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Obama announces support for same-sex marriage

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dojokun said:
If it was just between you and Gaborn it would be in private message. Comments in a thread are purposely open for others so the context is less about the poster and more about the post.
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Please stop commenting on a situation you're not knowledgeable about. Also, this is a message form me, ivy, to you, dojokun. Just so we're clear.
 
giga said:
Romney wants a federal amendment against same sex marriage!? What the fuck.


Live news feed: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/live-news-6105570
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This is a purely symbolic move that's likely to have very limited real-world impact. The symbolism is very nice, but the LGBT non-discrimination executive order Obama chose to sign a month ago would have far more real-world impact for more LGBT people.

I don't believe that doing so was Obama's primary impetus, but it's certainly a nice bonus for Obama that this will silence the vast majority of criticism from gay activists. Employment protection just doesn't have the same sex appeal, even though it matters quite a bit more on the ground.
 
ivysaur12 said:
Exactly. I doubt this will have any real effect besides being the right fucking thing to do.
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Yup.

Tempest in a teacup, really.

Father_Brain said:
This is a purely symbolic move that's likely to have very limited real-world impact. The symbolism is very nice, but the LGBT non-discrimination executive order Obama chose to sign a month ago would have far more real-world impact for more LGBT people.

I don't believe that doing so was Obama's primary impetus, but it's certainly a nice bonus for Obama that this will silence the vast majority of criticism from gay activists. Employment protection just doesn't have the same sex appeal, even though it matters quite a bit more on the ground.
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Also a really good point.
 
Gaborn said:
You aren't hearing me. No, I do not like his record on gay rights because he has not gone far enough and because he has not stuck to what apparently was his previous stance on the issue. HOWEVER, I don't vote just on gay rights. That is, I don't vote for a candidate if I agree with their position on gay rights and little else and I don't vote against them just because I disagree with them on gay rights. I base my decision on a variety of issues of which gay rights is 1. Obama has also been even worse than Bush on marijuana, raiding dispensaries at a faster pace than the previous President. He's had a track record very similar to Bush in prosecuting the "war on terror" as well and on civil liberties violations.

He's increasingly being criticized by journalists as well for prosecuting whistle blowers, that's an issue that MATTERS too. Obama promised the most transparent administration in US history. I fully agree with and am GLAD Congresswoman Wasserman is calling Obama out on this subject. Does anyone NOT find this quote creepy?



I'm not trying to tell you what to think, who to support, etc though. You have to make these choices for yourself, based on the issues you care about. Because I'm gay I've had people on GAF tell me flat out I have to support Obama and frankly, I find that a frightening view. Obama deserves much more intense scrutiny and criticism than he is receiving and it's not just about gay rights, although that is one issue.
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Come on. You're trying to pin down a politician for being a politician. Its the game. I'm sure everyone is just shocked by your intelligence, but naivete on the issue. So it appears that you just have a bone to pick with him, no matter what. You're going to shave many years off of your lifespan trying to believe what any of them say. All in all, we get a few laws here and there with these people. Outside of that, they do what they want, and what their special interests want them to do.
 
KingK said:
Yeah. I mean, I'm glad he's supported it, but I fail to see this having any net gain on his campaign. It may energize voters in states that will already vote for him, and cost him states that he needs to win. It seems really fucking risky.
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It would be great if he won the election and then said something about gay marriage on the podium. He would be supporting it as a winner. Now if he loses it actually hurts gay marriage more than it helps it. I respect him for doing this though, "too little too late" comments are pretty damn ridiculous considering the office he holds and the mood of this country politically which is usually center to center right.
 
Does this mean anything in terms of marriages becoming legal in he near future
Or is he just stating his opinion/intentions?
 
Father_Brain said:
This is a purely symbolic move that's likely to have very limited real-world impact. The symbolism is very nice, but the LGBT non-discrimination executive order Obama chose to sign a month ago would have far more real-world impact for more LGBT people.

