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Not even Naughty Dog can Remaster their own games

Vick

Member
Uncharted 4 have the most disgusting temporal anti-aliasing I have ever seen holy shit ... well right after Hellblade.
Well, at launch it was the cleanest game on the platform.

And this is how it looks on Pro, during gameplay (some are took while aiming with the HS39 with HUD turned off):
































On Kuro this game is still simply mindblowing, and IQ is much improved in this Remaster, even at the same resolution.

Could missing effects like the mist be down to increased visual clarity? I know there was supposedly a bump in resolution.
It would be extremely weird, as that scene is supposed to be exactly like it was. It's the dramatic opening shot of the game during an heavy storm, where only once lightnings strike it is revealed to the player there's an island there.

Artistic or technical, it's a downgrade regardless.
As said in OP, the same exact sequence during the Prologue is much more similar to the original (except for the lighthing issue, and a few mist layers missing).

The missing AO is criminal though, I'm very surprised by that. Really makes the scenes presented look flat and not particularly grounded.
The biggest downgrade for me is the toned down GI. I mean, you don't tone down the most advanced aspect of your game..




AO is not missing however, not even in that sequence. Just much less effective.

Yeah I think they use those fog etc. to reduce draw distance and hide things. The other stuff is interesting though.
Remember though, in the Prologue the same shots still look 90% like the original.
 
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VN1X

Member
Isn't this remaster done by a different company? And what the bloody fuck is going on with that thread title lol, first it was "his" now it's "her"? :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Just rename the thread to "Uncharted The Lost Legacy Remaster Suffers From Tons of Downgrades!!" (see I even made it clickbaity free of charge!).
 
A lot of remasters seem to get visual effects lost in translation; especially when new lighting is involved. Like the Batman Arkham game. They added all new lighting and it looked nice in game, but made the cutscenes look like ass in comparison to the original.

The new lighting in ME1 in the Legendary edition turned me off of buying it. It just looks so bland in comparison. I may get it when it’s $20 for the 4K/60fps, but it won’t be the true “definitive” experience I’d like.
 

Sosokrates

Gold Member
Are we sure that the 60fps/120fps modes are not the explanations for the downgrades?

I could understand it on the 120fps mode.

But on the 60fps mode?

The PS4 has over 2x raw GPU and over 4x CPU power, compared to the pro, 60fps at same res and settings should be easy.
Somethinga were upgraded though but Gi is pretty important and should not of been downgraded.
 

Shmunter

Member
These differences are really small.
Some might be artistic choices (see the less intrusive motion blur Digital Foundry also talked about), others might be simple tweaks needed to get the game running well at the intended presets (native 4K@30fps, 1440p@60fps), others might be things that were lost in the porting effort and might be recovered with future patches so it's good to spot them.
But if they're intentional there's not much to do about it.
By making a game natively on PS5 with a new graphical engine conceived for PS5 they could do much more, but basically this might be the best they can do porting the existing engine with an effort that is compatible with the budget allocated to a simple remaster that needed to be released quickly.

I'm playing U4 on PS5 right now in native 4K and basically textures got a new life, you can see the fine details in the texture work that was simply killed by lower res. The benefit is immense vs these small details I actually didn't even remember and noticed while playing.
I can imagine a scenario that this game is running in a very new engine under the bonnet already, fully compatible with the last gen PS4 engine but also capable of much more, just not yet leveraged- we just don’t know it.
 
The upgrades are worth some barely noticeable downgrades. Started playing this in 60fps as the 1440p mode doesn't look that bad to me.

OP: I also noticed some areas where the motion blur was completely deactivated even though motion blur was on in the settings, then I walked a little further and it was activated again.
 

Andodalf

Member
Performance.

The only difference between modes is resolution.


I did it, so hopefully they'll be sorted if enough people acknowledge it, and you could play an even more stunning game at 60fps.
You're welcome. :)
It’s very possible these were intentional cutbacks to make sure the framerate stays solid at 60 and especially 120 fps.
 
