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Nintendo Switch - One hybrid console will mean more games - what happened to that claim?
- Thread starter Hitchyhero
- Start date
VGEsoterica
Member
it was a bit of a slow christmas for Nintendo. Fingers crossed we get BotW 2 for next xmas
KingT731
Member
They're not talking about "potential sales." Many people are asking for new games. Those ports aren't time consuming at all so people have begun to ask where are all the new games.
MagnesG
Banned
There are already multiple people answering that question including me.
Don't forget that those "people" didn't played those games yet so technically for most it is new. Like who the hell had actually experience all those games on WiiU except for a tiny tiny amount of hardcore Nintendo fanbase.
LordOfChaos
Member
"X will mean no more game droughts" is perpetually the Nintendo song.
NeilH1982
Banned
Yeah bro, Mario kart 8 and smash bros 4 are totally different games than Mario kart 8 deluxe and smash bros ultimate. It's ok to admit that there are a lot of ports that are just slightly improved.
The Switch has a great library, i have no problem admitting that, i also have no problem admitting that I played a lot of its library last generation
Woopah
Member
Sure, but when the question is about Nintendo themselves focussing on one system then it's first party titles that matter.
kunonabi
Member
The real reason is because the Switch is a massive success and Nintendo tends to get super lazy when that happens. Add in the dev costs and the fact that so many cheap ports did extremely well and you get a situation where less stuff gets made. Nintendo is just maximizing profits as should be expected. It sucks but it is what is.
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Fbh
Member
IMO it's a mix of HD development taking longer and costing more, but it's mostly about Nintendo having Zero incentive to push out new games right now because their consoles and their 2+ years old $60 games are still selling like crazy. Why would you release a new Mario Kart when your 6 years old $60 game is still making the top 10 sales charts almost every single month?. Why make a big investment to push out a bunch of new games at a steady rate when your console is selling like crazy with what is available right now?. It makes more sense to slow things down, work on some key titles and hold those back until they see a downward trend or there's some new hardware iteration they want to push.
Astral Dog
Member
You need to understand games can't come as quickly as the 3DS/Wii era, HD games take much more time and resources to make.
IS alone is a good example.
3DS: FE Awakening, Paper Mario SS, new IP, FE FATES(basically 2 games), FE Echoes, etc.
Switch
aper Mario, FE 3Houses,FEWarriors(last two weren't even made by them but mostly with help of Tecmo)
Switch development requires much more time and resources than 3DS for a single game, its a gigantic leap, better compare the release schedule to Wii U and its much better. (if we don't count 2020)
IS alone is a good example.
3DS: FE Awakening, Paper Mario SS, new IP, FE FATES(basically 2 games), FE Echoes, etc.
Switch
aper Mario, FE 3Houses,FEWarriors(last two weren't even made by them but mostly with help of Tecmo) Switch development requires much more time and resources than 3DS for a single game, its a gigantic leap, better compare the release schedule to Wii U and its much better. (if we don't count 2020)
Woopah
Member
But that only works if you look at 2020 in isolation. In 2019 they were very successful and published lots of games, same as in 2017. They don't stop and start working on games depending on how successful they are in that particular year.
Edit: what does change with panic Nintendo is marketing. With the Wii U they announced games way in advance. With Switch, apart from a few games in 2017,they have generally announced games a year or less before the planned release date. Not every game fits this but the vast majority do.
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Astral Dog
Member
Im sure Nintendo is always working on something new/new games, its not because they are lazy
However they might have trouble with their schedule, be it covid and something else (hd) Bayonetta3, Metroid5, Prime 4,BotW2 surely have been affected.
And we can only expect a single company to carry a game console so far, thats why third party support is so essential, Nintendo basically throwed everything they had in 2017 and 2019, 2020 they entered in some kind of hibernating mode. (wich i bet will continue until covid dissapears)we can argue there are ways Nintendo could do better to increase support
Sony couldn't carry PlayStation on their shoulders either.
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Kataploom
Gold Member
Nintendo Switch has amazing 3rd party support what you're talking about? Their handhelds were always strong on third parties, it's only their home consoles that did not meet 3rd party publishers requirements mostly due to the games they put their resources on vs the audience Nintendo attends, popularity is only one of many factors and power is literally a non-factor if money (audience + install base) was there.
Right now Switch receives so many indies, AA and old ports that it's far from being "pushed by first parties alone" as you and some others imply, and there's a lot of market for that type of games.
Moogle11
Banned
The 3DS focused development teams were small and geared up for making games for a handheld with a 240p screen. Add that on to Nintendo admitting that the Wii U had droughts as even their console teams struggled with the move to HD game development and they just didn't have the manpower or HD game expertise needed to keep churning out games at they rate they were in the past.
Plus the Switch has kept selling lot hot cakes with first party games selling at crazy high attach rates, so they don't really have any pressure to speed up releases. They're all about profit margins, not pumping out enough games to keep hardcore gamers who blow through games satiated. I've long accepted that Nintendo is just a complementary platform that I'll play a handful of games (at most) a year on, both do to the pace of major releases and my not liking all their franchises or all that many of the Japanese games they get from other publishers, and I'm good with that.
