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Nvidia shows neural texture compression cutting VRAM usage from 6.5GB to 970MB

This isn't something new. We had tech demos in the PS360 era where a scene where a mere KBs using this kind of procedural generation. It was a thread on GAF even. Obviously after 20 years the technique has improved but the result is the same: you're trading RAM allocation for processing power. So something very useful for nVidia customers.
 
To be fair with RT, Nvidia's homework was heavily based on RT research (which existed before Nvidia even exited since RT predates rasterization).

Ray tracing is basically maths and predates any GPU vendors by decades

Of course Nvidia didn't invent ray tracing, nor AI, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything really. Their responsibility is to make these technologies possible on gaming GPUs, have a benefit to rendering and in real-time. And they dominate the field there.

Path tracing in gaming is super hard and most peoples didn't think it would be done, let alone going from Quake 2 RTX to Cyberpunk 2077 in such a short span. While Nvidia didn't invent the concept of path tracing, the implementation to real time rendering is a huge task. If it was easy then what are AMD and Intel doing?
 
So you didn't read the rest of my post?

I'll say it again: it's perfectly fine to acknowledge Nvidia's good work in the GPU and gaming sphere but also say fuck nvidia as a whole for their participation in fucking up the world tech economy right now. So as someone who has always bought an Nvidia GPU and will continue to, I still reserve the right to say fuck nvidia whenever I think they're being a shitty company overall.

Humans are capable of nuanced thoughts and take like that. Put me on ignore if you don't like that I can both consume nvidia GPUs and say Fuck nvidia in the same breath.
There's insane, overwhelming demand for their products for AI/datacenters/etc. to the point where the entire semiconductor industry can't supply enough to meet demand. What do you expect them to do? Keep their focus on $250 gaming GPUs? Maybe you should direct some of your anger at AMD + Intel for failing to compete.
 
There's insane, overwhelming demand for their products for AI/datacenters/etc. to the point where the entire semiconductor industry can't supply enough to meet demand. What do you expect them to do? Keep their focus on $250 gaming GPUs? Maybe you should direct some of your anger at AMD + Intel for failing to compete.
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Ray tracing is basically maths and predates any GPU vendors by decades

Of course Nvidia didn't invent ray tracing, nor AI, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything really. Their responsibility is to make these technologies possible on gaming GPUs, have a benefit to rendering and in real-time. And they dominate the field there.

Path tracing in gaming is super hard and most peoples didn't think it would be done, let alone going from Quake 2 RTX to Cyberpunk 2077 in such a short span. While Nvidia didn't invent the concept of path tracing, the implementation to real time rendering is a huge task. If it was easy then what are AMD and Intel doing?
Not sure what AMD and Intel are doing because we're talking about Nvidia. My point was that while Nvidia do deserve credit for being among the first to actual implement research made by the graphics community in some form into products, they also do (and did) some pretty shady/fucked up things. CUDA, for example, is a blessing and a curse. A blessing, because it's nicer to use and develop in than OpenCL or writing compute shaders and using them in Vulkan. A curse because they basically have (deliberately) everyone vendor-locked because of it. What I am saying is that Nvidia both deserve credit and scrutiny, imho.
And I guess what "triggered" me was "Nvidia dragging this industry forward kicking and screaming, and they even handed the keys to API consortiums to use it so every manufacturers can use it." because they are mostly dragging in their direction and ecosystem. I cannot fault them for this, they are in it to make a lot of money. But I think celebrating them as some arbiter of innovation is unwarranted. The actual arbiters are all the universities / institutions with research labs and the graphics community in general, to which Nvidia sometimes contributes.

My apologies if I came across combative.
 
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The tech looks promising but considering game dev realities, we won't see it for years. This isn't just a driver level optimization and dev studios actually have to do bunch of work around training models for this.

