Nioh Co-Op is not very good

Dec 12, 2015
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#1
2 Disclaimers before you read on:

1. This co-op issue is about blind friend co-op...mainly.
2. For those who have no clue how to read this OP in its entirety, Nioh has 2 forms of co-op. The most important here is its own BALANCED CO-OP MODE called Tori-Gate Yokai with Companion mode. Totally different implementation than Soulsborne co-op. It's not EZ MODE co-op so stop coming in this thread and saying "co-op is ez mode, git gud".
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Are you one of those jolly friend co-op players who was able to co-op seamlessly with your friends during the betas and decided to buy Nioh because you were led to believe you could do a blind friend co-op playthrough of the entire game together in the final version?

Well things have changed because Team Ninja won't let you have fun with that anymore, even though you could do that 2 weeks before the game came out in the Last Chance Trial (the only beta I played).
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There are 2 forms of engaging in co-op in Nioh. They both differ though in mechanics though.

1. Souls-like summoning: Only one friend needs to have the corresponding mission beaten which allows him to join as a visitor for randoms/friends.

  • The visitor needs to have the mission beaten to join the host (who needs to offer an Ochoko cup at a shrine).
  • The visitor can't interact with anything except for healing pools.
  • If visitor dies he gets sent back to map screen
  • There will be a "fog-like wall" before the boss in this mode
  • The visitor CAN pick up loot
  • The visitor CANNOT pick up Kodama.
  • Works pretty much identical to souls co-op apart from the "one friend needs to beat a mission entirely" part

2. (THIS IS THE TRUE NIOH INTENDED CO-OP MODE) Tori-Gate (Yokai with Companion) Co-Op: Both have to beat the mission in order to engage with this mode.

This mode is TAILOR-MADE FOR CO-OP and challenging.

(This restriction also applies to sub-missions and even Twighlight missions).
  • First and foremost, this mode is a BALANCED co-op mode for Nioh.
  • During the mission, you have a blue shared "life" meter that will drain when your partner is down. It drains faster the further apart you are. Revive your friend before it drains completely or mission over.
  • You have 1 SHOT to get through the mission. If you both die, mission is over and you must start from the beginning. Shortcuts unlocked are reset so they actually don't do anything in your favor.
  • You and your partner can only use shrines for 1 PURPOSE ONLY. To replenish your blue life meter. Sadly, the shrines only give very little back.
  • You can't use ANY of the features of the shrine like you can normally in a single-player mission.
  • When you fail the mission, you always start from the beginning at the first shrine.
  • Both players in the mission can interact with everything including Kodama.
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As you can see, there is no way to do a blind friend co-op playthrough because in order to engage with the most balanced mode for co-op in this game, (Tori-Gate Yokai with Companion), both players have to have beaten the mission first.

There are other problems that stem from how the co-op is handled in this game.

Example 1) This example will apply to the Souls-like summoning method. If you summon a random into your game to help you, you are summoning someone who has already beaten the level. Sounds good on paper right? But the experience I had was all 4 of my visitors starting clearing out the entire level for me while I was trying to explore so I was forced to die to get them out and restart. I was testing this while waiting for my friend to join. If this is how Team Ninja thinks co-op should work in that sense, then they need to get their heads straight.

My friend and I never had issues playing co-op in all the missions in the Last Chance Trial.

The Yokai with Companion co-op mode through the Tori Gate is a BALANCED CO-OP MODE for Nioh. I can't believe people are running into this thread and think co-op wasn't something serious for this game. I'm sorry but Team Ninja thought the opposite in as much to develop a balanced, challenging co-op mode intended for friends to play together. However, they went 2 steps back in not allowing you to play the game blind. It defeats the entire sense of challenge that the developers are known to care about for their games.

If you are smart enough to understand what I'm trying to say, then you are smart enough to see that how many NeoGaf single player elitists have come out of the woodwork and not read this OP clearly.

It's amazing. I've read almost every comment here and everyone thinks co-op in this game is just some tacked on EZ mode when that IS NOT THE CASE. Do your research like reading this.

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And before you say the devs are very receptive to feedback, apparently Koei Tecmo does this with all their games. They have very backward mentality towards co-op mechanics and it seems that lines up with what we got on release. They actually changed it for the worse. There was literally no backlash to the co-op implementation in the Last Chance Trial.

Edit: For people saying this game wasn't marketed for online co-op. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the publisher (Sony) think it's the second most important thing worth mentioning on their WEBSITE:

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/nioh-ps4/
 
Oct 9, 2013
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#5
Rolling my eyes into my skull. It's a single player story based RPG, like the vast majority of story based video games. Just because it has similar combat to Souls doesn't mean it's Souls.
 
Feb 5, 2009
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#6
Reminds me of Dark Souls and how hard it was to play with a particular person. I had to call my brother on the phone to play it with him since the game blocked online play while in a party chat. Why don't they just make it easy to play this style of game with a friend!?
 
