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Obama Will Seek to Raise Taxes on Wealthy to Finance Cuts for Middle Class
- Thread starter Trojita
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I think it just rings a bit hollow that all of a sudden he's got all of these grand ideas to announce when the Republicans control everything and there is no chance anything he proposes will pass. Where were these ideas back when the democrats controlled everything? To me, it's a lot easier to throw out ideas that sounds good politically when you know there is no chance they will ever happen.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
boom. He thinks the country is stupid. That's about all you can take from this.
Link
The Autumn Wind
So he's finally playing the same game Republicans do.
Democrats haven't 'controlled everything' in a long time. The supposed 'supermajority' they had in the first couple months of '09 included blue dog Democrats and Joe fucking Lieberman, who blocked Universal Health Care and went on to speak at the RNC. Then there's how the GOP has been filibustering everything under the sun.
Well, when the Democrats had both houses of Congress and the presidency, it was considering one of the most productive sessions of Congress since LBJ's Great Society, if we're going to use bills passed as a benchmark. Not to mention that the most significant overhaul to the healthcare system since 1965 (Medicare and Medicaid) also happened during this Congress.
Also, it was impossible to pass most progressive ideas in the Senate.
Coriolanus
Banned
And? Should he not pander to his constituents?
This also backs reps into a corner, so win win.
He's also setting the agenda for the Democratic party for years to come. It's not pandering -- it's creating a distinction. And not all of this will go through, but the idea is that even a few pieces of legislation can find some common ground, even if they're a bit neutered.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
People simply see "Dems controlled both houses" and assumed that was free range for Obama to do whatever he wanted
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Right, people weirdly forget that quite a bit of shit actually got done then
Right, it wasn't. There was no honeymoon period, there were no Republicans coming across the aisle (except in special cases, like with the DADT repeal), and were few grand bargains struck. Now, could we ascribe this to a political naivetee of the president? Maybe. Maybe he shouldn't have gone after healthcare first. Maybe he should've tried to pass smaller progressive ideas that had a broader reach. But it's sort of a hindsight problem, and we did end up with one of the most significant social reforms of any of our lifetimes so ¯\_(ツ
_/¯BearFlexington
Member
Please elaborate. Is the thought that a flat tax rate across the board would decrease buying from those experiencing a hike?
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
My point is if he was simply waiting until he had no chance to pass anything to become more progressive, he would have made the switch 4 years ago, not now.
Maybe he saw what we all were complaining about regarding 2014, that low turnout was because people didn't see enough of a difference between the two parties, and is actually staking out a difference for the party.
But if everyone's going to just pretend both sides are the same no matter what he does, then I guess it's no wonder they campaign like moderate republicans when the time comes, since moderates are the only ones that might vote for them.
I have a feeling thats why most of the people in this thread don't like it.
10$ says that the same people saying he shouldn't make these sort of statements are the same people that try to push the narrative that Dems and Republicans are exactly the SAME.
Creating a distinction as clear as this does damages that narrative.
I mean you have people trying to pretend he and Romney are the same in here...
afternoon delight
Member
My fellow American, I am surprised by your surprise.
This is a PR facade to maintain the illusion that the Democratic Party believes in progressive, left-wing economic policies. That is what the Democrats campaign on, but they solicit and get the vast majority of their funding from corporations, so when they actually govern and pass bills, they are right-wing "compromise" economic policies. This has been their mission since the creation of the Democratic Leadership Council in the mid-80s and it has been the way they've governed since Clinton and his Third Way democrats came into power. Obama is the same and Hillary will be the same as well.
As a progressive, this posturing is frustrating. It should be frustrating to other liberals as well. The Democratic Party may not be as far to the right as the GOP, but they are still right-wing on economic issues and the only way that will change is if the party is held accountable and their double speak is not only questioned but repudiated as well.
