hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
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No Sex Please, We're Japanese (BBC Documentary)
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Yellowflashdude
Member
The attention given is meaningless if the (western) media chooses to go the 'weird Japan' niche for the sake of clicks and views.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Sounds like a poor documentary, not something I normally expect from BBC. Where's Al-Jazeera Japan when we might actually need it?
This is a big damn problem for the country, and I'm not optimistic about them finding a solution, but shaming them by kicking a dead dog around (otaku) only makes things worse.
This is a big damn problem for the country, and I'm not optimistic about them finding a solution, but shaming them by kicking a dead dog around (otaku) only makes things worse.
It's like 5 minutes of an hour long doco :\
On top of that unless this particular documentary series has covered otaku culture before I think it's fair game for them to mention it as regular viewers may not have ever even heard of it before.
entremet
Member
Call girls don't count, bro.
I have hard time seeing how such small fringe group could have any statistically relevant part in population decrease. Because of this, it feels like it's brought up in order to point out how weird Japanese people are.
Blake'sGrave
Member
that presenter's hot as fuuuuck
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Is it real?
C'mon man, it's not actually a bad piece. Although I have yet to see the BBC documentary, the Vice one was entertaining but (intentionally) sensasionalized. It's fun to focus on otaku making virtual love to their waifus, but it's too easy to pick out a handful of sexual deviants and make an example out of them. It comes across as typical Othering; "look at how weird these people are!" This may well be true, but I bet you can find your share of interesting perversities in the Western world as well.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
I think this is one of the better pieces that looks at quite a few different aspects of the issue. Unfortunately the fascination with abomination aspect of entertainment's interaction with human nature often encourages even more classy pieces like this to look and linger a little too long on the funny side of otaku culture.
My god I would love to see a Frontline mini-series on this issue where they spend each episode just really dissecting a different aspect of the known issue with various expects offering supporting or opposing viewpoints. That would be a watch. The closest thing we would probably get to reading a dissertation on the subject (which I couldn't do to save my life).
Will only make things worse? How?
Red Liquorice
Member
Looks like a BBC3 type documentary, expect it.
ЯAW;88151605 said:
There's plenty in there that isn't statistically significant, the grandma cheerleaders for example. It's pretty clear this wasn't designed to be a heavy hitting documentary but it does have interesting insights such as the prison section. It's a shame she was a bitch after the otaku interview because that drew all the moths to the flame but I have a feeling the defense force would be up in arms anyway even if she was as respectful to them as she was the old ladies.
Pretty bad documentary. I like how otaku culture is being blamed for the birth rate crisis when they're just a really small sub culture. Too much of the "oh Japan is a really strange and whimsical place" western media likes to latch on too and not enough actual insight into the problems.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
This was a very good documentary that unveiled somethings about Japan I never knew about. As a kid, Japan in my eyes was always this fantasy land where everything is amazing and now watching this.. It makes me worry if I feel the same way I use to about it.
That part about the otaku really really got me. Dude has a wife but also sustaining a virtual gf and has a hard time choosing? That's absolutely crazy. I also noticed that even tho the point of the virtual girl is to live out fantasies they never had the opportunity to express in high school, it still seems that they want a relationship where the women's is still subjective. On top of that, the reporter made a good quote on men having to grow up. With having a city dedicated to it, I can see why the choice is something that men struggle with when it comes to women and the such.
Japanese people need to kill these age old traditions and at least modify it with the New age. They are declining because they are half ignorant and kind of racist. It's time to change that..
That part about the otaku really really got me. Dude has a wife but also sustaining a virtual gf and has a hard time choosing? That's absolutely crazy. I also noticed that even tho the point of the virtual girl is to live out fantasies they never had the opportunity to express in high school, it still seems that they want a relationship where the women's is still subjective. On top of that, the reporter made a good quote on men having to grow up. With having a city dedicated to it, I can see why the choice is something that men struggle with when it comes to women and the such.
Japanese people need to kill these age old traditions and at least modify it with the New age. They are declining because they are half ignorant and kind of racist. It's time to change that..
Trick question as Rinko is his waifu.
I'm just bored with articles and documentaries about Japan's population decline that are full of same tropes. They latch to issues that have no statistical relevance to subject they pretend to cover. It's bad reporting, is all I'm saying. With this subject we have been beating the death horse for some time now. Gender equality is of then mentioned briefly, but Otakus and other oddities get far more screen time in these types of reports.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
oh you
lmao her face is killing me!
Their heads aren't possibly sized correctly are they? I mean his head is photoshopped, right? Please tell me I'm not crazy.
sixteen-bit
Member
:lol
He'll be force to move on when Rinko gets into a Netorare situation.
Dabookerman
Member
It was an informative documentary, however the way the presenter went about things was incredibly awkward. Ok, you love babies and hate otakus, is the impression I get.
