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[Kosma]

The problem is that 16-35 male gamers aren't buying the Wii but the 360 and PS3, and that's what makes COD4 and Assassins Creed sell. Hence these games will remain on the 360 and PS3.

I know it's anecdotal but the only people that buy a Wii where I work are : 1) kids up till 14 or so who don't have the cash for 360/PS3 2) Nintendo fans 3) extreme casuals interested in Wii Sports

 

[wsippel]

Do you know what you are talking about?

Source is a very Pc centric engine, no wonder it could be scaled to the needs of the original xbox which has pc like structure and uses DX. The Wii doesn't have a PC like structure and doesn't support DX. So in short , it wouldn't be that easy and maybe not even possible at all.
Even PS3 struggles to do a good job at Orange Box because it's not structured like a PC (and doesn't support DX I think).

Source is also a highly modular engine. Throw out the D3D renderer and replace it with a GX renderer, and you're pretty much done. The Wii is also much closer to a PC than either Xbox360 or PS3, at least regarding the CPU.

 

[Petrae]

Even when they are supporting the Wii, they, in an epic shown of idiocy, they decided to release a bunch of (compared to their previous efforts) good Wii games the day after Mario Galaxy launched.

I guess they did that in the foolish hope people would see Galaxy and somehow decide to buy MoH2:Heroes.

Perhaps the thinking was that SMG was going to open the floodgates on software buying, plus many were probably trying to take advantage of the holiday shopping season. It's also important to remember that there were still several weeks left in the season after SMG's arrival, meaning that there was room for more than one successful title for the Wii's holiday.

I do agree that publishers bank too much on Q4 for their success, but I think that we might be seeing a shift in this thinking... see SSBB, for example. (Also, GTAIV for XB360.)

Gaming can be a year-round thing if publishers allow it. Stagger your releases and give them all a chance.

 

[jarrod]

Do you know what you are talking about?

Source is a very Pc centric engine, no wonder it could be scaled to the needs of the original xbox which has pc like structure and uses DX. The Wii doesn't have a PC like structure and doesn't support DX. So in short , it wouldn't be that easy and maybe not even possible at all.
Even PS3 struggles to do a good job at Orange Box because it's not structured like a PC (and doesn't support DX I think).

Uh, Wii certainly does have a "PC like" structure... hell it's motherboard is all modified IBM/Ati chips and it runs Open GL. It just doesn't have Windows. :lol

PS3 struggles at Orange Box because Valve cared enough to outsource it to EA's armpit.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I guess that it's important (to me, anyway) for devs to remember that traditional control-- with a dash of waggle, rather than a gallon-- is still entirely possible on the Wii and will attract even more players.

EDIT: Aaargh... apparently Fresquito and I were thinking the same thing, but he beat me to it.

Do you remember Itagaki's trollish interview about the PSP, where he said he doesn't consider it a handheld? His rationale was that it has no distinguishing features that would make you want to put a traditional console game on it. Any game with normal controls that he could release on the PSP could be done better on PS2, or exponentially better on PS3/360. He didn't see the point. He saw the unique feature of the DS (touch screen) and the unique feature of the Wii (motion controls), and reasoned that he could design compelling gameplay around those unique features.

Can you not see why most developers think this way?

 

[Majmun]

The problem is that 16-35 male gamers aren't buying the Wii but the 360 and PS3, and that's what makes COD4 and Assassins Creed sell. Hence these games will remain on the 360 and PS3.

I know it's anecdotal but the only people that buy a Wii where I work are : 1) kids up till 14 or so who don't have the cash for 360/PS3 2) Nintendo fans 3) extreme casuals interested in Wii Sports

And that last point is also a big reason for 3rd party devs to ignore the Wii.

A lot of people buy the Wii just for Wii Sports/Play. They don't really plan to buy other games.

And yeah, Portal would be pretty awesome on the Wii. I agree that Wii fps controls CAN be pretty solid. Mario Galaxy waggle felt pretty gimmicky though.