Plus the Switch has kept selling lot hot cakes with first party games selling at crazy high attach rates, so they don't really have any pressure to speed up releases. They're all about profit margins, not pumping out enough games to keep hardcore gamers who blow through games satiated. I've long accepted that Nintendo is just a complementary platform that I'll play a handful of games (at most) a year on, both do to the pace of major releases and my not liking all their franchises or all that many of the Japanese games they get from other publishers, and I'm good with that.
Umbasaborne
Banned
So, you have devs who became acustom
To making ultra low resolution 3ds games now having to make games in hd. Looking back at the japanese games industry circa 2005-2011, we know that took most japanese publishers and developers a long time to get right (see ffxIII’s “towns are too hard to make” comment for refference”)
for many of these previously ds exclusive developers the switch is a massive leap for them in terms of tech. Many of the visual shortcuts they were able to make on the 3ds would be much more obvious for a game running at 720p or 1080p. There is a reason pokemon sword looks like an hd 3ds game. Same with fire emblem. They will get there...eventually, but it might be another 2 or 3 years before nintendo can match the output it had across the wii u and 3ds
To making ultra low resolution 3ds games now having to make games in hd. Looking back at the japanese games industry circa 2005-2011, we know that took most japanese publishers and developers a long time to get right (see ffxIII’s “towns are too hard to make” comment for refference”)
for many of these previously ds exclusive developers the switch is a massive leap for them in terms of tech. Many of the visual shortcuts they were able to make on the 3ds would be much more obvious for a game running at 720p or 1080p. There is a reason pokemon sword looks like an hd 3ds game. Same with fire emblem. They will get there...eventually, but it might be another 2 or 3 years before nintendo can match the output it had across the wii u and 3ds
onnextflix5
Member
Switch is selling like hot cakes, they could invest more, but would be the point, they dont need to, Really hope switch 2 fails, so nintendo, starts innovating again, fed up with the zelda, mario combo,
KingT731
Member
The "HD games take longer" thing shouldn't be an excuse when they had teams working on HD games for almost a decade now. Also it isn't like the games they've been releasing are super graphically intense...if they had fallen into the "super realistic" hole then maybe but clearly they didn't.You need to understand games can't come as quickly as the 3DS/Wii era, HD games take much more time and resources to make.
IS alone is a good example.
3DS: FE Awakening, Paper Mario SS, new IP, FE FATES(basically 2 games), FE Echoes, etc.
Switch
Switch development requires much more time and resources than 3DS for a single game, its a gigantic leap, better compare the release schedule to Wii U and its much better. (if we don't count 2020)
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ExpandKong
Banned
Didn't we get animal crossing and paper Mario and Xenoblade DE and Pikmin 3 and Tokyo Mirage Sessions and 3D All-Stars this year? I mean Pikmin 3 and TMS were re-releases with some new additions but they were re-releases of Wii U games that nobody played. Shit I HAD a Wii U and I didn’t play them.
MagnesG
Banned
What about devs releasing on the 3DS?
Astral Dog
Member
Just because games don't look realistic doesn't mean they are easy to make!
anyways, no matter how many years of experience they would still take considerably longer than a 3Ds/Wii/GC game, but i will give you FE Three Houses and Pokemon , they look terrible even by Switch standards
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KingT731
Member
The "they" is Nintendo specifically. I'd have to look at the last few Nintendo developed (keyword developed) 3DS games.
Nintendo didn't develop the last few Fire Emblem games...Koei did and GameFreak is just lazy as fuck.Just because games don't look realistic doesn't mean they are easy to make!
anyways, no matter how many years of experience they would still take considerably longer than a 3Ds/Wii/GC game, but i will give you FE Three Houses and Pokemon , they look terrible even by Switch standards
MiguelItUp
Member
I can't help but feel like this has been Nintendo for a while now. The routine really hasn't changed because it's still very successful for them. Their brand still sells, and it shows.
It feels like they go pretty hard in various quarters, and then slowly let off the accelerator and coast. I really wish we'd see more heavy hitters from Nintendo over a longer period of time.
It feels like they go pretty hard in various quarters, and then slowly let off the accelerator and coast. I really wish we'd see more heavy hitters from Nintendo over a longer period of time.
Hitchyhero
Banned
I think my qualms were echoes with what someone else on this thread. When Nintendo and others were saying they were able to make more games (and by more games I mean more games on one console by not having to 'split' which devs are working on which console) I expected some AAA console type games and others more quick jump in handheld. So far we've had console type games and many of them have been ports.... So I feel we havnt got many of either.
Fbh
Member
Experience working on HD games makes things faster but don't magically erase the inherent extra work from going from Ps2 tier games on 3DS to something in between Ps3/4. It's not only a Nintendo thing, with every new gen dev times are getting longer and longer.
But as I said, I don't think it's the main reason. They could release more games if they wanted to, but their console and software is selling so well that they don't need to. I think it also helps that they don't have any direct competition in the handheld market or in the type of games that they make.
