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[Learn2read]

I definiatly wouldn't consider the country horrible yet, but it's really unbelivable how much this administration has run shit into the ground in the past 6 years. If I wasn't here I don't think I'd believe it.

 

[Compton's Most Wanted]

There is also a difference between thinking the some things are wrong here, and not being happy to live here. I love my country, I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else, but damn if a lot of it isn’t ****ed up right now.

But for every example you give of a country f'ed up, I can give you examples of a country moving in a better direction. It all depends on your personal views. If the country were to turn decidedly liberal on social and economic issues, I wouldnt talk as if the country were going to hell. I would get off my ass and make a difference. The conservative movement several decades ago faced that challenge as well, and rose from political ashes.

 

[White Man]

But for every example you give of a country f'ed up, I can give you examples of a country moving in a better direction.

How is the country moving in a better direction?

 

[Matt]

But for every example you give of a country f'ed up, I can give you examples of a country moving in a better direction. It all depends on your personal views. If the country were to turn decidedly liberal on social and economic issues, I wouldnt talk as if the country were going to hell. I would get off my ass and make a difference. The conservative movement several decades ago faced that challenge as well, and rose from political ashes.

OK, well, I would really like to hear them.

 

[JayDubya]

lol @ all you people mentioning Katrina. Bush causes hurricanes now? /rolleyes

Oh wait, Kanye West says he hates black people, it must be true!

Corrupt / dumbass / incompetant local officials had nothing to do with the New Orleans debacle whatsoever, it's all the president's fault! >_>

 

[Compton's Most Wanted]

can you explain to me how anyone's grievances over that one are at all hyperbolic?

Well, while I believe Bush and the administration handled the aftermath horribly, the accusation that it was intentionally done and that Bush is a racist certainly qualify.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

lol @ all you people mentioning Katrina. Bush causes hurricanes now? /rolleyes

Oh wait, Kanye West says he hates black people, it must be true!

Kanye West put a My Little Pony collecter in charge of FEMA?

 

[Matt]

lol @ all you people mentioning Katrina. Bush causes hurricanes now? /rolleyes

Oh wait, Kanye West says he hates black people, it must be true!

No, it's the fact that he and his administration handled the situation is the most piss-poor manner possible that makes us say that.

 

[JayDubya]

You're right, it was Brownie Brown that told Nagin not to evacuate in a timely manner.

Pictures like this are directly attributable to George Bush's lack of foresight.

You have PLENTY of legitimate grievances to air against this president, but the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is not one of them.

 

[Learn2read]

Kanye West put a My Little Pony collecter in charge of FEMA?

:lol :lol :lol :lol

Heckuva job there Scootie.

 

[Matt]

You're right, it was Brownie Brown that told Nagin not to evacuate in a timely manner.

Pictures like this are directly attributable to George Bush's lack of foresight.

You have PLENTY of legitimate grievances to air against this president, but the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is not one of them.

...Why not?

 

[LordMaji]

Delusional republicans for teh rox0rz... :lol

 

[Compton's Most Wanted]

How is the country moving in a better direction?

Every example I give is a socially/economically conservative answer. So as I said before, it's entirely subjective. As a business major (and future entrepeneur....I hope ), I like what he done for business. As a Christian, I like what he's done in respect to marriage, and his emphasis on life. There are many, many more examples I can give.

 

[N Coward Parody]

Well, while I believe Bush and the administration handled the aftermath horribly, the accusation that it was intentionally done and that Bush is a racist certainly qualify.

who mentioned racism in this thread? or intentionality? i mean, bush could love black people and have the best intentions in the world for all i care -- that doesn't make his handling of katrina anything short of inept (this goes for the local authorities too).

come on, the dude's a shitty leader. you may agree with his "values," but i don't see how you can believe that the man's fit for the job.

 

[Learn2read]

Every example I give is a socially/economically conservative answer. So as I said before, it's entirely subjective. As a business major (and future entrepenuer....I hope ), I like what he done for business. As a Christian, I like what he's done in respect to marriage, and his emphasis on life. There are many, many more examples I can give.

please explain.

 

[White Man]

please explain.

Bush is great because he doesn't want gays to marry.

 

[Matt]

Every example I give is a socially/economically conservative answer. So as I said before, it's entirely subjective. As a business major (and future entrepenuer....I hope ), I like what he done for business. As a Christian, I like what he's done in respect to marriage, and his emphasis on life. There are many, many more examples I can give.

Considering the amount of people that have died as a result of this President’s decisions, I don’t really know how that qualifies as an “emphasis on life”…

And what has he done for business that you agree with?

 

[JayDubya]

...Why not?

Counterpoint: Why? The fact that this is even a liberal talking point is absurd.

