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[Instro]

Yeah. I'm not trying to be an apologist when I say there has to be some good reason why they went this route. I mean, it may not be a good reason to consumers, but there had to be some legitimate software/hardware engineering concerns that led them to look at multiple implementations and decide that the smartphone app was the way to go. I don't work in gaming or hardware design, but I work in development. I understand that sometimes it just happens that the client wants something and all we can offer in response is "we'd love to do it, but the solution isn't workable because of (insert reasons here)" or "we thought about that and could have done it, but unfortunately because (insert other reasons here) it was just more pragmatic to go this route."

I don't think the people working at Nintendo are big dumb dumb idiots that must be new to hardware and software engineering. But there's just no way that the teams were sitting around working on the basic, OS-level community functionality on the Switch itself, and it was working just fine, and then someone else came along and said "what about a smartphone app" and everyone agreed that this was definitely the more elegant approach and worth completely abandoning the console implementation for. What made putting these features on the console unworkable or a secondary priority? What challenges are they trying to overcome only offering a smartphone app?

Well this quote is only a few years old:

This was surprising to hear, as we would have thought that they had plenty of time to work on these features as it had been announced months before, so we probed a little deeper and asked how certain scenarios might work with the Mii friends and networking, all the time referencing how Xbox Live and PSN achieve the same thing. At some point in this conversation we were informed that it was no good referencing Live and PSN as nobody in their development teams used those systems (!) so could we provide more detailed explanations for them? My only thought after this call was that they were struggling - badly - with the networking side as it was far more complicated than they anticipated. They were trying to play catch-up with the rival systems, but without the years of experience to back it up.

It wouldn't exactly be shocking that they still have poor insight into how collective online services, and related functionality, should work and handed it off to DeNA in some fashion.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Is there any legitimate theory on why this happened? Sometime ago I proposed that maybe it was to free up resources and have the least possible memory dedicated to the OS, but that got played down here.

Having the app as a supplementary service could be a great idea. But a forced one doesn't make sense.

Some people theorize that the DeNA partnership had a deal where DeNA wanted to take care of the online/voice chat service for the Switch and this is their solution since they only deal with mobile apps. Others think that the Switch was clearly rushed to market and the OS had very little time for these features to be built. I really have no idea what it is at this point, I just know it's not whatever BS Reggie is feeding us about "bulky headsets".

Mh, yeah. I think you're right.

I mean, all they have to do here is to either allow messaging apps on Switch or implement a messaging system themselves. You get a pop-up that a friend has opened a lobby, click on that, game launches, you're in the lobby. Done.

That's a really obvious flaw right here.

One of many, yeah.

Well this quote is only a few years old:


It wouldn't exactly be shocking that they still have poor insight into how collective online services, and related functionality, should work and handed it off to DeNA in some fashion.

But that doesn't explain the fact that this is a large step back from even the Wii U's functionality in which you could do voice chat through the console and message friends.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

I made an invite via twitter.. Looks like this.

https://twitter.com/hanmik01/status/887623663889129473

Okay, that is cool.

---

Shame the app is so bare-bones though - the Eurogamer article isn't very flattering at all. I'll probably only be using it to set up rooms to share on social media/messaging services. That's really handy to me.

(you should be able to schedule rooms opening and posting room links to social media, it'd be great if you wanted to open a room at 9pm for 4 friends, and you could post to a friend or your timeline/feed 15 minutes beforehand).

 

[RoboGeorgeForeman]

Left a bad review as I still find the idea that I need to be tethered to my phone at all times just to play online/chat with friends absolutely ridiculous.

I made an invite via twitter.. Looks like this.

https://twitter.com/hanmik01/status/887623663889129473

Seems like it could get annoying fast. Don't want a notification everytime one of my friends (most of which are off for the summer) are trying to start a room.

 

[Dierce]

I think it's simply a matter of Nintendo taking the Apple approach. Don't implement an easy to create yet useful feature now because it will be part of the next iteration. I expect the Switch 2 to have native voice chat and them making some excuse as to why the original Switch doesn't support it.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Left a bad review as I still find the idea that I need to be tethered to my phone at all times just to play online/chat with friends absolutely ridiculous.

I don't know if this is an actual misconception or not but you absolutely do not need the app to play online, even to play with friends.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Oh man, so Nintendo was 10 years behind in online infrastructure. Now it's also 10 years behind mobile app infrastructure.

I hope this thoroughly buries the defense force?

Cmon guys.