I don't believe that doing so was Obama's primary impetus, but it's certainly a nice bonus for Obama that this will silence the vast majority of criticism from gay activists. Employment protection just doesn't have the same sex appeal, even though it matters quite a bit more on the ground.
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Wait, so did he sign that Order or not?
 
what did ol joe do to force the president's hand on this issue?


also, i'm surprised he didn't wait until december but whatever, good for him.
 
shira said:
Does this mean anything in terms of marriages becoming legal in he near future
Or is he just stating his opinion/intentions?
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The later, but it's important as a party leader. And it's important as a leader within the African-American community.
 
shira said:
Does this mean anything in terms of marriages becoming legal in he near future
Or is he just stating his opinion/intentions?
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It doesn't mean much in regards to nation-wide marriage equality; he still with the states' rights on this issue.
 
Gaborn said:
I'm not trying to tell you what to think, who to support, etc though. You have to make these choices for yourself, based on the issues you care about. Because I'm gay I've had people on GAF tell me flat out I have to support Obama and frankly, I find that a frightening view. Obama deserves much more intense scrutiny and criticism than he is receiving and it's not just about gay rights, although that is one issue.
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I'm sorry for my ignorance, but aren't these issues viewed worse by the Republicans? It's one thing I really struggle understanding the American two party system - finding a candidate that can actually represent your interests.

I don't see Romney having a fairer stance on marijuana, civil liberty violations or whistleblowers.
 
I'm glad Obama is finally expression is his real opinion on this matter. It's about time.


I know he was saying he was "uncertain" for political reasons, but I think the country can handle the truth on this just fine.
 
"I have to tell you that over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don't Ask Don't Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married,”
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...245.html?1336589752&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008


Obama throwing the Military in there as one of the reasons he is in support is fucking amazing strategy.
 
Gaborn said:
I give him credit for coming around to equality, I really do. I just really have contempt for someone who publicly supported bigotry until that was a poisonous enough position he could repudiate it. I would give him more credit for it if this didn't look so calculated, if it was an honest reassessment of his personal beliefs rather than in his judgment a politically safe move. Standing up for civil liberties is a good thing, but it's really not what he's doing here. He's trying to make political hay out of returning to his 1996 position (the one his spokesman called a "fake questionnaire" before they retracted that without explaining why he now opposed equality)

FenderPutty - Gary Johnson has publicly supported full marriage equality for a while and is the Libertarian nominee.
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Yup.
 
TheMan said:
what did ol joe do to force the president's hand on this issue?


also, i'm surprised he didn't wait until december but whatever, good for him.
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On Meet the Press, VP Biden sort of let it slip that both he and the president supported marriage equality.
 
commedieu said:
Come on. You're trying to pin down a politician for being a politician. Its the game. I'm sure everyone is just shocked by your intelligence, but naivete on the issue. So it appears that you just have a bone to pick with him, no matter what. You're going to shave many years off of your lifespan trying to believe what any of them say. All in all, we get a few laws here and there with these people. Outside of that, they do what they want, and what their special interests want them to do.
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sure, because the public has decided to NOT hold Presidents to account anymore. 50% of american adults have decided it's not worth voting, Independent voter registration is at an all time high. Outside of 2008 which was an outlier voter participation in elections has been trending down for DECADES. But partisans still want to pretend one party is substantially better than the other and to reach that conclusion they focus on one or two narrow issues that might be important but no less important than a dozen other issues.
 
Marius_ said:
I cant wait for the debates now, this is going to get ugly
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It'll be fun to see Romney try to defend an indefensible position on the national stage-- I hope it's as brutal and as bloody as when GAF's resident bigots contort themselves into knots trying to justify their own backward ideas.
 
ivysaur12 said:
The later, but it's important as a party leader. And it's important as a leader within the African-American community.
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It's also important because it indicates the level and type of support that the AG would provide assuming the SCOTUS rules on whether orientation is a protected class.
 
Mercury Fred said:
It'll be fun to see Romney try to defend an indefensible position on the national stage-- I hope it's as brutal and as bloody as when GAF's resident bigots contort themselves into knots trying to justify their own backward ideas.
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I don't know how you debate something like this.

Mitt: Hey American people, my opponent doesn't hold a bigoted viewpoint like I do. Vote for me!
 
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