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[Wallach]

Equally absurd is the venn diagram overlap for disposable income for a headset and pirates games is likely infinitesimally small.

It's stupid, yeah. Point is, it isn't checking if you pirated the game or not, so this being about piracy is null.

I would understand if this only applied to Lucky's Tale, since right now the only way to acquire it should be through buying a Rift. Still, it seems like a convenient excuse when the action taken is not specific to that software.

 

[ManUtdRedDevils]

Not surprising. I understand their view point but I think it is a bad choice especially when the Vive is currently the more compelling product. None of these games are compelling enough to sway sales. DRM, bad PR, intrusive software, etc are.

 

[Zalusithix]

And now the long standing fallacy that Windows is "open" so everything must be freely portable, comes home to roost. If there is hardware involved there is the possibility of restrictions that limits software and, software that checks for hardware. If there are binaries, they can contain drm, and licenses that prohibit tampering with it. You think Microsoft thinks that's a bad thing? No.

You think we care what Microsoft thinks? The company that wants to lock down applications to their store with tons of limitations? Consumer expectations don't have to fall in line with the interests of corporations.

Besides, right now consumers hold the cards. There isn't yet a monopoly in VR, and if consumers vote with their wallets against the practice, Oculus will either be forced to relent or face serious marketshare contraction.

 

[Zepp Twofist]

And now the long standing fallacy that Windows is "open" so everything must be freely portable, comes home to roost. If there is hardware involved there is the possibility of restrictions that limits software and, software that checks for hardware. If there are binaries, they can contain drm, and licenses that prohibit tampering with it. You think Microsoft thinks that's a bad thing? No.

I'm not sure where you are coming from. I think most people already know that 90% of all software and hardware DRM that has ever existed is Windows exclusive. Or are you selling some other agenda that is completely missing the point?

 

[elohel]

Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to introduce you to Facebook.

EDIT: I should also add an 'It begins'.
There's every chance the competing headset vendors will destroy the new wave of VR before it reaches mass market adoption.

Yeah I didn't even know they were associated and this makes sense


Edit: it essentially admits fear of openness or just flat out acknowledges that the other product is superior.

 

[Sky Chief]

Not surprising, I told you guys this would be happening. We all know Facebook's and Oculus's real stripes and have for a while. The Oculus guys and Palmer are huge sellouts.

Also, I think that because of their incompetence in component procurement and shipping and being leapfrogged in tech by Valve and HTC they must be losing significantly in market share right now. My guess is this is just a reaction to that and their own failings and incompetence. I still have a preorder for a Rift that I ordered on launch day but now has been pushed back to June. I think this might be the final straw that convinces me to cancel.

 

[Krejlooc]

Unless VR technology has hit a ceiling and there will be no new technology or innovation

The stuff we are all talking about with regards to VR - inside-out/outside-in tracking, stereoscopic displays, sub-millimeter tracking, asynchronous timewarp, etc - have indeed been at a ceiling for the last 30 years. Current VR isn't radically different than the VR of the 80's that NASA used. The biggest innovation in the last 30 years for VR? Lighthouse tech itself, and Valve is not patenting that.

Ehm YOU are the one who brought up mobile vr as some counter argument to my statement that I hadn't seen anyone talking about vr on gaf or elsewhere.

Talk about it has died down a LOT. Especially on gaming where we used to have several threads a day and now only the rare 'oculus is shit: part 5575' thread

You seem to think that whether you personally or not have seen talk means it has "died down." Case in point, this is the third time you've said there has been no talk about this on GAF because you apparently missed the 18 page topic on it.

VR talk hasn't "died down," you're just not paying attention.

 

[Visualante2]

Called it back in April. Right on time.

 

[justsomeguy]

So wait, are they just adding drm to their own self-funded exclusives, or are they making it mandatory for everything sold through the store?

If the former, I'm fine with that.

 

[ruddiger7]

Glad i got a vive. Not giving a cent to those oculus turds.

 

[Krejlooc]

So wait, are they just adding drm to their own self-funded exclusives, or are they making it mandatory for everything sold through the store?

If the former, I'm fine with that.

A) Their store already had DRM, obviously almost any store has DRM. This is so that people who buy games from their store can't just trade it to their friends by copying the files to another computer. Unlike something like Steam, whose DRM activation requires you be connected once to the internet when launching, Oculus Home's DRM requires you be online every time you launch a game so it can check DRM.