 

[Petrae]

Do you remember Itagaki's trollish interview about the PSP, where he said he doesn't consider it a handheld? His rationale was that it has no distinguishing features that would make you want to put a traditional console game on it. Any game with normal controls that he could release on the PSP could be done better on PS2, or exponentially better on PS3/360. He didn't see the point. He saw the unique feature of the DS (touch screen) and the unique feature of the Wii (motion controls), and reasoned that he could design compelling gameplay around those unique features.

Can you not see why most developers think this way?

That's a fair point. The Wii's motion-sensing properties are the unique factor. I'm not saying to completely dispense with waggle, though. It has its places in certain games... I mentioned Wii Sports and Super Mario Galaxy already, plus light gun games are making a comeback via the Wiimote.

What I am saying, however, is that the waggle isn't a necessity-- at least in terms of the sheer amount that's used. Not to beat the Soulcalibur Legends example to death, but for the gross amount of flailing around that I did in that game, I could just as easily have played the game with the buttons on the Wiimote and Nunchuk.

I'll have to find that Itagaki interview, by the way... I don't remember it, but would like to read it at some point.

 

[AstroLad]

And yeah, Portal would be pretty awesome on the Wii. I agree that Wii fps controls CAN be pretty solid. Mario Galaxy waggle felt pretty gimmicky though.

I thought the waggle was fine--not amazing, but not intrusive--and the pointer stuff was great. Like others have said, not constantly beating you over the head with it but added to the game and gave you a taste of what can be done by clever developers.

 

[Jokeropia]

The problem is that 16-35 male gamers aren't buying the Wii

Actually, the average Wii owner is 29 years old. Core games sell much better on Wii than on PS3.

 

[Davidion]

Do you remember Itagaki's trollish interview about the PSP, where he said he doesn't consider it a handheld? His rationale was that it has no distinguishing features that would make you want to put a traditional console game on it. Any game with normal controls that he could release on the PSP could be done better on PS2, or exponentially better on PS3/360. He didn't see the point. He saw the unique feature of the DS (touch screen) and the unique feature of the Wii (motion controls), and reasoned that he could design compelling gameplay around those unique features.

Can you not see why most developers think this way?

Just because waggle is there and games can be built around it, doesn't mean it necessarily has to consistently forced upon every function. It especially doesn't mean no efforts need to be paid to the other aspect of the game such as art direction and at least a muster of an attempt at creating some kind of graphics horsepower.

Again, the devs ought to treat the ability as an additional means of control in the correct situations and not something that has to be injected into the game unnecessarily.

 

[wsippel]

Do you remember Itagaki's trollish interview about the PSP, where he said he doesn't consider it a handheld? His rationale was that it has no distinguishing features that would make you want to put a traditional console game on it. Any game with normal controls that he could release on the PSP could be done better on PS2, or exponentially better on PS3/360. He didn't see the point. He saw the unique feature of the DS (touch screen) and the unique feature of the Wii (motion controls), and reasoned that he could design compelling gameplay around those unique features.

Can you not see why most developers think this way?

That doesn't mean they have to overdo it. It's also really sad that many games rely on mindless waggle to achieve stuff also possible with button presses. The pointer is the much more interesting, yet underutilized feature in my opinion.

 

[KevinCow]

The problem is that 16-35 male gamers aren't buying the Wii but the 360 and PS3

So I'm either not the age I think I am, a female, or not a gamer.

Whichever way, MY ENTIRE LIFE HAS BEEN A LIE! ;_;

 

[thefro]

The bigger question is why haven't US third party developers tried a major game or two?

The Japanese support is going to be there solidly.

 

[Onemic]

Like most sales charts and CEO's have said, third parties generally haven't done so well on the wii. It's a first party machine.

 

[jarrod]

The bigger question is why haven't US third party developers tried a major game or two?

The Japanese support is going to be there solidly.

Probably because western developers tend to gravitate towards multiplatform R&D anyway... Wii might present a tougher choice for most then.

PS2 was really the best of both worlds, but with this gen I think you'll see the west mostly fixate on PC/360/PS3 and the east focus on Wii, with some degree of notable crossover of course.

