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Nomura Interview on FINAL FANTASY Versus XIII [Development Clarification]

I still believe Versus will launch December 2012 in Japan / Spring 2013 in EU/US.

I remember when everyone was saying the same for XIII, there were only very sparse articles and prerendered screens popping up in Famitsu every six months, and then suddenley, Square had a massive media blowout, and the game released (In Japan) 6 months later.
 
I'm guessing they have playable sections of all foundations, and design work for the full game, and they're waiting for the asset army to rotate off whatever they're doing (XIII-2?) to work on Versus.
 
Kagari said:
Okay, let's clarify things here.

I've looked at the actual wording for what Nomura says and the sentence in question literally means "preparing to enter mass/full production." What this means is that the game is getting ready to go into beta, or the final phase of development. Speaking with some people who actually know about game development, they also agree that this is the case AND the developers for Final Fantasy XIII said the exact same thing before they also went into beta.
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This makes more sense to me. I'm banking on fall 2012 for japan, hopefully worldwide but I doubt it.
 
As long as Shimomura's still doing a delicious 4-disc soundtrack with a music budget on par with XIII, I'm all for waiting a little longer.
 
Here's a sample development cycle from Square Enix.

AndriaSang said:
Without naming the title, Matsuzawa and Shiokawa gave a development timeline, which you can see in this slide at Famitsu.com.

According to the slide, one and a half years have passed since development started. Over this time, development has progressed through the following phases:

Conception
-Six months spent looking into the key features of the product and creating a prototype.

Vertical Slice
-Six months spent making a 15 minute gameplay build at 70% quality.

Pre-Production
-Four months spent focusing the concept by playing the vertical slice build and getting feedback. Also, creation of the "pipeline" and other areas of the development environment.

The slide says that they are now in full development of the game. Assuming the positioning of the marker is to scale, the project appears to still be a ways out.
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Source: http://www.andriasang.com/j/blog/2010/09/01/new_square_enix_game/

So unless full development and full production are different, they're in pre-production, which would be well after the game is up and running as a playable demo.
 
Updated the OP with that little bit showing the S-E development pipeline. Hopefully this demonstrates that the game is further along than assumed.
 
Nirolak said:
Here's a sample development cycle from Square Enix.


Source: http://www.andriasang.com/j/blog/2010/09/01/new_square_enix_game/

So unless full development and full production are different, they're in pre-production, which would be well after the game is up and running as a playable demo.
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FFAGv.jpg


Fascinating
 
Morkins said:
That doesn't make any sense unless they have completely different definitions of the stage of development that the rest of the world has...

In the interview he states they have a smaller team of key members working on the game. That is Pre-Production/Early Pre-Alpha(proof of concept stage, creating a vertical slice and testing out functionality). You cannot build a game even to Alpha stage without a full sized production team that is able to mass produce assets and build content. Full-Sized Production = Pre-Alpha or later. Alpha = Content complete. Beta = Final Stages of bug fixing.

He specifically stated that they don't have a full team on the game yet, so they aren't even anywhere remotely near Alpha yet. They may be in Pre-Alpha, but they are still in early Pre-Alpha.
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Dude, it's translation from Japanese. A lot of meaning can get lost and they don't necessarily mean what it might sound like in English. Just accept the fact that they aren't as early in development as the stupid pre-production crap made many of you think it is.

It's pretty clear from the January trailer that they are FAR along in development with how polished it looks (more polished than most games when they are completed, with many different environments, lots of cutscenes, events & different battles). That shit, in addition to all the information given by interviews after that trailer was shown, is no "pre-production" stage, at least not to anyone with fucking eyes.
 
Just wanted to correct what looks like a mistranslation here:

from finalfantasy.net
Quote:
This week’s issue of Famitsu makes it official. Final Fantasy XI is currently in the works to be on the PlayStation Vita portable gaming system. Director Hiromichi Tanaka made the announcement, noting that they are assembling staff to work on these projects currently.

original Japanese from FF-reunion:
Quote:
FF11：田中弘道氏「ＦＦ１１をＰＳＶへの単純な移植は検討しているが現時点で具体的な計画はない、ＰＳ３への移植はハードの特性を生かすような移植は基本的 に難しい」

my Japanese is not good,

but

is this real?
Click to expand...

