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[Vane_MagicCity]

But they aren't deliberately holding back the physical release to try and coerce you into using the eShop. That's where your whole "bribe" argument falls apart.

They don't need to be deliberately withholding the physical release when a deliberate early release of the digital version has the same result. I am not the one making the bribe argument.

 

[Weng]

Bribe vs incentive is a similar concept and choosing which word basically hinges on your opinion on the eShop. It is an incentive in the neutral case, but my opinion of the eShop service is so low that I'm criticizing the incentive by labeling it a bribe.

If you love the eShop just as it is then this is a great incentive by Nintendo.

I think the decision of NoA to release the digitial version earlier was not influenced by the absence of a proper account system. I bet they would have done the same if they had a proper account system in place.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

As someone who had their 3DS stolen and endured a three month back and forth with Nintendo's utterly appalling and shambolic customer service to get my downloads back (highlights of the ordeal included having to take a day off work to file a police report, endless phone calls to a premium rate number, having to prove that their courier, not me, had broken the screen of my 3DS in transit and getting the wrong download codes from them TWICE) I LAUGH IN THE FACE of anyone who says it's no big deal that their eShop is fucking prehistoric and that their customer service is anything but TRAGIC.

Since I managed to get my games back I have not downloaded a single thing from their eShop and I don't intend to do so until they pull their finger out of their arses. And, like the OP, I resent their pimping of the digital services at ridiculous prices when they should be working to fix that shit.

You shouldn't have to go through this to gain access to games you purchased.

 

[Ridley327]

Maybe we don't want it to be a trend. Maybe we don't want this to kill physical releases.

I don't think there's anything we can do to stop it at this point. It's not going to happen overnight, but it is going to happen.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Think of it this way: They could launch Wind Waker HD digitally the same time as physically by holding back the digital release. This does nothing for consumers, those who wanted to buy digitally have to wait 2 weeks from the current solution, wheras those who don't would have the same situation they have now.
The question each of you has to ask yourself is: do I value having Wind Waker HD 2 weeks early more than I dislike the digital option? Unless there is evidence the Physical release was held back rather than the digital release being brought forward, there is no way to make this a legitimate complaint.

Right, every game this gen (that had a digital and physical release) had it's digital version held back. Are you sure you want to go with this?

 

[InsaneZero]

Maybe we don't want it to be a trend. Maybe we don't want this to kill physical releases.

It's already happening with smartphone games and with most other entertainment industries.

 

[johnny956]

What significant day one discounts do Xboxlive and psn give? at least the eshop gives premium points

PS+ sometimes has 10% off on new releases day one but varies on the game

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

I don't think there's anything we can do to stop it at this point. It's not going to happen overnight, but it is going to happen.

...and it's a legitimate cause to want to slow it down. As usual though, everyone pretends to be confused about why people aren't jumping for joy. This is the beginning of something that will kill game ownership. We are the same group of gamers who didn't appreciate it when Microsoft was trying to kill game ownership and make all games the equivalent of digital versions.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Right, every game this gen (that had a digital and physical release) had it's digital version held back. Are you sure you want to go with this?

hahahahaha, okay, just to clear things up.

You do not believe that publishers hold back releasing the games digitally to appease retailers?

Edit:

...and it's a legitimate cause to want to slow it down. As usual though, everyone pretends to be confused about why people aren't jumping for joy. This is the beginning of something that will kill game ownership. We are the same group of gamers who didn't appreciate it when Microsoft was trying to kill game ownership and make all games the equivalent of digital versions.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Yes, as a matter of fact. As I mentioned earlier, you've had the ability to buy Iron Man 3 digitally since the beginning of September, which is releasing on disc on Tuesday, and nearly every major studio has joined in that practice by having many of their films available for purchase or rent digitally at least one week ahead of time. For music, free streams of albums a week in advance of their releases have been commonplace for a while now, even for highly anticipated albums, like The 20/20 Experience and Random Access Memories earlier in the year. Hell, even Jay-Z's latest abortion was digital exclusive for a week.