 

[wsippel]

Like most sales charts and CEO's have said, third parties generally haven't done so well on the wii. It's a first party machine.

The best selling games on Xbox360 and PS3 are usually 1st party as well. Wii already has several 3rd party million sellers already, though - Red Steel for example sold comparable to GRAW. If 3rd parties really try, the games sell pretty well.

 

[FightyF]

First I'm going to define "major 3rd party support" in the following fashion:

The Wii currently gets support from a large number of 3rd parties, but do not get the same quantity of games as the 360/PS3. Ie. Capcom releases more 360 games than Wii games.

I think it's pretty obvious, 3rd parties don't want to release a boatload of Wii games because they don't know what Wii gamers want.

Secondly, if Wii gamers want casual games, this is something these large 3rd parties aren't accustomed to making.

And thus Wii development is a risk. You either make a game that no one wants, or attempt to make a casual game, something that isn't in your company's strengths.

Any developer can make a game that makes use of "waggle". That isn't the issue. The issue is whether they are making a game the userbase wants to buy/play.

 

[Onemic]

The best selling games on Xbox360 and PS3 are usually 1st party as well. Wii already has several 3rd party million sellers already, though - Red Steel for example sold comparable to GRAW. If 3rd parties really try, the games sell pretty well.

I'm not saying that no 3rd party wii games sell, but in comparison to the 360 or the ps3, 3rd party games on those platforms in general do MUCH better than on the wii. It's simply less risky to make a 3rd party game on those two platforms.

 

[vanguardian1]

I'm not saying that no 3rd party wii games sell, but in comparison to the 360 or the ps3, 3rd party games on those platforms in general do MUCH better than on the wii. It's simply less risky to make a 3rd party platform on those two platforms.

It'd be nice for a few of them to actually try. -_-

 

[Ikael]

When they have tried to offer what they usually do, they have just tackled waggle into their traditional games or shovelware. When they have tried to make a proper use of the wiimote, they have tried to copy Nintendo's style of games in aesthethics (Zack and Wiki), genre and demographics (Dewy's adventure), instead of trying to have their own style and demographics while trying to implement a proper use of the wiimote.

The only games that I think that have "got it" were Red steel, No More heroes, Resident Evil 4 and Dragon Quest Swords. Two are a sucess (Resident Evil 4 wii edition, Red steel), another one a moderate sucess (dragon quest swords), and the other is too early to tell since it hasn't been released in Europe nor USA. I expect great things from Fatal Frame IV too, both in terms of gameplay and sales.

 

[Jokeropia]

Ie. Capcom releases more 360 games than Wii games.

Capcom releases in 2007 (not counting VC/XBLA/PSN):

Wii:
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles
We Love Golf!

360:
-

PS3:
-

I'm not saying that no 3rd party wii games sell, but in comparison to the 360 or the ps3, 3rd party games on those platforms in general do MUCH better than on the wii. It's simply less risky to make a 3rd party platform on those two platforms.

Actually, third parties sell MUCH better on Wii than on PS3.

 

[vanguardian1]

Personally I'm praying for a Mega Man Prime for Wii, I'd gladly shell out $50 for it.

 

[FightyF]

Capcom releases in 2007 (not counting VC/XBLA/PSN):

Wii:
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles
We Love Golf!

360:
-

PS3:
-

I stand corrected.

Then why are people crying foul?

 

[FF_VIII]

I stand corrected.

Then why are people crying foul?

Because they want GTA and COD4!








But seriously, I don't know.

 

[jarrod]

Capcom releases in 2007 (not counting VC/XBLA/PSN):

Listmaster to the rescue!

Wii:
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles (cavia)
Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes
We Love Golf! (Camelot Software Planning)

360:
Lost Planet: Extreme Condition

PS3:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Ah. Core games and Wii? Everytime I pop into a store to get something, there's always a few people asking for realistic Racing games on the Wii, or a Third person shooter.

Only to be denied because they don't exist.

 

[vanguardian1]

Listmaster to the rescue!

Wii:
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles (cavia)
Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes
We Love Golf! (Camelot Software Planning)

360:
Lost Planet: Extreme Condition

PS3:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

what about that Dead Rising game?