As a progressive, this posturing is frustrating. It should be frustrating to other liberals as well. The Democratic Party may not be as far to the right as the GOP, but they are still right-wing on economic issues and the only way that will change is if the party is held accountable and their double speak is not only questioned but repudiated as well.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Making perfect the enemy of the good will do no one any favors, yourself most of all.
Our tax code IS loopholes. It's an astonishing concoction of special interest garbage.
speculawyer
Member
Sure, why not? Have an agenda. Not like it is going to pass but people can at least see who is trying to change things.
Romney was a republican governed of a heavily blue state. He *had* to do it, basically.
Loophole list please.
It's literally thousands of pages.
TacticalFox88
Banned
lol @ Close all loopholes.
That's not how it works.
There are no such things as "loopholes" in our tax code. That would imply that the rich just hired lawyers to "look" for things they can skirt out of paying
The current way the code is written is written EXPLICITLY for people to take advantage of.
That's not how it works.
There are no such things as "loopholes" in our tax code. That would imply that the rich just hired lawyers to "look" for things they can skirt out of paying
The current way the code is written is written EXPLICITLY for people to take advantage of.
All the most popular ones then. If hardly anyone with a 400k salary pays above 20%, it should be easy to list off the most commonly used.
Edit:
Okay, then to all saying to close the loopholes, which are you talking about? For individuals. Not companies.
I claim 0 and end up having to pay at the end of the year. I would like to get in on the loopholes.
That's exactly what I'm getting at. Obama can say anything he wants, but all of this free college and tax increases for the wealthy is nothing but posturing, because there is exactly zero percent chance of anything actually happening. I get that it's not his fault that Republicans control everything, but these kinds of statements get people all excited for no reason.
If your employer offers a high deductible plan you should jump into that ASAP
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Not really, it's important for the President to say this because it enters the mainstream thought bubble. Just like it was useful for Occupy Wallstreet to start the "99%" thing, it did get people to talk, to see things differently, to remove taboos. You'd prefer him to shut up while Republicans pollute the airwaves with their destructive ideas? Plus it sets the stage for the 2016 race, since Clinton can't go and do a 180 on what will have gathered pace before through Obama. If he doesn't do this, who knows what the heck Hillary might run on. At the same time, it will probably allow her to get more undecided voter support if she aims for a middle ground while Obama goes all the way, which is probably part of the Dems' strategy to help Hillary win anti-Obama votes. Those who like Obama will vote Hillary, those won't don't will too because "she's more constructive".
I hope he brings more of the stuff every week, open the floodgates.
CrunchyFrog
Member
Exactly. I'll believe it when I see it.
So...he does or says nothing? Is that his only route here.? He can at least change the discourse and put pressure on the Republicans and energize a fractured, dispirited base.
Bububububu he's had 6 years!!! Woulda coulda shoulda who gives a shit. Past is the fucking past. This needs to happen and I'm happy he's not just going to sit on his ass and cede all talks to Republicans just because he pissed off a couple liberals by not fully committing to a liberal doctrine.
Change the talk. Inspire debate. Change the polls, don't chase em. Get the populist message out there and rile the haters.
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
Thing is, this will be enough to rally the middle class (or what should be the middle class). When it's ultimately not voted for it'll all but ensure people blame Republicans. A cynical person could say this was set up to fail to ensure a Blue President.
Metaphoreus
This is semantics, and nothing more
There are definitely loopholes in the IRC, but this isn't one of them. That the president has taken to calling it a "loophole"--better yet, the "trust fund" loophole--simply shows what contempt he has for the intelligence of his supporters.
Come onnnn where's that Wall Street Journal income infographic, come onnnnn
THERE IT IS.
I love this graphic.
elrechazado
Banned
All these Americans taking advantage of the 401(k) loophole must be stopped.
Gambit 1138
Banned
Exactly. Not sure why so many obama threads are being posted about how Obama is good jan do this, obama is gonna do that. Obama ain't doing shit. It's not even up to him.
