I saw an interview with Elon Musk the other day where he said that when he started Tesla he expected to go broke but he thought that it was more important that he proved that electric cars were as good as gasoline cars than whatever personal benefit he would get as being CEO of Tesla so he did it anyway. I used to think Palmer Luckey was the same way. Maybe he is and Facebook is just going against his will but he fucking sold out big time. Just look at all his quotes regarding VR being more important than Oculus dominating and how important open standards are to VR adoption and now look at today's conference. Either he is a huge hypocrite or he no longer has any control (i.e. he sold out).
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Oculus special press event thread | Step into the Rift | June 11th 10am PDT
- Thread starter ashecitism
- Start date
I saw an interview with Elon Musk the other day where he said that when he started Tesla he expected to go broke but he thought that it was more important that he proved that electric cars were as good as gasoline cars than whatever personal benefit he would get as being CEO of Tesla so he did it anyway. I used to think Palmer Luckey was the same way. Maybe he is and Facebook is just going against his will but he fucking sold out big time. Just look at all his quotes regarding VR being more important than Oculus dominating and how important open standards are to VR adoption and now look at today's conference. Either he is a huge hypocrite or he no longer has any control (i.e. he sold out).
Fusion Pizza
Member
That event was horribly done, what the fuck is going on with OR?
I've been pluggin away with my DK2 on stuff for months now, I was pretty excited to see what the consumer version would be, and I'm honestly really let down, the HTC Vive is looking way better to me right now.
I've been pluggin away with my DK2 on stuff for months now, I was pretty excited to see what the consumer version would be, and I'm honestly really let down, the HTC Vive is looking way better to me right now.
You still haven't explained how he's sold out other than pointing out that they have a money-making strategy(which is not the same thing as trying to dominate).
The fucking founder of the company has extensively railed against exclusive content for greater VR adoption and explained how important it is to have a proper VR controller if VR is going to catch on amongst the public and now Oculus totally abandons both of those ideals in the most egregious way possible! It's a tragedy and Oculus had totally sold out.
The fact that they tried to acquire any exclusive content at all shows that they sold out. Today's entire press conference was exclusive this and corporate partner that. Fuck that shit, they have lost the plot.
Yup, I don't understand what he's talking about.
Wait, have they actually confirmed this? You -can't- buy the HTC Vive without the 3D controllers?
Americanmushroom
Banned
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
Just finished watching this on youtube.
With such a dry product focused presentation with a real dearth of software content it seems pretty obvious that there's no killer app yet.
They were very fond of telling us about some incredible experiences that you'll experience on the Rift but didn't show them. If you can show, you don't tell. It's marketing 101.
I can't see how that presentation won't have dampened most people's enthusiasm for the Rift. If Sony or Valve have great content to show, it's going to be very difficult for the Rift to regain that lost mindshare this early in the game.
With such a dry product focused presentation with a real dearth of software content it seems pretty obvious that there's no killer app yet.
They were very fond of telling us about some incredible experiences that you'll experience on the Rift but didn't show them. If you can show, you don't tell. It's marketing 101.
I can't see how that presentation won't have dampened most people's enthusiasm for the Rift. If Sony or Valve have great content to show, it's going to be very difficult for the Rift to regain that lost mindshare this early in the game.
They'd done the exclusive deal with Eve Valkyrie before the Facebook deal and before Valve ever announced anything.
As for the corporate partnership with Microsoft, how is that selling out? That doesn't make any sense.
And no, that was not the 'entire' press conference whatsoever. :/
I feel like you're still just in knee-jerk reaction mode.
Oculus said all that stuff, including Oculus Touch, will be playable at E3.
Yeah, I don't think exclusives counts as "selling out", and in fact I'd guess most of those projects are actually happening because Oculus is financing them. Think more Bayonetta 2 than Rise of the Tomb Raider.
It was mentioned in an interview during GDC that they are only planning on selling it as a complete kit (headset, lighthouse, 3D controllers) to begin with. Every user will have the same hardware. I'm sure they will split it up eventually (6+ months down the line).
Palmer Luckey has said many times that VR needs to be as affordable as possible for wide adoption (his main justification for selling to Facebook) and that consumer VR will not work without custom VR input devices.
The pack in of the Xbox One controller artificially increased prices for no reason and is hardly a custom VR input device and holds VR back while Oculus sorts their input system out. The entire Microsoft deal is a total sellout. I hope they are getting paid a shitload of money to totally abandon their ideals.