Do you want to ignore the local level entirely, and the state level, and skip straight to blaming the president? The buck stops WAAAAAAY before the chief executive. Local officials could have updated / strengthened the levy long before this hurricane, they chose not to, and it would seem they were imprudent in doing so. Nagin could have been more thorough or asked for more help earlier, but he didn't. The infamous school bus picture shows they had the means to evacuate a shit-ton of people, but didn't use them.

 

[LordMaji]

Every example I give is a socially/economically conservative answer. So as I said before, it's entirely subjective. As a business major (and future entrepeneur....I hope ), I like what he done for business. As a Christian, I like what he's done in respect to marriage, and his emphasis on life. There are many, many more examples I can give.

...wow. :lol

You crack me up man. :lol

Future entrepeneur in stand up. Don't miss your calling home boy. hehe.

 

[N Coward Parody]

Do you want to ignore the local level entirely, and the state level, and skip straight to blaming the president? The buck stops WAAAAAAY before the chief executive.

how do enormous failings on the local and state levels at all justify or excuse enormous failings on the federal level?

 

[Compton's Most Wanted]

please explain.

I think it's pretty obvious. Bush is anti-abortion, and so am I. We can debate this in another thread if you want. :lol Bush hasnt bowed to the science community on stem cells, and neither would I (we can debate this as well). He respects the sanctity of marriage and is against gays marrying, and so am I. So you can understand why I'm pretty satisfied with how things are going on that particular front.

 

[Matt]

Counterpoint: Why? The fact that this is even a liberal talking point is absurd.

Do you want to ignore the local level entirely, and the state level, and skip straight to blaming the president? The buck stops WAAAAAAY before the chief executive.

Yes, I do want to ignore the local and state levels entirely, because the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana in no way, shape, or form, could possibly have handled that situation on their own. That’s what we have a federal government for, to do the jobs that the states can’t do alone.

 

[N Coward Parody]

I think it's pretty obvious. Bush is anti-abortion, and so am I. We can debate this in another thread if you want. Bush hasnt bowed to the science community on stem cells, and neither would I (we can debate this as well). He respects the sanctity of marriage and is against gays marrying, and so am I. So you can understand why I'm pretty satisfied with how things are going on that particular front.

what's that have to do with business?

 

[JayDubya]

Yes, I do want to ignore the local and state levels entirely, because the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana in no way, shape, or form, could possibly have handled that situation on their own. That’s what we have a federal government for, to do the jobs that the states can’t do alone.

Really? Spending the appropriate amount of city funds to maintain and inspect their levee is a federal concern? Proper evacuation planning is a federal concern? None of these things could have made a difference?

 

[White Man]

I think it's pretty obvious. Bush is anti-abortion, and so am I. We can debate this in another thread if you want. :lol Bush hasnt bowed to the science community on stem cells, and neither would I (we can debate this as well). He respects the sanctity of marriage and is against gays marrying, and so am I. So you can understand why I'm pretty satisfied with how things are going on that particular front.

So basically you think the US should be a Christian Theocracy? I think the gov't should stay out of my frickin' racket and let me do what I want.

 

[Learn2read]

Counterpoint: Why? The fact that this is even a liberal talking point is absurd.

Do you want to ignore the local level entirely, and the state level, and skip straight to blaming the president? The buck stops WAAAAAAY before the chief executive.

I would imagine there are a ton of things that the local authorities could have done better. But the simple fact is that when something of this magnatude happens, we look to the national gov't for help because they are the one's with the resources and coordination to be able to help. That's the whole ****in' reason to form a country numbnuts.

 

[Compton's Most Wanted]

what's that have to do with business?

Huh? I was answering a question.

 

[Matt]

I think it's pretty obvious. Bush is anti-abortion, and so am I. We can debate this in another thread if you want. :lol Bush hasnt bowed to the science community on stem cells, and neither would I (we can debate this as well). He respects the sanctity of marriage and is against gays marrying, and so am I. So you can understand why I'm pretty satisfied with how things are going on that particular front.

Well, as a point of fact, I don’t see why. Bush hasn’t been able to stop gay marriage, stem cell research still goes on, and abortion is never going away. Even with the things you pride him on, he still seems like a miserable failure.

 

[boredJonathan]

I think it's pretty obvious. Bush is anti-abortion, and so am I. We can debate this in another thread if you want. :lol Bush hasnt bowed to the science community on stem cells, and neither would I (we can debate this as well). He respects the sanctity of marriage and is against gays marrying, and so am I. So you can understand why I'm pretty satisfied with how things are going on that particular front.

What about the issues that were raised earlier in regards to spying on this countries own citizens? Illegal wire tapping, outing of CIA agents?

