• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

NT Analogue announces Super NT

leburn98

Member
Jun 9, 2016
166
0
0
Assuming that Kevtris jailbreaks this as well, I hope he continues developing and eventually releases the cart adapters he was working on for the NT Mini and eventually makes them available for the Super NT as well.

I've been hoping for a FPGA-based Retron 5 like device for a while now. Multiple systems that play accurately on system with cart support would be great.

For those unaware, here is his video for the cart adapters for the NT Mini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmQ_IGoJHLY
 

Nerdkiller

Membeur
Aug 9, 2013
7,329
0
0
Ireland
Not sure why people are so hung up on this not having Analog outputs, if you want analog output save yourself some money and just get a proper SNES console
Pretty much this. A SNES plus some HD Retrovision cables or a scart lead or whatever will do you just fine.
And miss out on the benefits the Super Nt has to offer? Naaa. Like I said in a previous post, it isn't just another way to play on an old telly or monitor, but perhaps the best way.

Very excited about this! Though I wonder what a Genesis by them would be like? I'd like to imagine something with multiple cartridge slots like a Genesis slot, Master System slot and 32x slot. Then it would have the necessary port on the bottom so you can plug in a Sega CD and use it.
Don't forget the Master System card slot.

Also *Mega Drive. Only Mega Drive. *complains about Yank naming schemes for a full 20 minutes*
 

Jinto

Member
Sep 10, 2013
1,164
0
355
Nice! Sooner than expected.

I kind of want a premium version to match my NT Mini, but I understand why the decided to go in this direction.
 

CharlesDangus

Member
Sep 28, 2012
119
0
0
Very excited about this! Though I wonder what a Genesis by them would be like? I'd like to imagine something with multiple cartridge slots like a Genesis slot, Master System slot and 32x slot. Then it would have the necessary port on the bottom so you can plug in a Sega CD and use it.
I don't think this is likely.

The Sega CD outputs its own analog audio, but i think Sega CD audio can be output through the Genesis (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if any Sega CD games take advantage of the Genesis hardware itself, because the Sega CD is basically just another Genesis with its own Motorolla 68k. The 32X takes the AV out from the Genesis and outputs its own analog video that mixes layers processed by the Genesis and layers processed by the 32X. This kind of neuters the whole allure of an HDMI solution. I imagine it would be a nightmare making sure the Genesis FPGA is in sync with the Sega CD and 32X and passes data back and forth correctly. I actually asked Kevtris about this and he said to not expect any action on SCD and 32X for the forseeable future.

TLDR I don't think this will happen until the entire Sega sandwich Genesis/CD/32X can be implemented entirely in FPGA. I imagine it'd be much easier to debug when you're in control of the entire sandwich than only being in control of the Genesis and having it interact with the 32X and CD which you don't control.
 

cacophony555

Member
Dec 5, 2014
150
3
0
240p -> 1080p -> 4k
or
240p -> 720p -> 4k

The latter may look nicer since it would be doing integer scales at both steps.
1080p 5x by 6x looks much better on nt mini due to integer scale with accurate looking pixel aspect (plus cuts out overscan cruft and fills the screen)
 
Dec 10, 2014
11,098
14
310
Not sure why people are so hung up on this not having Analog outputs, if you want analog output save yourself some money and just get a proper SNES console
cause it's a retro console and i want them to offer it retro options? lol
i mean they made their name by offering original hardware with high end components. is it too much not to expect the same? if they're offering 100% compatiblity it would make sense to want analogue outputs for those who love pvm/bvm solutions.

they already explained if enough ppl want it they'll do a limited edition to include rgb output.
it'll be cool to see this jailbroken and see what nice 16-bit offerings that can be used. pretty excited
 

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Aug 27, 2013
6,334
1
0
I have a very nice SNES set up now, but if the jailbreak firmware somehow supports like SA-1 titles and other cartridge chip titles off the SD card I would totally buy this.
 

CharlesDangus

Member
Sep 28, 2012
119
0
0
I have a very nice SNES set up now, but if the jailbreak firmware somehow supports like SA-1 titles and other cartridge chip titles off the SD card I would totally buy this.
Kevtris showed off an SA-1 dev ROM cart on a stream with My Life in Gaming, so I assume he's covering that. I haven't heard anything about SuperFX though.