Aug 19, 2010
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#7
Sounds like coop is meant more for people to help out other folks who are struggling with missions. It's primarily a single player game. It would probably be way to easy if you cooped the entire game. It's just not meant to be that kind of play the entire game in coop type of game.
 
Nov 8, 2009
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#8
Yup, agreed. I was hoping for playing through the entire game cooperatively.
I hope they patch this like it was in the beta because the only reason me and a friend wanted it, was to play together through the game in coop.

Sounds like coop is meant more for people to help out other folks who are struggling with missions.It's primarily a single player game.
If it was there is the beta why take it out? Let players play it the way they want a lot of people including myself wanted to play it coop.

Lol talk about exaggeration. It's not that bad, Koei must have their reasons for this I was guessing maybe they wanted atleast one of you two to experience and complete that single player game yourself.

Then you can help out a fried via coop if they need. It's ultimately a single player game.
The way the beta played i was under the impression it was SP or coop from start to finish.

But if people want it why not just add it? Doesn't hurt you and it will sell copies to people who want it.
 

GearFourth

Junior Member
Feb 20, 2016
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#9
Lol talk about exaggeration. The coop design choices might not float with some people, Koei must have their reasons for this I was guessing maybe they wanted atleast one of you two to experience and complete that single player game yourself.

Then you can help out a fried via coop if they need. It's ultimately a single player game.
 
Mar 8, 2007
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#11
It's by no means a disaster by any stretch. This game plays really well once you unlock the requirements for the co-op and the connections are lightning fast and lag free.
 
Dec 12, 2015
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#15
Rolling my eyes into my skull. It's a single player story based RPG, like the vast majority of story based video games. Just because it has similar combat to Souls doesn't mean it's Souls.
Sounds like coop is meant more for people to help out other folks who are struggling with missions. It's primarily a single player game. It would probably be way to easy if you cooped the entire game. It's just not meant to be that kind of play the entire game in coop type of game.
Did you guys forget the part where the betas let you play the entire beta in co-op, including twilight missions? Because I didn't forget because I played it seamlessly with my friend in co-op.

Stop saying it's a single-player RPG ffs. That single-player elitist attitude towards these type of games (soulsborne) needs to die.
 
Mar 23, 2015
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#16
It's a DISASTER. We don't win anymore. We're losing to China. The Iran nuclear deal has been a disaster, we should never have signed it.
Aha I'm glad I wasn't the only who noticed loool xD

Sorry to go off topic, but the title reminded me of a Trump tweet. It only needed 'Sad!' at the end to complete it.

That's when you know politics has gone too far :p
 
May 11, 2011
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#17
Sounds like coop is meant more for people to help out other folks who are struggling with missions. It's primarily a single player game. It would probably be way to easy if you cooped the entire game. It's just not meant to be that kind of play the entire game in coop type of game.
You're missing the point though,as mentioned in the OP it was changed from the beta. The beta allowed it.

Besides, let people play how they want. If it's too easy then that's on the people cooping.
 
Oct 9, 2013
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#19
Did you guys forget the part where the betas let you play the entire beta in co-op, including twilight missions? Because I didn't forget because I played it seamlessly with my friend in co-op.

Stop saying it's a single-player RPG ffs. That single-player elitist attitude towards these type of games (soulsborne) needs to die.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

The betas didn't have a single player story. The game has a single player story. I have no idea why the betas let you play the entire thing in co-op, but it probably had to do with allowing gamers to master the combat before they got the game.

I'm saying it's a single-player RPG because it's a single-player RPG. It's not elitism, it's facts.
 
Dec 12, 2015
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#20
You have no idea what you're talking about.

The betas didn't have a story. The game has a story. I have no idea why the betas let you play the entire thing in co-op, but it probably had to do with allowing gamers to master the combat before they got the game.

I'm saying it's a single-player RPG because it's a single-player RPG. It's not elitism, it's facts.
Same excuse the single player-minded players had towards the co-op crowd who argued that the soulsborne co-op mechanics were tedious.

"it's a single-player RPG"...

Then why does it have co-op? Why does it have 2 forms of co-op if it's so much a single-player RPG? <--sarcasm

Oh wait, it's got a STORY! Oh man, makes it even more single-player focused!
<--sarcasm
 

Mutagenic

Permanent Junior Member
Aug 18, 2007
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#23
I agree. My friend and I both purchased the game expecting to play through it together as our first run. I wish they would have made it clear the beta wasn't indicative of the final version's co-op mode.
 
Dec 12, 2015
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#28
Can you play bloodborne's campaign completely cooperative?
In all the Soulsborne games (never played demon souls), you can do a blind co-op playthrough, but you have to do the level twice together to progress each other's story. But you didn't have to have one person beat the entire level first to help the other friend. That's only in Nioh!
 
