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[USC-fan]

That's the thing - I think anyone who buys Titan now, can pretty much sit back and relax for the next 5 years, safe in the knowledge that his graphics card surpasses PS4 by a comfortable enough margin that he can run any game in 1080p and at better settings than possible on consoles, as long as PS4 is a top tier platform.

Powerful GPUs effectively no longer become outdated, thanks to consoles. On the flip side there is not much progress in visual fidelity until the next "next generation" hits.

Sure if the goal post just stop moving. The problem with no matter how powerful that dx9 gpu from when the x360 launch it cannot play bf3 or any other game that needs dx10.


So you are only good until dx12 is anything higher is dx11.1 is announce.

The real reason for the damage control from nvidia is for the first time both consoles run on the same hardware as PC. Now the ps4 is pitched as a easy to developed for PC developers. You have game developer just trashing windows 8. Now the nightmare of simcity.... I see a lot of PC dev moving to consoles. Way more money to be made...

 

[teo72]

Why do we waste time arguing. We will most likely never be able to agree. I suspect that no matter how many games are presented at E3 with better looking graphics compared to today's Pc games, PC gamers will likely never admit it... They have spendt too much money on their rig(my assumption).

Just as PS3 fans (myself included) have a very hard time admitting that the xbox360, with about half the gflops of the PS3, more often than not produce as good and sometimes better looking games compared to the PS3.

Why? Simple, the xbox360 has better architecture, except the dvd drive, compared to the PS3. Ps3 has the same problem as pc's. time-bottleneck from CPU to GPU, due to sequencial nature of the design and 2 memory pools. Where as in the Xbox360, the CPU and GPU work in the same memorypool simultaniously, thereby getting more done in less time, so it needs less power to do the same job.

 

[sholvaco]

Disclaimer: I am not a tech guy.

In the latest Orbis Vgleak, I remember people mentioning the "ring" system may enforce the devs to draw an inflexible line to divide up the shared pool for GPU and CPU related tasks (in a single level I suppose). In essence it'll the same as PS3 save the fact that devs get to choose this hard ratio. Is there any truth to this?

Also, when the CPU and GPU concurrently access the UMA ram, can the bandwidth division be simply a matter of subtraction (i.e. if the CPU is using 16GB/sec then the GPU at that moment can access data at 176-16 = 160GB/sec)?

Very much doubt they both access RAM concurrently, they are most likely time sharing the access.

 

[alexandros]

I suspect that no matter how many games are presented at E3 with better looking graphics compared to today's Pc games, PC gamers will likely never admit it...

Why is it so hard for some people to understand that next-gen multiplatform games will look even better on PC?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Seeing how those games will be developed on PC in the first place, I don't think that will become a problem.

Not just that, any multiplatform titles will also need to work on Durango.

You guys really see devs leading on PC ?
I see them going Durango and scaling up which why people should hope it better that what the leaks saying .

Why is it so hard for some people to understand that next-gen multiplatform games will look even better on PC?

I don't think anyone should debate that , it's if they willing to pay the price .

 

[NemesisPrime]

Stop talking about things you clearly don't understand.

Wow... classic. I think you are not getting it. Most of his point are valid.

You guys really see devs leading on PC?

Almost certainly so...

 

[teo72]

Why is it so hard for some people to understand that next-gen multiplatform games will look even better on PC?

I can easely admit it when I see a better looking game on PC, but I will never assume like you, that this will allways be the case (If in fact it is this you claim) BTW you just proved my point. I'm NOT

 

[Perkel]

Yeah, CPUs are really not something anyone with a decent gaming PC should be worried about. Unless you want to play ports of 30 FPS games at 60 FPS, you'll probably need to go a bit upmarket for that -- but that's absolutely a case of "you get what you pay for".

Not just that, any multiplatform titles will also need to work on Durango.

I think key word is "right now".

GPU side of things scale well when you are creating multiplatform titles but CPU code doesn't. Just drop resolution, lower framerate and voila !

If you run AI on CPU you can't just make it worse because it will mean that you need redesign game same as many other things that are calculated in CPU.

We are constrained by console games even if those buffed ports like BF3.

 

[iceatcs]

Why is it so hard for some people to understand that next-gen multiplatform games will look even better on PC?

Well all of the time look more clear and run better.

I think there are slight few are look better on PC, but at the ending gen of course will be more.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Almost certainly so...

Why would you say that if you don't mind me asking .
Consoles going to be even easier to program for next gen .

 

[Perkel]

Wow... classic. I think you are not getting it. Most of his point are valid.



Almost certainly so...

Yeah especially GDDR6, XDR2, PS4 uses OpenGL as main API and many other things in that post.

 

[teo72]

Why is it so hard for some people to understand that next-gen multiplatform games will look even better on PC?