Hiromichi Tanaka's quote 「ＦＦ１１をＰＳＶへの単純な移植は検討しているが現時点で具体的な計画はない、ＰＳ３への移植はハードの特性を生かすような移植は基本的 に難しい」 is more like, "We're thinking about making a simple port of FF11 to the PS Vita, but have no solid plans as of yet. Porting it to the PS3 and making use of the advantages that that hardware offers would also be difficult."
 
Nirolak said:
From Visceral Games' lead programmer.

I don't think either of these apply to Versus.
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Beta is the phase in which they kill bugs. Ending alpha means you have all the features and gameplay nailed down; beta is when you add the meat and spice up the graphics.
Morkins said:
In the interview he states they have a smaller team of key members working on the game. That is Pre-Production/Early Pre-Alpha(proof of concept stage, creating a vertical slice and testing out functionality). You cannot build a game even to Alpha stage without a full sized production team that is able to mass produce assets and build content. Full-Sized Production = Pre-Alpha or later. Alpha = Content complete. Beta = Final Stages of bug fixing.

...If it does apply to Versus, then I must say that they have the most impressive group of "key members" that I have ever heard of.... If they managed to even reach Alpha without a full production team they would be the most impressive team of "key members" ever.
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You don't need a full production team in alpha. Basically, SE's "pre-production" label indicates what we could call alpha in the west. Alpha != content complete. Beta is when they start filling in assets.
 
Nirolak said:
Here's a sample development cycle from Square Enix.


Source: http://www.andriasang.com/j/blog/2010/09/01/new_square_enix_game/

So unless full development and full production are different, they're in pre-production, which would be well after the game is up and running as a playable demo.
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Square just love drawing up statistics and other bullshit. That stuff mostly proves that they are fucking clueless about everything and they never follow through with any of it, as all their plans fall appart after a while.
It's either to fool investors or they just can't do any better.

Prime examples:

mg9868.jpg

270px-Fnclogo.JPG

world-of-mana-project-20050730094008446_640w.jpg

2r3jgap.jpg
 
The top one is nothing to do with being clueless, it's to do with not owning Western IPs that are really RPGs, beyond Deus Ex, and HR hadn't been announced at the time I believe.

The talk itself was clearly addressing Mass Effect without naming it.
 
StuBurns said:
The top one is nothing to do with being clueless, it's to do with not owning Western IPs that are really RPGs, beyond Deus Ex, and HR hadn't been announced at the time I believe.
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The second picture is from Tomb Raider. You tell me if Motomu Toriyama wasn't completely clueless in calling that a Western RPG.

The logos, however, have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 
dramatis said:
The second picture is from Tomb Raider. You tell me if Motomu Toriyama wasn't completely clueless in calling that a Western RPG.

The logos, however, have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
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It's not a WRPG, but they just picked games they own. They don't own Oblivion (or FO3 depending on the date) and Mass Effect which would be the big two for comparison. It's nothing to do with not knowing the WRPG market.
 
dramatis said:
The second picture is from Tomb Raider. You tell me if Motomu Toriyama wasn't completely clueless in calling that a Western RPG.

The logos, however, have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
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The logos have something to do with it.
It's their shitty projects they talked about endlessly, drew up 20 year plans and then shelved them.
They planned to recreate FFVII's success with FFXIII without having even developed the game and just expected it to become at least as popular as FFVII. This kind of shit is massively moronic.
 
Ahoi-Brause said:
The logos have something to do with it.
It's their shitty projects they talked about endlessly, drew up 20 year plans and then shelved them.
They planned to recreate FFVII's success with FFXIII without having even developed the game and just expected it to become at least as popular as FFVII. This kind of shit is massively moronic.
Click to expand...

You don't exactly get that type of sales like FF7 did without making something incredible and standing out as an RPG. FF13 was neither. What blows my mind was that FF12 was perhaps one of the best innovating ideas I saw in its series since going 3D, and they go and throw all that great game design away.
 
The three FFXIIIs could easily sell more than all the FFVIIs combined.

But even assuming that's the intention of the project is unfounded.
 
ZombieFred said:
You don't exactly get that type of sales like FF7 did without making something incredible and standing out as an RPG. FF13 was neither. What blows my mind was that FF12 was perhaps one of the best innovating ideas I saw in its series since going 3D, and they go and throw all that great game design away.
Click to expand...

Final Fantasy has consistently been about new mechanics.
 
ZombieFred said:
You don't exactly get that type of sales like FF7 did without making something incredible and standing out as an RPG. FF13 was neither. What blows my mind was that FF12 was perhaps one of the best innovating ideas I saw in its series since going 3D, and they go and throw all that great game design away.
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.

