BlueXImpulse
Banned
It's funny really.
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Nvidia bans HardwareUnboxed from receiving review samples
- Thread starter DemonCleaner
- Start date
It's funny really.
Jon Neu
Banned
Aidah
Member
You should cover all the features in a review for something like this. It's up to the viewer to decide what's important to them and what's not. I watched a review from them recently and had to look somewhere else for a more complete review.
I don't see anything wrong with Nvidia having some sort of response to that, but I don't like Nvidia's response or how they handed it, the tactic is trash.
I don't see anything wrong with Nvidia having some sort of response to that, but I don't like Nvidia's response or how they handed it, the tactic is trash.
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Marcus Aurelius
Banned
Nvidia is a shit company (and I own an RTX card) when it comes to these things.
How hard is it to admit that? And to be fair most are
How hard is it to admit that? And to be fair most are
rofif
Banned
They are sending cards to REVIEW them. Not opinionate on.
Truth is, I use DLSS and ray tracing. It's not marketing gimmick... but 6800xt?! Let's drool all over it. so much good
BattleScar
Banned
As they've stated above they still get AIBs and they can just buy the cards to review.
The only reason manufacturers seed products to reviewers in advanced, is to generate as much media buzz as they can around their products at launch. If they're not seeding them to reviewers who don't hit the marketing notes as they'd like, they're taking those reviewers out of the picture at launch, which is an attempt to silence them.
I cannot see how this is a good thing.
Maybe you disagree with HUB downplaying RTX, but even then they still include a handful of these benchmarks in their review, so I don't understand how you can say they ignore it. They've been benchmarking Battlefield V and Shadow of the Tomb Raider RTX since fucking Turing. Their 3080 review covers Wolfenstein: Young Blood RTX Their 3060 Ti review covers Watch Dog's: Legion RTX. So it's not like they're unilaterally ignoring RTX or DLSS.
Perhaps their conclusion doesn't place such a heavy weight on the value that RTX may bring, but as a reviewer they are entitled to come to whatever conclusion they like and hold whatever opinion they like about the value of these extra features.
If that's enough to get you cut off, then there's a problem.
Rikkori
Member
So what's the difference between paid advertising and a review by your logic? Since the company can just decide what you show? Think.
MadchesterManc
Member
It's not that they don't want to review the tech though, it's coming in a separate in-depth RTX/DLSS video
The rasterization video they have now benchmarks pretty much everything from a GTX 1650/RX 5500 to an RTX 3090/RX 6900XT instead, they usually do these large GPU benchmarks for new games first. Nvidia fanboys here are just so dense they haven't realised this yet.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
I agree with Nvidia's decision.
The argument that ray tracing is not a considerable factor in regard to reviewing a graphics card because most games do not support it is bollocks; obviously most games do not support it, because most games were made before hardware support for ray tracing was implemented into graphics cards.
Hence, the basis for determining whether or not ray tracing is a considerable factor should be the percentage of new games that support it, since new graphics cards are released for new titles - not old ones.
Hence, since most of the newest titles support ray tracing and most upcoming titles will support ray tracing, it should be a considerable factor in the reviews of graphics cards.
The argument that ray tracing is not a considerable factor in regard to reviewing a graphics card because most games do not support it is bollocks; obviously most games do not support it, because most games were made before hardware support for ray tracing was implemented into graphics cards.
Hence, the basis for determining whether or not ray tracing is a considerable factor should be the percentage of new games that support it, since new graphics cards are released for new titles - not old ones.
Hence, since most of the newest titles support ray tracing and most upcoming titles will support ray tracing, it should be a considerable factor in the reviews of graphics cards.
BattleScar
Banned
It's not even about AMD.
Hardware unboxed shit all over AMD for their supply issues and the fact that AIB models are $150+ over MSRP to the point where they're considering raising the baseline price when doing cost-per-frame analysis.
rofif
Banned
Think about what? It's not an opinion piece, it's a review with free sample given by nvidia.