Jul 24, 2007
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#31
This was already known from the demo versions, was it not?

I remember only being able to drop my summon sign if I had beaten a boss in that area. I did only partake in the very first Alpha and might have remembered things incorrectly though.

On one hand I actually think it's a good thing. It does prohibit players who are new to an area from dropping their summon sign and mapping out the entire area in another person's session. I did this a lot in Dark Souls 3; I'd immediately drop my summon sign in a new area, help someone beat boss, and then return to my own session -- knowing mostly everything about the area, including the best route to the boss -- without risking any real deaths.

I understand that some players want to do the entire thing in co-op without any restrictions though. It just seems that the game's MP was designed with the consideration in mind that I detailed above.
 
Jul 24, 2013
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#32
Yokai coop missions via the Tori gate clearly weren't meant for regular blind play, given that they've even more (and higher level) spawns than twilight missions.

As for the change from the LCT, yes, it is a mild inconvenience. Certainly isn't a disaster. That's just hyperbole. System works well.
 
Mar 3, 2008
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#33
Kind of sucks, but my co-op partner and I are beating it solo first anyways. It's different enough, just same level geometry and bosses. The levels aren't even close to the same thing. It's like super twilight mode. Playing it only in that mode first would be really strange.

The revenants are free, too. I fight every single one I see.
 
Aug 31, 2011
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#34
In all the Soulsborne games (never played demon souls), you can do a blind co-op playthrough, but you have to do the level twice together to progress each other's story. But you didn't have to have one person beat the entire level first to help the other friend. That's only in Nioh!
Interesting. Thanks for the clarification.
 
Aug 17, 2016
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#35
Why do all these JRPGs have issues with co-op. password invites? WTF is that. are we back in the NES days when you got a password after beating a level so you can start there next time? Drop in drop out co-op at least at the start of a mission with a simple invite should be standard in all co-op games.
 
May 11, 2010
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#38
I agree it is shoddy. Let people play in co-op how they want. It may well make the game easier but that is up to the players.

Quite confident they'll patch the requirement out if enough players request it.

But dude your title is a bit bait-ish lol.
 

Jito

Banned
Jul 10, 2013
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#40
Everything in a games beta / alpha is subject to change. Sucks they removed something you enjoyed, but I guess they didn't like it.
 

Xion_Stellar

People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Feb 22, 2014
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#41
Can you play bloodborne's campaign completely cooperative?
Yes in fact I'm doing that very same thing with my nephew right now but the only two restrictions in Bloodborne is that there's an "area threshold" you have to meet before you can summon a friend (basically the first 10% of a new area has to be done alone) and once you defeat a boss in an area a player can't co op in that area anymore (Just the host thou your friend can still summon you in his world just as long as he hasn't defeated the area boss).


It's very disappointing to hear about this OP because me and my nephew were both thinking of buying Nioh to experience the game together the same way we are doing with Bloodborne at the moment but now I don't feel like buying the game anymore.

I am not surprised to be honest. The same thing happened with Toukiden kiwami. Both players have to have beaten the mission. Plus offline missions though identical don't count towards online either. Leaving a non desirable co-op.
I had a few qualms with the game but I will admit that's one of the reasons why me and my roommate dropped the game.
 
Sep 20, 2012
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#42
I am not surprised to be honest. The same thing happened with Toukiden kiwami. Both players have to have beaten the mission. Plus offline missions though identical don't count towards online either. Leaving a non desirable co-op.
 
Jan 10, 2013
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#43
I am pretty sure you couldn't Coop in the Alpha or Beta without beating the level first. I didn't need coop in the last preview so I am not sure about that one.
 
May 14, 2006
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#49
WTF is this shit?! I was so looking forward to co-op with a friend through the whole game! Why did they change that?! UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH! It's fun playing it with a friend through new things.
 
Mar 19, 2015
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#50
Did you guys forget the part where the betas let you play the entire beta in co-op, including twilight missions? Because I didn't forget because I played it seamlessly with my friend in co-op.

Stop saying it's a single-player RPG ffs. That single-player elitist attitude towards these type of games (soulsborne) needs to die.
Stating facts is not being elitist...? What

Time to git gud OP and not cheese through it with the help others.

Is it at least harder in co-op? I never use it, not for Souls nor will I here.
Now this is elitism. Even if it's meant as a single player game, playing co-op is not "cheesing" through the game, lol

Why do all these JRPGs have issues with co-op. password invites? WTF is that. are we back in the NES days when you got a password after beating a level so you can start there next time? Drop in drop out co-op at least at the start of a mission with a simple invite should be standard in all co-op games.
It's by design, co-op shouldn't be easily and readily avaible, since it's more like of an extra help than a consistent thing . Creating lobbies and such would take away a bunch of the magic of Soulsborne co-op imo