Edit: It wouldn't be unprecedented as he implemented all the expansion audio chips and mappers for the NT Mini NES core.
 

polyh3dron

Banned
Jan 14, 2007
41,965
3
0
Los Angeles, CA
Not sure why people are so hung up on this not having Analog outputs, if you want analog output save yourself some money and just get a proper SNES console
I already have a proper SNES console with a SD2SNES. This has the potential of being jailbroken and having a lot more FPGA cores added to it, as well as the capability to run ROMs straight off of the SD card. Running real FPGA simulations of the NES, SNES, PC Engine, Genesis, possibly even the Neo Geo... That would be fucking amazing to do if the thing had analog output. It'd be indistinguishable from playing on the real hardware, controller notwithstanding.
 

Lettuce

Member
Mar 25, 2005
5,143
2
0
downloads.khinsider.com
And miss out on the benefits the Super Nt has to offer? Naaa. Like I said in a previous post, it isn't just another way to play on an old telly or monitor, but perhaps the best way.
What Benefits are you referring to? as the only benefit (where analog signal is concerned) with this system over a proper snes console is the possibility of more cores being released in which case the Analog NT does this already (and will do anything the Super NT will do thanks to it using the same chip) so if you want to stump up another $300 just for analog outputs or get a snes console for £50!?
 

Lettuce

Member
Mar 25, 2005
5,143
2
0
downloads.khinsider.com
I already have a proper SNES console with a SD2SNES. This has the potential of being jailbroken and having a lot more FPGA cores added to it, as well as the capability to run ROMs straight off of the SD card..
See above

cause it's a retro console and i want them to offer it retro options? lol
i mean they made their name by offering original hardware with high end components. is it too much not to expect the same? if they're offering 100% compatiblity it would make sense to want analogue outputs for those who love pvm/bvm solutions.
But the whole beauty of the Analog NT was the original NES console only had awful compisite video and involved a fairly length mod to get RGB out of the system!. The Analog NT gave you RGB video built in (but at a hefty price) as the original SNES console already has RGB out of the box then its a bit of a moot point. Seriously if you want to use a CRT then just get a actual SNES console not sure why anyone would get this is that was there main aim when the SNES console does everything you want already at a fraction of the price
 
Dec 10, 2014
11,098
14
310
See above



But the whole beauty of the Analog NT was the original NES console only had awful compisite video and involved a fairly length mod to get RGB out of the system!. The Analog NT gave you RGB video built in (but at a hefty price) as the orignal SNES console already has RGB out of the box then its a bit of a moot point
if i didn't have a rgb modded nes, i would've sprung for the NT.
as you know from the retro threads, i have a SNES 1-chip RGB to a Sony BVM but still waited for a 16-bit NT to see the possibilities of what it could offer. jailbroken
i would like to see what can be offered vs. the NT mini. if it's the same capabilities then yes, there's no point.
anyways, i'm not interested unless it has options to hook up to a CRT as well as HDMI. sorry, but my kuro lags and don't like using it with an upscaler.

and as Chacranajxy said, no 240p = not worth it.
 

grim-tales

Member
Oct 20, 2012
2,403
1
360
I'm swaying towards buying this instead of the SNES classic if I can use original carts with it. I don't have Super Mario RPG though (and I'm in PAL land, which means large black borders on all games - the Super NT wouldnt "convert" PAL to 60Hz/NTSC right?)
 
Dec 10, 2014
11,098
14
310
Not same chip. It's in the same family of chip, but a much more powerful version.
that's good news, then it'll be worth waiting to see what it can do. imagine neogeo running of that in 240p? exciting!

and then will cross fingers for a limited edition analogue version.
 

