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NSFW - Rhythm 0 - Extreme performance art

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Fair warning, this is a pretty disturbing piece of performance art/experiment in human psychology that includes discussion of a woman willingly subjecting themselves to potential sexual abuse and violence from a crowd in an art gallery, but the point is certainly not just to shock and appall but discuss how this parallels something like the Stanford prison experiments and what it says about how easy it is for some people to distance themselves so drastically from basic empathy and the value of life when someone is put into a passive, subjugated role, especially willingly as is the case here. Without further ado:

NSFW (nude photos): https://humansareweird.com/2013/02/21/marina-abramovic-a-performing-artist/

Her name is Marina Abramović.

She’s 66 years old. She’s from Serbia and based in NY. And she’s a performance artist.

“Rhythm 0, 1974”

The idea, loosely explained, was to test the limits binding the performer and the audience to their furthest degree. She did this by assigning herself a horrifically passive role, where she would stand, for six hours, in an open space, behind a table with carefully chosen objects laid upon it, and a sign explaining what she was doing, and that she would take full responsibility for what was to happen to her.

On the table, the objects she used consisted of things that could be used for pleasure, and objects that could be used for pain, as far as death:

A rose. A feather. Grapes. Honey. A condom. A whip. A scalpel. A gun. And a single bullet.

Apparently, as she explains in the interview, beginning the performance, her audience was quite playful. They were hesitant and reserved and did not think to push the boundaries.

Later, they became more aggressive. She explains it as “6 hours of real horror.” Where people tore at her clothes. Pierced her skin with a rose’s stem. Cut her with a knife and drank her blood. They carried her around, half naked, laid her down on the table and stabbed the knife in between her legs, driving it into and through the table’s surface.

It got to the stage where somebody put the bullet into the gun, and held it at her head with a finger on the trigger. Another member of the audience brushed this person aside, and diffused the situation. Another person tried to have sex with her, until (assumedly “he”) he was deterred by someone else. The tension was thick, real.

After the six hours had lapsed, after she had been caressed, pricked, cut, scalded, almost raped, and almost shot in the head, the gallery’s supervisor came and said that the act was now over. She walked forward toward the audience, naked, with blood dripping from her skin, tears in her eyes. The result?

Everybody ran away. Not one person was willing to confront her active state.

She explained that that night, when she was staring at herself in the mirror of her hotel room, that she saw a long, single strand of white hair.

She speaks on her experience doing the piece here (nsfw, only photographs from the actual performance): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d30mfVm9ug

Sounds horrifying but also kind of thought provoking that art gallery types attending such a performance would actually take it to such extremes, and more appalling that something like a gun with a bullet was actually allowed as part of it, this woman could have been killed had someone not intervened. Something tells me this wouldn't exactly be possible to pull off in a gallery today.

So is this sort of thing fairly shallow and just for shock's sake, or does it actually provoke some deeper analysis and say something about us? Particularly as it applies to abuse, people in passive states (analogous to victims in a cycle of abuse at the hands of an abuser), sexism, objectification of women as sex objects, power fantasies, etc etc. Hopefully this is within the TOS but if deemed too disturbing I understand if mods want to shut it down.
 
This actually reminds me of something similar that I came across just recently: Extremely NSFW as well, basically porn

Now, I don't really care or understand what the point of it is, or what she got out of it, but what I see present in both of these cases is how quickly morals and to some extent compassion fall by the wayside when you have a willing participant, or by extension, a participant who you deem to be willing.
 
This actually reminds me of something similar that I came across just recently: Extremely NSFW as well, basically porn

Now, I don't really care or understand what the point of it is, or what she got out of it, but what I see present in both of these cases is how quickly morals and to some extent compassion fall by the wayside when you have a willing participant, or by extension, a participant who you deem to be willing.

This is the gist of it right? People just act like they can go wild in this context, no matter what level.

Also, found out about this via that reddit thread. That woman's bit is, um, quite shallow by comparison (especially considering the platform for doing it, protesting sexual assault), but does highlight how shameless some will be given that permission.


Interesting, and perhaps redundant in this thread but def needs nsfw tag.
 

Zombine

Banned
This actually reminds me of something similar that I came across just recently: Extremely NSFW as well, basically porn

Now, I don't really care or understand what the point of it is, or what she got out of it, but what I see present in both of these cases is how quickly morals and to some extent compassion fall by the wayside when you have a willing participant, or by extension, a participant who you deem to be willing.