EDIT: If a well established company came out and told us all this anti-consumer shit they wanted to pull (mandatory pack-ins for no reason except they got paid to do it and exclusive moneyhats where they never existed before) we'd be pissed but when it is a company that used to be a small start-up that we bankrolled and used to have an idealistic vision that they have now completely abandoned we are going to call them what they are, SELL OUTS!
Until we've seen the price, you cant say that it artificially increases the price. You still haven't explained how packaging in the controller is 'selling out', though. That makes no sense. It sounds like the logic here is 'Microsoft=bad, so affiliating with MS is selling out', which means nothing and disregards what selling out actually means.
He's also never said that VR 'will not work' without custom VR input devices.
They had their hand forced by Valve, plain and simple. They could not wait half a year to release their product to get Oculus Touch packaged in, which is I'm sure what they would prefer to do if they could. This isn't selling out in an effort to dominate. This is fighting to remain relevant.
Yea, you're 100% in knee-jerk reaction mode.
VindicatorZ
Member
Nexus Zero
Member
I think the Facebook fallout is just about the most embarrassed I've ever been to hang out on forums and Reddit etc. Not at all surprising, but disappointed at the petty whining about a deal that, without which, Oculus wouldn't be where they are right now.
Also, from what we know, the headsets are all roughly of equal capability, but the Touch controllers are a step up from the Vive and Move controllers with the hand gesture support. I seriously don't understand why people are saying the Vive is a healthier proposition outside of a general sense of butthurt that they're getting to market first.
I do however think it would be a major mistake for Oculus to ship the Rift without the Touch controllers. I expect we might understand why they're rushing to market on Monday
Also, from what we know, the headsets are all roughly of equal capability, but the Touch controllers are a step up from the Vive and Move controllers with the hand gesture support. I seriously don't understand why people are saying the Vive is a healthier proposition outside of a general sense of butthurt that they're getting to market first.
I do however think it would be a major mistake for Oculus to ship the Rift without the Touch controllers. I expect we might understand why they're rushing to market on Monday
Turin Turambar
Member
The press event was bad because it was kind of hollow, no technical data, no lengthy gameplay demos, no hands-on impressions, no price, etc.
They wanted to leave additional data and journalists trying the device for the E3. But then... why make a separate pre-E3 event if most of the "meat" is going to be later? You are left with an event without substance.
But people should separate the press event "performance" (really mediocre) from the Rift "performance". That's two totally different things. The HMD looks well designed, comfy and light. The Touch look small and super ergonomic and has interesting functionality. The camera design is great, and if they improved the volume tracking I don't see a problem with it (and needing only one, but allowing to be scalable is imo a better choice for most users than 2 lighthouses).
People saying that now Oculus is in the, I quote, "last position in the VR race" just because the press event are kind of laughable.
They wanted to leave additional data and journalists trying the device for the E3. But then... why make a separate pre-E3 event if most of the "meat" is going to be later? You are left with an event without substance.
But people should separate the press event "performance" (really mediocre) from the Rift "performance". That's two totally different things. The HMD looks well designed, comfy and light. The Touch look small and super ergonomic and has interesting functionality. The camera design is great, and if they improved the volume tracking I don't see a problem with it (and needing only one, but allowing to be scalable is imo a better choice for most users than 2 lighthouses).
People saying that now Oculus is in the, I quote, "last position in the VR race" just because the press event are kind of laughable.
Interpupillary distance (IPD) adjustment with adaptive fabric.
Source + lots more info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpP7E7o3ZOY
Source + lots more info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpP7E7o3ZOY
Doesn't look too sturdy, though. As if these could get out of alignment by themselves all the time.
I would hardly call what Oculus are doing as 'rushing to market'. And Valve isn't gonna be at E3. There's no 'rush' against Sony, it's PC market vs console market. Oculus are having to rush to not be too late is all.I think the Facebook fallout is just about the most embarrassed I've ever been to hang out on forums and Reddit etc. Not at all surprising, but disappointed at the petty whining about a deal that, without which, Oculus wouldn't be where they are right now.
Also, from what we know, the headsets are all roughly of equal capability, but the Touch controllers are a step up from the Vive and Move controllers with the hand gesture support. I seriously don't understand why people are saying the Vive is a healthier proposition outside of a general sense of butthurt that they're getting to market first.