I can easely admit it when I see a better looking game on PC, but I will never assume like you, that this will allways be the case (If in fact it is this you claim) BTW you just proved my point. I'm NOT claiming that there will garantied be PS4 games that are graphically superior to PC. All I am claiming is that there is a slight chance they CAN be. Based upon what I understand of the leaked PS4 specs. We will know more about what the PS4 will be able to do, at E3.

 

[erick]

I suspect that no matter how many games are presented at E3 with better looking graphics compared to today's Pc games, PC gamers will likely never admit it... They have spendt too much money on their rig(my assumption).

Xeon E5645 6C/12T 2,4GHz @ 4GHz, air cooling
24GB of 1333MHz DDR3 RAM (6x4GB)
GTX 580 1536MB
2TB HDD
850W Power supply
Silverstone Raven 2 case

All that stuff I bought second-hand, except RAM and PSU. Total budget so far is like 883 EUR.

In my country that's only one Steam Christmas sale's worth of games away from buying a PS3 and the same games at 60 EUR a pop.

 

[Perkel]

Xeon E5645 6C/12T 2,4GHz @ 4GHz, air cooling
24GB of 1333MHz DDR3 RAM (6x4GB)
GTX 580 1536MB
2TB HDD
850W Power supply
Silverstone Raven 2 case

All that stuff I bought second-hand, except RAM and PSU. Total budget so far is like 883 EUR.

In my country that's only one Steam Christmas sale's worth of games away from buying a PS3 and the same games at 60 EUR a pop.

I never get it why when someone type in his spec he must usher there his case.

 

[erick]

I did it to be fair. It is an expensive case.

 

[teo72]

Console games are more expencive than PC games, true. But remember, I do not have to upgrade my hardware every 6 months in order to get decent performance from my games. If you ad up the amount of money you put into your gaming rig in a consoles lifetime, then I think you will find that Ps3/xbox360/wii are quite a bit cheaper, even if you ad the price of the games.

...unless of course you pirate every game you play...

 

[erick]

Console games are more expencive than PC games, true. But remember, I do not have to upgrade my hardware every 6 months in order to get decent performance from my games. If you ad up the amount of money you put into your gaming rig in a consoles lifetime, then I think you will find that Ps3/xbox360/wii are quite a bit cheaper, even if you ad the price of the games.

Oh come on

You really think this PC needs constant upgrading? I've already had it for almost 2 years. Once the PS4 hits I'll just put in a very fast GPU and that's it! I'm set for the new console cycle, probably at around the price of the PS4!

Also, nobody needs to pirate on PC anymore. Steam sales give away games at ridiculous price, for 60 EUR I could buy more than I have time to game through in 6 months easily. And then the next big sale comes.

 

[USC-fan]

Xeon E5645 6C/12T 2,4GHz @ 4GHz, air cooling
24GB of 1333MHz DDR3 RAM (6x4GB)
GTX 580 1536MB
2TB HDD
850W Power supply
Silverstone Raven 2 case

All that stuff I bought second-hand, except RAM and PSU. Total budget so far is like 883 EUR.

In my country that's only one Steam Christmas sale's worth of games away from buying a PS3 and the same games at 60 EUR a pop.

That PC pretty weak compare to the PC talk about in this thread. Ps4 would have no problem out performing that.

You really need a new video card...

 

[teo72]

Oh come on

You really think this PC needs constant upgrading? I've already had it for almost 2 years. Once the PS4 hits I'll just put in a very fast GPU and that's it! I'm set for the new console cycle, probably at around the price of the PS4!

One new GPU for the next 6-8 years... I do not think so. Unless you regard an eventual 5fps as playable.

 

[alexandros]

I don't think anyone should debate that , it's if they willing to pay the price .

I think people are going to be surprised when they realize how low that price will be.

I can easely admit it when I see a better looking game on PC, but I will never assume like you, that this will allways be the case

Let's wait a few months then, we'll know for sure.

 

[MoonLightWave]

One new GPU for the next 6-8 years... I do not think so. Unless you regard an eventual 5fps as playable.

WHAAAT! WHHAAAT! There is a thing called settings. Even if he would have to lower it, it would still look better than console variant and have better performance.

 

[AgentP]

You guys really see devs leading on PC ?
I see them going Durango and scaling up which why people should hope it better that what the leaks saying .

Yes, they will create content on PCs, you cannot "scale up" textures and models, you have to create high res (or high poly ) versions and then "scale down" to meet a lower target. Engines are created for each platform, but the art and content is created independently on PCs by artists.

 

[JonathanPower]

Let's wait a few months then, we'll know for sure.

Yes, I think a nice test will be Watch Dogs.

 

[erick]

One new GPU for the next 6-8 years... I do not think so. Unless you regard an eventual 5fps as playable.

This just begs me to point out that 8800 GTX from 2006 runs Dishonored in Full HD max settings at around 60 fps.

It is now 6+ years old.

By the way, Crysis 2 runs on medium-high settings in Full HD @ 30-40 fps as well! Who knew right?

