
NES- Skate or Die!, Devil World

SNES- Mario's Super Picross

N64- The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

MS- Rambo: First Blood Part II (called Secret Commando in Europe)

GEN/MD- Crack Down, ESWAT: City Under Siege, ClayFighter, Galaxy Force II

Europe and North America, but not Australia:
C64 (in EU, not NA)- Uridium, California Games, Impossible Mission, World Games, Paradroid, Last Ninja 2: Back with a Vengeance, Nebulus, Cybernoid: The Fighting Machine, International Karate +, Boulder Dash, Jumpman, Mayhem in Monsterland, Impossible Mission II, Last Ninja 3: Real Hatred is Timeless, Winter Games

Total: 34 in North America only, 9 in EU/AUS only, 15 in EU only, 6 in NA and EU, 1 in NA and AUS.