 

[Zerodoppler]

I stand corrected.

Then why are people crying foul?

Capcom is the only company that has released any decent games for the Wii so far, but I'd never count any of those games as major support. In fact, I doubt that any of those games would've been even a blip on any gamers radar if they had been released for the PS3/360 instead. Ok, RE4 might have been if they remade the graphics, added online play and sold it for $10 on Live/PSN. For Wii it's the number one third party title for core gamers.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

I expect great things from Fatal Frame IV too, both in terms of gameplay and sales.

Gameplay, maybe. Sales? In regards to itself, or in general? I don't recall Fatal Frame being that big.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I stand corrected.

Then why are people crying foul?

Probably because they see games like this for other systems:

Resident Evil 5
DMC 4
Bionic Commando
SFIV
Dark Void
Lost Planet
Dead Rising

...and think that what the Wii has seen released so far - a port of a game already playable through BC, a decent shooter that heavily recycled existing games, and two solid second-string games - doesn't really match up.

IMO, though, what Wii owners have had from Capcom so far has been pretty good, esp. compared to other third-parties. With Monster Hunter 3 on the horizon - easily the equal of something like Bionic Commando or Dark Void in terms of investment and profile, I would have thought - and hopefully some more announcements to come, I don't see a problem.

 

[nightside]

third parties haven't seen the same level of success on wii as they have on 360 and in some cases ps3. COD4 and creed for example, will likely break 5-6 million in their lifetime when combining the platforms they release on, but trying to make a game compatible with the wii and then getting sales like zack and wiki and the like, its probably a bit risky.

Not to say all third party titles fail on wii, sonic did well as did RE and such, but it seems like a case of big investment for big payoff (RE5 for ps3/360/pc) or small investment for small payoff (RE:UC)

Still I see big marketing for titles like COD4 or AC, but little to no marketing at all for Z&W or WLG...you can't expect people (expecially wii userbase) to buy your game if you don't market it at all.

On 360 it's pretty different, most of the userbase KNOW what's coming out and WHEN it's coming out, and usually they already know what to buy thanks to demos, still ubi spent millions and millions to advertise Assassin's Creed....on Wii you don't have demos and don't have a well informed userbase, you GOT to do some serious marketing if you wanna see some sweet money.

 

[Onemic]

-

PS3:
-
Actually, third parties sell MUCH better on Wii than on PS3.

Can you please provide some proof of this? The only 3rd party companies I know that have sold more on wii than either the PS3 or 360 was ubisoft. And I believe it was only raving rabbids.(I believe boogie by EA, although crappy also sold well) The rest of their games(splinter cell, brothers in arms, RB6, etc.) have all done poorly on that platform.

 

[Saoh]

Like most sales charts and CEO's have said, third parties generally haven't done so well on the wii. It's a first party machine.

i dunno. i think RE4 and Guitar Hero 3 make a stand.

i think it depends more on the quality/popularity of the game/franchise.

 

[nightside]

Can you please provide some proof of this? The only 3rd party companies I know that have sold more on wii than either the PS3 or 360 was ubisoft. And I believe it was only raving rabbids.(I believe boogie by EA, although crappy also sold well) The rest of their games(splinter cell, brothers in arms, RB6, etc.) have all done poorly on that platform.

ubi got 2 million sellers (RS and RRR), sega made pretty decent numbers with sonic (and S&M will be pretty big), Capcom got great numbers from RE4wii, RE:UC is doing pretty well (not Z&W or WLG), GHIII wii made definetely better than ps3 version, the only games (on both platforms) that I recall doing better on ps3 are from EA (madden, fifa and NFShit that is, for some unnkown reasons, pretty big in europe). Splinter Cell on Wii is pure shit..why should anyone buy that?

i dunno. i think RE4 and Guitar Hero 3 make a stand.

i think it depends more on the quality/popularity of the game/franchise.

Indeed

I guess it's kind of backwards that Nintendo promoted the idea of next-gen shooter gameplay but not allowing next-gen visuals/AI/physics. But I don't see how taking an older engine and doing something really cool with it could hurt.