B) They have added an additional check to their DRM that blocks competing headsets. That's all this update does. Their DRM, preventing piracy, was already in place before this. All this update does is block other headsets.

C) All games sold on Oculus Home have this DRM. If you pirate the same game, or buy it off of another store (for games that are sold on multiple stores, like Technolust), then the revive driver still works because that additional DRM check doesn't exist on other stores. This affects everything on Oculus Home, not just the exclusives they funded. Also note that the games Valve funded on Steam don't block the rift from working, like The Lab.

To clarify with a real world example - Technolust uses the Oculus SDK to run. If you buy it from Oculus Home, you can't run it using ReVive because their DRM blocks you. If you get the very same game on Steam, or directly through Blair Renaud, then you can use ReVive to run it on the vive because there is no DRM in the first place. Oculus did not fund Technolust, it was a game that was a kickstarted, and Blair Renaud is a proponent of ReVive and condones its use. They had no say in the Oculus Home version of their game blocking the Vive, in the past they actually encouraged Vive owners to use ReVive to play their game.

 

[Froli]

Glad Vive is here.

 

[Paganmoon]

Reminds me of all those bundled games included with 3D cards in the 90s.

Stuff like Mechwarrior 2 included with the Monster 3D would *ONLY* run with Diamond's drivers - the reference drivers wouldn't run the game. Same deal with Motorhead and a number of others. I still have so many of those discs but, alas, they are now useless without those original cards.

well not exactly the same, since that was just for the discs bundled with the card right. You could still play Mechwarrior 2 with other cards if bought separately.

 

[mrklaw]

My biggest wtf is how badly oculus are misreading the PC market. Keeping the store open (or turning a blind eye) is the best way to get vive owners to buy a rift. If you already have a vive you aren't likely to buy a CV1, but an open store will allow you to play oculus games and keeps the oculus brand in your head. So when CV2 comes out, people may be more inclined to consider that over a vive 2.

What they are doing now will do the exact opposite. People will dismiss CV2 without even considering it because of oculus' actions.

 

[Mik2121]

I have a DK2 and I had to delete the Rift Store thing because it would automatically boot up every now and then when doing stuff unrelated to it. It is really annoying.

After reading this and all the shit that they do like the persistent message saying my rift is dated and my PC specs are not good enough, they are some of the most annoying software devs I have purchased stuff from for a while now.

For the next round of Rift / Vive models, I will most definitely go with the vive.

 

[Cipherr]

I own a Rift and this is dumb. Come on, Oculus.

Nothing he has said is consistent with this. It's probably coming from facebook, that's the only way that makes any sense at all.

I still remember that thread here on GAF when some folks were worried when FB bought Oculus, but were straight up shouted down for being stupid about worrying over it.

 

[cheezcake]

My biggest wtf is how badly oculus are misreading the PC market. Keeping the store open (or turning a blind eye) is the best way to get vive owners to buy a rift. If you already have a vive you aren't likely to buy a CV1, but an open store will allow you to play oculus games and keeps the oculus brand in your head. So when CV2 comes out, people may be more inclined to consider that over a vive 2.

What they are doing now will do the exact opposite. People will dismiss CV2 without even considering it because of oculus' actions.

They're accelerating the death of their storefront. You gotta ask how CV1 owners are gonna react to this as well, if I had a CV1 I'd prioritize buying every game on steam and only using Oculus Store as a last resort. When you're going against an incumbent as big as Steam this shit isn't going to do you any favors.

 

[mrklaw]

Considering how much VR currently depends on indie developers, and how much they need a large addressable market to make a return, this could really backfire on oculus similar to how the parity clause backfired on MS for Xbox one. oculus seem to be trying to force their hand by only providing SDKs to developers releasing in their store, but couldn't devs simoly move over to openVR and sell only through steam, and still work on both rift and vive?

 

[Zaptruder]

They're accelerating the death of their storefront. You gotta ask how CV1 owners are gonna react to this as well, if I had a CV1 I'd prioritize buying every game on steam and only using Oculus Store as a last resort. When you're going against an incumbent as big as Steam this shit isn't going to do you any favors.

Seriously.

The Climb is the last game I buy from Oculus, even though there's a bunch of interesting looking Oculus Touch experiences coming out.