Cool, didn't know thanks. Like I said earlier, I'm not against this practice and it's actually a smart way to get gamers to try digital that may otherwise not think to.

I made no mention of pricing. And simply put: you don't maintain relationships with retailers by only providing them the opportunity to stock your software weeks after it's been made available for sale directly. You may not be familiar with how the wholesale/retail market works (I don't mean that insultingly), but there's a difference between catering to and actively harming that sort of relationship. The way wholesale pricing for first-party Nintendo titles is structured, they don't make room for competitive price-drops without eliminating the incentive to carry the games in the first place. When they, in effect, eliminate even the potential to sell to the more dedicated early adopter crowd, and when in the state of their Wii U system that's all there is, you should be able to see the problem they make for their partners.

Unless Nintendo wants to design its model in a way where markups make this sort of dynamic acceptable to retailers, or to sell their product directly to consumers (which would be challenging on the hardware front), this is problematic in exactly the way I described.

I have talked to retailers in the past about mark-ups and they told me they don't make much on hardware. That's why used games are such a hot commodity.

Strictly from a consumers view they see prices on Steam and ask why consoles are not as aggressive. Steam has always had a model of being digital so its' also much easier for them as opposed to companies like Nintendo who have a long history with consumers and physical discs. They don't want the many restrictions that come with digital games if the prices are the same. What Nintendo has done with Wind Walker is a great idea as it creates more demand for digital by allowing gamers to play earlier and now those opposed to digital gamers are crying foul because they are not getting the same perks. That's one way to change opinions on digital games while still giving those who want physical games the opportunity to buy the game that way too. Not sure why anyone should be upset.

 

[Dukey]

a far higher proportion of people will be screwed over by the former than the later

How are you screwed over by the lack of backwards compatibility? Are Sony and Microsoft forcing you to give up your older console to get the new one?

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Well, if you have the deluxe WiiU, you do get $5 back.

Okay. I was not aware of that.

What? Of course its a bribe. Money doesnt have to be involved in a bribe.

They are saying "if you buy it from the eShop, I will give it to you 2 weeks early", they are bribing you with getting it early, to try to get you to buy it on their eShop where they make more money.

You are correct that technically a bribe doesn't need to involve money. But to call it an insulting bribe is a bit underhanded and a sensationalist title; frankly an exaggeration of the use of both words, insulting and bribe.

OP's problem appears to be mainly with the service, not with the offer. If he just waits two weeks longer then he doesn't have to deal with the service. If he has a wiiU deluxe apparently you saves 25% which is 15% higher than normal steam pre-order savings.

I would call those savings and, in the case of not having a WiiU deluxe, just incentive. Generally speaking he is by textbook definition not incorrect, but on the other hand it is quite cynical (for lack of a better term atm) for the OP to call it a bribe.

 

[InsaneZero]

...and it's a legitimate cause to want to slow it down. As usual though, everyone pretends to be confused about why people aren't jumping for joy. This is the beginning of something that will kill game ownership. We are the same group of gamers who didn't appreciate it when Microsoft was trying to kill game ownership and make all games the equivalent of digital versions.

History has shown that those that try to slow down the accepted trends will usually end up run over by it. For most people, convenience is better than security. Just look at the PC market, and see how dead retail is.

 

[Kazerei]

There are legitimate complaints about Nintendo's digital service, but this ... this is just stupid. Amazing how people are spinning an early digital release as a bad thing. It's just an optional bonus for gamers. I'm waiting for a physical copy myself. Relax.

Right, every game this gen (that had a digital and physical release) had it's digital version held back. Are you sure you want to go with this?

It's true.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

hahahahaha, okay, just to clear things up.

You do not believe that publishers hold back releasing the games digitally to appease retailers?

Edit:

Despite you using a gif instead of directly asking me to clarify, I will clarify.

If every game on every console starts seeing an early digital release, what effect do you think that will have on physical games? Do you not see what the end game is here? They want to transition everyone over to digital copies. I can imagine that in the next few years release dates will apply ONLY to the digital version and the physical version (if we get one) will come out some time later. Pre-orders will apply to the digital version only because that is the only version that will release on the release date.