But overall I agree with the quoted.

I'd like some Quake love on wii....

 

[MisterHero]

Many developers suck and lack imagination. If you can't create a great game on Wii, you can't create a great game on any platform.

I guess it's kind of backwards that Nintendo promoted the idea of next-gen shooter gameplay but not allowing next-gen visuals/AI/physics. But I don't see how taking an older engine and doing something really cool with it could hurt.

But overall I agree with the quoted.

i dunno. i think RE4 and Guitar Hero 3 make a stand.

i think it depends more on the quality/popularity of the game/franchise.

You would think that companies could bring over more franchise games.

How much do you think Street Fighter Anniversary would sell at $20-30?

Grand Theft Auto III Trilogy for $30-40?

Bringing these games over could raise company interest among the fans to buy their newer IPs, like Okami, Table Tennis, Zack & Wiki? I mean, this whole debate is about how more support = more sales, isn't it?

Sure they're last-gen games but they're still better than next-gen shovelware.

 

[Jammy]

Can you please provide some proof of this? The only 3rd party companies I know that have sold more on wii than either the PS3 or 360 was ubisoft. And I believe it was only raving rabbids.(I believe boogie by EA, although crappy also sold well) The rest of their games(splinter cell, brothers in arms, RB6, etc.) have all done poorly on that platform.

Actually, pretty much every multi-platform game between the Wii and PS3 sells better on Wii (Call of Duty 3, Marvel: UA, Lego Star Wars, Guitar Hero III, Harry Potter, The Bigs, etc. to name a few). Outside of this year's version of Madden and the first Need For Speed "next-gen" game - which is all we have numbers for - PS3 third parties haven't sold well outside of Assasin's Creed and CoD4. Then again... there weren't Wii versions of those games to compare sales.

In terms of third party developers actually lauding their sales on Wii, you'll see Capcom with both of their RE games, Sega with Sonic, Monkey Ball, and especially their Olympics game, Ubi-Soft with their million sellers in Rayman: RR and Red Steel, Activision with their Guitar Hero III, etc.

Good third party PS3 exclusive (at the time) support has pretty much tanked. VF5 and Ninja Gaiden Sigma especially fit this... so well that there's an enhanced 360 version now of the former, and a true 360 sequel coming out for the latter.


EDIT: Funnily enough, PS3's only million sellers (Resistance and Motorstorm) are *gasp* first party...

 

[wsippel]

Can you please provide some proof of this? The only 3rd party companies I know that have sold more on wii than either the PS3 or 360 was ubisoft. And I believe it was only raving rabbids.(I believe boogie by EA, although crappy also sold well) The rest of their games(splinter cell, brothers in arms, RB6, etc.) have all done poorly on that platform.

Red Steel sold over a million units as well, Ubisoft has two million sellers on Wii. Capcom has one (re4), maybe two in a few months (re:uc). GHIII should be well over a million now, so Activision has one, too. I think M&S hit a million as well, and Sonic was quite successful as well if I remember correctly, so I don't see Sega complaining, either.

 

[maladroid]

I don't know about major support, but I'm looking forward to these third-party efforts.

 

[nightside]

EDIT: Funnily enough, PS3's only million sellers (Resistance and Motorstorm) are *gasp* first party...

And launch games...the other AAA first party titles bombed, which is pretty sad...

 

[Kosma]

AC and COD4 sold over a million on PS3 too.

Even if they didn't it doesn't matter, because you can add up PS3 sales to 360 ones.

 

[Jammy]

AC and COD4 sold over a million on PS3 too.

Even if they didn't it doesn't matter, because you can add up PS3 sales to 360 ones.

You mean when comparing userbases, right?

 

[EvilMario]

One reason might be third parties are coming around that shovel wear just isn't cutting it these days. And who develops for quality > cash grab these days? OH TEH NOS
---
EM

 

[Onemic]

Red Steel sold over a million units as well, Ubisoft has two million sellers on Wii. Capcom has one (re4), maybe two in a few months (re:uc). GHIII should be well over a million now, so Activision has one, too. I think M&S hit a million as well, and Sonic was quite successful as well if I remember correctly, so I don't see Sega complaining, either.