I kinda don't understand how it can be hard to port this game to a system that's almost the same as a faster PS4 Pro.

Heck, when you buy a new PC, you can run the same games on it in higher resolution and frame rate, so why didn't they just go in there, change the resolution and frame rate and be done?

I know it's obviously not as easy as that, but it's not like they're trying to port a PS3 game to PS5.
 

PSYGN

Member
Even if the differences are small they are quite noticeable when presented side by side. Knowing ND to be perfectionists this is a bit jarring, but since they are perfectionists and this is their own baby they will probably patch the remaining visual issues. Hell, they'll probably use this thread to track visual issues 🤣 Good eye
 

Filben

Member
Well, if even Naughty Dog couldn't avoid downgrading their own game, on a platform backwards compatible with the original code, i'm not really all that hopeful about Iron Galaxy.
And it's a shame, because shadows option would do wonders for some Chapters.
Maybe it's more a resources allocation thing than competence. Like I could see ND currently spending like 80% of their resources on their next game and only 20% on this upgrade. If there's another studio that is 100% dedicated to upgrade this version and don't do anything else maybe it's going to be different.

It goes without saying that I'm not overly optimistic but there's nothing to do but hope.

For the sake of recording I find this highly interesting, no matter if these differences are a big deal or not. That's a question only to be answered individually (and in no way the OP is saying like this version is garbage and you shouldn't buy it), but as a record on the difference between these two version this is an excellent observation.
 
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Vick

Member
A lot of remasters seem to get visual effects lost in translation; especially when new lighting is involved. Like the Batman Arkham game. They added all new lighting and it looked nice in game, but made the cutscenes look like ass in comparison to the original.

The new lighting in ME1 in the Legendary edition turned me off of buying it. It just looks so bland in comparison. I may get it when it’s $20 for the 4K/60fps, but it won’t be the true “definitive” experience I’d like.
That's why i hate most Remasters and much prefer the original PC release of games, Arkham series in particular.

But in this case it's Naughty Dog themselves handling it, so it really was disappointing to me as i loved The Last of Us: Remastered.

OP: are you comparing this to the PS4 Pro release or standard PS4?
Standard.

Even if the differences are small they are quite noticeable when presented side by side. Knowing ND to be perfectionists this is a bit jarring, but since they are perfectionists and this is their own baby they will probably patch the remaining visual issues. Hell, they'll probably use this thread to track visual issues 🤣 Good eye
ND acknowledging this would be awesome, them using this Thread to track visual issues on the other hand would suck, as i'd have to post something like 400 more comparisons. :messenger_neutral:
Also some people are already calling this nitpicking.. they've haven't seen real nitpick yet. lol

But i'll probably do it. Maybe divided by Chapters and categories (Priority, Nitpick, Uber Nitpick).

Yeah lol, Mods having fun.
 
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Vick

Member
That could be part of the problem. There could be some visual differences on the standard version whereas they probably used the Pro version and upgraded from there. I'm only speculating though obviously.
In this game, only differences between Pro and Base are resolution and framerate.

Not even Crash flawlessly survived this Port by the way:


 

Dr Bass

Member
Nadines hair is crazy.

It's mental to think that they are charging for this, with these issues. Hopefully they get patched soon because I've flipping paid for the upgrade and feel a bit skanked now!
Are you ignoring all of the other improvements you got for that ten bucks?

You know when I go and buy a coffee for me and the lady these days its like 15 bucks. I can't imagine feeling "skanked" (skanked?) for a ten dollar upgrade that has massive improvements in it, and some minor differences otherwise. Some of that stuff is just .... I dunno, I mean good eyes but ... yeah.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
Are you ignoring all of the other improvements you got for that ten bucks?