And if it's their opinion? It's shit. Dlss and rt are real and here in newest games.
Would You like Your product, that You are trying to sell to be half assed reviewed? That is unfair
Marcus Aurelius
Banned
So you're okay with Nvidia "banning" them?
Kenpachii
Member
It's nvidia they ban aibs from selling amd cards
These guys don't understand the basic thing here. They are all useful idiots for those outlets. the moment u don't fall in line u get banned. And they all accept it as they accept the handouts perfectly fine.
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rofif
Banned
well yes ?! Whatever?
Why send them more products if if they will misrepresent them
Jon Neu
Banned
For them.
A technical review should show how the GPU handles the most important technical features.
If it doesn't because that paints AMD in a bad light, then that's not a technical review and the reviewers aren't trustworthy whatsoever.
BattleScar
Banned
If I was selling a product, I wouldn't attempt to dictate what features reviewers want to cover, because to me that's a matter of integrity.
If I have any faith in my product's value at all I would allow it to sell on its merits and those merits will undoubtedly be highlighted when all different reviews and publications are out.
Can't decide
Member
I was going to make a car comparison too. I was thinking it's like Top Gear/The Grand Tour being sent an offroad 4x4 to try out and only testing it's city and highway capabilities, then crying publicly about it because the manufacturer doesn't see the point in sending them free cars anymore.
Who's silenced? They can buy cards and shit all over them as much as they want.
BattleScar
Banned
What makes you say they're ignoring the features because it paints AMD in a bad light?
That's a pretty bold assertion.
They've been consistent on their stance around RTX since Turing was released, i.e back when Nvidia had a lead on all fronts; power efficiency, rasterisation performance and of course RTX and DLSS.
DLSS 1 was universally panned as shite. But DLSS2 has been praised.
STARSBarry
Gold Member
I will put this out here first, I am a patreon supporter of hardware unboxed, so I am financially connected to them so it could colour my opinion.
However while I do agree with some of the voices that say they should include Ray tracing preformance especially now that AMD's cards also contain the feature. I do think Nvidia not providing them with founder models of cards is a step too far.
I will bring up the question of RT preformance benchmarks going forward with them on the patreon channel, however as them changing there reviews to include this now could be seen as "bending the knee" I dont hold out much hope for this, However as I primarily support them for there fantastic monitor reviews this was always secondary for me.
However while I do agree with some of the voices that say they should include Ray tracing preformance especially now that AMD's cards also contain the feature. I do think Nvidia not providing them with founder models of cards is a step too far.
I will bring up the question of RT preformance benchmarks going forward with them on the patreon channel, however as them changing there reviews to include this now could be seen as "bending the knee" I dont hold out much hope for this, However as I primarily support them for there fantastic monitor reviews this was always secondary for me.
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BattleScar
Banned
They're testing the cars as 90% of jackasses who buy SUVs use them, as soccer-mom transporters. Which of course they're perfectly entitled to do.
Dude they said they will make another video focusing on that.... i just saw the video.
Can't decide
Member
This is a privilege and not an entitlement though.
BattleScar
Banned
Aye, but a privilege for whom?
Should reviewers just become PR mouthpieces for companies to retain the "privilege" of reviewing a product before the embargo?
At what point does having early access to review samples constitute a benefit in kind?
On that basis we should really speaking do away with launch day reviews entirely across the board. I would certainly be okay with that.
RedVIper
Banned
Nvidia isn't obligated to give them review copies lol
Kenpachii
Member
And now u understand why even review sites always give solid numbers to specific outlets on high profile titles because they are afraid to lose there income through ads from them, review copy's and events and fall behind massively against others.
That's exactly what they are just mouth pieces for those company's.
Nvidia didn't like them shitting on rtx and dlss, so they pulled there early access towards the hardware which means they will have to get a card themselves on launch day which means they will fall behind other outlets that do not aka they kill there own business.
Welcome to the review industry.