...or is this future not logical?

 

[MadScientist]

I expect digital first launches to become common very soon. This way publishers will try to prevent used game sales.

 

[thecouncil]

If there aren't incentives to buying digital, theres no point in buying digital. If you don't like the incentives based on the quality of the eShop, well, then... there we are.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

History has shown that those that try to slow down the accepted trends will usually end up run over by it. For most people, convenience is better than security. Just look at the PC market, and see how dead retail is.

You don't have to convince me of what is to come. However, I don't have to be happy about it.

It's sad that we are coming to the point when those who stand up for physical copies, and the ownership that comes with them, are the ones who are ridiculed.

If there aren't incentives to buying digital, theres no point in buying digital. If you don't like the incentives based on the quality of the eShop, well, then... there we are.

There are incentives to buying digital. Having all your games on your SD card is very nice. A discount that reflects the lowered manufacturing costs would be welcome. This is not welcome.

I would bet you that most people who dislike this early release have no problem with digital and physical releases on the same day. That's a choice and this is more like a bribe (as others have mentioned).

 

[BakedYams]

Sounds like whining, but at the end of the day, you buy what you want. Nintendo is doing nothing wrong by doing this, it's called business and people will still buy it. Would I buy it? No, I like physical copies of games and wouldn't mind waiting a couple of weeks since I already beat it three times.

 

[Fox Mulder]

early digital versions are fine as long as it's not months or something, which has been the norm for late digital versions on consoles so far.

I just havent got over the mental hurdle of buying $60 games digitally yet, so it'll be awhile before I ever consider buying them off of nintendo's poor eshop service.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

You don't have to convince me of what is to come. However, I don't have to be happy about it.

It's sad that we are coming to the point when those who stand up for physical copies, and the ownership that comes with them, are the ones who are ridiculed.

You're not being ridiculed, it's just called reality. We have seen it with music and video and gaming on the PC. As digital becomes more convenient consumers will adopt it. No more driving around town getting your copy, no more worries about software being sold-out. From a developers view more control of the used market and hopefully less piracy. I as a consumer love physical copies. I feel more ownership with it but it's easy to see why digital makes sense in todays market.

 

[equippedwithtowel]

You don't have to convince me of what is to come. However, I don't have to be happy about it.

It's sad that we are coming to the point when those who stand up for physical copies, and the ownership that comes with them, are the ones who are ridiculed.

Steam is just too good. At the end of the day it's videogames, I just want to play them cheaply and conveniently.

 

[CrisKre]

There is a slight difference between the "exclusivity" the op title suggest and a two week early availability, especially considering the early availability coincides with a pricedrop and a bundle with said game.

This is not a problem. It's an option. And if you are this nervous about deciding to wait two weeks for your preferred method of enjoying the game there might be deeper problems here.

 

[Riki]

I expect digital first launches to become common very soon. This way publishers will try to prevent used game sales.

Also helps make more money for games, which is important. They aren't paying for shipping and printing or giving retailers a cut.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

PS+ sometimes has 10% off on new releases day one but varies on the game

And you have to pay for PS+.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Despite you using a gif instead of directly asking me to clarify, I will clarify.

If every game on every console starts seeing an early digital release, what effect do you think that will have on physical games? Do you not see what the end game is here? They want to transition everyone over to digital copies. I can imagine that in the next few years release dates will apply ONLY to the digital version and the physical version (if we get one) will come out some time later. Pre-orders will apply to the digital version only because that is the only version that will release on the release date.

...or is this future not logical?

Not in the least, my paranoid friend. Not in the least.

This theory assumes that the physical version of TWWHD is releasing in october for no reason other than promoting DD, when the reason is that it takes time to manufacture the discs and packaging. It's not like they've delayed the physical release any.

The theory that they will delay all physical releases in the future is completely unfounded unless you believe that they have honestly delayed the physical version of this game.

You don't have to convince me of what is to come. However, I don't have to be happy about it.

It's sad that we are coming to the point when those who stand up for physical copies, and the ownership that comes with them, are the ones who are ridiculed.