 

[Nokterian]

Well one of the reasons i stay from it because of facebook and there terrible practices sure i have facebook but what do you do when there is no alternative to facebook right?

I really want to try VR someday but seeing this i am not surprised by it since Zuckerberg doesn't give a damn he has reign over Oculus and does what he sees fit.

 

[Turin Turambar]

I wonder if you people put a big image logo of Valve every time you try to launch Dota 2 outside of Steam and it doesn't work...

 

[Paz]

I wonder if you people put a big image logo of Valve every time you try to launch Dota 2 outside of Steam and it doesn't work...

Most disingenuous comparison I've seen in some time.

Quite simply ridiculous, please look inwards and think about why you would want to say something like this, who are you even doing it for?

 

[bee]

switched my oculus pre order to a vive a couple of months ago, still not got the vive but it's looking a better and better decision by the day

 

[Trouble]

Presumptuous as hell to try to lock-in like this when their main storefront competitor is Steam. I think Steam did the smart thing with OpenVR being HMD agnostic.

 

[jmga]

Oculus will be dead in four years if they keep going through this route.

Google will dominate mobile VR with Daydream and Valve the PC market with SteamVR.

It is a matter of open vs closed.

 

[Nokterian]

switched my oculus pre order to a vive a couple of months ago, still not got the vive but it's looking a better and better decision by the day

My guess everyone has that..the moment facebook bought Oculus it was doomed (pun not intended but now it is) really there policies are the worst and for one i just don't trust facebook.

 

[Wrestlemania]

This is extra annoying because, having owned both, Rift was by far my favourite or the two with a better headset and software. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[Krejlooc]

Oculus will be dead in four years if they keep going through this route.

Google will dominate mobile VR with Daydream and Valve the PC market with SteamVR.

It is a matter of open vs closed.

To me, as a developer, Daydream sounds way more appealing than GearVR as a platform, just because multiple hardware manufacturers are involved, including samsung.

 

[Manoko]

Oculus poisoning the well they've been working to bring out to the public.

Oh well, will be Vive 2nd generation HDM for me.

 

[Wollan]

I won't deprive myself of their exclusive software to prove a point (life's too short) as I already have the headset but it certainly helps cement me in the direction of not picking up version 2 in 2017 or whenever. The PC marked should stay open.

And now Gear VR is becoming insignificant (and will likely disappear within two years) thanks to Google announcing Daydream VR. A lib created in concert with the OS that's stepping in at the right time, open to everyone with reference hardware design etc.

 

[KingSnake]

I won't deprive myself of their exclusive software to prove a point (life's too short) as I already have the headset but it certainly helps cement me in the direction of not picking up version 2 in 2017 or whenever. The PC marked should stay open.

And now Gear VR is becoming insignificant (and will likely disappear within two years) thanks to Google announcing Daydream VR. A lib created in concert with the OS that's stepping in at the right time, open to everyone with reference hardware design etc.

It's practically Oculus trying to become Apple, but on top of other's ecosystems. Which could work only in a world without competition on the same ecosystems. Especially when your uniqueness is driven by artificial barriers.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

The thing is, that if they add that HMD DRM now, what would happen to all the games I bought on the Oculus store if I switch to Vive 2 or another VR HMD for the next generation.

It means its like a console. Everything I bought will be useless unless I buy Oculus CV2 and thats really really bad.

 

[Chili]

The thing is, that if they add that HMD DRM now, what would happen to all the games I bought on the Oculus store if I switch to Vive 2 or another VR HMD for the next generation.

It means its like a console. Everything I bought will be useless unless I buy Oculus CV2 and thats really really bad.

Yeah, I think that is the intention. I'm glad I did not end up buying Chronos which I was strongly considering before this.

 

[justsomeguy]

. This affects everything on Oculus Home, not just the exclusives they funded. ... To clarify with a real world example - Technolust uses the Oculus SDK to run. If you buy it from Oculus Home, you can't run it using ReVive because their DRM blocks you. If you get the very same game on Steam, or directly through Blair Renaud, then you can use ReVive to run it on the vive because there is no DRM in the first place. Oculus did not fund Technolust, it was a game that was a kickstarted, and Blair Renaud is a proponent of ReVive and condones its use. They had no say in the Oculus Home version of their game blocking the Vive, in the past they actually encouraged Vive owners to use ReVive to play their game.