The issues you are raising may be pluses in your book, but I fail to see how any of the above actions that have taken place under this president can be anything but damning for any citizen of this country.

 

[N Coward Parody]

Really? Spending the appropriate amount of city funds to maintain and inspect their levee is a federal concern? Proper evacuation planning is a federal concern? None of these things could have made a difference?

this line of thinking begins to lead in a pretty retarded direction, such as:
"isn't new york city responsible for not gathering the proper intelligence to prevent 9/11?"

oh boy
does this thread make me feel unclean

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Well, as a point of fact, I don’t see why. Bush hasn’t been able to stop gay marriage, stem cell research still goes on, and abortion is never going away. Even with the things you pride him on, he still seems like a miserable failure.

:lol its like voting for a president because they like the same baseball team as you.

 

[JayDubya]

I think it's pretty obvious. Bush is anti-abortion, and so am I. We can debate this in another thread if you want. :lol Bush hasnt bowed to the science community on stem cells, and neither would I (we can debate this as well). He respects the sanctity of marriage and is against gays marrying, and so am I. So you can understand why I'm pretty satisfied with how things are going on that particular front.

I think the only thing I agree with you is the abortion thing. Bush's stem cell policy is a compromise between banning stem cell use entirely or allowing it entirely - he took the halfway route, and I suppose that's better than what the religious right wanted. The rest of that shit violates the rights of individuals. I don't think anyone has the right to say, hrm, I want my kid to not live, please kill it for me mister medical official.

 

[Compton's Most Wanted]

So basically you think the US should be a Christian Theocracy? I think the gov't should stay out of my frickin' racket and let me do what I want.

"Christian Theocracy" huh...:lol . Because I think abortion is wrong and because I'm against gay marriage I want to hit everyone over the head with a Bible now and impose Christianity on every U.S citizen? C'mon White Man.

 

[way more]

Counterpoint: Why? The fact that this is even a liberal talking point is absurd.

Do you want to ignore the local level entirely, and the state level, and skip straight to blaming the president? The buck stops WAAAAAAY before the chief executive. Local officials could have updated / strengthened the levy long before this hurricane, they chose not to, and it would seem they were imprudent in doing so. Nagin could have been more thorough or asked for more help earlier, but he didn't. The infamous school bus picture shows they had the means to evacuate a shit-ton of people, but didn't use them.

Truman Defeats Bush!

 

[JayDubya]

this line of thinking begins to lead in a pretty retarded direction, such as:
"isn't new york city responsible for not gathering the proper intelligence to prevent 9/11?"

oh boy
does this thread make me feel unclean

Yes, because they are exactly the same thing. Natural disasters that regularly occur every year like clockwork and maintenance on the engineering marvel that ALLOWS YOUR CITY TO EXIST is exactly the same thing as the airline's lack of security against men with boxcutters. My bad.

 

[White Man]

"Christian Theocracy" huh...:lol . Because I think abortion is wrong and because I'm against gay marriage I want to hit everyone over the head with a Bible now and impose Christianity on every U.S citizen? C'mon White Man.

You said it yourself:

As a Christian, I like what he's done in respect to marriage, and his emphasis on life.

You think his political decisions have been good from a Christian point of view. Political decisions shouldn't have squat to do with religion.

 

[JayDubya]

Truman Defeats Bush!

THIS particular buck sure as hell doesn't go to the President.

 

[Learn2read]

I think it's pretty obvious. Bush is anti-abortion, and so am I. We can debate this in another thread if you want. :lol Bush hasnt bowed to the science community on stem cells, and neither would I (we can debate this as well). He respects the sanctity of marriage and is against gays marrying, and so am I. So you can understand why I'm pretty satisfied with how things are going on that particular front.

So, he's turned the US Gov't into a Crony mill, started an unnecessary war that's killed thousands of our soldiers, driven us into deep, deep dept...

but that's all OK because it makes you uncomfortable when one man puts his WOO-HOO into anothers mans AWOOOGA.

 

[Compton's Most Wanted]

Well, as a point of fact, I don’t see why. Bush hasn’t been able to stop gay marriage, stem cell research still goes on, and abortion is never going away. Even with the things you pride him on, he still seems like a miserable failure.

If every one of them were outright banned, they would STILL go on regardless, so I fail to see your point.

 

[Learn2read]

Do you also want to ban artificial insemination, because stem cell research was only going to be on those embryos that were created for that purpose and were going to be destroyed anyway. (by the 100s of thousands, eek)

 

[N Coward Parody]

Yes, because they are exactly the same thing. Natural disasters that regularly occur every year like clockwork and maintenance on the engineering marvel that ALLOWS YOUR CITY TO EXIST is exactly the same thing as the airline's lack of security against men with boxcutters. My bad.

i knew that'd rile your ass up, heh.

perhaps i was being, um, hyperbolic...

but it still stands that the federal government has a major responsibility to the country in times of national disaster. hell, what's the department of homeland security for if not disaster prevention and management? and in what ways did they execute their duties adequately? you're on mighty shaky ground, my friend...

