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[TheGreatMightyPoo]

It has zero third party support and is completely dead In Europe. I'll be surprise if it last 2 more years.

Plan on being very surprised.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

It seems like people kept saying that Vita has a high attach rate. Can someone provide any link for this? I'm really curious.

Last NPD.

 

[kinggroin]

Like I said Scrooge Mcduck, Staying rich can simply involving conserving and minimising costs. Scrooge isn't rich for no reason. It's a common trait for many that have amassed and continue to amass wealth.

So long as this means my kid's kids will be able to play their games, I'm cool with it.

 

[DragonSworne]

Hopefully people will stop using the bullshit excuse that Nintendo can't compete with Sony and MS on hardware power since they are a smaller company.

 

[Ecotic]

Thanks for this and all the other posts guys. Very interesting. I often wonder if Sony went below $10 would it be worth MS buying them, cutting the fat and merging Playstation and Xbox.

Here's the thing, Sony is saddled with unbelievable debt, that's why their market capitalization is so small. In fact, Sony's bonds are rated as junk or little better by most investment authority companies and organizations, such as Moody's Anaystics or Fitch. If Microsoft ever thought to buy them they would have to use their own money to pay off the debts just to get Sony and its assets to make use of them.

When comparing the size of Nintendo and Sony, think of it like this. Sony is the far larger company, they have more hands in more cookie jars, but their overall valuation is severely brought down by debt. Nintendo, while being a much smaller company in terms or products or employees is now seen as more valuable because they have next to no debt and what they do have in terms of assets outweighs Sony purely because of Sony's debt and their inability to generate profit to eliminate it.

 

[StoopKid]

Plan on being very surprised.

Nintendo is gonna need a miracle to save that system in Europe.

 

[UncleSporky]

Sony selling a failing handheld in a landscape currently being taken over by mobile.

You mean 3DS.

 

[RM8]

Hopefully people will stop using the bullshit excuse that Nintendo can't compete with Sony and MS on hardware power since they are a smaller company.

My opinion has always been that Nintendo doesn't need any excuse to have a different focus on their hardware, lol.

 

[Zombie James]

You guys will eventually have to deal with the fact that the Wii U isn't going anywhere.

Us guys? If Nintendo wants to keep it around, that's their problem to deal with.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Wow, quite the argument you have there.

Well, past threads passive aggressiveness and the paranoia of some fans tell me a lot.

 

[Aizu_Itsuko]

Yet whenever the topic comes up about competing with Sony, you almost always hear "they can't afford to compete on technology" or "they can't afford to buy third-party support" (paraphrasing, of course). Nintendo can't be both rich and poor.

To be fair, if you compare both companies in all aspects, Sony as a whole is just massive. That's kind of the problem actually, too much "fat" eating their profits.

But, yeah, Nintendo isn't exactly living in a van down by the river. They can afford quite a few things actually, they are just far more risk averse. Both companies could learn a couple of things from each other (things aren't that easy though).

 

[Oriel]

Speaking of stock... hey, what's the discussion of this thread is about again?



But of course.

How great Nintendo has been doing?

 

[DragonSworne]

My opinion has always been that Nintendo doesn't need any excuse to have a different focus on their hardware, lol.

Nintendo can do both at no extra cost, have a hardware gimmick and a powerful system.

Don't be fooled, Nintendo trades hardware power for their useless obsession on small form factor and low power draw.

 

[ciridesu]

Market cap isn't really the best way of determining the 'size' of a company

 

[Principate]

How great Nintendo has been doing?

See that rise it's progress! But honestly Nintendo is cutting down on it's dividends, so I imagine it's mostly the potential for change in strategy is what pulling them in.

 

[dragonfart28]

Here's the thing, Sony is saddled with unbelievable debt, that's why their market capitalization is so small. In fact, Sony's bonds are rated as junk or little better by most investment authority companies and organizations, such as Moody's Anaystics or Fitch. If Microsoft ever thought to buy them they would have to use their own money to pay off the debts just to get Sony and its assets to make use of them.