I do however think it would be a major mistake for Oculus to ship the Rift without the Touch controllers. I expect we might understand why they're rushing to market on Monday
Very cool.Interpupillary distance (IPD) adjustment with adaptive fabric.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpP7E7o3ZOY
Anyways, I think the big problem with Oculus' press conference was they handled it very badly. It was presented in a very cringey, MS/Sony/Nvidia-esque corporate manner. But they also paced it disasterously. I get the thought behind saving Touch for when they did, as if it was all just kind of a joke tease, but people certainly didn't take it that way. Instead, revealing the XB1 controller and having everybody think that was Oculus' long standing input solution set the pace for the entire show. After that, people were in meltdown mode and Oculus never recovered from it. Instead of it being an old slap-on-the-knee 'You got me' joke when Palmer finally revealed a true VR input solution, it was largely brushed off and people's mindset was already in 'Oculus is crap' mode. Oculus thought they would troll the audience doing this, but it really blew up in their face.
On the other hand, if you step away from the disaster of the presentation level, they actually showed some good stuff. I see people mention 'dearth of content', but what I saw looked good and obviously we're going to see a lot more going forward going by the partnerships they've showed, including plenty of stuff playable at E3. Oculus Touch looks like a nice solution and I'm interested in seeing what they can do with it and whether it will 'fuse' into existing motion control games.
I wasn't impressed with the conference, but I am still greatly interested in most of what they showed. I can also understand the pressure they are under due to Valve, creating the situation requiring them to launch with Touch(and thus needing a controller). It's a shame, but it's understandable.
The presentation was very poor but at least the headset and everything has been shown off now!
I think the headset looks great as well as the control methods but they seem to be going in the mass market approach with the focus on software UI, ergonomics and basic controls. All of this is fine, great actually as hopefully it sells a bunch and gets a lot more hype behind the VR train.
That said, for me the Vive looks like the more interesting device as I prefer the whole platform freedom and movability.
I think the headset looks great as well as the control methods but they seem to be going in the mass market approach with the focus on software UI, ergonomics and basic controls. All of this is fine, great actually as hopefully it sells a bunch and gets a lot more hype behind the VR train.
That said, for me the Vive looks like the more interesting device as I prefer the whole platform freedom and movability.
That's also my concern.
not if you have to have cables going back to your PC for each sensor, as it seems they are basically webcams. Lighthouses can be standalone , just need a local power connection which should be much easier to install if you want more than one.
For a seated setup, Oculus Rift sounds simpler though - just the one sensor plugged into your PC. Although I'm not sure where you are supposed to install it. That big stand thing would basically be right in front of my monitor on my desk. I wouldn't want to keep moving it in and out of place every time I wanted to use the OR.
Do we know how much is on hand at E3?
I can see, in E3 conference terms, why people are critical of the amount shown at the conference... nevermind the lack of live demos etc, I think there were only maybe 5 or 6 games at the conference in a trailer/announcement capacity? There's no doubt there's plenty in development out there among new VR devs and smaller developers, but I might have expected them to highlight more high profile stuff and partnerships with medium/larger studios here.
I'm suddenly thinking that the xbox controller isn't just a stopgap while they finish their controller... it could also be part of a deal with microsoft in exchange for complete windows 10 compatibility.
I know it is a big "if", but if Oculus becomes completely plug and play in windows 10 while the HTC Vive still requires the user to fiddle with setting the headset as a secondary screen, mirroriring and all the usual stuff we've dealt with with Oculus DK1 and DK2... that'd be a strong point in their favor.
Hell, we may even see microsoft announce full Oculus compatibility for the XBO in a few days.
I know it is a big "if", but if Oculus becomes completely plug and play in windows 10 while the HTC Vive still requires the user to fiddle with setting the headset as a secondary screen, mirroriring and all the usual stuff we've dealt with with Oculus DK1 and DK2... that'd be a strong point in their favor.
Hell, we may even see microsoft announce full Oculus compatibility for the XBO in a few days.
I think they literally said that everything from the conference would be demoed at E3.
I think they said all the stuff shown will be playable.
And we know that AAA devs aren't the ones who are going to be jumping on the VR train first-thing. It will the smaller devs that provide the most substantial content flow for a while.
I think there may be something more to do the deal, but I don't think they held Windows compatibility over their heads. They would have already been working together to get VR integrated into Windows 10 in a more convenient manner than now(with performance benefits on top of that), and I imagine that's where the discussion started.
It could just be a matter of Microsoft saying, "Hey, we'll throw in these controllers if you include our branding in your packaging and promotional materials." But I do think there's an increasing chance of having an Oculus headset(I don't know if it'll be the Rift specifically) for XB1. I've been kinda suspicious that this was potentially on the cards before the conference, in fact.
I absolutely *don't* think this is their desired plan, though. Palmer is big on 3d input and they've said for a while that 'input is hard' and they don't want to put anything out there til it's done right. They've been very adamant about that, in fact. I'm 99% sure they'd have preferred to have left the XB1 pad out and just had Touch, but if it's not gonna be ready, this was basically Plan B.