So for any projects past initial stages in the pipeline I find it unlikely that the tech will be implemented, ie we won't see it in games for like 4-5 years. Hopefully I am wrong.
Nah we'll see it sooner than that. We see it already, in fact. Ubisoft has a slightly different (and much more practical imo) version already shipped for AC mirage.

SSM used the inference on load concept in GOW: Ragnarok!

And both aren't even hardware accelerated, allowing it to run on any card. As a result, Ubisoft could only achieve 30% more compression, due to the extremely tiny neural network decoder they built for broad support, but the same idea can easily be extended to next gen and modern GPUs, where all this will be AI hardware accelerated with compression ratios that are in the ball park of this Nvidia demo.

The dev workflow and adoption rate will still be a bottleneck though. So universal adoption would still take 4-5 years or may be even more. You are right about that. But we'll start seeing it in games much sooner, wherever devs need to squeeze more SSD space or are running into VRAM bottlenecks.
 
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Ok? You could've responded with rational explanation of what exactly Nvidia is doing that's so horrible and what they should be doing instead. But thanks for the irrelevant meme.
Have you been living under a rock as they are partaking in massive circular investment schemes into AI firms who then in return sign deals with them which then in turn skyrockets demand for components which then in turn causes cartel like behavior from chip manufacturers which then in turn raises tech prices for everyone everywhere?

This is why I say fuck nvidia. I will always be here for their GPUs, but as long as their AI ambitions and forced push into it artificially raise their own value at the cost of the global tech economy, I will never trust what they are doing. It's clear they are a huge player in forcing a tech into existence that needs organic time to grow. But they are being opportunistic and it is having serious ramifications on the global economy. (And the worst case scenario is they get a massive tax payer funded bailout when they become too big to fail because of all this forced propping up of what AI is at the moment).

So, yet again my nuanced take is "props to Nvidia for their awesome gaming tech" but absolutely "fuck nvidia." I for one don't enjoy paying a 30-100% markup on technology because of Nvidia, them being one of the major players behind everything the last year. This will be my last reply on this topic. I won't be baited into a thread ban.

And since there are defenders for everything, I should make it clear that I'm not against AI. I'm against its clearly inorganic push into everything just so tech companies can make a quick buck and be the first to extract billions from the idea, Nvidia being one of those companies. There's an alternate world where the tech had a chance to develop and spread more organically, but because of companies like Nvidia, we may forever miss out on that realization.
 
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"while keeping image quality close to the original"

So it still downgrades the quality though. Not interested.
 
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Have you been living under a rock as they are partaking in massive circular investment schemes into AI firms who then in return sign deals with them which then in turn skyrockets demand for components which then in turn causes cartel like behavior from chip manufacturers which then in turn raises tech prices for everyone everywhere?

Always Sunny Reaction GIF


Peoples not understanding that AI and the road to singularity is basically a moon race between mega corporations and even funded at a country level will sure find "patterns" like crop circles in a field. It's a bigger race than the race to the moon or the Manhattan project, combined.

This is why I say fuck nvidia. I will always be here for their GPUs, but as long as their AI ambitions and forced push into it artificially raise their own value at the cost of the global tech economy, I will never trust what they are doing. It's clear they are a huge player in forcing a tech into existence that needs organic time to grow. But they are being opportunistic and it is having serious ramifications on the global economy. (And the worst case scenario is they get a massive tax payer funded bailout when they become too big to fail because of all this forced propping up of what AI is at the moment).

So, yet again my nuanced take is "props to Nvidia for their awesome gaming tech" but absolutely "fuck nvidia." I for one don't enjoy paying a 30-100% markup on technology because of Nvidia, them being one of the major players behind everything the last year. This will be my last reply on this topic. I won't be baited into a thread ban.

And since there are defenders for everything, I should make it clear that I'm not against AI. I'm against its clearly inorganic push into everything just so tech companies can make a quick buck and be the first to extract billions from the idea, Nvidia being one of those companies. There's an alternate world where the tech had a chance to develop and spread more organically, but because of companies like Nvidia, we may forever miss out on that realization.