Once again, you are assuming that the physical copy is being somehow detrimented by this. The physical copy is exactly the same, the digital copy is the one that has changed, it has become a better value to some people.

It's not about physical copies being under attack, at least not in this particular circumstance. I champion physical copies and I always believe there should be a physical option, so when their existence is in danger I will be right there with you. But this one situation with WWHD is not that moment.

 

[timetokill]

Is this really want this whole argument is boiling down to? :/

I guess some people are going to flip when people get AA5 next month.

They will, if the announcement thread was anything to go by.

I have little hope that the OT for AA5 won't be riddled with people complaining about a digital only release on the Nintendo eshop. But that's at least a different situation where there's no other way to get the game.

With this, the OP is still getting the game at the scheduled release date. There would be literally no complaint if other people weren't having fun with it first.

 

[Kazerei]

You don't have to convince me of what is to come. However, I don't have to be happy about it.

It's sad that we are coming to the point when those who stand up for physical copies, and the ownership that comes with them, are the ones who are ridiculed.

Tons of people stood up for physical when the Xbone's quasi-digital-only plans were revealed. You're being ridiculed because of your kneejerk reaction to an incentive to buy digital.

 

[JDSN]

I would like to know what Miyamoto would say about that OP, I can see Trinen showing him the link and Shiggygoing "Maaaaan, fuck this cunts, im outta here"

 

[Riki]

I would like to know what Miyamoto would say about that OP, I can see Trinen showing him the link and Shiggygoing "Maaaaan, fuck this cunts, im outta here"

He'd just laugh and have them start putting games up three weeks prior.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

It really doesn't get more whinier than "I want to wait so everyone else should have to".

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Not in the least, my paranoid friend. Not in the least.

This theory assumes that the physical version of TWWHD is releasing in october for no reason other than promoting DD, when the reason is that it takes time to manufacture the discs and packaging. It's not like they've delayed the physical release any.

The theory that they will delay all physical releases in the future is completely unfounded unless you believe that they have honestly delayed the physical version of this game.



Once again, you are assuming that the physical copy is being somehow detrimented by this. The physical copy is exactly the same, the digital copy is the one that has changed, it has become a better value to some people.

So you don't believe that early digital releases will become the standard.

Tons of people stood up for physical when the Xbone's quasi-digital-only plans were revealed. You're being ridiculed because of your kneejerk reaction to an incentive to buy digital.

I am not being ridiculed at all. I am just saying that we are coming to the point where the tables are turning.

 

[jmls1121]

How are you screwed over by the lack of backwards compatibility? Are Sony and Microsoft forcing you to give up your older console to get the new one?

No. But its bullshit that the games can't be trnasferred. Why do I want 2 boxes under my tv instead of one?

 

[TheRedSnifit]

So you don't believe that early digital releases will become the standard.

Oh noes, people will have fun with it before me!

You're literally saying that they should delay the game's release so that you don't have to be tempted by the Digital Satan.

 

[CrisKre]

So you don't believe that early digital releases will become the standard.



I am not being ridiculed at all. I am just saying that we are coming to the point where the tables are turning.

You can release digital versions early and not delay physical releases.

 

[Coffee Dog]

So you don't believe that early digital releases will become the standard.

I believe that it would be fantastic and have literally no downside. Then again, I believe that there should be more incentives to buy digital.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Oh noes, people will have fun with it before me!

You're literally saying that they should delay the game's release so that you don't have to be tempted by the Digital Satan.

Never said anything like that.

You can release digital versions early and not delay physical releases.

I never said any different.

You see, I never made the argument that the physical version is being purposely held back. Please stop pretending that I did.

I believe that it would be fantastic and have literally no downside. Then again, I believe that there should be more incentives to buy digital.

So we agree then. What Nintendo is doing with WW HD will become the standard. I am just not looking forward to it while you are.

 

[Farslain]

Edit:

To be more clear. I don't mind the concept of digital downloads coming earlier than physical releases in general. I love Steam for example. My issue is that I think the eShop has a lot of core problems that need to be addressed before buying an eShop game is as good of a value proposition as buying a retail release. Nintendo should be addressing that core problem before offering additional eShop incentives.

eShop does have problems, we should continue to buy physical over digital until a unified account system lands.