Basically saying "shouldn't you be getting married and getting kids" is such an arrogant thing to say. People shouldn't do any of that if they don't want to.
Basically saying "shouldn't you be getting married and getting kids" is such an arrogant thing to say. People shouldn't do any of that if they don't want to.
This cant be real, Can it?
i mean come on rink will be outdated with the next game
your wife . . .
wait on second thought i can see why this could be a hard decision
ЯAW;88153491 said:
Fair enough, I think anyone actually interested/invested in the issue would agree. I very quickly decided that the target demographic for the documentary was the casual audience and for light viewing I was pleasantly surprised. I won't pretend I follow the topic either, while I'm interested I only read/view what I happen to come across and don't look for it, you do paint a frustrating picture.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Just a little anecdote.
A friend of mine from near Shanghai is studying in Kyoto and had a few waitress jobs. She really said japanese, especially old, men are kinda perverted. She works mostly in family restaurants and even then in the evening when some of the old guys come in, they try to touch her ass and do obscene things.
Of course her coworkers help her out, but she said she never experienced such thing in China.
There is also a reason that there special trains for women.
Japanese society is kinda strange when it comes to this I think. On the one hand you have one of the nicest people, that care about the enviroment, try to please everyone and on the other hand you have really strange people and sexual fetishes.
ajim
Member
Well, the clubs I went to in Tokyo were mainly situated in and around Roppongi. The main ones like Jumanji and whatnot on the mainstrip I'd avoid - filled with a lot of pros, and westerners. Also too crowded.
Spent a bit of time at Feria (pretty sure it was called that) which was multi-leveled and filled with people who were up for a good time and having some fun. Not filled with westerners either, so you were able to stand out a bit more which was ok.
The language barrier wasn't really apparent, I found most girls (in the clubs at least) could speak enough English to communicate the basics, then the rest was alcohol, dancing and good old body language.
Then there were clubs like Ageha which were a bit more full on and the language barrier was a bit more apparent there, but not as bad as I thought it would be.
Good times, good people and good food.
Kyoto was a little different, not nearly as full on as Tokyo was and the clubs there
Overall, I found getting around Japan in general throughout the day a lot more difficult than meeting girls at clubs.
In other words click bait. Because a weird Japanese dude who spends time with his virtual girlfriend is a better headline than gender parity.
She thinks all Japanese men are otakus. It's like if a Japanese reporter went to Comic-Con and only interviewed otakus there about their sex lives.
JimmyRustler
Member
I don't get the focus on Japan regarding this topic either. This issue seems to be a big problem throughout the first world countries. And how could it not? IMO there is a huge stigma growing when it comes to raising a family and it seems to be getting worse every year. I blaime it on the huge amount of information you get on this topic over the internet.
Terrible documentary. Way to go and use a fringe minority of otaku culture to represent the entire Japanese nation. This piece is nothing more than blunt sensationalism, and just like so many other Western articles about 'quirky' Japan it only reaffirms the orientalist view of the Japanese nation while deliberately failing to look for the real cause of social problems.
I believe Becky Smith says it best in this article "Sex myths without substance: Mislabelling Japan" published by The Independent.
If the BBC truly wanted to go into Japan's birthrate and fertility problems, they should have looked at issues such as gender inequality at the workplace, delaying of marriage by Japanese youth (no marriage generally means no babies for young couples in Japan), and the rejection of the salaryman lifestyle and its economic impact on youth no longer able to provide for a family.
I believe Becky Smith says it best in this article "Sex myths without substance: Mislabelling Japan" published by The Independent.
If the BBC truly wanted to go into Japan's birthrate and fertility problems, they should have looked at issues such as gender inequality at the workplace, delaying of marriage by Japanese youth (no marriage generally means no babies for young couples in Japan), and the rejection of the salaryman lifestyle and its economic impact on youth no longer able to provide for a family.
90TilInfinity
Member
They barely did any research into that though. Obviously Japan has a very conservative stance on gender roles, and a reluctance to cater to the normalities of married women (e.g. pregnancy), so why not ask younger men, (24 & under, i.e. the future fathers & employers) whether they would be happy to be married to working women, etc. Aside from the "2% of babies born out of wedlock" stat, hearing that "70% of first time mothers drop out of the workforce" was probably the most shocking part of the documentary for me.
The working lady, who's probably in her mid-30s, said she's looking for an "open-minded" man. This open-mindedness, this social progression, is what's needed to improve the country's prospects, but the reporter didn't explore that at all. Instead we got 20 minutes on old people and a 15 minute stereotype reinforcement on Japanese men.
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
There isn't xenophobia as you might understand. A lot of Japanese are quite accepting of foreigners BUT they often treat them like they don't belong.