I remember being really excited about the Ivalice Alliance, and when FF12's closing credits rolled, all I could think about was the further goodness I could expect in this new family of games. We got Revenant Wings (and WotL), which is better than nothing, but I really wish more could have been done with FFXII. Had it been released in the PS3 era, I think they could have kept interest high for a long time with regular DLC containing additional monster hunts and new game modes. As it was, we had to shell out for a new game (IZJS) with a lot of that stuff.

With FFXIII they counted their chickens long, long before they hatched. Before the egg was laid, really. They presupposed that they would be building a world as captivating as FF7's or Ivalice, and despite the potential being there, they just couldn't. Now they need to dump the FNC mythos and come up with something new.
 
Riposte said:
Final Fantasy has consistently been about new mechanics.
Click to expand...

FF12 was the biggest transformation Square ever did on the game mechanics alone. FF13 felt downgraded in comparison to the freedom and depth the gambit system allowed. FF13 felt like a combination of 10's sphere system with the traditional turn based battles in older titles (outside of the shift mechanics). The battle system was not by any means bad for a FF title, but I just felt disappointed when there was such bigger potential if they evolved the gambit and battle system from 12 and brought that into a more dynamic world with Caccoon and Pulse.
 
FantasticMrFoxdie said:
Thank Jebus they are not in pre-production. It actually sounds like they are somewhere in alpha or beta testing?


Also, Tomb Raider is a Western RPG? :lol
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I would call it more Pre-Alpha going by Western development standards...
 
StuBurns said:
The three FFXIIIs could easily sell more than all the FFVIIs combined.

But even assuming that's the intention of the project is unfounded.
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The compilation of FFVII has more than 18 million in sales when you include the original FF7 also. This is neglecting that XIII-2 and Versus are console RPGs while DoG was some kind of shooter and Crisis Core was released on the PSP. I don't think the three FFXIIIs (Versus, FFXIII-2, FFXIII) stand a chance of easily passing that unless XIII-2 manages to sell over 5 million and Versus over 6 million.
 
Famassu said:
Dude, it's translation from Japanese. A lot of meaning can get lost and they don't necessarily mean what it might sound like in English. Just accept the fact that they aren't as early in development as the stupid pre-production crap made many of you think it is.

It's pretty clear from the January trailer that they are FAR along in development with how polished it looks (more polished than most games when they are completed, with many different environments, lots of cutscenes, events & different battles). That shit, in addition to all the information given by interviews after that trailer was shown, is no "pre-production" stage, at least not to anyone with fucking eyes.
Click to expand...

It is possible to make a very polished vertical slice and be nowhere near completing the game....
 
ZombieFred said:
FF12 was the biggest transformation Square ever did on the game mechanics alone. FF13 felt downgraded in comparison to the freedom and depth the gambit system allowed. FF13 felt like a combination of 10's sphere system with the traditional turn based battles in older titles (outside of the shift mechanics). The battle system was not by any means bad for a FF title, but I just felt disappointed when there was such bigger potential if they evolved the gambit and battle system from 12 and brought that into a more dynamic world with Caccoon and Pulse.
Click to expand...
This man is right.
FFXIII was a giant step back into ATARI 2600 gameplay dimensions while FFXII tried to innovate the genre with breaking up the old formula and taking jrpgs into the era after 8bit. FFXIII just made it more stale. It's unbelievable how much they fucked up with that - probably out of spite against matsuno
 
Kam said:
The compilation of FFVII has more than 18 million in sales when you include the original FF7 also. This is neglecting that XIII-2 and Versus are console RPGs while DoG was some kind of shooter and Crisis Core was released on the PSP. I don't think the three FFXIIIs (Versus, FFXIII-2, FFXIII) stand a chance of easily passing that unless XIII-2 manages to sell over 5 million and Versus over 6 million.
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'Easily' is subjective, but that's fair. And for all we there are more FFXIIIs coming. My point is to say that project failed already is premature, it assumes we knew the intent, and we didn't, and that it's over, and it's not.
 
Kagari said:
Updated the OP with that little bit showing the S-E development pipeline. Hopefully this demonstrates that the game is further along than assumed.
Click to expand...
Ok, so they are basically in Pre-alpha/Alpha(since definitions of these are sort of fluid... Either way, the majority of the game is not yet built). Going by the way most western developers describe things, I'd put it in the Pre-Alpha corner rather than Alpha.