She gives permission to touch, not to fondle. The box is used to show you that under the guise of anonymity average people use this permission to do something more than just touch, which is more or less what she's showing you and why the cameras are there.
 

NastyBook

Member
This actually reminds me of something similar that I came across just recently: Extremely NSFW as well, basically porn

Now, I don't really care or understand what the point of it is, or what she got out of it, but what I see present in both of these cases is how quickly morals and to some extent compassion fall by the wayside when you have a willing participant, or by extension, a participant who you deem to be willing.
The eye contact is KILLING me. At no point does your mind say to back off and apologize? I mean, I understand she let them, but it's still fucked up.
 

Skux

Member
Everybody ran away. Not one person was willing to confront her active state.

This has more to do with people's attitudes around performance than anything else. People view it as an act, something separate to the person.

It was a piece of performance that people watched, and is now over, and now they can walk away.
 
She's very interesting. Netflix has a documentary on her, I think it's called "The Artist is Present." Wife and I quite enjoyed it.

It's pretty incredible what she has the willpower to do.
 

Kisaya

Member
I watched a bit of that performance in one of my art history classes, pretty unsettling. She's definetly up their for extreme body performances. Chris Burden's early work is very similar.
 

Drencrom

Member

I just knew "Interior Semiotics" would be brought up.

It's just so flabbergastingly dumb, pretentious and probably the most art student-y thing ever. It's literally just this woman who has this banal speech where she says inane things like "Everything is shit" and then shoves spaghetti-o's in her vagina and then pisses them out. How is this profound and good art in anyway?
 

NastyBook

Member
It's literally just this woman who has this banal speech where she says inane things like "Everything is shit" and then shoves spaghetti-o's in her vagina and then pisses them out. How is this profound and good art in anyway?
Best sentence I've read all day, thank you.
 

Drencrom

Member
I remember how Shia Labeouf did something similar and was apparently raped by a woman


https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...r-ronkko-speak-alleged-rape-iamsorry-art-show

I'm in no way victim blaming the guy, but why didn't he just tell her off or tell the guards?

Did he literally just let this woman take off his pants because it's an art piece and he wasn't supposed to say or do anything...? If the guy was actually fearing for his life it's a completely other situation and understandable, but if he just let this woman touch him because he wanted to abide to his performance art rules it's fucking dumb.
 
I love discussions about art on GAF.

Wait, no. What's that word. I meant hate.

I hate discussions about art on GAF. There's a really large contingent of people that seem to think it can only be art if it is attractive in form or expressive of deep skill or talent or if it is functional in some regard. That a Mahler symphony is art but a John Cage piece isn't or a Coleman Free Jazz expression. That a Goya is art or a Picasso maybe if it's got enough lines or something is art but a Rothko is not. That ballet is art but contemporary dance isn't.

I don't know how someone could see performance art, something designed to challenge and push at you and make you question or think about how you feel or view something or attempt to communicate an idea to you, and not understand it and use that as the litmus for if it's art or not. It's still fucking art. If you don't like it or think it's stupid it's still art.

There are two kinds of art: art with a little a and art with a big A.

Art with a big A is whatever a group of people say it is and decide on. Everybody in the Art world said it was impressionism. Or post-modern. Or freeform. Or dada. Or whatever. They decide what is hung in a museum, what people pay thousands for and what is considered Art that we put in textbooks.

Then there is art with a little a. Art with a little a is a shared moment between two people where they attempted to communicate art at someone and that person received it. If a kid made a playdough sculpture and their parent thought it was a beautiful work of art, they just had an art moment with each other and that little hunk of...whatever is art. If a dude is messing around on his guitar in front of his girlfriend and he plays a repetition of notes that calms her and makes her feel light and airy, that's an expression of art. They shared that art between them. If some woman poured Tang into her vagina and mixed it with Cheerios and spooned it out of herself to eat it in front of a live stage audience of 50 people and one of the people went "Huh..." and thought about what she was getting at, sorry buddy, but that's art.

You can attempt to dictate what big A Art is, but if you're not part of that nebulous group of people that decide what's popular at the moment and gets hung in galleries, nobody gives a fuck what you think Art is and what you think won't change what Art is.

You can dictate what little a art is but only to yourself and not to what two other people experience between each other. Little a art is an expression of something and if you didn't get it and someone else did it doesn't make their view on that art moment any lesser or not art. That's not how it works, you can't tell someone else that something that caused them to experience a creator's work isn't real.

Art is Art. art is art. That's really all there is to it.
 