You know when I go and buy a coffee for me and the lady these days its like 15 bucks. I can't imagine feeling "skanked" (skanked?) for a ten dollar upgrade that has massive improvements in it, and some minor differences otherwise. Some of that stuff is just .... I dunno, I mean good eyes but ... yeah.
Yeah, I never played LL, even if it’s disappointing to hear it’s not a good version it’s still dirt cheap to get it for $10 just because I had a UC4 disc.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Things I learned on GAF today:

-the OP has OCD

-There's a gif of the golf club thing, which I will be using from now on.

-Naughty Dog? Moar liek Lazy Cat, m i rite

-I'm not tech savvy, so I'm not as angry as I should be over the the terrible temporal anti aliasing shadow filter occlusion super street fighter 2 turbo polygon count or whatever.

-A lot of these images look the same.

-I was never going to pay money to upgrade a game when other titles do it for free. Nice try, Neil Cuckman and Greedy Racoon.

-Naughty Dog, the entity, is gender fluid, and I, for one, say yasss slay queen. Or king. Serf?
 

Notabueno

Banned
Porting games like Uncharted 4 is not an easy task, to say the least. Especially in a relatively short time, and especially if bundled with titles such as The Lost Legacy.

However, i find fascinating how nobody spotted the huge number of little downgrades the games got in the Legacy of Thieves release, in conjunction with its improvements (which are many more Comparisons online were able to find).

So even if most of the game the game looks virtually identical/improved compared to its original Release, every kind of downgrade is featured here; from missing VFX, missing shadows, missing reflections, worse effects at times such as AO and some shaders, simplified and toned down bounce lighting from the dynamic GI (via Software RT), visual glitches and so on.

I spent these last few days comparing the whole game, and was able to grab a total of almost 800 screenshots (half from the OG, half from the Remaster) showcasing these kind of issues.

And since users like @rofif , Shmunter Shmunter or drotahorror drotahorror asked me to share these findings, so here some examples of missing VFX (PS4 Top, PS5 Bottom, open pictures in new tab to switch back and forth):








What's weird is that the same scene in the Prologue, while still missing a few layers of mist, looks significantly closer to the original compared to what's shown above (end of Chapter 12). Still, even in the Prologue is clear how this Remaster features an issue with lightnings, as they never appear as clear and bright as they did before, and stay on screen for just a fraction of the time. As always, PS4 top, PS5 bottom.




Another example of occasional missing VFX include dust particles from bullet impact, like in this scene for example:




Or absent light sources:



Or a downgraded version of Nadine's hair, which is missing the special layer between skin and hair (along with worse shaders on her silk dress):







Or water bubbles absent from the end of Chapter 2, and many others.

Here some instances of missing reflections:







Or missing shadows:










Or worse Ambient Occlusion:







And a few examples of the toned down GI (which was the most astounding technical aspect of the game):
















Here some examples of the kind of visual glitches (the lamp in the first picture):










And among the almost 800 shots, there are also instances like this:




Which at first glance may appear as an artistic choice, however closer inspection reveals how the background is simply missing multiple layers compared to the original, as if it was sourced from an incomplete build.

Or this:




Which however i think is an artistic choice, as the coast being there in the original contradics the previous shot.

As i said, these are just a tiny fraction of the "issues" i've found. The reason i kept getting screenshots is that i hope to see each and every one of those fixed, because:

1) The number of improvements in this Remaster is incredible.

2) This is the version that will be ported in the future, and as we have seen with countless other titles over the years, once the first port is missing some visual features, they are gone forever.

Ideally, this Thread will be seen by some other fans of this game, leading to some discussion, leading hopefully to someone from ND acknowledging these issues. Wishful thinking, but worth a try.

P.S. I'm more than willing to send the full screenshots folder to whoever is interested.

You have a keen eye, thanks for doing the work.
 

Ezekiel_

Member
Porting games like Uncharted 4 is not an easy task, to say the least. Especially in a relatively short time, and especially if bundled with titles such as The Lost Legacy.

