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No major third party support in the Wii horizon, why?
- Thread starter fresquito
- Start date
Minotauro said:
Well they're both getting/have DS releases...
Fun fact. I play my Wii with mono sound on a 13" CRT, do I care?
No. I played COD4 on shitty computers with settings at the absolute bottom and still loved it, I don't care. Gameplay far outstrips graphics for me and CoD4 with well done Wiimote control would be amazing.
Starchasing
Member
Minotauro said:
they are very well designed games so a graphic downgrade would only matter to graphic whores
Starchasing said:
It's not just the graphics though.
Off the top of my head, here are the chief issues with Wii versions of COD4 and AC:
COD4:
- Friend codes and lack of headset/mic. The most important parts (the depth and ease at which it does online) of COD4 would be far inferior on Wii.
- Translating the controls. A lot of people here claim that Wiimote pointer controls are superior to dual analog. While I actually disagree, you still have the issue of mapping the buttons. I mean shit, at most, the Wii has four action buttons at any given time.
- Immersiveness. I guess this is somewhat related to graphics but the immersiveness is part-and-parcel of the COD experience. And, whether you like it or not, a lot of this has to do with how well a console can handle visuals and sound.
AC:
- Scope. Some of the best parts of AC are climbing to the top of a city, looking off into the distance, and knowing you can go anywhere you want. Or, how about assassinating someone and then having to cut through crowds of on-lookers whilst being pursued by a slew of guards? Would it be nearly as frantic and exciting with 70% less AI characters?
- Translating the controls. Again, the Wii simply doesn't have enough buttons to allow for even a game with as streamlined a set of control mechanics as AC has.
On a side note, you guys talk about graphics as if they have absolutely nothing to do with gameplay. I think this is totally ridiculous. All the elements of a game's design contribute to the overall gameplay experience. I mean, sure, you could likely port both of the aforementioned games to Wii but wouldn't both lose a significant amount in the translation?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Xeke said:
You can't honestly believe this can you?
COD4 and Assassin's Creed both outsold Super Mario Galaxy in North America and PAL territories, thanks largely in part to the PS3 version. People tout WW sales of RE 4 as if they're this huge beacon of hope, but AC PS3 probably outsold that in two weeks, at double the MSRP.
Of course, you completely ignored my point by pointing out Guitar Hero, since COD4 and AC cannot be done on Wii as they exist. You could dumb down the graphics all you want, but at a certain point the gameplay would suffer because there's just too much going on. The interactive geometry in AC is beyond the scope of the Wii.
And I find it odd (or convenient, whatever) that people can argue that:
- Madden and FIFA sold poorly on Wii (in spite of the userbase) because it was poorly done compared to its HD counterparts
- Guitar Hero 3 sold well on Wii (in spite of being poorly done compared to its HD counterparts) because of the userbase
There are certain franchises and concepts that will do better on the PC/360/PS3 side because of the nature of who these consoles attract - people who want HD visuals, surround sound, online play. Likewise, there are concepts and franchises that are predisposed to do better on Wii because of the nature of whom the console has attracted - you couldn't sell a Mario & Sonic, Rayman Raving Rabbids, or even a DQ Swords on PS3/360.
I don't think 3rd parties will really have anything to worry about by the end of this gen. All 3 consoles have shown that they can support industry growth to some extent, and as the PS3/360 get cheaper, their sales have and will continue to increase, even if they don't approach what Nintendo is accomplishing.
As for people who openly refuse to buy an HD console despite the overwhelming number of 'hardcore' games being angled their way - can they really call themselves a fan of those games?
You've got people in this very thread saying shit like "Nintendo fans want UbiSoft support, but we don't want shitty games like Splinter Cell". Splinter Cell is UbiSoft's big support. Game designers should not have to bend over backwards trying to find something that will 'connect' with a niche audience. They're making the best games that their time and money will allow, take it or leave it.