 

[alexandros]

Console games are more expencive than PC games, true. But remember, I do not have to upgrade my hardware every 6 months in order to get decent performance from my games.

Ah, every now and then it's nice to hear the classics

 

[USC-fan]

Yes, I think a nice test will be Watch Dogs.

No way that built for current Gen and then ported to everything.

 

[Durante]

Let's wait a few months then, we'll know for sure.

Yeah, I think that's really the best response in some of these "discussions".

Wait until we can grab some real framebuffer images from multiplatform titles running on the new consoles and compare them to what we get with FRAPS.

I strongly believe that by mid-2014 console-only gamers will again have lost all interest in PC comparisons.

 

[1st Course]

No way that built for current Gen and then ported to everything.

The opposite actually.

 

[benny_a]

In my country that's only one Steam Christmas sale's worth of games away from buying a PS3 and the same games at 60 EUR a pop.

Wow man. You really do not hide it, do you?

So you count Steam sales but regular sales at retail or PSN, those do not count. It's always MSRP?

 

[Durante]

Wow man. You really do not hide it, do you?

So you count Steam sales but regular sales at retail or PSN, those do not count. It's always MSRP?

I don't think he's that far off. I try to buy all games, PC and console, as cheap as possible, and there's at least a €15 difference per game on average in the purchase price.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Yes, they will create content on PCs, you cannot "scale up" textures and models, you have to create high res (or high poly ) versions and then "scale down" to meet a lower target. Engines are created for each platform, but the art and content is created independently on PCs by artists.

Creating the content on PC is not as the same as it being the lead dev platform .
I mean they already do that this gen but X box 360 is the lead for most games and later on we saw PS3 be lead for some .

I strongly believe that by mid-2014 console-only gamers will again have lost all interest in PC comparisons.

Man you should know better than lol
Come

 

[JonathanPower]

No way that built for current Gen and then ported to everything.

They already showed the game running on a PS4 devkit at the conference.

 

[USC-fan]

Comparing 1st gen launch game built on dev kits without final hardware. Sure this will go well... lol

The opposite actually.

That what they say but if that was the case it wouldn't run on current Gen.

 

[USC-fan]

They already showed the game running on PS4.

When? Because it was running on a PC during the ps4 event.

 

[teo72]

WHAAAT! WHHAAAT! There is a thing called settings. Even if he would have to lower it would still look better than console variant.

Today yes. Today's consoles (PS3, XBOX360 and WII U) is easely beaten by modern PC's. PS3 is 7 years old...

But 7 years from now, when the ps4 is getting ready to be replaced by ps5, then I think you will struggle with running games even on low setting. I'm thinking games like Crysis 5, or whatever the top games 7 years from now will be. 7 years from now, the graphics might look better when you're standing still (in the game), but as soon as you move, I think the framerate will make it pretty much unplayable. While on Ps4, games will still run as smoothly as they will do on launch, and most likely with better gfx compared to lauchtitles.

 

[Lulubop]

Console games are more expencive than PC games, true. But remember, I do not have to upgrade my hardware every 6 months in order to get decent performance from my games. If you ad up the amount of money you put into your gaming rig in a consoles lifetime, then I think you will find that Ps3/xbox360/wii are quite a bit cheaper, even if you ad the price of the games.

...unless of course you pirate every game you play...

You gotta be kidding me with this shit.

 

[NemesisPrime]

Why would you say that if you don't mind me asking .
Consoles going to be even easier to program for next gen .

Since nex gen consoles are basically PCs with fixed hardware, developing on PC is an obvious choice. Better tools, more features and still easier in almost aspects.

 

[teo72]

When? Because it was running on a PC during the ps4 event.

Not PC, devkit, with aproximation hardware.

 

[benny_a]

I don't think he's that far off. I try to buy all games, PC and console, as cheap as possible, and there's at least a €15 difference per game on average in the purchase price.

If you do follow sales. Then you must also be aware of retail sales that had prices that Steam didn't even offer until 6 months into a game's life-cycle.

I also buy all games as cheap as possible and PC games are usually cheaper. But they certainly don't hold the monopoly on sales.

Let's say I bought like 60 games the last 4 years day 1. (It might be a bit lower, but it's approximately correct.)
I never ever paid 60 EUR for a game on launch day.

I find that teo72 poster absolutely silly but based on my checkbook I would absolutely sign a statement that I didn't get my value out of a PC, despite the cheaper game price.

 

[USC-fan]

Not PC, devkit, with aproximation hardware.

He straight said it was running on a PC. Never said anything about dev kit.

 

[Minsc]

Let's wait a few months then, we'll know for sure.

Yes, these discussions are all the same after enough pages and this is the best answer for them imo. If there's something else people want to discuss that hasn't been covered well enough here, I think the best course of action is a new thread focused on that issue. This one's run its course now and is quite sidetracked. And people would be wise to not bring tired arguments of piracy, 6 month upgrade costs and other strawmen to future threads.