2014-08-01-4chan-ebay-art.jpg
 

Drencrom

Member
I love discussions about art on GAF.

Wait, no. What's that word. I meant hate.

[...]

Art is Art. art is art. That's really all there is to it.

I personally am not saying performance art isn't art.

I just personally think that art that is simply vile and off putting for the sake of it under the guise of being profound and "challenging" is the definition of bad and desperate art. Especially in cases where we got art students shoving food up their genital area while speaking in tongues.
 
I'm in no way victim blaming the guy, but why didn't he just tell her off or tell the guards?

Did he literally just let this woman take off his pants because it's an art piece and he wasn't supposed to say or do anything...? If the guy was actually fearing for his life it's a completely other situation and understandable, but if he just let this woman touch him because he wanted to abide to his performance art rules it's fucking dumb.

Not that I disagree with you but for an actor who might feel like audiences can't take his work seriously, I don't know maybe he felt really passionate about the piece and wants to be taken seriously as an artist. So he stays in the moment and concentrates on his performance, despite what's happening to him. I'm not trying to defend him but I can certainly empathize to a degree.
 
sure anything can be art
but not all art is good

Well, I mean...that's pretty obvious. I'm moreso talking about people who take a look at something and go "In my expert opinion as someone with no understanding of the world of Art or art, that's not art" But then even the delineation between good and bad art is making some asinine judgment calls based on, as I said before, people's prejudices or already pre-held beliefs on the aesthetic worth of something or mimetic properties or whether it sounds good. You can judge something as good or bad but I am significantly less inclined to acknowledge your ideas and critiques if you're coming from a place of very limited in scope ideas of what art is or inherently biased.

All art can be critiqued or looked at with a critical lense or argued over whether or not it's message was accurately or interestingly conveyed or anything. I mean, art discussion and whatnot is a great way to engage in art.

I think even speaking in tongues and Spaghetti-O vaginas can at least be used as a platform to discuss artistic ideas. We're kinda in that age now where a lot of our art of both types is kinda stretching boundaries and figuring out limits. I'm not going to fault it for that. I think stuff like this has merit even insofar as engendering discussion.

For the record I think the OP's performance art he posted? That is art art art.
 

Drencrom

Member
Well, I mean...that's pretty obvious. I'm moreso talking about people who take a look at something and go "In my expert opinion as someone with no understanding of the world of Art or art, that's not art"

All art can be critiqued or looked at with a critical lense or argued over whether or not it's message was accurately or interestingly conveyed or anything. I mean, art discussion and whatnot is a great way to engage in art.

I think even speaking in tongues and Spaghetti-O vaginas can at least be used as a platform to discuss artistic ideas. We're kinda in that age now where a lot of our art of both types is kinda stretching boundaries and figuring out limits. I'm not going to fault it for that. I think stuff like this has merit even insofar as engendering discussion.

For the record I think the OP's performance art he posted? That is art art art.

In what way is disgusting, farcical and bad art a good platform to discuss artistic ideas?

To what end can creating and discussing art like that benefit the artistic world or the real world?

I guess these things aren't things modern artists ask themselves anymore, they simply "create" art for the sake of creating it (which is noble in itself) but of no use to the public and people that don't see value in it, which then explains why art and artists in general aren't as prestigious and influential as it used to be.
 
For me personally, my "ignorance" concerning art, if you want to call it that, stems from the fact that I associate it too closely with skill. Which I suppose makes it quantifiable, and easier to understand. I can appreciate a good painting/song/sculpture/... because I can sort of wrap my mind around the effort and skill that went into making that. "Interior Semiotics" though, that's just some weird shit with a message I don't understand, or where I don't understand how the performance relates to the message.

In what way is disgusting, farcical and bad art a good platform to discuss artistic ideas?

To what end can creating and discussing art like that benefit the artistic world or the real world?

I thought that "mirror box" thing was kind of disgusting, but had a good message behind it.
 

Tabarin

Banned
This actually reminds me of something similar that I came across just recently: Extremely NSFW as well, basically porn

Now, I don't really care or understand what the point of it is, or what she got out of it, but what I see present in both of these cases is how quickly morals and to some extent compassion fall by the wayside when you have a willing participant, or by extension, a participant who you deem to be willing.

Yep, its porn allright

Lol at the guy stuffing all them fingers on her
 
In what way is disgusting, farcical and bad art a good platform to discuss artistic ideas?