When comparing the size of Nintendo and Sony, think of it like this. Sony is the far larger company, they have more hands in more cookie jars, but their overall valuation is severely brought down by debt. Nintendo, while being a much smaller company in terms or products or employees is now seen as more valuable because they have next to no debt and what they do have in terms of assets outweighs Sony purely because of Sony's debt and their inability to generate profit to eliminate it.

So what you're saying is.. If Sony buys Nintendo, they'll no longer be in debt!

 

[Laughing Banana]

How great Nintendo has been doing?

Ouch.

 

[Tripon]

The Wii U won't see another Christmas though.

Nah, it'll see some form of support until at least 2016. NES got 5 years of support(85-91), SNES got 5 years of support(91-96), N64 got about 5 years of support(96-01), Gamecube got about 5 years of support(01-06), Wii got about 5 years of support(06-11), and the Wii U will get about 5 years of support.

And that support will likely be shitty by year 4-5, but it'll get some sort of support.

 

[Sandfox]

Nintendo can do both at no extra cost, have a hardware gimmick and a powerful system.
/QUOTE]
That really depends on the gimmick.

 

[Wynnebeck]

You mean 3DS.

lol Good lord man.

 

[RM8]

Nintendo can do both at no extra cost, have a hardware gimmick and a powerful system.

Don't be fooled, Nintendo trades hardware power for their useless obsession on small form factor and low power draw.

I believe that Wii and DS were great ideas. DS in particular is my favorite gaming platform ever, as someone who as owned every Nintendo and Sony system except for WiiU, Vita and PS4 (will eventually buy those too).

I think it's stupid that people think Nintendo has any obligation of making a powerful console. If you don't like modest hardware, don't buy Nintendo. If this hurts Nintendo, then it was their fault. But acting as if capable hardware sells systems or makes them successful is ridiculous. PS3 is Sony's biggest disaster in ages despite selling great, no one ever should aim to repeat a PS3-like system and proof of that is that Sony didn't.

BTW small form factor is a selling point to me (I sold my PS3 Phat to buy a Slim, I prefer GB Micro, DS Lite and OG 3DS, etc.)

 

[Log4Girlz]

The Wii U won't see another Christmas though.

It will see two more at least. They will not kill it before this upcoming holiday (nearly a year from now).

 

[DragonSworne]

I believe that Wii and DS were great ideas. DS in particular is my favorite gaming platform ever, as someone who as owned every Nintendo and Sony system except for WiiU, Vita and PS4 (will eventually buy those too).

I think it's stupid that people think Nintendo has any obligation of making a powerful console. If you don't like modest hardware, don't buy Nintendo. If this hurts Nintendo, then it was their fault. But acting as if capable hardware sells systems or makes them successful is ridiculous. PS3 is Sony's biggest disaster in ages despite selling great, no one ever should aim to repeat a PS3-like system and proof of that is that Sony didn't.

Wii and Wii U don't have to be as small as they are.

Make the console bigger and you can fit more powerful components at NO extra cost.

For the same price, would you rather have a weaker Wii that is small, or a more powerful Wii that is somewhat bigger?

 

[ShinMaruku]

Market cap isn't really the best way of determining the 'size' of a company

Market cap is just what the market thinks it is. It's the confidence in them not really their 'size'. And since it's market it will fluctuate.

 

[kinggroin]

Guys, the difference between the Vita and Wii U is that Sony doesn't have the Vita hanging around its neck. The company can pretend it doesn't exist.

Nintendo has to pretend they support the Wii U until its "generation" ends, and even then, there's little to suggest that they'll he more successful.

Sony actually went from last place to first. Nintendo went from first place to not just last, but dead.

As long as the PS4 keeps leading the market, Sony will keep successfully convincing its stakeholders that the platform is worthwhile.

Meanwhile the entire Wii brand is dead.. There's nothing left of it. The largest and most lucrative sector of the gaming market left Nintendo behind.

And as for the 3DS, every subsequent handheld Nintendo releases will sell less than the DS did. Sony will discontinue the handheld Playstation eventually in favor of mobile devices that carry the software.