However, i find fascinating how nobody spotted the huge number of little downgrades the games got in the Legacy of Thieves release, in conjunction with its improvements (which are many more Comparisons online were able to find).

So even if most of the game the game looks virtually identical/improved compared to its original Release, every kind of downgrade is featured here; from missing VFX, missing shadows, missing reflections, worse effects at times such as AO and some shaders, simplified and toned down bounce lighting from the dynamic GI (via Software RT), visual glitches and so on.

I spent these last few days comparing the whole game, and was able to grab a total of almost 800 screenshots (half from the OG, half from the Remaster) showcasing these kind of issues.

And since users like @rofif , Shmunter Shmunter or drotahorror drotahorror asked me to share these findings, so here some examples of missing VFX (PS4 Top, PS5 Bottom, open pictures in new tab to switch back and forth):








What's weird is that the same scene in the Prologue, while still missing a few layers of mist, looks significantly closer to the original compared to what's shown above (end of Chapter 12). Still, even in the Prologue is clear how this Remaster features an issue with lightnings, as they never appear as clear and bright as they did before, and stay on screen for just a fraction of the time. As always, PS4 top, PS5 bottom.




Another example of occasional missing VFX include dust particles from bullet impact, like in this scene for example:




Or absent light sources:



Or a downgraded version of Nadine's hair, which is missing the special layer between skin and hair (along with worse shaders on her silk dress):







Or water bubbles absent from the end of Chapter 2, and many others.

Here some instances of missing reflections:







Or missing shadows:










Or worse Ambient Occlusion:







And a few examples of the toned down GI (which was the most astounding technical aspect of the game):
















Here some examples of the kind of visual glitches (the lamp in the first picture):










And among the almost 800 shots, there are also instances like this:




Which at first glance may appear as an artistic choice, however closer inspection reveals how the background is simply missing multiple layers compared to the original, as if it was sourced from an incomplete build.

Or this:




Which however i think is an artistic choice, as the coast being there in the original contradics the previous shot.

As i said, these are just a tiny fraction of the "issues" i've found. The reason i kept getting screenshots is that i hope to see each and every one of those fixed, because:

1) The number of improvements in this Remaster is incredible.

2) This is the version that will be ported in the future, and as we have seen with countless other titles over the years, once the first port is missing some visual features, they are gone forever.

Ideally, this Thread will be seen by some other fans of this game, leading to some discussion, leading hopefully to someone from ND acknowledging these issues. Wishful thinking, but worth a try.

P.S. I'm more than willing to send the full screenshots folder to whoever is interested.
I'm just going to echo what others have said : if truly you feel that there are things 'missing', please try to contact Naughty Dog.

Maybe there's things that can be addressed with a patch.
 

Vick

Member
-the OP has OCD


It's awful.

I'm just going to echo what others have said : if truly you feel that there are things 'missing', please try to contact Naughty Dog.
Yeah i think i will in the end, and just link them this Thread.. i better start uploading other comparisons then.

Maybe there's things that can be addressed with a patch.
Technically, every single one of these issue could be addressed with an update. Will they though? 🤞
 

01011001

Member
Ambient Occlusion if often tied to resolution. so if you played this in the resolution mode the AO will be less pronounced. that is this way in almost any game
 

dvdvideo

Member
I noticed a lot of this too, especially Nadines hair that was very jarring. Played it originally years ago but immediately noticed the downgrade of her hair.

Also 30fps 4k is ridiculous it most definitely could run at 4k60 very poor.

Op must have too much time on thier hands.

And this post, is it a joke post? Her hair?
And the game looks amazing at 4k, it's not surprising it can't hit 4k at 60. Try running a game like this at 4k on a pc, you'd need like a 3080.
 