This should be universally rejected and shot down by the entire consumer base

absolutely unacceptable

 

[Griss]

Yeah. I'm not trying to be an apologist when I say there has to be some good reason why they went this route. I mean, it may not be a good reason to consumers, but there had to be some legitimate software/hardware engineering concerns that led them to look at multiple implementations and decide that the smartphone app was the way to go. I don't work in gaming or hardware design, but I work in development. I understand that sometimes it just happens that the client wants something and all we can offer in response is "we'd love to do it, but the solution isn't workable because of (insert reasons here)" or "we thought about that and could have done it, but unfortunately because (insert other reasons here) it was just more pragmatic to go this route."

I don't think the people working at Nintendo are big dumb dumb idiots that must be new to hardware and software engineering. But there's just no way that the teams were sitting around working on the basic, OS-level community functionality on the Switch itself, and it was working just fine, and then someone else came along and said "what about a smartphone app" and everyone agreed that this was definitely the more elegant approach and worth completely abandoning the console implementation for. What made putting these features on the console unworkable or a secondary priority? What challenges are they trying to overcome only offering a smartphone app?

It has to be the differing controller situations plus not wanting to force people to buy a Bluetooth headset.

Basically every implementation they could have done has issues. Mic jack on the switch itself is not available while docked. Jack on the joycons is wasteful and there was potentially no internal room. Jack on the pro controller requires an extra purchase. There's no blatantly obvious choice there.

So while I think what they came up with is terrible, I can see why they might have seen this as something that covers every group of users in every situation.

They should have gone with a cheap bluetooth accessory imo, but even then maybe they were having problems with potentially 2+ joycons, wifi connection and thus interference with the blutooth signal.

Just a shit situation.

 

[RoboGeorgeForeman]

I don't know if this is an actual misconception or not but you absolutely do not need the app to play online, even to play with friends.

Maybe I worded that poorly, but I did believe the latter not the former. Still don't like the idea of using the app, but that's a bit better.

 

[BGBW]

Watched GameXplain's video for it, and it looks like it could be a nice supplement app for extra deets and stats on your games. And that's really all it should be.

But friend inviting seems overly complex. You have to set it up in-game and then continue in the app? Shouldn't it either be one or the other?

The voicechat business I don't really need to get into. Many have pointed out the difficulties. Luckily it's not a feature I really need.

(you should be able to schedule rooms opening and posting room links to social media, it'd be great if you wanted to open a room at 9pm for 4 friends, and you could post to a friend or your timeline/feed 15 minutes beforehand).

I honestly thought that was the whole idea behind it. You could be away from your system (say at work) but still schedule things for later in the day since you're always going to have your phone.

 

[Kodaman]

What are you doing Nintendo.. jesus

 

[DrROBschiz]

It has to be the differing controller situations plus not wanting to force people to buy a Bluetooth headset.

Basically every implementation they could have done has issues. Mic jack on the switch itself is not available while docked. Jack on the joycons is wasteful and there was potentially no internal room. Jack on the pro controller requires an extra purchase. There's no blatantly obvious choice there.

So while I think what they came up with is terrible, I can see why they might have seen this as something that covers every group of users in every situation.

They should have gone with a cheap bluetooth accessory imo, but even then maybe they were having problems with potentially 2+ joycons, wifi connection and thus interference with the blutooth signal.

Just a shit situation.

Ps4 and Xbox third party headsets use this thing called a USB dongle

boom now you have simplified portable and docked solutions

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

Some people theorize that the DeNA partnership had a deal where DeNA wanted to take care of the online/voice chat service for the Switch and this is their solution since they only deal with mobile apps. Others think that the Switch was clearly rushed to market and the OS had very little time for these features to be built. I really have no idea what it is at this point, I just know it's not whatever BS Reggie is feeding us about "bulky headsets".



One of many, yeah.



But that doesn't explain the fact that this is a large step back from even the Wii U's functionality in which you could do voice chat through the console and message friends.

It can't be that DeNa just said "hey, we will take care of online chat/messaging, but erh, it will only be mobile". It's silly.

Wasn't Koizumi the general producer of the hardware? He's been praised up to heavens by people here (and I consider him to be a genius creator), so what happened here?

 

[arimanius]

I don't own iOS or Android.... so what now, Nintendo?

Time to get a second job.

Be thankfull you have a roof over your head ?

Rethink the life choices that led to you having a Windows Phone.

rofl brutal.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Maybe I worded that poorly, but I did believe the latter not the former. Still don't like the idea of using the app, but that's a bit better.

Yeah, the only functions the app performs that the actual system cannot do are voice chat and inviting friends to lobbies. You can still join friends in games on the system, just not invite them.