 

[Compton's Most Wanted]

You said it yourself:



You think his political decisions have been good from a Christian point of view. Political decisions shouldn't have squat to do with religion.

Your wrong, because a Christian point of view remains a point of view. Certain political decisions and a religious point of view cannot be mutually exclusive. You dont have to be a Christian to be anti-abortion (in fact many arent). So in the event that Bush was an atheist, his stance on abortion still reflects mine.

 

[Matt]

If every one of them were outright banned, they would STILL go on regardless, so I fail to see your point.

Well, I guess my point is that NONE of thoes have been banned. So Bush has done none of the good you attribute to him. Yet, he has done all of the bad we say.

 

[UltimaKilo]

The only thing that will change Bush's approval rating is the price of gasoline

I agree with you, but that's not going to happen. Think about it, our economy is stong and moving, Zarqawi is dead, and troop numbers are said to be reduced by the end of the year.

If I was Bush, I'd do more to promote his alternate fuels bill which is already under way.

His ratings will go up IF we reduce our troops AND catch Bin Laden.


Oh and yea, I doubt the President cares about his approval ratings at this point. Presidents usually have a bad approval rating at this point of their second terms and focus more on leaving office on a good note.

 

[Compton's Most Wanted]

So, he's turned the US Gov't into a Crony mill, started an unnecessary war that's killed thousands of our soldiers, driven us into deep, deep dept...

but that's all OK because it makes you uncomfortable when one man puts his WOO-HOO into anothers mans AWOOOGA.

Again, all of those arent facts (except the debt), but personal opinions. I would argue that cronyism was much more prevelant in the Clinton administration than this one. Cronyism and politics are a fact.

 

[Hamfam]

Every example I give is a socially/economically conservative answer. So as I said before, it's entirely subjective. As a business major (and future entrepeneur....I hope ), I like what he done for business. As a Christian, I like what he's done in respect to marriage, and his emphasis on life. There are many, many more examples I can give.

So basically you support him because:

- He gave tax cuts to the most well off, (While at the sametime driving up the deficit to record highs)

- He made a knowingly futile attempt to ban gay people from marrying simply to rile up his base at a time when he has no other policies which the US public as a whole really support him on

- And because he is trying to take away a woman's right of abortion

It really amazes me how someone can actually support someone over such shitty reasons.

 

[Matt]

Oh and yea, I doubt the President cares about his approval ratings at this point. Presidents usually have a bad approval rating at this point of their second terms and focus more on leaving office on a good note.

Of course he cares. If his approval ratings are low, no one in congress will support his initiatives, therefore keeping him from doing anything he might want to accomplish.

 

[JayDubya]

Your wrong, because a Christian point of view remains a point of view. Certain political decisions and a religious point of view cannot be mutually exclusive. You dont have to be a Christian to be anti-abortion (in fact many arent). So in the event that Bush was an atheist, his stance on abortion still reflects mine.

Reporting for duty, yo.

So basically you support him because:

- He gave proportional tax cuts to everyone

- And because he is trying to take away a woman's fundamental right TO HAVE THEIR UNBORN CHILD MURDERED IN THE WOMB

FIX'D.

 

[Learn2read]

i knew that'd rile your ass up, heh.

perhaps i was being, um, hyperbolic...

but it still stands that the federal government has a major responsibility to the country in times of national disaster. hell, what's the department of homeland security for if not disaster prevention and management? and in what ways did they execute their duties adequately? you're on mighty shaky ground, my friend...

I do believe the levies were federally funded, and the funding was cut before Katrina. There are many projects around the country that are good for the country as a whole (like the levies) but benefit one area disproportionatley. I suppose you could make the argument that Bush is somewhat responsible since levy funding was cut, but IMO that is a bit of a stretch considering they wouldn't have been completed in time for Katrina anyway. (See repubs, how I didn't go for it the instant-criticism, that's what it's like when you like in the realtiy-based community)

 

[Compton's Most Wanted]

Well, I guess my point is that NONE of thoes have been banned. So Bush has done none of the good you attribute to him. Yet, he has done all of the bad we say.

Bush and many conservatives pushed the Gay Marriage ban initiative that was passed in several states (many by a sweeping vote I might add). Bush has appointed Federal and Supreme Court justices that will play a key role in many social issues while preserving the laws many conservatives support. So he's done well.