And this is why i say, whenever a company has any financial relationship or beneficial relationship with the product they review they are simple useless. And u can bet your arse he will crawl back straight into nvidia's ass like every single company does.
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Skifi28
Member
I didn't realise that getting a free review sample means they also get to decide how you do your review. Usually doesn't work this way. Journalists get free copies of games ahead of time for review, can you imagine "banning" them because they didn't try new game plus or didn't play the game a certain way? This will just make me question nvidia GPU reviews from now on.
IShowUBasics
Member
The absolute state of nvidia. Went from "real 4k" (because of consoles doing "fake" 4k) to "MUH Supersampling DLSS is important".
roosnam1980
Gold Member
hardware unboxed is pretty fair and straight forward in their reviews, wonder who else will get the ban hammer
sobaka770
Banned
Ban is such a strong word. I'm sure they got a letter saying that since the product is misrepresented they will no longer provide review copies.
Which, you know what - is fair. RTX + DLSS is what Nvidia sees as future not just pure rasterizing and if a publication doesn't even bother reviewing it, it only advantages AMD for no good reason.
I'm sure they can pony up the money to get the cards themselves in that case if it's a case of journalistic integrity.
Which, you know what - is fair. RTX + DLSS is what Nvidia sees as future not just pure rasterizing and if a publication doesn't even bother reviewing it, it only advantages AMD for no good reason.
I'm sure they can pony up the money to get the cards themselves in that case if it's a case of journalistic integrity.
regawdless
Banned
Gaming companies have been selecting which outlet gets copies of their games for ages. It's a normal practice, for any product. Games, GPUs, phones etc. You have to make a list who gets review samples and who doesn't.
If I was an Nvidia manager, why would I decide to give free GPUs to a site that excludes THE main feature and differentiator of my product from their reviews? I certainly wouldn't.
Imagine a review site would exclude HDR from their LG OLED review, because it's very niche, most people watch normal TV and don't use it. It's just very unprofessional to exclude main features. Those cards are named RTX for a reason.
TyphoonStruggle
Member
Fixed.
Hardware Unboxed just trashed their own reputation for stirring up Twitter controversy. HU should do everyone a favor and apologize.
roosnam1980
Gold Member
dont follow tweets that much , what did they do there?
MadchesterManc
Member
Funnily enough this does happen with some pre-release game review copies, at least the bigger games. I've had to sign an NDA or two before that actually had a list of do's & don'ts to follow. To be honest they weren't bad enough to effect the review, but for the outlets doing AAA games I can only assume their requirements to adhere to would be more limiting.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
Imagine spending billions of dollars in research and development to create and implement a new feature into your next product, only for a reviewer to undermine that new feature in some of their reviews or outright ignore it some of their other ones.
Nvidia was completely justified.
Nvidia was completely justified.
AquaticSquirrel
Member
I keep seeing this narrative emerging that HU didn't test with RT or DLSS on reviews of Nvidia cards. But that is simply not true.
3080 Review timestamped to RT section:
Here is their 3060 review timestamped to RT section:
So to say they didn't show the cards with RT or DLSS is simply false. They also showed some RT comparisons in their 6800XT/6900XT reviews too.
What Nvidia/their fanboys are annoyed about is HU not spending huge amounts of their reviews focusing solely on RT performance and not hailing it as the second coming. The fact that people in this thread are actually cheering for this as if Nvidia or any other company have the right to dictate the content/opinion of a review is laughable.
Not to mention Harware Unboxed did an entire video examining just Ray Tracing and DLSS with the 3080 vs 2080ti.
3080 Review timestamped to RT section:
Here is their 3060 review timestamped to RT section:
So to say they didn't show the cards with RT or DLSS is simply false. They also showed some RT comparisons in their 6800XT/6900XT reviews too.
What Nvidia/their fanboys are annoyed about is HU not spending huge amounts of their reviews focusing solely on RT performance and not hailing it as the second coming. The fact that people in this thread are actually cheering for this as if Nvidia or any other company have the right to dictate the content/opinion of a review is laughable.