Ugh. Thanks for the detailed reply. Well, I guess the market will decide.

 

[Krejlooc]

I won't deprive myself of their exclusive software to prove a point (life's too short) as I already have the headset but it certainly helps cement me in the direction of not picking up version 2 in 2017 or whenever. The PC marked should stay open.

It's still much smarter to buy games available at multiple storefronts from any place besides Oculus Home, however, even if you have a rift. This is really dumb DRM, and could affect you going forward if you choose a non-oculus second gen headset.

 

[Wallach]

It's still much smarter to buy games available at multiple storefronts from any place besides Oculus Home, however, even if you have a rift. This is really dumb DRM, and could affect you going forward if you choose a non-oculus second gen headset.

I'm thinking about cutting my losses, backing out of the Oculus ecosystem altogether and just dealing with what I don't like about the Vive. I like the Rift hardware but I don't know as it is worth waiting to see if they are going to pull their head out of their ass.

 

[Wollan]

Certainly. All VR apps that I can buy on a 'non-HMD exclusive' store ala Steam I will buy there instead of Oculus Home.

 

[KungFucius]

It makes sense that they would block others from using their software, but it is likely a strategy that is not going to pay off unless they can amass such a huge library of exclusives and have a Rift 2 or 3 that is so much better than the Vive that Vive owners would choose Rift as their upgrade and keep their Vive for Vive exclusives. However it may also cause Vive owners to ignore Rift entirely because they can't interact with that platform at all.

I am expecting timed exclusives only unless FB starts buying up some developers.

 

[Sir Blaming]

I am just here for the slaughter.
Anyway, I don't understand oculus doing this. Everyone who wishes to buy their product are informed consumers, people with high end machines.
To me this just a shot to the foot. Foolish at best.

 

[Paganmoon]

Revive update with first DRM bypass:

https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive/releases/tag/0.5.2

Only Unreal Engine games so far it seems, Unity in the works.

 

[Wallach]

Revive update with first DRM bypass:

https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive/releases/tag/0.5.2

Only Unreal Engine games so far it seems, Unity in the works.

Frankly this is exactly what was coming. You give people a reason to actually try to get through DRM and they will.

I hope he succeeds in full. Until they wake up... fuck 'em.

 

[Hari Seldon]

They probably should have waited until they had some real killer exclusives to pull this lol. This is worse than MS doing the Win10 store exclusive crap on their extremely underwhelming PC catelogue.

 

[mrklaw]

If he gets this working for chronos and blaze rush I'll try and block the oculus client from updating and just play those and not buy anything in the future.

Is there a good way to stop an app dialling out?

 

[Wallach]

They probably should have waited until they had some real killer exclusives to pull this lol. This is worse than MS doing the Win10 store exclusive crap on their extremely underwhelming PC catelogue.

They have a few decent exclusives already, but what is really required to pull a bullshit move like this is to already have a lot of people invested. Who the fuck is invested yet? Sure, there are guys like me who are early adopters, but they basically closed the gates with the vast majority of the wold still outside. I just don't get it from any angle.

 

[Paganmoon]

If he gets this working for chronos and blaze rush I'll try and block the oculus client from updating and just play those and not buy anything in the future.

Is there a good way to stop an app dialling out?

Windows firewall, set the executable to blocked in the outbound rules

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Just saw this on reddit:

 

[Paganmoon]

btw, doesn't anyone have the old runtime installer? just upload it somewhere and let people revert back to that could be another solution until Revive bypasses the DRM fully.

 

[Peltz]

I've never really gotten this line of thinking. Facebook's entire business model is spreading that product thin & making it as ubiquitous as possible. They've never really walled off a garden like this, and their MO with acquisitions has always been about being hands off.

Face it. Oculus is making these decisions of their own volition. You're free to blame the Zucker-boogeyman, but the fault more than likely lies within.

Probably true.

 

[bj00rn_]

As an "old Oculus fan" I'm saddened by the way things are going right now. This was not how it was going to happen. What happened to the idealistic talks about everyone heading in the same direction together to get the VR momentum going. This is not that.. this is going hostile.

I would even go as far as warn every Rift owner out there to think well and hard about buying anything more from the Oculus store unless they are 100% certain they will for the rest of their lives never ever again buy a non-Oculus/facebook HMD.

 

[Cyto]

Nobody expected this? Seriously?