Lettuce

Member
Mar 25, 2005
5,143
2
0
downloads.khinsider.com
if i didn't have a rgb modded nes, i would've sprung for the NT.
as you know from the retro threads, i have a SNES 1-chip RGB to a Sony BVM but still waited for a 16-bit NT to see the possibilities of what it could offer. jailbroken
i would like to see what can be offered vs. the NT mini. if it's the same capabilities then yes, there's no point.
anyways, i'm not interested unless it has options to hook up to a CRT as well as HDMI. sorry, but my kuro lags and don't like using it with an upscaler.

and as Chacranajxy said, no 240p = not worth it.
Have you considered the OSSC for connection to your HD TV when needed?

Maybe they'll release a Super NT XL later that has analog output if there enough demand but then expect it to be a similar price to the Analog NT, in a way im bummed about this not having analog output for a completely different reason, in that we wont see a device like the Hi-Def NES for the SNES to mod our original SNES consoles
 
Dec 10, 2014
11,098
14
310
Have you considered the OSSC for connection to your HD TV when needed?
of course, it's not the upscaler, it's the TV itself that introduces lag. if you look back. all my nes playing initially was off a 60" pioneer KURO until i got a BVM and rgb modded nes. never going back. the lag is substantially noticeable on the KURO without an external scaler. (i play mostly shmups)
 

Nazo

Member
Sep 13, 2015
969
0
0
Is this actually something to be excited about or is this another “hey look at this cool retro console that uses stolen code or some other dubious shit” situation? Because I’ed love to get this, as I never had an SNES growing up.
 

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Mar 31, 2009
21,807
2
755
Is this actually something to be excited about or is this another ”hey look at this cool retro console that uses stolen code or some other dubious shit" situation? Because I'ed love to get this, as I never had an SNES growing up.
It's FPGA so there's no stolen code to use afaik. pgate1 and jwdonal's implementations are the only ones I am aware of, and are either closed source or unreleased, so they've put serious work into this.
 
Dec 10, 2014
11,098
14
310
Maybe they'll release a Super NT XL later that has analog output if there enough demand but then expect it to be a similar price to the Analog NT, in a way im bummed about this not having analog output for a completely different reason, in that we wont see a device like the Hi-Def NES for the SNES to mod our original SNES consoles
yeah, i posted the same thing earlier in the retro threads. i think we're thinking in the same ballpark. i'm guessing it will be about 450-500 for an analogue solution.

if it can replace a SD2SNES as well as run more powerful stuff than the NT mini, it'll be way worth the cost and may be the ultimate machine =)
 

mrk8885

Banned
Aug 14, 2016
569
0
0
I guess I’m still a little confused. If you’re buying this because of no emulation/perfect recreation of SNES game experience, then youre probably more sensitive to the problems emulators introduce.

So then why want a jail broken system emulating old consoles?
(Asking about the kevtris stuff)

Not trying to be a jerk. Honestly. Just curious about the mentality of buying this more expensive unit to avoid emulation but then installing emulators.
 

Nazo

Member
Sep 13, 2015
969
0
0
It's FPGA so there's no stolen code to use afaik. pgate1 and jwdonal's implementations are the only ones I am aware of, and are either closed source or unreleased, so they've put serious work into this.
That’s cool. I might actually consider getting this. My local comic shop has a shit ton of SNES games for dirt cheap so I’d have plenty to choose from.
 

Aeana

Member
Jul 10, 2006
42,062
2
0
I guess I’m still a little confused. If you’re buying this because of no emulation/perfect recreation of SNES game experience, then youre probably more sensitive to the problems emulators introduce.

So then why want a jail broken system emulating old consoles?
There would be no software emulation involved at any point. It would be the same for the additional systems supported by the jailbreak.

Here is a post that explains the difference between emulation and what these FPGA-based systems do: http://my-cool-projects.blogspot.com/2016/03/emulation-vs-fpga.html
 

polyh3dron

Banned
Jan 14, 2007
41,965
3
0
Los Angeles, CA
I guess I'm still a little confused. If you're buying this because of no emulation/perfect recreation of SNES game experience, then youre probably more sensitive to the problems emulators introduce.

So then why want a jail broken system emulating old consoles?
(Asking about the kevtris stuff)

Not trying to be a jerk. Honestly. Just curious about the mentality of buying this more expensive unit to avoid emulation but then installing emulators.
Because FPGA simulation is not emulation.
 

DOT DASH DOT

Member
Aug 26, 2015
1,648
0
0
Won't it have any noticeable artifacts or delay?