Still quite a dumb limitation (and "solution") of course.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Thankfully I don't do voice chat unless its an MMO. Sucks for the rest of you guys though.

 

[ookami]

So... If not playing with random players but with friends there is no reason for me to use this app instead of Discord on my phone.

 

[ktroopa]

ok so Nintendo launches an app and this thread has soared to 24 pages in a short space of time. my guess is its online service is not good news...

sigh

 

[MisterR]

But that doesn't explain the fact that this is a large step back from even the Wii U's functionality in which you could do voice chat through the console and message friends.

I think it more just reflects their overall denseness in understanding online altogether.

 

[DrROBschiz]

It can't be that DeNa just said "hey, we will take care of online chat/messaging, but erh, it will only be mobile". It's silly.

Wasn't Koizumi the general producer of the hardware? He's been praised up to heavens by people here (and I consider him to be a genius creator), so what happened here?

Dude i wish i fucking knew what drove this bonehead decision

I want to know and i dont think we ever will know

 

[Okami Haundo]

Yup I agree 100% with this. It's silly to pretend this is their decision "Because Nintendo" or because Nintendo "doesn't understand online anything", because there is most certainly a real, legitimate reason why they had to resort to using this app at this time. Whether it was the time/budget relegated to the Switch's OS or firmware, or the fact that there was no room left in the Switch or joycons to put an integrated mic, or some deal with DeNA, or any number of technical software reasons that I'm not aware of, there had to have been some real reason which made them seek out this app solution. The only thing we can do at this point is hope that A) they greatly improve the functionality of the app or even better, B) add some of this functionality to the Switch OS over time.

This x1000! The best we can do at this point is give Nintendo honest feedback. If they don't incorporate said feedback, there are other options for voice chat.

Dude i wish i fucking knew what drove this bonehead decision

I want to know and i dont think we ever will know

I mean, we might know someday! It'll just be long after the Switch is dead and gone.

 

[Vic]

Left a bad review as I still find the idea that I need to be tethered to my phone at all times just to play online/chat with friends absolutely ridiculous.




Seems like it could get annoying fast. Don't want a notification everytime one of my friends (most of which are off for the summer) are trying to start a room.

Gonna make it easier to setup games with online forums like GAF.

 

[jroc74]

Okay, this is broken.

More at: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ke-it-could-be-every-bit-as-bad-as-you-feared

But but but its to save battery for the Switch. Damn the phones battery tho....

There will hopefully be an update. Multi tasking one pronto. No way should the screen need to be on and the app active in the foreground for it to work.

But one thing I have seen this gen is all 3 console makers taking 1 step forwards, 2 steps back:

XBO - longer install times than 360
PS4 - cant use Bluetooth headsets, media features were absent at launch
Switch - voice chat setup.

Seems I was wrong about Bluetooth headset for PS4. You have to use an official one.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

If nintendo continue to be their closed minded self over this its bye bye switch for me after xenoblade.
Ill wait for a new switch and see if they fix their mess and a dozen other things along with it

 

[JJH]

Can't wait to give Nintendo money for this service next year.

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

If nintendo continue to be their closed minded self over this its bye bye switch for me after xenoblade.
Ill wait for a new switch and see if they fix their mess and a dozen other things along with it

What do you expect to change after Xenoblade? Because online will surely not. What do you expect to happen?

 

[PowerThroughLov]

I'm wondering if it's the following:
1. Nintendo could not build a full network solution into the switch os in the timeframe required for games that required it.
2. Examining this, Nintendo realized they could have a third party hosted solution (aws/gcp) with existing integration APIs in the needed time frame.
3. They decided to have each game directly code to this external hosting solution instead of relying on a system level API.

I pulled that out of nowhere, but seems plausible.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

What do you expect to change after Xenoblade? Because online will surely not. What do you expect to happen?

I just hope they realize this system is crap and decide to do 'something' about. I already have a switch so i might as well play mario and xenoblade, not much im hyped for after it.

 

[oti]

What do you expect to change after Xenoblade? Because online will surely not. What do you expect to happen?

Pretty sure he just really wants to play Xenoblade, dude.

 

[Vinsanity.]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...e-it-could-be-every-bit-as-bad-as-you-feared..

Holy. Shit.

This is completely horrrendous. This isn't just a poor design decision, this is a failure in implementation. If that article is correct, this is a disaster.

All they had to do (or hopefully do in the future) is allow Bluetooth headset connectivity through the console , and I think most people would be pretty OK with it...