However, by your logic it sounds like you are saying Nintendo shouldn't release any games digitally until releasing a unified account system. The logic doesn't hold up. Wind Waker landing early digitally isn't holding anything else up, I may dislike eShop Nintendo, but I welcome any revenue they can make from fellow gamers.

 

[jackdoe]

In the end you just vote with your wallet. The only reason I got the digital version of Wind Waker was because I bought the bundle. However, the first Wii U I bought just died within a few hours. And after spending an hour to two hours reading up about what steps I have to take to make sure my useless old Nintendo ID doesn't affect the new Nintendo ID that I want to create with my newly exchanged Wii U, I'll never by digital from Nintendo again until they sort out this one system account issue and also create an actual way to access your account on the PC. So if Nintendo wants to delay physical releases to pimp out digital releases in the future, then I can wait until those physical releases go on sale on Black Friday. However, I definitely don't think that's the case here (though they may get ideas in the future).

 

[Louis Cyphre]

So you don't believe that early digital releases will become the standard.

I am not being ridiculed at all. I am just saying that we are coming to the point where the tables are turning.

So what do you say to those who like the convenience of digital that don't think games should be held back for physical release where packaging and shipping can cause delays?

 

[Skelter]

So what do you say to those who like the convenience of digital that don't think games should be held back for physical release where packaging and shipping can cause delays?

Hell what does he say about people buying it for the same damn price even though we aren't getting anything physical?

Two week early release is such a brilliant move.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

and also create an actual way to access your account on the PC.

You can access your account on PC, and see everything you've downloaded.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

No. But its bullshit that the games can't be trnasferred. Why do I want 2 boxes under my tv instead of one?

I guess you hated Nintendo until the Wii because they lacked BC too. I mean you had to have an NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube all connected.

Good news is that the SNES, N64 and Gamecube all shared the same AV cord.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Never said anything like that.

That's exactly what you're saying. You're saying that they should not release the game when it's ready, because you refuse to buy digital, and you'll be damned if people who will buy digital get the game before you.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Hell what does he say about people buying it for the same damn price even though we aren't getting anything physical?

Two week early release is such a brilliant move.

Speak for yourself, I got it for $45

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

So what do you say to those who like the convenience of digital that don't think games should be held back for physical release where packaging and shipping can cause delays?

I say that early digital releases may be nice at the moment but they will ultimately lead to fewer physical games on the shelves. I

I like the convenience of digital and I think it's completely fair play to release both at the same time. However, giving a 2 week advantage to digital is going to eventually hurt physical copies. Sooner or later physical games will be phased out. Sort of like how alot of games don't get physical releases outside of Japan.

 

[frankie_baby]

How are you screwed over by the lack of backwards compatibility? Are Sony and Microsoft forcing you to give up your older console to get the new one?

most people sell or trade in their old consoles when they get new ones

 

[iammeiam]

A discount that reflects the lowered manufacturing costs would be welcome. This is not welcome.

You are literally saying you're okay with the offer of financial incentive (sort of like a bribe), but not with an offer of time incentive? Both lower pricing and earlier releases are inherent benefits of the digital format (no production/shipping costs, no production/shipping time.) Ideally both would be offered--cheaper and faster--but neither is any more artificial than the other.

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

That's exactly what you're saying. You're saying that they should not release the game when it's ready, because you refuse to buy digital, and you'll be damned if people who will buy digital get the game before you.

Sorry, that's not what I am saying at all. I buy plenty of digital games even from Nintendo. I just don't appreciate the 2 week advantage because I fear it's going to kill physical copies.

I don't know how much clearer I can explain this.

 

[jackdoe]

You can access your account on PC, and see everything you've downloaded.

I meant more than just seeing what I've downloaded. I also meant pretty much authorizing and deauthorizing consoles so in the scenario that your Wii U dies, you can deauthorize it. And that's a promotional website.