I put a thread up about emulation lag the other day, and it's something I really dislike about a lot of emulators, but I was surprised at how good the Snes mini felt, definitely the most responsive lag wise, so the Nt will be even better:)
 

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Mar 31, 2009
21,807
2
755
yeah, i posted the same thing earlier in the retro threads. i think we're thinking in the same ballpark. i'm guessing it will be about 450-500 for an analogue solution.

if it can replace a SD2SNES as well as run more powerful stuff than the NT mini, it'll be way worth the cost and may be the ultimate machine =)
Are they planning on being able to simulate special chips?
*edit*, read up on how this was done for nes version and see it was an aftermarket thing. I'll hold fire on buying.

I guess I’m still a little confused. If you’re buying this because of no emulation/perfect recreation of SNES game experience, then youre probably more sensitive to the problems emulators introduce.

So then why want a jail broken system emulating old consoles?
Eliminate as much lag as possible, ability to use original games on hdmi input to a modern tv, higher accuracy.
 

Weevilone

Member
Nov 11, 2011
3,473
0
0
of course, it's not the upscaler, it's the TV itself that introduces lag. if you look back. all my nes playing initially was off a 60" pioneer KURO until i got a BVM and rgb modded nes. never going back. the lag is substantially noticeable on the KURO without an external scaler. (i play mostly shmups)
Kuro wasn't exactly low latency. If I recall, mine was ~64ms or so. You can do a lot better since.

Edit: To be clear, I don't care what you play SNES games on, and it certainly sounds like you are all set anyways. Just wanted to comment on this, as for all the great things the old Pioneer displays did, low latency wasn't one. It was ok for its time, but that time has passed.
 
May 6, 2014
5,438
0
0
Pre-ordered. For some time now I've been looking into the various ways to get satisfactory HD output from my SNES, but every method I've found has either been not good enough or too much effort/money to bother with. This thing seems like a one-stop solution to all my problems. Analog output isn't a concern, as I'm not interested in any kind of preservation method that requires me to lug around a CRT for the rest of my life.

I can also stop giving a shit about picking up an SNES Classic, which is nice.
 

mrk8885

Banned
Aug 14, 2016
569
0
0
Eliminate as much lag as possible, ability to use original games on hdmi input to a modern tv, higher accuracy.


No I get it re: SNES. I think it sounds awesome for SNES. I’m more asking about the jailbreaking/playing older game aspect. Or are you telling me there’s way to get older systems carts working on these?
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
May 28, 2014
2,038
0
360
No I get it re: SNES. I think it sounds awesome for SNES. I’m more asking about the jailbreaking/playing older game aspect. Or are you telling me there’s way to get older systems carts working on these?
The jailbroken firmware would be using the same simulation, just running from a rom rather than a cart. You can understand why a company like Analogue would shy away from that.

It is functionally identical. Assuming kevtris is able to get stuff like cart expansion chips like Super FX in there. That is what we are waiting to find out.
 

polyh3dron

Banned
Jan 14, 2007
41,965
3
0
Los Angeles, CA
No I get it re: SNES. I think it sounds awesome for SNES. I’m more asking about the jailbreaking/playing older game aspect. Or are you telling me there’s way to get older systems carts working on these?
Not the carts (without an adapter like the ones Kevtris has shown off), but if it's running a ROM off of a SD card, there won't be any difference. It's still not emulation.
 

wonzo

Banned
Sep 10, 2006
19,995
0
0
cool, wonder if this'll support all the snes enhancement chips out of the box or if you'll need the carts/expansion fpga unit for that stuff
 

mrk8885

Banned
Aug 14, 2016
569
0
0
There would be no software emulation involved at any point. It would be the same for the additional systems supported by the jailbreak.

Here is a post that explains the difference between emulation and what these FPGA-based systems do: http://my-cool-projects.blogspot.com/2016/03/emulation-vs-fpga.html


Very interesting read. Thank you. I guess I’m just not knowledgeable enough in this area to understand these types of differences, and my eye certainly isn’t discerning enough to be bothered by emulation hiccups.

But I totally get the appeal.