Vita sales are pathetic, but they don't make Sony look pathetic by association. The Wii U has turned Nintendo into a laughing stock.

And I remember when folks back in the day called you a Nintendo fanboy.

Good points

 

[RM8]

For the same price, would you rather have a weaker Wii that is small, or a more powerful Wii that is somewhat bigger?

I'm not the best person to answer this, lol, I'm always biased towards smaller devices. I understand I'm a minority, now even phones seem to get bigger and bigger.

 

[InsaneZero]

So what you're saying is.. If Sony buys Nintendo, they'll no longer be in debt!

Gaming industry nirvana is only one loan away!

 

[Riki]

How great Nintendo has been doing?

Compared to Sony, I believe.

 

[Tripon]

Compared to Sony, I believe.

Both corporations are coming off low points.

 

[zeldablue]

What goes down must go up!

Probably...

 

[Oriel]

Compared to Sony, I believe.

Oddly enough Sony's decade long decline has been pretty much mirrored with other Japanese gaming companies. Hell the same could be said of the entire Japanese economy, which hasn't really ever recovered from the early 90's market crash. Their 'lost decade' ended up becoming 20 years of deflationary stagnation. A malaise compounded by a rapidly aging population and miniscule birthrate. Throw in a hyper competitive South Korean tech industry and cheap Chinese workforce and it's not hard to see why Japanese companies are bouncing along the bottom. Time will tell if Abenomics by the new Japanese government will assist the country's beleaguered export industry.

As for Nintendo the Wii was nothing more than a blip that ultimately failed to see it stave off the inevitable decline most of its peers had already faced.

 

[Riki]

Oddly enough Sony's decade long decline has been pretty much mirrored with other Japanese gaming companies. Hell the same could be said of the entire Japanese economy, which hasn't really ever recovered from the early 90's market crash. Their 'lost decade' ended up becoming 20 years of deflationary stagnation. A malaise compounded by a rapidly aging population and miniscule birthrate. Throw in a hyper competitive South Korean tech industry and cheap Chinese workforce and it's not hard to see why Japanese companies are bouncing along the bottom. Time will tell if Abenomics by the new Japanese government will assist the country's beleaguered export industry.

As for Nintendo the Wii was nothing more than a blip that ultimately failed to see it stave off the inevitable decline most of its peers had already faced.

Is it weird that I learned most of this in animes?

 

[Taurus]

I wish Sony didn't make those mistakes back then, but oh well. They'll be okay.

http://gaminrealm.com/2013/12/30/sony-79-chance-bankrupt-2-years/

 

[Oriel]

Is it weird that I learned most of this in animes?

Not at all. I learnt alot about Japanese geopolitical and demographic issues simply from watching Ghost in the Shell. Lol.

 

[Yamauchi]

Nintendo has a lot cash, they'll probably post a small operating profit or will break even for the year, and their stock price is stable when factoring out the Wii bubble (Nintendo at one point was the most highly valued company in Japan). Even Pachter has noted that Nintendo could go for a decade without having to make a single change to their market strategy. So no, I highly doubt they'll dump the Wii U.

 

[Riki]

Nintendo has a lot cash, they'll probably post a small operating profit or will break even for the year, and their stock price is stable when factoring out the Wii bubble (Nintendo at one point was the most highly valued company in Japan). Even Pachter has noted that Nintendo could go for a decade without having to make a single change to their market strategy. So no, I highly doubt they'll dump the Wii U.

The deity has spoken.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Also, market cap is the value of issued Stock. It doesn't include the value of assets or cash on hand. It's not a complete picture of what a company is worth.

Thank you. Someone who actually understands what a market cap means =). For example Google's market cap is higher than Microsoft's, but Microsoft definitely has a significantly higher annual revenue.

 

[RM8]

Nintendo has a lot cash, they'll probably post a small operating profit or will break even for the year, and their stock price is stable when factoring out the Wii bubble (Nintendo at one point was the most highly valued company in Japan). Even Pachter has noted that Nintendo could go for a decade without having to make a single change to their market strategy. So no, I highly doubt they'll dump the Wii U.