Not to mention Harware Unboxed did an entire video examining just Ray Tracing and DLSS with the 3080 vs 2080ti.
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AquaticSquirrel
Member
"Hardware Unboxed just shot themselves in the foot! I don't know how much the rest of you know about Tech Reviewer culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it..."
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RedVIper
Banned
Reviewers just don't have the right to receive free stuff either.
I'm sick of all these journalists and reviewers that are essentially just propaganda pieces for companies because they're completely dependent on them sending them free stuff.
Nvidia doesn't get to dictate what he says, and he doesn't get to dictate who they send free shit tom and ideally that number would be 0.
GeeseGoose
Member
Imagine how amazing reviews would be if you applied that logic to everything...
"This hybrid has 2 engines but because non-hybrid doesn't, we will ignore the extra engine.... Wtf the hybrid costs more than the non-hybrid for the same power!!!"
"This hybrid has 2 engines but because non-hybrid doesn't, we will ignore the extra engine.... Wtf the hybrid costs more than the non-hybrid for the same power!!!"
Damian black
Member
I do watch them and they are not biased. I assume not many of you watch them if you actually have come to that conclusion.
They did criticize amd, nvidia and intel in equal measure. Not sure what the fuck you're all smoking.
They did criticize amd, nvidia and intel in equal measure. Not sure what the fuck you're all smoking.
K.S v2.0
Banned
Ok so, put it this way.
If I'm a hardware manufacturer that's trying to develop hardware specifically to push the presence and utilization of a feature set (RTX)... and you request hardware samples to review, and then purposefully DON'T review the feature set I am trying to push... Why in the holy hell am I giving you hardware in the first place?
AquaticSquirrel
Member
I agree with the general thrust of your statement, the fact that tons of the hardware/tech/game reviewers are dependent on the product manufacturer and have certain restrictions/guidelines and various other things likely has a significant affect on the general review/opinions presented to some degree.
I would personally, much like you prefer that it never happened and reviewers bought their products day one to review like everyone else. Unfortunately that is not the reality that we live in and as long as the majority are willing to take the free review samples ahead of release date it means this is never going to change as those channels/reviewers will be more competitive and get more traffic than those who don't, which over time will shrink the channels/viewership of the dissenting channels eventually taking them out of the game in a worst case scenario.
But that is kind of separate to what is happening here where the market leader is trying to damage an independent reviewer by removing previously granted access to their hardware for not giving favourable enough reviews or not pushing whatever narrative or feature as much as desired. That is unquestionably a shitty move and even if Nvidia backtrack on this due to the backlash/bad PR this still acts as a warning to others/smaller channels without the pull or size of say Hardware Unboxed to toe the line or else.
And yeah I agree Steve doesn't get to dictate that he receive samples from Nvidia, nor that anyone else does/doesn't, but then I don't see anywhere where he is trying to dictate who can and can't receive Nvidia review samples so it is kind of a moot point.
Irobot82
Member
HW is 100% correct. RT is only in a handful of games and tanks performance. It's not ready. Their own poll showed over 70% of their viewers said Raster was more important than RT.
Edit: Beyond whether you think HU is correct or not. Nvidia "should your editorial direction change." is fucking gross.
Edit: Beyond whether you think HU is correct or not. Nvidia "should your editorial direction change." is fucking gross.
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MadchesterManc
Member
I don't think they ignore it, usually always spoken of when required. Folk probably have an issue with them not glorifying it.
Isn't this situation kinda the opposite of this sentiment tho? Nvidia have blacklisted HB until their editorial direction changes because they released a benchmark video that didn't showcase Nvidia GPU's in a way they wanted, even tho an RTX/DLSS focused video is releasing tomorrow. Luckily HB aren't financially reliant on Nvidia freebies so don't have to tow the RTX marketing line.
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