They completed the Conception(concept and basic design principles), Vertical Slice(Proof of Concept demo), and Pre-Production(Refining and tweaking the proof of concept, building the development tools). Now they are entering actual development... Basically, they have a polished 15 minute Gameplay Test and the tools... The game itself is only just now starting to be made. The levels aren't designed, the models aren't created, the assets aren't created... Basically, they have an idea of what the game is and a 15 minute demo showing how it should theoretically play.... I'd say they have another 2 years of development at least.
 
Morkins said:
Ok, so they are basically in Pre-alpha/Alpha(since definitions of these are sort of fluid... Either way, the majority of the game is not yet built). Going by the way most western developers describe things, I'd put it in the Pre-Alpha corner rather than Alpha.

They completed the Conception(concept and basic design principles), Vertical Slice(Proof of Concept demo), and Pre-Production(Refining the tweaking the proof of concept, building the development tools). Now they are entering actual development... Basically, they have a polished 15 minute Gameplay Test, and the tools... The game itself is only just now starting to be made. I'd say they have another 2 years of development at least.
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They're in alpha. If you mean by "game built" that it has full on art assets, cutscenes, quests/missions/whatever in, then no it's not built yet. But if you mean game mechanics, that's probably done. You're mistaking what alpha's purpose is.

You're also running too strictly on what the bulletpoint article said. "Pre-production" as described there is essentially Alpha in western equivalent.

Also, nobody confuse beta phase with beta testing (aka like an MMO). Not the same thing.
 
StuBurns said:
'Easily' is subjective, but that's fair. And for all we there are more FFXIIIs coming. My point is to say that project failed already is premature, it assumes we knew the intent, and we didn't, and that it's over, and it's not.
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The comparison is pointless was my point.

You're comparing, currently, three mainline console RPG games to a 15 year old RPG which was mostly expanded upon my projects that cost nowhere near as much money as Versus, XIII and, likely, XIII-2 to develop outside of Advent Children. An FFXIII project having comparable sales is hardly a "success" though in comparison if it takes 3 big budget games to outdo those which cost considerably less. It makes it worse if there are more games coming up as it makes the comparison even worse for the project.

That is, if you were indeed arguing this from a perspective of "SE was trying to create another FFVII success story" and your post was the counter point. It doesn't really hold up.

FF is going to be successful because it's FF. That's what it comes down to ultimately. It hardly matters what the project is or what the intent is, and on that point I agree.

Personally, I don't think people really care about the FNC project. SE was just being SE and hyping things. Versus has no connection, and XIII-2 wasn't likely a plan originally either. Outside of XIII and XIII-2, Versus and Agito are basically separate games entirely. The FNC may as well not exist now and I believe that's mainly because SE clearly didn't have a plan for it as a project (or they may have but spectacularly failed on it, and are now treating them separate projects entirely).

If anything, I think Versus would be hurt more for having the XIII in its name.
 
Kam said:
That is, if you were indeed arguing this from a perspective of "SE was trying to create another FFVII success story" and your post was the counter point. It doesn't really hold up.
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My point was absolutely not that they intended to make more money on the project, my point was we don't know their intention, so we can't consider it a failure or not.

FFXIII sold great, not FFVII good, but it's not as good of a game, it hasn't had ten years of sales, and it's not something new for the audience.
 
Kam said:
The comparison is pointless was my point.

You're comparing, currently, three mainline console RPG games to a 15 year old RPG which was mostly expanded upon my projects that cost nowhere near as much money as Versus, XIII and, likely, XIII-2 to develop outside of Advent Children.

An FFXIII project having comparable sales is hardly a "success" though in comparison if it takes 3 big budget games to outdo those which cost considerably less. It makes it worse if there are more games coming up as it makes the comparison even worse for the project.

That is, if you were indeed arguing this from a perspective of "SE was trying to create another FFVII success story" and your post was the counter point. It doesn't really hold up.

Personally, I don't think people really care about the FNC project. SE was just being SE and hyping things. Versus has no connection, and XIII-2 wasn't likely a plan originally either. Outside of XIII and XIII-2, Versus and Agito are basically separate games.

If anything, I think Versus would be hurt more for having the XIII in its name.
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It's a shame I can't find those powerpoint slides square created anymore, where they made complicated statistics and diagrams to show how Fabula Stulta Cumfart is going to be a 20 year success story.
 
dramatis said:
They're in alpha. If you mean by "game built" that it has full on art assets, cutscenes, quests/missions/whatever in, then no it's not built yet. But if you mean game mechanics, that's probably done. You're mistaking what alpha's purpose is.