Nintendo has enough cash and is a hilariously stubborn company. I don't even own a WiiU and I'm rather pessimistic about it, but I don't see it disappearing early or even mid-gen for Nintendo to release an expensive (R&D and production-wise) "truly next-gen" system that might fail even harder, hurting Nintendo's value even more.

 

[trixx]

How Sony went from giant in Electronic sector to somewhat irrelevant in many industries i will never understand. I guess it's sort of like Nintendo's domination in beginning to less so.

Playstation division still rocking though

 

[Chindogg]

Let's can the Console Warz for a minute and just think of these two companies as businesses.

Is Nintendo overall doing that well, or is Sony overall doing that poorly?

 

[Aces&Eights]

I think they stretching themselves thin. The PC and consumer camera market are dying. That's the only things i they can cut at this point. IBM got rid of their consumer PC arm, investor keep asking HP to do the same and concentrate on services. People are just no buying consumer PC as mobile phones have replace most of the uses.

First sane thing I have read in this thread. Consumer standalone cameras are going to keep declining. With great tech coming in phones, only serious enthusiasts will drop 500 or a grand on a camera. The 4k for 2k camera is not going to do well on the average Joe level. If anything, I feel Sony should focus on commercial 4k cameras and it will in addition boost movie sales. Once consumers really see 4k potential the TV sales will follow.

Also, I think they really need to start pushing bundles. Buy a Bravia get exclusive ps4 content or discounts on Sony films. Buy a Sony camera then make exclusive editing features on Sony laptops.

We are all becoming one with our tech. People want smooth data transitions from one piece of hardware to another. Sony could really streamline their ecosystem if they start cross selling and offering good incentives for consumers to be brand loyal rather than jury rigging a hodgepodge of hardware. I for one am sick of buying a Sony this and a Samsung that then purchasing music from amazon only to put it on a jump drive by some Chinese corporation. Give me a tv, phone, music source, gaming system and peripherals that are not just alike in name only but offer serious streamlining of personal data and exclusive content.

 

[Riki]

Let's can the Console Warz for a minute and just think of these two companies as businesses.

Is Nintendo overall doing that well, or is Sony overall doing that poorly?

Sony has quite a bit of outstanding debt while Nintendo has quite a bit of on hand cash and easy to liquidate equity.
The WiiU is doing poorly, no doubt, but Nintendo as a company is doing well.

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

How Sony went from giant in Electronic sector to somewhat irrelevant in many industries i will never understand. I guess it's sort of like Nintendo's domination in beginning to less so.

They were not quick enough to catch onto new trends and they allowed other companies to beat them in promoting new technologies (Apple with the iPod for example).

 

[Sandfox]

How Sony went from giant in Electronic sector to somewhat irrelevant in many industries i will never understand.

Apple and Samsung started to make the moves Sony should have given their position in the 90s.

 

[NewGame]

Just as I always said: Sony should go third party, fire Hirai, etc etc

 

[Principate]

Apple and Samsung started to make the moves Sony should have given their position in the 90s.

Sony's love of proprietary continues to bite them in the figurative butt.

 

[Coolwhip]

..

/bow
/kneel

 

[Riki]

Sony's love of proprietary continues to bite them in the figurative butt.

The Pro Duo was at least a little understandable. It came out during a time when there was a lot of competition to the SD card.
The Vita card, though. Man....

 

[Derpcrawler]

It's more like "Nintendo can't afford to lose $200+ per console sale like Sony and MS who offset those costs in other areas." and "Nintendo can't afford to pay $100,000 million to money hat timed exclusives for games like MS can."

Nintendo competes with different kinds of technology and spends its third party money on localizing games and picking up stuff like Bayonetta 2.

Since when does timed exclusives cost hundreds of billions?

 

[Tripon]

Sony's love of proprietary continues to bite them in the figurative butt.

But apple and Samsung proprietary products worked out. Sony's problem is that they weren't able to design products as good as Apple, but Samsung just over powered Sony in manufacturing and marketing.