Immigration has already been used with Brazilian Japanese but again it was only short lived since they didn't accept them as real Japanese and deported them.
Stigma is sexual relation is lul worthy and not as big an issue, but traditional gender roles and expectations are huge problems that definitely need to be looked at.
As for Korea, it really is apples and oranges
Korea is very open to foreigners and immigration. Lots of foreign wives and general foreigners here doing jobs other than teaching.
I find if you take the time to learn the language and culture, you'll be accepted whereas this isn't really true in Japan.
While traditional gender roles and expectations can be restrictive there are lots of working moms and companies don't force a woman out because of it.
So Korea is in a better position but might start heading down the same road, so the posts saying this is more a global issue than only a Japanese one are right on.
This is a good point. Japan's problems with birthrate are also compounded by the relatively low rates of immigration. Other advanced nations have better immigration policy and are more culturally accepting of immigrant populations, which bolsters both their workforce and their birthrate. Many Western countries might be in the same crisis today except for their larger minority populations.
Red Liquorice
Member
maybe it is true after all that high standard of living does reduce chance of having more kids after all
I mean do you know anyone that has plan to have 5 kids ? All i hear from my friends is either 1 or 2.
Getting more than 2 kids is serious task and it essentially mean 0 time for parents which is rather hard pill to take for parents in XXI century where they can active search and do their hobbies.
Just 50 years ago family was #1 point in people lives. Now ton of people don't even plan to start family.
I don't see this as problem. People are not viruses they don't need to multiply for infinity.
I mean do you know anyone that has plan to have 5 kids ? All i hear from my friends is either 1 or 2.
Getting more than 2 kids is serious task and it essentially mean 0 time for parents which is rather hard pill to take for parents in XXI century where they can active search and do their hobbies.
Just 50 years ago family was #1 point in people lives. Now ton of people don't even plan to start family.
I don't see this as problem. People are not viruses they don't need to multiply for infinity.
matt360
Member
I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, but a LOT of Japanese people have humongous heads compared to their bodies. Of the several Japanese women I've dated, only my wife uses a pillow when she sleeps. The others didn't need one because their heads were too big.
Also, if you come to Japan are relatively well-proportioned, you will be constantly, and I do mean constantly, complimented on how "small your face is." It doesn't sound like a compliment, but it is.
ComputerMKII
Banned
humans generally have same head size regardless of race. Japanese people are statistically very short in comparison to rest of world.
Average height for japanese are : 1,70m man and 1.58 woman. In germany it is 1.83 and and 1,7m.
Not exactly stupid but it is when sex is regarded as pleasure and measurement of relationship. Or probably something like this:
lol at this. Here we have stigma that sexual relationships outside of marital status is very a disdained thing and yet we still have more than 2% birth rate every fuckin' year. This stigma have nothing to do since if it true then why was Japan have baby boom in 50's-70's? Surely they have this stigma back from that day right? If anything, it's economic and lifestyles that make marriage and child care become more of hassle than a responsibility, thus reducing birth rate in Japan.
Well, that's exactly the main thing that breed otaku (social) problem. I'm not saying that otaku is a way to represent fertility and birth rate problem in Japan, since they are minority of course. But is it really only otaku the only demographic in Japan that have less desire for sex? I don't think so, especially when we considering 'otaku' as the one who attend to animanga convention and marry their waifus, in public. There are probably many men who exposed to such influence and never showed it to public.
Economic and lifestyles is indeed the main problem. Both have created what among Japanese have called "herbivore men", man that need to be pushed around by someone to get to do something. You know this is a problem when newspaper comic tells how much "herbivore men" have become. But I wouldn't called otaku culture isn't responsible for this too since its over escapism to those herbivore men from marry a real women that they deemed as scary. Japan have masculine culture of course, I wouldn't deny that. But household financial is a housewife responsibility and they can make their husband eat dirt if they want to.
Moral Panic
Member
Hari Seldon
Member
Is this doc SFW in terms of tits and butts? That vice one was not haha.
This type of harrasment is definitely a problem. I know a couple of girls who had run-ins with gropers, which is obviously an awful thing to experience. Regardless, I still wonder how different harassment statistics are when compared to other countries. I am not being fascetious - I genuinely do not know.
Sexual fetishes exist in every country, and Japan definitely has its share of weird ones. I still think that focusing on these fringe cases (2d girlfriends, real dolls, what have you), does little to illuminate the larger problem.
If anything, as has been noted in this thread and the Kotaku piece, Japan's corporate structure has been too slow to adapt, making it unattractive to have children for women who want more out of life than a career as a housewife. Perhaps an oversimplification, but far closer to the truth.
And yeah, Japanese people are having sex like the rest of us. Most people aren't quite as socially decrepit as the people that star in these videos.
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