I completely forgot about RE4 and red steel. Thanks for bringing those up. I think the problem is the devs having to pretty much make different or at least different games on the wii, than on the ps3/360 considering the fact that the wii has a completely different control scheme and is years behind in terms of tech. No publisher would really want to put more resources into making a different game for the wii when doing a multiplat for the ps3/360. I think that's why you see many multiplatform releases on the wii sucking so badly.(That is one that require a lot of tech)

So I guess I should refine my argument. It's not exclusive 3rd party titles, but rather 3rd party multiplatform titles that are sucking badly on the wii. This problems stops publishers from putting any effort at all into making a wii exclusive, especially with the marketing and branding Nintendo has been doing with the system, pretty much scaring away all publishers who want to make non-family oriented games.

BTW yeah you guys are right about the wii and PS3 thing.

 

[wsippel]

I completely forgot about RE4 and red steel. Thanks for bringing those up. I think the problem is the devs having to pretty much make different or at least different games on the wii, than on the ps3/360 considering the fact that the wii has a completly different control scheme and is years behind in terms of tech. No publisher would really want to put more resources into making a different game for the wii when doing a multiplat for the ps3/360. I think that's why you see many multiplatform releases on the wii sucking so badly.(That is one that require a lot of tech)

So I guess I should refine my argument. It's not exclusive 3rd party titles, but rather 3rd party multiplatform titles that are sucking badly on the wii. This problems stops publishers from putting any effort at all into making a wii exclusive, especially with the marketing and branding Nintendo has been doing with the system, pretty much scaring away all publishers who want to make non-family oriented games.

Even if you don't sell as many copies of an exclusive Wii game compared to a multiplatform PCPS360 game, the budget is much lower. A team like, say, the Stranglehold team, could have made two or three good Wii games with the same time and budget. It would've been less risky. Releasing a single game on multiple platforms isn't really the right way to minimize the risk. If a game bombs, it bombs. It just bombs on more platforms. So I guess "3rd parties are stupid" is the only valid answer after all...

 

[jarrod]

what about that Dead Rising game?

It came out in 2006.

 

[grenadeguru]

The thing is, I don't even want the "major third party support" that most people think of when they think of that phrase. I want things like Zack and Wiki. Even that Monster Lab game looks interesting.

I hoped that the Wii would be the place for experimental, obscure games that are low budget because of their nature.

I agree completely. I would love to see Nintendo really embrace smaller and Indy developers with Wiiware as well.

 

[Threi]

I know it's anecdotal but the only people that buy a Wii where I work are : 1) kids up till 14 or so who don't have the cash for 360/PS3 2) Nintendo fans 3) extreme casuals interested in Wii Sports

Although this is probably true, i wouldn't use it as a concrete means of argument as me and a lot of people i know who have a Wii are none of those.

oh and JESUS CHRIST this thread has like 1000000000021329 points :lol

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Here are a couple stock responses:

"Nobody bought the shovelware, so they're not going to increase support."

"Everybody bought the shovelware, so they're going to make more shovelware."

Plus, not every dev wants to make a waggle game.

Intelligent Systems, for instance.

 

[kay]

- publishers want to make multiplatform games when budgets are high
- when given the choice, few want the Wii version of multiplatform games
- publishers cry
- low budget exclusives ensue
- threads get started about it

 

[speedpop]

I don't know about major support, but I'm looking forward to these third-party efforts.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg32/ilikecookiesandlove/1468_0003.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg32/ilikecookiesandlove/project0_1190376275.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg32/ilikecookiesandlove/no_more_heroes_travis_touchdown_vs_.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg32/ilikecookiesandlove/h-104_77580_070907oboro07jpg.jpg

About sums it up for me as well. I don't give a shit about western developed software that isn't available on a PC - hence the still continued coin tossing about whether I grab a 360 or PS3 down the track.

Most of my gaming is done on handhelds anyway. The more titles announced for either DS or PSP, the better.