 

[commish]

Yup I agree 100% with this. It's silly to pretend this is their decision "Because Nintendo" or because Nintendo "doesn't understand online anything", because there is most certainly a real, legitimate reason why they had to resort to using this app at this time. Whether it was the time/budget relegated to the Switch's OS or firmware, or the fact that there was no room left in the Switch or joycons to put an integrated mic, or some deal with DeNA, or any number of technical software reasons that I'm not aware of, there had to have been some real reason which made them seek out this app solution. The only thing we can do at this point is hope that A) they greatly improve the functionality of the app or even better, B) add some of this functionality to the Switch OS over time.

Because companies don't make dumb decisions, right? And it's not like Nintendo has continually made decisions that make it seem like they are out of touch with both the industry and their consumers.

You're right - what's done is done, we can only hope that it improves. Personally, I will probably skip any MP-focused Switch game because it's not worth it when it's so poorly implemented.

 

[Blam]

Holy. Shit.

This is completely horrrendous. This isn't just a poor design decision, this is a failure in implementation. If that article is correct, this is a disaster.

This is going to completely kill online for the Switch. Nobody is going to do this.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Huh, I haven't dabbled in Bluetooth headsets in probably a decade. Can anyone recommend something inexpensive?

Quoting myself because this seems to have gotten lost in the sea of gamer rage.

 

[RoboGeorgeForeman]

Gonna make it easier to setup games with online forums like GAF.

I could definitely see the appeal for larger accounts like that.

 

[Doc_Drop]

Hilarious that people who don't care about online play/functionality are trying to present this as not a big deal to people who clearly care and understand the issues and situations where Nintendo's approach will be problematic

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Because companies don't make dumb decisions, right? And it's not like Nintendo has continually made decisions that make it seem like they are out of touch with both the industry and their consumers.

You're right - what's done is done, we can only hope that it improves. Personally, I will probably skip any MP-focused Switch game because it's not worth it when it's so poorly implemented.

Just to be clear, I absolutely think companies are capable of making dumb decisions. I think where Nintendo landed here is ultimately a dumb decision. Where I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt though is that I think often times there are sane, logical decisions that are made along the way before ultimately reaching a faulty conclusion.

I am absolutely not letting Nintendo off the hook here. I've mocked this implementation and will continue to do so. However, I also am just very interested in trying to understand the real, underlying reason that led them to launching this (not even very good) smartphone app as their primary social communication vehicle.

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

This is going to completely kill online for the Switch. Nobody is going to do this.

See, this is the hyperbole I was talking about. Switch has Mario Kart and Splatoon two of the most popular Nintendo multiplayer games of all time, do you think people will stop playing because they need to use an app to do voice chat?

Come on guys, get a hold of yourselves.

 

[Ninja Dom]

Because companies don't make dumb decisions, right? And it's not like Nintendo has continually made decisions that make it seem like they are out of touch with both the industry and their consumers.

You're right - what's done is done, we can only hope that it improves. Personally, I will probably skip any MP-focused Switch game because it's not worth it when it's so poorly implemented.

Mario Kart 8 DX is great fun online!

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

See, this is the hyperbole I was talking about. Switch has Mario Kart and Splatoon two of the most popular Nintendo multiplayer games of all time, do you think people will stop playing because they need to use an app to do voice chat?

Come on guys, get a hold of yourselves.

What about third party multiplayer games?

 

[commish]

Just to be clear, I absolutely think companies are capable of making dumb decisions. I think where Nintendo landed here is ultimately a dumb decision. Where I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt though is that I think often times there are sane, logical decisions that are made along the way before ultimately reaching a faulty conclusion.

I am absolutely not letting Nintendo off the hook here. I've mocked this implementation and will continue to do so. However, I also am just very interested in trying to understand the real, underlying reason that led them to launching this (not even very good) smartphone app as their primary social communication vehicle.

The only "reason" I hear is that they wanted to protect kids or something. Not sure I totally get it, tbh, and I'm not really aware of issues w/r/t to kids on other services.

Mario Kart 8 DX is great fun online!

Yeah, there are some games that don't rely on chat, but a lot do, and a lot are made much better with chat.

 

[Effect]

This is going to completely kill online for the Switch. Nobody is going to do this.

No it will not. Stop this! This nonsense needs to stop. If this doesn't improve then people will ignore it. Something people have been saying for a while now. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Splatoon 2 still have ways for people to join up with each other in the same manner as their past games. That hasn't changed at all. Nor do I expect it to change going into the future. The communication functionality of the Switch isn't going to kill people's ability or desire to actually play online if it's a game they want to play.