It's not actually about passing these things. He knows must of this of these progressive ideas won't pass with a republican congress. He is trying to set the agenda of the Democratic party so that they don't lose like they did in the midterm because they didn't have any actual proposals to run on .
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Talk is cheap. Executive action somehow or STFU.
Link
The Autumn Wind
Some of the proposals he plans to do through executive actions, so yes, it is up to him. Maybe you should actually read those threads.
Lol, "executive action somehow."
Come onnnn where's that Wall Street Journal income infographic, come onnnnn
THERE IT IS.
But think of that poor single mom who makes 4x the salary of an average person.
I love that graphic.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Nah, the Republicans would actually have a chance of repealing Obamacare if they actually got an all Republican Congress and President.
This is just blowing smoke for the election in 2 years.
It's pandering. Democrats don't want to raise taxes for the rich either. Many of them have signed the same pledge from Norquist. Obama knows that there is no chance of any change so it doesn't hurt to pretend there is, knowing full well that Democrats are just as opposed to this deep down. But they can pin their failures to accomplish what they really don't want to accomplish on Republicans.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
My fellow Americans, words words words. More words, and other words. Here are some words. These words are very important to me. Words words words. Words. I will words words words. These words are necessary, and these words will happen.
I have no faith in my leader anymore.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Man, democrats barely get full control for all of 30 days, and everyone's still pissed they didn't turn the country into Sweden.
They don't say anything and it's used as proof that both sides are the same. They do say something and they're called liers and both sides are the same. They apparently litterally aren't allowed to do anything right.
It's really no wonder you see them running centrist campaigns all the time, with voting records to match, since it's clear apparently nothing will ever overcome the cynicalness of liberals.
They don't say anything and it's used as proof that both sides are the same. They do say something and they're called liers and both sides are the same. They apparently litterally aren't allowed to do anything right.
It's really no wonder you see them running centrist campaigns all the time, with voting records to match, since it's clear apparently nothing will ever overcome the cynicalness of liberals.
"Democrats" is way too broad here. There are Democrats who want to raise taxes on the rich and Democrats who don't. Obama seems like one who really does want to, given that he made such a big deal out of it earlier in his presidency to real effect, so it's weird to talk like he's insincere.
But it's politically difficult to get this to happen. A lot of people feel like if they voted for Democrats because they wanted higher taxes on the rich or whatever, and then at one point it would have been technically possible to make that happen through the action of only people with D's next to their names but it didn't happen, then Democrats are basically useless. You can see that attitude in this thread. This is a terrible way of thinking about politics.
This tendency makes it very hard for a Democrat to loudly advocate for higher taxes on the rich when Democrats control Congress. For some reason people focus on the relatively small number of Democrats who aren't on board rather than the much larger number of Republicans who aren't on board. The purpose of advocacy like this is not to convince members of Congress that whatever-it-is is a good idea - that's not how politicians work. The purpose of advocacy like this is to build political movements. You make the Democrats into a party who will enact higher taxes on the rich by making it clear that that's what's getting them votes. But it's obvious from this thread that lots of people actually find advocacy that doesn't achieve immediate results disillusioning, especially when the Democrats as a party could have made it happen if they were all on the same page. Therefore it's pretty stupid for a president to sincerely advocate for something when his party controls Congress if his party isn't so overwhelmingly in favor of whatever-it-is that it can actually pass Congress, because it will actually do damage to the underlying political movement which doesn't understand that Democrats aren't a hive mind.
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Except obama has already raised taxes on the rich. Putting the capital gains tax from 15% to 20% for everyone who makes more than $400,000. The top marginal rate also rose from 35% to 40% thanks entirely to him.
And that was in the middle of a recession, when raising taxes can be seen as risky for the recovery. Why the hell would we think he wouldn't do the same thing again, now that the economy is much better?
Come onnnn where's that Wall Street Journal income infographic, come onnnnn
THERE IT IS.
Holy hell, look how sad they are. Not tough to imagine why, it'll be slightly harder to pay off their mansions now.
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