Trilobit
Member
I'd be totally fine with a new Zelda in this isometric and graphical style(in HD of course). I want more of these kinds of games since they suit my portable gaming. This obsession that they need to feel like home console games is not what I expected and kind of why I agree with OP.
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Woopah
Member
Nintendo has never developed any Fire Emblem games. Or Pokémon or Kirby or Paper Mario or Smash Bro for that matter.
A very large proportion of the games Nintendo publishes are created by outside teams, so if we're talking about what's happening with Nintendo's combined output, that would include studios like Intelligent Systems, Syn Sofia, Grezzo and Game Freak which entered the Switch era with little to no HD development experience. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that those studios could struggle with the jump from 3DS to Switch.
KingT731
Member
Which would be my point. Nintendo as well as their 2nd party partners just don't seem to be putting much out at all.
Which is why I said it shouldn't be used as an excuse...they could but they don't.
Neff
Member
This. HD games are much more expensive and time-consuming to make than your average 3DS title.
Also, 2020 was a shite year for Switch, the absence of news, let alone major releases was particularly noticeable.
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
The claim was right. I got like 50+ switch games and the console isn't even close to being at its end, by the time it is I'll have more games for it than any other Nintendo console.
Woopah
Member
I that's mostly been a 2020 problem. They're still one of the most prolific publishers in the industry and in 2019 they published 12 Switch games at retail (not including Wii U ports or eShop titles). In today's industry publishing that many retail games in one year is a lot.
BreathOfTheWife
Member
Rean no Kiseki
Banned
Poor mangment? Wanting to get a piece of the mobile action? Incompetence? All of the above?
Ever since Iwata passed away they don't seem to have a clear vision or a plan going forward, even the Switch was done under Iwata's leadership, people say successful Nintendo is lazy, but that's far from the truth for my money 2005-2016 were equal in output and creativity to the height of SNES days.
2 Mario Galaxy games.
Metroid Prime 3.
Metroid Samus Returns.
Luigi's Mansion 2.
3 The Legend of Zelda games, a Link Between Worlds, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, also Hyrule Warriors.
4 Mario & Luigi RPGs.
7 Fire Emblems.
2 Donkey Kong platformers.
2 Xenoblade games.
And the list goes on, you can't tell me Nintendo and their partners can't develops HD assets by 2020, Fire Emblem 3 Houses (one of Nintendo's biggest franchises) looks and runs worse than anything Falcom put out since 2013! And Falcom don't posses fuck you money like Nintendo! Zelda BOTW 2 looks like it's going to be another BOTW/Twilight Princess AKA a cross gen title to sell the new hardware they're 100% going to release by 2021-2022.
I had hoped if they're going to embrace different philosophy with the Switch they'd change some of their more draconian practices like no meaningfull discounts on their 1st party software, better online (since we're paying for it now) and a shared account that doesn't make me buy the same game twice because reasons!
Ever since Iwata passed away they don't seem to have a clear vision or a plan going forward, even the Switch was done under Iwata's leadership, people say successful Nintendo is lazy, but that's far from the truth for my money 2005-2016 were equal in output and creativity to the height of SNES days.
2 Mario Galaxy games.
Metroid Prime 3.
Metroid Samus Returns.
Luigi's Mansion 2.
3 The Legend of Zelda games, a Link Between Worlds, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, also Hyrule Warriors.
4 Mario & Luigi RPGs.
7 Fire Emblems.
2 Donkey Kong platformers.
2 Xenoblade games.
And the list goes on, you can't tell me Nintendo and their partners can't develops HD assets by 2020, Fire Emblem 3 Houses (one of Nintendo's biggest franchises) looks and runs worse than anything Falcom put out since 2013! And Falcom don't posses fuck you money like Nintendo! Zelda BOTW 2 looks like it's going to be another BOTW/Twilight Princess AKA a cross gen title to sell the new hardware they're 100% going to release by 2021-2022.
I had hoped if they're going to embrace different philosophy with the Switch they'd change some of their more draconian practices like no meaningfull discounts on their 1st party software, better online (since we're paying for it now) and a shared account that doesn't make me buy the same game twice because reasons!
NeilH1982
Banned
Not the same game, not the same content, right?Animal Crossing New Leaf vs New Horizons
Smash 4 vs Ultimate
Port slightly improved
InDaGulag
Member
Turns out HD development takes more time, money, and manpower than your average 3DS game. I mean look at how much Gamefreak has struggled with the transition. And they're co-owners of the largest media brand. If they got caught with their pants down over this, imagine how the transition has been for smaller dev teams and IPs?
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KingT731
Member
Imagine ignoring the struggles of the industry for 15 years....
OuterLimits
Member
Just because games don't look realistic doesn't mean they are easy to make!
anyways, no matter how many years of experience they would still take considerably longer than a 3Ds/Wii/GC game, but i will give you FE Three Houses and Pokemon , they look terrible even by Switch standards
I think Tecmo Koei largely did Fire Emblem, specifically the team that does the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms/Nobunaga's Ambition series. Those games have always had pretty bad graphics but are still pretty good strategy games.