DryvBy
Member
Just adding a bit to this. I have 0 issues with motion sickness. Nothing makes me sick in normal gaming. When I got a DK2, I was so excited about playing first person games. They're great until you jump. Jumping made me very sick to my stomach. And it only happens in first-person games where I was a person walking around. FPS works really well in a cock-pit. You can dash, jump, roll, everything. Doesn't make you sick. Your brain gets really confused when you're jumping in a game and doesn't see a cockpit around it.
Half-Life 2 gave me the most motion sickness and that sucked because that was one of my favorite experiences. Quake II and Doom was actually easier to deal with. In Quake, you're so fast and jumping around just feels weird, but not enough to make you take the headset off. It was just uncomfortable.
Third person seems like it would be pointless but it's not. It feels really cool. You're the eyes of the camera and can look around the world. Before I had my DK2, I thought 3rd person games would be very weak.
Until you've tried VR, it's easy to assume what will and will not work. But I found that until we have an ability to make the jumps in real life, it's hard to process the jumping motion in VR without a cockpit. Maybe a jetpack would work. It's very mental.
I missed this live and just reading through the thread now it blows my damn mind how so many people can't understand 3rd person VR. It's really not hard to visualize yet somehow people think "Not first person? Whaaaaat? That's not VR, might as well just strap a monitor to my face!" Like how? How in the hell do you even reach that conclusion? All it takes is like 5 seconds of thought to realize you'll still be inside game world but instead of seeing it through the eyes of the character you'll see it through a different set of eyes following behind the character. Like being the Lakitu in Super Mario 64. But I guess that's just way too hard to visualize for a lot of people.
I'm so glad there's only about a year left of people being so confused by VR and hopefully by his time next year there wont be as many uninformed posts as this thread was full of.
I'm so glad there's only about a year left of people being so confused by VR and hopefully by his time next year there wont be as many uninformed posts as this thread was full of.
I'm hoping they actually make it a bit tighter with a lock.
The ones on the DK2 that adjusted how close or far the lenses were from your eyes loosened up real quickly.
Wildstar75
Member
Playing luckys tale definitely showed me how awesome 3rd person VR can be.
I apologize for not having read the entire thread but EVE:V is on the morpheus as well, no?
ashecitism
Member
Yes.
Oculus made it a PC exclusive. Since PS4 is a console it doesn't count.
Oh so it's 'that' kind of exclusive.
Octavianus
Banned
Interpupillary distance (IPD) adjustment with adaptive fabric.
Source + lots more info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpP7E7o3ZOY
Really cool. They should have done this on the stream.
I thought the presentation was fine until Phil Spencer came on stage and did his... thing and it was fine again after he left.
I was hoping they'd do a price announcement though, that was my only real dissapointment.
Also, I'm really curious about their input solution and I look forward to the impressions from people at E3.
Precision should be fine. You can be just as precise with optical tracking. Occlusion is a drawback, but only for experiences where you're having to turn around, and Oculus hinted at maybe being able to add a 2nd camera, so that could have a solution as well.
It's really not 'quite a big issue' unless you're planning on doing room space-type VR(which I don't think will become a huge thing), and if you can use a 2nd camera, it's not much of an issue at all.
Veritigo_X
Member
Finally got around to watching the event. Was getting some serious Silicon Valley vibes from that. I don't think I can take tech press events seriously anymore.
You know, I suddenly really want a VR Duke Nukem title where flipping the enemies off is a game mechanic.
Octavianus
Banned
I like Tested's overview of the event:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyrCt0kCCzo
Sorry if someone already posted it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyrCt0kCCzo
Sorry if someone already posted it.
I'm new be nice
Member
MrFrankFontaine
Banned
While the conference wasn't super exciting and could have been executed on a lot better, I'm still very impressed on how the consumer product has shaped up. Slightly disappointed that it isn't shipping with their touch controller only because it will split their market. Also wished they announced a hard date with pricing. However, it's looking really good and couldn't be more excited.
Still looking for more details from Oculus and Valve before deciding which product to invest in. However, it will be hard to pass on the Vive if it truly launches first at the end of the year.
Still looking for more details from Oculus and Valve before deciding which product to invest in. However, it will be hard to pass on the Vive if it truly launches first at the end of the year.
flaxknuckles
Member
Since your middle finger has to rest on a trigger on this prototype controller and the handles are short I wonder how annoying playing lightsaber games is gonna be.