Minotauro said:
I enjoyed CoD4 on a shitty PC with all the settings on low, I can't imagine the Wii version would look any worse. YOU DON'T NEED FRIEND CODES FOR WII ONLINE. I didn't use a headset on the PC and I didn't care. MoH has proven that the genre can be excellent on the Wii and saying that there are 4 action buttons at anytime is ridiculous. A, B, C, Z and all the directions on the d-pad.
Most importantly...wait for it...it would be FUN.
Yeah I'm a fan of them and I'd buy them if they were on the system I have but I'm not a big enough fan of games or any genre to spend silly amounts of money to play them. Games are not high enough on my priority list to spend more than $250 on a system.
What an achievement. It outsold an old as shit game on its 4th release in the middle of the summer and probably barely.
The thing is derailing...Minotauro said:
Anyway. Of course doing the same exact game would be impossible. However, I thought people had fun playing Halo 2. And by this I mean that you can create a compelling game on the Wii without the HD graphics. One thing that amazes me about graphic whores is how fast they forget they were playing this "shivering" games just two years ago.
Talk only about the 360 version. The PS3 version is killed by lag.Sho_Nuff82 said:
fresquito said:
"Gaming noob"? Jesus, get a life.
And, for the record, I've been playing games regularly since the NES days. While I can certainly still have fun with older games (and love how a lot of them are finding a second home on the online stores), I also acknowledge that gaming has come a long way since then and has become far more sophisticated. And, although I don't begrudge people having fun with Wii, there's a certain part of me that resent Nintendo for drawing a line in the technological sand because they knew it wouldn't have an ounce of impact on their potential revenue.
Minotauro said:
then why, in your post, did you complain about the Wii not being able to do things that even the PS2 can do? They're not building quantum mechanics models here, they're building video games. You build towards the platform's strengths. 360 and PS3 allow much higher graphical potential, and theoretically more potential for physics and AI (how important AI and physics are overall is another discussion, but let's just say I'm not too keen on the argument). There's obviously things that can be done to innovate in that framework, and we've seen it already. There's also a framework for the Wii that allows innovation, and that's its controller. And yes, we HAVE seen innovations in that front, do not pretend they don't exist. Whether they are actually in good games is another story, but not quite related. We know the graphics are slightly better than next-gen, but hey, I don't recall people complaining about not being able to make deep, engaging, epic games on the PS2/Xbox/GC. In fact, I recall seeing quite a lot of those.
The reason Nintendo sacrificed the power was because they felt that it was 'good enough.' Now whether that is completely true is arguable, and as a programmer I'm not entirely happy with it, but blanket statements like "but I really think what's driving this is the Wii's inability to offer developers the tools to accomplish their vision" make me laugh. I think one of the biggest problems with game developers today is that they let the platform dictate the design, rather than the other way around. They try to focus on 'pushing' their games to the next level rather than focusing on making sure their game is any good in the first place. This, I also believe, is the primary reasoning behind why devs keep shoehorning unnecessary waggle controls into game designs that don't make proper use of them.
But anyway, there's nothing wrong with any of the 3 consoles as far as game design potential goes, so that argument needs to die already.
I think people are just not ready for the tide about to come. I'm thinking, there'll be a lot of big announcements for Wii over this year. Admittedly, I thought that wave would come at E3 or TGS last year... but, I'm assuming there's still a lot of budget that has been invested in 360/PS3 and those still have to run their course before full turn over.
I don't think 360/PS3 will ever be irrelevant, thanks to the fact that you can easily port games between them and PC, but I think the third party shift will make itself eminently clear by the end of the year.
And by that I mean, Carnival Games 2, 3, Red Steel 2, Samurai PARTY (w/ sword slashing mini-games), Dogz vs. Hamsterz: The Reckoning. I expect they should all sell extremely well.
Edit: LOLOLOLOL @ Call of Duty 4 Wii
I don't think 360/PS3 will ever be irrelevant, thanks to the fact that you can easily port games between them and PC, but I think the third party shift will make itself eminently clear by the end of the year.