To what end can creating and discussing art like that benefit the artistic world or the real world?

To expand and prod and test the limits of what it is, can be, and what effects it can cause.

Same way as Duchamp's Fountain. Or Manzoni's Merda d'artista.

which then explains why art and artists in general aren't as sought after as they used to.
...what
 

Drencrom

Member
To expand and prod and test the limits of what it is, can be, and what effects it can cause.

Same way as Duchamp's Fountain. Or Manzoni's Merda d'artista.


...what

I worded that pretty iffy (I had a drink). I meant that conventional and modern art and artists aren't as prestigious and influential as they/it used to be overall.

So yeah, that's what I'm saying. There's nothing wrong per say with testing boundaries for the sake of it, but when artists start delving into intentionally putting themselves in harm by being nearly raped and defecating in front of an audience I'm gonna have to say we've reached a point where I find it hard to see this amounting to anything beneficial.
 
I worded that pretty iffy (I had a drink). I meant that conventional and modern art and artists aren't as prestigious and influential as they/it used to be overall.

Do you consider film and music conventional art?

Because we live in a period of near unprecedented influence by artists involved with those industries.

Sure, we've no current Chaplins, but then, artists of that size are complete anomalies, and always have been. We sure af have plenty of pitts, jolies, clooneys, kanyes, and, from a different angle, nugents. All massively famous and considerably influential.

Are you remembering to take into account sturgeon's law?
 

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
This actually reminds me of something similar that I came across just recently: Extremely NSFW as well, basically porn

Now, I don't really care or understand what the point of it is, or what she got out of it, but what I see present in both of these cases is how quickly morals and to some extent compassion fall by the wayside when you have a willing participant, or by extension, a participant who you deem to be willing.

I seem to remember a thread about her before. She was the one who put paint into eggs and dropped them onto a canvas from her vagina. Very NSFW
 

Palculator

Unconfirmed Member
I seem to remember a thread about her before. She was the one who put paint into eggs and dropped them onto a canvas from her vagina. Very NSFW
That seems to be one of the odder things she's done. Or at least one which is less comprehensible to me. Looking through her other works, the fondling video posted above I can easily understand as an homage to Valie Export's Tap and Touch Cinema which was in turn about highlighting cinema as a space for the realisation of male fantasies, her public naked selfies as being about self-exposure nowadays, her naked protest in Cologne very obviously about sexual self-determination, and so on. The PlopEgg performance (both of them, I guess since she's done it again) however leaves me with a big "?".

Not that I'm complaining, just a wee bit odd. Though I can't help but feel some of the points she's making about females being reduced to sex objects are hurt by them selling the uncensored unlocalised versions of these videos on her website.
 
I took a class on Performance Art in grad school and our final was performing a 10 minute long performance art piece. It was one of the most difficult things I've ever done performance-wise and that includes full length operas with a lot of difficult singing. I have a lot of respect for performers who put themselves out there for things like this even when the message doesn't come across as clearly. I also think it is nearly impossible to experience this sort of thing through media. There is a huge disconnect between watching something like this and experiencing it in person with an actual living person.
 
I feel like this is relevant.

I generally don't have any real issue with more abstract forms of art, but a lot of it comes off as though the artist just crawled too far up their own ass and forgot whatever point it was they were trying to make. Of course, I know that's most likely a small minority of it, but I still feel like I see it way too often.
 
I feel like this is relevant.

I generally don't have any real issue with more abstract forms of art, but a lot of it comes off as though the artist just crawled too far up their own ass and forgot whatever point it was they were trying to make. Of course, I know that's most likely a small minority of it, but I still feel like I see it way too often.

I don't feel like the piece in the OP falls under that banner though, from what I've read of the artist she has a pointed and clear intent behind each performance she does, and doesn't shy away from explaining the process behind it. Whether or not you think that's just bs is up to you obv. Here's her discussing a more recent piece she did called The Artist is Present:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Qj__s8mNU

I do think a lot of modern and abstract art is pretentious but I don't get that vibe here, especially after hearing how thoughtful she is in the approach behind each performance. Basically, it seems sincere, and that is my metric for good art in this context.
 
This actually reminds me of something similar that I came across just recently: Extremely NSFW as well, basically porn

Now, I don't really care or understand what the point of it is, or what she got out of it, but what I see present in both of these cases is how quickly morals and to some extent compassion fall by the wayside when you have a willing participant, or by extension, a participant who you deem to be willing.
Her nipples look like when you roll playdoh between your hands.
 
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