You're also running too strictly on what the bulletpoint article said. "Pre-production" as described there is essentially Alpha in western equivalent.

Also, nobody confuse beta phase with beta testing (aka like an MMO). Not the same thing.
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I wouldn't call the "Pre-Production" bullet essentially Alpha... I would call it late Pre-Production/Early Pre-Alpha... Based on what is described in those slides NONE of the game is completed yet. They have the proof of concept demo completed but none of the actual game content... I don't see how you could call that Alpha....


DICE calls this Pre-Alpha... To make that level, you have to have a full sized team. The interview in this thread specifically mentions that they are only just now getting a full sized team on FFVS13
 
Ahoi-Brause said:
It's a shame I can't find those powerpoint slides square created anymore, where they made complicated statistics and diagrams to show how Fabula Stulta Cumfart is going to be a 20 year success story.
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I remember that. I was around 15 then. I remember thinking, damn this is going to be huge. 6 years later, with one shit game, its sequel on the way, another promising one finally releasing and the most promising still over a year away, I laugh at my 15 year old self. I believed the hype at the time.

Classic case of over promising and not delivering, likely due to not having any real plan or strategy.
 
Morkins said:
I wouldn't call the "Pre-Production" bullet essentially Alpha... I would call it late Pre-Production/Early Pre-Alpha... Based on what is described in those slides NONE of the game is completed yet. They have the proof of concept demo completed but none of the actual game content... I don't see how you could call that Alpha....


DICE calls this Pre-Alpha... To make that level, you have to have a full sized team. The interview in this thread specifically mentions that they are only just now getting a full sized team on FFVS13
Click to expand...

To be fair, from the most recent gameplay trailer we have seen, there has been footage of multiple levels that are are playing live with cut scenes and other assets being used. It would be safe to say the stage of the game is in pre-alpha.
 
Square-Enix is a very talented company and it employs some of the most talented people in the industry... but the company needs a complete overhaul of their management staff and development process. Management just doesn't seem to have direction and the ability to direct the rest of the team, which in turn leads to very long development times and overly elaborate and extremely complicated games. I mean, the lack of production is even noticed by some of the management themselves!

To me, it seems as if the company has become completely obsessed with creating this strange ass aura of mystery and suspense around each game, as if they think it will increase anticipation and excitement... which really does the exact opposite. The more they remain secretive, the less interested I get in it. It is a form of arrogance that provides me with a perception that they are not proud of the work they have done on the game so far. I mean, what do they have to lose by not showing the damn pictures publicly? Now, if the photos are as good as Famitsu say they are, than that would do wonders for the games publicity... unless of course, they are complete bullshit, and they know it. It appears as if Square-Enix management believes that people will just buy the game because it has Final Fantasy in it, so they don't have any reason to really show people the game and they can take as long as they need to finish it. Poor. Poor. Poor.

I mean, the game isn't even in full production...? You've been working on this game for at least 5 years now and you haven't even hit full production? That just blows my mind... it does make it appear that Square-Enix purposely held back Versus full-production time and time again so they could give all resources to FF XIII and FF XIII-2...

After reading the thread fully, I really hope Versus is far enough along after the years of development that the full production they say they are going into is just to finish up lingering issues and polish the damn game. And it seriously better be the best JRPG I've ever played...!
 
Kam said:
I remember that. I was around 15 then. I remember thinking, damn this is going to be huge. 6 years later, with one shit game, its sequel on the way, another promising one finally releasing and the most promising still over a year away, I laugh at my 15 year old self. I believed the hype at the time.

Classic case of over promising and not delivering, likely due to not having any real plan or strategy.
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I remember being shocked at how delusional they are... like they are trapped inside their own weird anime logic they use for all their plots ( after they got rid of their good writers )
 
DrewM1788 said:
What a surprise...I was right. A massive overreaction from GAF.
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Pretty much par the course here. Anytime you see something about Square here from a translated interview you have to be weary. Common sense would dicatete that people here were misinterpreting what we said given that we had a gameplay trailer as far back as last year....
 
StuBurns said:
It better not be ten years... please
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It'll be fine, the game will be released next year. I'm confident we would hear much more about the game once they've finished focusing on DOTA2. They've easily expanded their portfollio since episode 2 so they can feel happy returning to full production on the title now that they've had some space to try other things.
 
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