And by that I mean, Carnival Games 2, 3, Red Steel 2, Samurai PARTY (w/ sword slashing mini-games), Dogz vs. Hamsterz: The Reckoning. I expect they should all sell extremely well.
Edit: LOLOLOLOL @ Call of Duty 4 Wii
Xeke said:
COD4 on a shitty PC (as you pointed out
) would still be superior to a Wii version. It's not just the graphics. It's the size of the levels, the amount of stuff that's going on screen, detail (although that comes into graphics, but the levels can't be empty), not to mention the controlls. Just look at the state of the DS version.Some third party games just can't be done on the Wii. (GTA, COD4, DMC)
Others like GH can.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Amir0x said:
For a moment I thought you were serious....
Oddly enough these titles were done on the PS2.FF_VIII said:COD4 on a shitty PC (as you pointed out
Some third party games just can't be done on the Wii. (GTA, COD4, DMC)
Others like GH can.
The failing logic you use is thinking we are asking for the same games. But no, we, at least I, are asking for similar games in scoop. Of course GTAIV can't be ported to the Wii and just run with it. But you can do a game that looks better than San Andreas with great The Godfather-like controls. And I'm betting Wii owners would be happy with it.
Xeke said:
Honestly...the directions on the d-pad? In a fast-paced shooter? Do you seriously believe this or are you just straining to make your argument?
And, friend codes/headsets or no, you cannot argue that the online play on Wii would be any way comparable to the online play on the other two consoles.
I really can't believe that people are arguing that COD4 and AC would make satisfactory translations to the WII. In addition to be totally absurd, it's pointless.
Due to difference in hardware, certain experiences are simply better-suited to the 360 and PS3. Period.
FF_VIII said:COD4 on a shitty PC (as you pointed out
Some third party games just can't be done on the Wii. (GTA, COD4, DMC)
Others like GH can.
The size of the levels? Whats going on? The most I ever saw going on in any MP map was rain and a helicopter.
The CoD4 I was playing on those PC's hardly looked better than CoD2. But maybe I'm missing something all together.
But DS versions of both games are perfectly acceptable right?
Friend codes are optional (Medal of Honor doesn't use them), headset/mic doesn't add much IMO but is also possible on Wii.Minotauro said:
Why?Minotauro said:
A, B, C, Z, down, up, left, right (d-pad) are quickly accessible at all times, +, -, 1 and 2 can be included for things like map or status screen. Wii pointer also undeniably allows for quicker/more accurate aiming than an analog stick.Minotauro said:
Have you held a Wiimote? The d-pad is right next your thumb; any direction can be pressed instantaneously.Minotauro said:
And adding Godfather-like controls to the GTA series would evolve it in a way I'd like to see. For once shooting in a GTA wouldn't feel akward if you're not playing the PC version of it.FF_VIII said:
Isn't this evolution too?
And from what I've seen I wouldn't say DMC has evolved very much in its fourth chapter. At least nothing that couldn't be done on the PS2 except graphic detail.
vanguardian1
poor, homeless and tasteless
So what would happen if a developer made a CORE game (FPS/Action/Adventure) that simply could not be properly done on a PS3/360/PC?
I'll admit to being bored lately (been sick a lot and playing DS) and have been thinking about this myself, I'm wondering if I should draw out some of my ideas. It's not like I can sell my game/control idea directly to developers, but maybe someone here would take notice.
I'll admit to being bored lately (been sick a lot and playing DS) and have been thinking about this myself, I'm wondering if I should draw out some of my ideas. It's not like I can sell my game/control idea directly to developers, but maybe someone here would take notice.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Yeah, anything is possible on the Wii, but many games in their current form would have to be dumbed down. Most games were made to fit over 200MB of character and environment data into RAM at one time, at least. Last I heard, GTAIV was already struggling with that as it is (On PS3 at least).fresquito said:
However, these games are runnable on the Wii no problem, albeit the city would probably either need to be loaded in sections (Like Doom 3 Xbox... or Kingdom Under Fire Circle of Doom on the 360 to use an example I'm going through right now) or go back to a last-gen level of interactivity.