Vick

Member
Ambient Occlusion if often tied to resolution. so if you played this in the resolution mode the AO will be less pronounced. that is this way in almost any game
AO is the same between modes though, and was the same between Pro and Base PS4. I don't think that's the reason, in part because AO in Performance mode (1440p) is different compared to the OG on Pro (1440p), but especially because here sometimes it's absolutely identical to the original on PS4.

By the way, here is a comparison of basically every single little visual "issue" i've found in Prologue, Chapter 1 and Chapter 3. The reason i'm posting Chapter 3 instead of 2 is because of the limit of pictures per post, as i have many shots in the second chapter. I haven't analized every inch of the game of course, but they should provide a sufficient overview.

Very few major things in these first chapters, most of them are uber-anal-nitpick or debatable things, especially in Chapter 1.
The reason i'm posting them anyway is because of the (slim) eventuality some folks from ND see this Thread.

As always, PS4 top, PS5 bottom.

Prologue:

Note: This is a collection of pictures of the same lightning (not multiple ones) and its various phases of intensity across both versions.













Lightnings effects are simply broken in this port. It is not an artistic choice, something's just not properly working here and the same thing occurs through the whole game. You just never properly see a lightning in the Legacy of Thieves release.
And the few missing mist layers don't help either, especially in motion.

Nitpick hour:
Lens flare effects like this one are cheaper looking in the Remaster. It's really hard to portay in pictures, but they are more suble and sophisticated in the original, while almost annoying in the Remaster.
This is constant through the whole sequence. It could be an artistic choice, and it probably is, but i can't really say i'm a fan of.



Chapter 1:

This entire Chapter features very minor differences, and most of them are debatable. Nothing major worthy of note here, so my advice is to simply not open the Spoiler unless you're a maniac or a ND employee.

Nitpick hour:
They changed Nate's expression during this sequence, and needless to say i prefer the original. His face in the OG expresses both sadness and anger, while there's only anger on display in the Remaster. But it's debatable.




There's a weird issue going on at the top of the lamp, absent in the original. AO/shading is also worse looking to me, especially on the phone, and on the bronze part of the lamp with less realistic highlights on the bottom (not seen here).
In general, for the most part of this area AO and shading don't look as good as they did before to me.




Like here for example.




The smoke coming from the chimney looks less volumetric in the Remaster. Hard to portray in pictures though.




In the Original Release they decided to make these particular trees darker to accentuate the scary feeling of this jump. It made sense, being them occluded by the buildings, and made the sequence more impactful.










What's curious is that they made the tree in the immediate next shot darker than the Original.




Moonlight highlights on the bulding surfaces are toned down here. I prefer the OG, as it blends perfectly with highlights on leaves of distant trees, and ultimately makes for a more atmospheric shot.




There are also ugly looking spots like these in the Remaster which could have been improved.


Chapter 3:




There are significantly less fish in the Remaster in this openining shot, and it's possible they altered/toned down their AI as they act downright weird and some even clip with the camera. This never happened in the original.










As also seen in OP, the GI bounce lighting is toned down in this whole sequence. It's hard to spot in pictures, but i personally really hate this change (which is much more noticeable in motion), as the sequence looked simply mindblowing in the OG thanks to this incredible tech.




Wet shaders on Nate suit have been toned down a bit for this scene.
Note that in the immediate previous shot he looked super wet in both Remaster and OG. The suit also slowly dried during gameplay in the OG.







As better seen in OP, reflections on water are toned down/downright missing in the Remaster.
An uber-nitpick kind of of find is that in this last shot the yellow tree in the background is slightly better shaded in the original.

Nitpick hour:



Bloom is toned down on this yellow can in the Remaster. This is probably due to the fact they imperceptibly altered shaders on said can as later seen in the game, however i prefer the way the original shot looked. Just like i prefer the way whatever-that-thing-by-the-door-is was shaded in the original.


As i said, very few major things in these first Chapters. That's not always the case with the next ones though.

P.S. Genuine apologies to anyone triggered by the batshit crazy levels of OCD on display here. :messenger_heart:
 
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