Again, very "hip" to hate Nvidia and AI.

In the meantime, every single companies on earth would sell their grandmother to have what Nvidia had the chance to have for being first at selling shovels in a gold rush




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Always Sunny Reaction GIF


Peoples not understanding that AI and the road to singularity is basically a moon race between mega corporations and even funded at a country level will sure find "patterns" like crop circles in a field. It's a bigger race than the race to the moon or the Manhattan project, combined.



Again, very "hip" to hate Nvidia and AI.

In the meantime, every single companies on earth would sell their grandmother to have what Nvidia had the chance to have for being first at selling shovels in a gold rush




1E1g4jEXcXlEposa.jpg

Leather jacket must been delivered a long time ago it seems. Your first post made you seem intelligent, it was respectable. But now? Hah.

This conversation, much like the AI industries' investments, will endless go in circles. I suggest not trying to talk sense into me.
 
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This is basically AI doing the heavy lifting for GPUs. Instead of brute-forcing texture compression, the neural network predicts what detail is needed and reconstructs it on the fly. Big implications for next-gen rendering pipelines.
 
"while keeping image quality close to the original"

So it still downgrades the quality though. Not interested.
?

Do you think you are playing with original textures right now? NTC gets closer to the original than what is currently used in games
 
How long does it take to decompress?

We don't really know for a full fledge game. The github demo has big impacts of FPS for on-sample because it's just running that demo and nothing else so a ~0.2-1ms frametime has big impacts in the thousands of fps.

Nvidia and I guess other companies are optimistic on deployment in games. Nvidia's paper :

Although NTC is more expensive than traditional hardware-accelerated texture filtering, our results demonstrate that our method achieves high performance and is practical for use in real-time rendering. Furthermore, when rendering a complex scene in a fully-featured renderer, we expect the cost of our method to be partially hidden by the execution of concurrent work (e.g., ray tracing) thanks to the GPU latency hiding capabilities. The potential for latency hiding depends on various factors, such as hardware architecture, the presence of dedicated matrix-multiplication units that are otherwise under-utilized, cache sizes, and register usage. We leave investigating this for future work

With Playstation 6 at least confirmed to have NTC on-load.

So I guess these questions will come back often

  • On-load
    • You'll save on game size only on SSD.
    • You'll stress VRAM bandwidth more due to NTC→BCn
    • No VRAM saving, it'll go back to BCn size.
    • No impact on render pipeline performance
  • On-sample
    • You'll save on game size on SSD
    • You'll save on VRAM size and bandwidth usage has to be lower too as there's no decompression going on there.
    • You'll have a performance hit in pipeline as it will do inference with tensor cores. More than likely "hidden" or near negligible in a modern game's frametime. Inference in in the ~0.5-1ms frametime.
    • Stochastic texture filtering is a requirement here
  • On-Feedback
    • You'll save on game size on SSD
    • This is using sample feedback.
    • It uses SFS to find the set of texture tiles needed for rendering and decompress only those tiles to BCN at runtime.
    • Better than On-load on VRAM usage
    • Lower performance hit than on-sample
    • They mention potentially uneven frame times in their presentations. Probably an area of improvement.
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Anyone can test Nvidia's github demo btw, even AMD and Intel cards. I think AMD only has a bug for on feedback.

At a minimum, anything NTC saves on SSD space and has been tested all the way down to a low tier Turing GPUs (y)

You'll have high end PCs that will likely have margin to have on sample because in the future you'll also be with a ton of neural rendering and saving space is important, upscaling, framegen, ray reconstruction, neural shaders, neural skin, neural radiance cache path tracing, neural everything DLSS 5 :messenger_grinning_sweat:

While lower hardware will likely pick NTC on-load.

Really curious if Switch 2 can uses NTC on-load for certain games to save on cartridge size and minuscule storage. If the VRAM bandwidth permits it. Likely not for all games but certain developers could probably afford the feature.