Then the developer is faced with another problem: They're putting enough resources into porting a game for one platform that they could use to make another game that would fit the userbase better. Why bother porting GTAIV if Carnival Games and Table Tennis would achieve just as much if not more profit?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
jman2050 said:
But FPS being more more important lately on the online multiplayer part with voice chat and nice online service,the advantage in on PS3/X360 field...
Yes, I too can go there
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
Some of you need to have patience.
Remember that until November 2006, everyone expected the Wii to be a joke and PS3 would own all. In 2008, the situation is entirely different. Developers have tens of millions of assets tied up in PS3 and 360 projects. Once these come out or are near release, we'll be seeing more Wii announcements. Of course, it should be understood that the Wii is essentially an Xbox with waggle. Developers may very well prefer the PS3, 360, and PC because it offers them more flexibility to design what they want.
Third party games on Wii don't sell well because most of them are half assed efforts. The third party effort on Wii in 2007 was no less than pathetic. Third parties can't expect to make massive sales with PS2 upgrades and shovelware.
Remember that until November 2006, everyone expected the Wii to be a joke and PS3 would own all. In 2008, the situation is entirely different. Developers have tens of millions of assets tied up in PS3 and 360 projects. Once these come out or are near release, we'll be seeing more Wii announcements. Of course, it should be understood that the Wii is essentially an Xbox with waggle. Developers may very well prefer the PS3, 360, and PC because it offers them more flexibility to design what they want.
Third party games on Wii don't sell well because most of them are half assed efforts. The third party effort on Wii in 2007 was no less than pathetic. Third parties can't expect to make massive sales with PS2 upgrades and shovelware.
Man I haven't seen so many fanboys on the defence for a while now, made me forget how pathetic people get.
First of all you may have played it on the lowest settings possible, but the core content is still there. The Wii can't handle all the enemies, all the explosions and action at once. you may be able to lower settings but for a Wii they would have to strip out way much more then the graphics. I would never want a game like that no matter what system it is for, if your going to start stripping out all the things that made it great the first time in order to put it into a lesser system... please don't waste your time.
Xeke said:
First of all you may have played it on the lowest settings possible, but the core content is still there. The Wii can't handle all the enemies, all the explosions and action at once. you may be able to lower settings but for a Wii they would have to strip out way much more then the graphics. I would never want a game like that no matter what system it is for, if your going to start stripping out all the things that made it great the first time in order to put it into a lesser system... please don't waste your time.
Why not creating a game from the ground up for the Wii instead of porting it? And I mean it. They created a GTA for the PS2, because it was the leading platform. They could've done it better with PC in mind. With Xbox in mind, but they did it to suit PS2 needs. And it was the way to go for almost every developer. And it was this way because PS2 was king.The Abominable Snowman said:
It might sound odd now, but Wii shouldn't be in the position of being an afterthought to developers. And this is where the question of this topic arises.
I think one of the things Wii needs badly is to form a "community" around the system - one of the biggest things Nintendo has failed to capitalize on is the very real pre-release buzz that surrounds videogames when they're pushed via demos or videos or whatever. On 360, there's demos for so many games... and when a person sees all his friends has a certain game, that's far more incentive to go out and buy it so he/she can join the fun.
This is why Nintendo needs a harddrive, not just for VC games but so they can begin to build the foundation of a meaningful online community that can help drive sales. If they're just waiting on the casuals to do that, good luck... they'll buy garbage like Wii Fit and Wii Sports, but they're never going to branch out to legitimate games without someone reaching out and grabbing them and showing them.
This is why Nintendo needs a harddrive, not just for VC games but so they can begin to build the foundation of a meaningful online community that can help drive sales. If they're just waiting on the casuals to do that, good luck... they'll buy garbage like Wii Fit and Wii Sports, but they're never going to branch out to legitimate games without someone reaching out and grabbing them and showing them.
natureman3
Banned
why ?