People keep forgetting, when the services goes paid people are paying for access to online games, the virtual console styled games with online catalog, discounts, etc. This app and the chat through it is just one part of the overall package. If it's garbage then ignore it. It's not required to play online and it's not going to stop anyone from playing online. Continue to use Discord, Skype, etc if Nintendo doesn't change this.

I personally think this app and its functions will be changed a lot between now and when the paid service starts. We're clearly in a testing/beta phase. Nintendo themselves calls it a trial period. So I agree keep sending all of that feedback to them through the app and even through the stores. Be constructive about it though.

What about third party multiplayer games?

What about them? At worse no voice chat. Doesn't stop any other menu features. I've seen nothing that suggest this app is mandatory for developers to use. They'll still very likely let you join or invite friends based on your friends list. Doesn't stop them form including lobby setups in their actual games that again pull from the friend list, have random match making, etc. None of the normal stuff (outside of voice chat) that happens in online games seems like it would be impacted by this app setup in the end. Unless Nintendo has made it mandatory and I don't think they have.

This isn't a defense of the app at all and how it currently works. I just don't understand this "the Switch is doomed" response here from some. Bash the app all one wants and Nintendo for designing it like this. Saying this will kill the Switch or online games is where I draw the line. That BS makes no sense at all and is just people being hyperbolic.

 

[Mr. F]

Hopefully the bad press snowballs enough to the point that it spooks shareholders into forcing their hand on a better solution. Or something.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

Quoting myself because this seems to have gotten lost in the sea of gamer rage.

I just use my ps golds, great audio and no disconnections, for the switch i just connect them to my out since i dont need a mic for it anyway.

Though im not 100% sure if theyre proper Bluetooth headsets

 

[NimbusD]

Why cant you have paid online service without voice chat?

Is there a guidebook?

Does it state if you can built your console so its a home console and a portable?

Because you're in a competitive marketplace where you have to at least come close to competitors to have your service taken seriously? The mental gymnastics people use to defend this is mind blowing lol. I'm a huge fucking Nintendo fanboy but come on, just cuz there's no literal published rulebook doesn't make this not stupid.

 

[phanphare]

The only "reason" I hear is that they wanted to protect kids or something. Not sure I totally get it, tbh, and I'm not really aware of issues w/r/t to kids on other services.

if that's the reason then this would be why

http://kotaku.com/child-predators-were-using-nintendos-swapnote-service-1459304126

 

[Raysoul]

Hopefully the bad press snowballs enough to the point that it spooks shareholders into forcing their hand on a better solution. Or something.

Nintendo: See we integrated our systems to mobile apps

*stock shares goes up*

 

[Steve Youngblood]

The only "reason" I hear is that they wanted to protect kids or something. Not sure I totally get it, tbh, and I'm not really aware of issues w/r/t to kids on other services.

Yeah. I don't personally buy that one.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Because companies don't make dumb decisions, right? And it's not like Nintendo has continually made decisions that make it seem like they are out of touch with both the industry and their consumers.

You're right - what's done is done, we can only hope that it improves. Personally, I will probably skip any MP-focused Switch game because it's not worth it when it's so poorly implemented.

I never said or implied that at all. I have repeatedly said throughout this thread that this is an incredibly dumb decision.

What I said was that they don't make dumb decisions just "Because Nintendo" i.e. because they are dumb. There are underlying reasons that drove them to this decision, we just don't know what they are at this point. Maybe Griss was right, that they just couldn't come up with a good enough universal solution to allow audio input on a hybrid for whatever reason, so they decided that even giving the system bluetooth functionality wouldn't be enough. Which is a dumb decision IMO, but it's based on some concrete reasoning, rather than just "because they are dumb".

 

[oti]

Hopefully the bad press snowballs enough to the point that it spooks shareholders into forcing their hand on a better solution. Or something.

This is quite possibly the most irrelevant thing for investors.

Unless the App Store reviews get bombed or something.

 

[GregLombardi]

Hopefully the bad press snowballs enough to the point that it spooks shareholders into forcing their hand on a better solution. Or something.

I haven't used the product yet, but it does sound like it has many terrible things. However, anyone that thinks this free beta is the final product and wants to yell from the rooftop about it is jumping the gun a bit in my book.

Nintendo has actually shown itself to be pretty agile recently with software issues relative to its history, anyway. Some of the fixes in BOTW / other switch software that were rectified within 1-2 months of release come to mind.

That said...some of this stuff sounds like poor decision making. Maybe there is a reason.