Neural compression also opens up many other compression fields with research going on now for compressing light probes for baked lighting for huge open worlds. Although now I think by the time you have GPUs doing NTC, the reasons to go baked lighting over ray tracing doesn't make much sense. Maybe would help for lower end and SSD saving again.
 
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1199$ msrp( streetprice above 1500) rtx 6080 15,5+0,5GB incoming :P
Gotta keep that tradition aka gtx 970 memory gimmick, it worked back then so no reason for it to nor work now :P

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If it works as advertised, awesome, so long as they don't use it as an excuse to start shrinking the amount of ram on their GPUs.
 
This is not a small, reasonable cut. It's not like it reduced VRAM usage by half, which would still be an amazing result that would still make 8GB cards viable.

The difference here is so massive it almost completely neglects VRAM, which means there has to be a catch.
 
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But how great will be in motion and what's the catch?
Problem is that "loading" or texture generation requires lot more computing resources, it's not just loading bytes from the disk, it's generating the final texture data as needed with the model. Which also means there will be some artifacts, there could be some Level of Detail issues when texture is regenerated with higher precision, for example rock further away has texture of size 256x256 and then when it's closer model generates higher resolution version, but do all the details actually match with lower resolution version?

Still I like this version of AI in games much more than DLSS 5, images shown in the presentation look all great and memory savings are significant.
 
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Next gen consoles will use this and I believe almost by default. Kepler said they would keep it to NTC on load (not on sample) so at the very very least, it will be mainstream by the time devs release games on consoles and have PC ports. As for when games on PC will use it, at the least DX12 will have it API side for late April. I wouldn't be surprised we see some collaboration in fall between Nvidia and some sponsored game release.

When peoples ass how much SSD space it takes, there will be a lot f pressure for devs to stop fucking around and releasing >150GB games when some will be released at a fraction of that.
We shall see what happens. Directstorage is still barely used in games and it's been years since its intro.
 
We shall see what happens. Directstorage is still barely used in games and it's been years since its intro.

That had little to no impact on PCs with modern SSDs though

For NTC the pressure might even come from stores, a massive reduction in distribution of games is a huge network and bandwidth saver. If user has absolutely no capabilities to inference this on-load or on-sample, it would decompress at installation time at the bare minimum, but still likely that distribution will push on this hard as there's only gains on their end.

When peoples see games taking fractions of disk space, pressure will mount for devs to implement this.

This is direct perceptible impact, users see the size of games, download or installed on disk.

Direct storage is imperceptible for vast majority of gamers, you would have to be on SATA to be wow'ed. Someone on SATA SSD is likely not even aware he's getting slow loading times and even less so for ~15% loading speed gains.

I understand peoples want to make comparisons, but direct storage has nothing on this. Especially not with the global pressure on memory storage, digital distribution's side just like local user side with SSDs and VRAM. Never direct storage had anything on offer in the same ballpark of impact as NTC has here. DirectStorage is like the "we're dozens!" meme while every single gaming platform and digital distributers here can benefit from this tech.
 
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Watch Nvidia refuse to release this until the jig is up on the memory inflation caused by themselves and manufacturers hand in hand.

I don't understand that argument. Nvidia doesn't manufacture chips, nor is it the end product. Nvidia is an intermediary between manufacturing and the software industry.

They requests that TSMC and Micron manufacture chips at the request of OpenAI, Microsoft, Oracle, etc.

Understand this: the memory manufacturers themselves abandoned the consumer in favor of AI companies, because it was more profitable. The regulations and the cartel of memory manufacturers (interestingly, all Korean) make it difficult for new companies to enter the sector, creating artificial scarcity.
 
I think developers will love NTC. They just need to create a highest quality texture and feed into the AI machine and let it auto scale to fit their game resolutions
 
it seems cool tech, but its also another excuse for Nvidia to skimp on the amount of vram they put on their cards.
 
Ahh, finally we get some infos on that tech which i look very much forward to since some time.
 
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