Because wii is underpowered and limits severely the creativity of game designer, the fun from dev to do some amazing tech stuff, the talent of artists that always must go to the very stylised genre on wii. But it's fantastic for proof of concept games thus many minigames.
Because wii is underpowered and limits severely the creativity of game designer, the fun from dev to do some amazing tech stuff, the talent of artists that always must go to the very stylised genre on wii. But it's fantastic for proof of concept games thus many minigames.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Then the quality of the 360/PS3 version would suffer. Badly.fresquito said:
The PS2 didn't have a generational gap between the Xbox.
Yeah, like CoD4 is any more creative than Zack & Wiki. It might be the better game, but don't mess with creativity.natureman3 said:
THis is something I agree with. For a console where the tactile factor is so important, sure Nintendo isn't doing anything to let players try games.Amir0x said:
I think some companies have supported the Wii pretty well. Capcom, for instance, moved the Monster Hunter franchise to it. They also had an exclusive
Compare that to how they have treated say, the PSP, where MHF2 sold something like 1.5 million copies in Japan alone last year (according to www.psphyper.com). You'd think with those sales, Capcom would put more on the PSP, but instead they seem to be focusing on the Wii and 360. They even ported a former PSP exclusive (Harvey Birdman) to the Wii, and are now treating it (in terms of advertising) as a Wii title first.
EA came out with MySims, Playground and Boogie. Admittedly casual titles, but still it's an exclusive, something they rarely do (though later ported to the PS2, I think).
I don't think you'll see big budget games, but that's because I don't think the userbase is big enough in the US. For something like the GTA games, they had to sell millions, not just one million, to make money.
Compare that to how they have treated say, the PSP, where MHF2 sold something like 1.5 million copies in Japan alone last year (according to www.psphyper.com). You'd think with those sales, Capcom would put more on the PSP, but instead they seem to be focusing on the Wii and 360. They even ported a former PSP exclusive (Harvey Birdman) to the Wii, and are now treating it (in terms of advertising) as a Wii title first.
EA came out with MySims, Playground and Boogie. Admittedly casual titles, but still it's an exclusive, something they rarely do (though later ported to the PS2, I think).
I don't think you'll see big budget games, but that's because I don't think the userbase is big enough in the US. For something like the GTA games, they had to sell millions, not just one million, to make money.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Amir0x said:
Nintendo is the worst student of the class in that assignature....
I don't expect those things to happen before Wii 2.
Damn,just we are seeing the first online cooperative games in Wii,and the first baby steps on downloadable content (videos,DS demos,...)
jman2050 said:
I think the point is: "Some people don't want to accept the reality of Wii's hilariously underpowered hardware."
Trying to claim we're not in a position to make completely educated conclusions based on this fact (specifically about the possibility of bringing games like Call of Duty 4 to Wii in any reasonable form) is not actually an argument.
Xeke said:
Hey, it could look like MoH Wii. Which looks like a Gamecube game with waggle slapped over it. And would play nothing like Call of Duty 4. Hey, the waggle could be fun for you - I'm sure getting these hollow novelties are first and foremost above actually translating the amazing gameplay and graphics for some people - but it wouldn't be Call of Duty 4.
Hell, they could decide to still release Call of Duty 4 and whatever it fucking was, it wouldn't be Call of Duty 4.
Amir0x said:
Is it really anymore ridiculous than bringing Half Life 2 and Farcry to the Xbox?
Or the awesome achievement that is PS3 Orange Box?
Of course it wont be the same game, but if Will Wright is going to port Spore to the Wii I don't see why CoD4 couldn't be done respectably.
If Wii had similiar specs to the other 2 systems then I guarantee that every high profile release would have a Wii version, bottom line.
Sadly, Nintendo has made it a lot harder for publishers to shift over to the Wii.
Sadly, Nintendo has made it a lot harder for publishers to shift over to the Wii.
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