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Official 2007 NBA Playoffs Thread - In Memory of Agent Zero

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bionic77 said:
Not to disparage Nash because I think he is a great player, but the Suns a sixth seed?

They seemed to do just fine against the 7th seed in the West without Nash on the court. Face it, the Suns are stacked. And teams that talented are going to win a lot of games. They would not win as many games without Nash, but you are exaggerating his importance.
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Uh, the Suns have a losing record without him the past few years (something like 4-11). Sixth seed is generous. What exactly are you even basing that analysis on? Certainly not the Suns falling apart without him yesterday or any regular season statistics (which is really what would be relevant in considering hypothetical playoff seeding anyway).
 
bionic77 said:
People are going to call me crazy, but Duncan hasn't looked like himself since they won the championship in 2005. I don't know if he is not yet fully recovered or what the problem is, but he is not as effective on offense as he used to be. At times I see guys like Nene and Stoudamire pushing him around and making him ineffective. The old Duncan was pretty much unstoppable.

He can still get it done, but he isn't as good as he used to be.
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On offense, I think Duncan is still about the same. He dominated the game on offense yesterday. On defense, Duncan has always had trouble with quick, athletic guys (amare was a monster in 2005). Other than that, Duncan should have probably been DPOY over Camby.
 
AstroLad said:
Uh, the Suns have a losing record without him the past few years (something like 4-11). Sixth seed is generous. What exactly are you even basing that analysis on? Certainly not the Suns falling apart without him yesterday or any regular season statistics (which is really what would be relevant in considering hypothetical playoff seeding anyway).
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I don't think you can use Suns' record without Nash. D'antoni doesn't adjust without having their pg.

For example, when Wade went down, you don't see Riley isolating the ball to Eddie Jones at the top of the key like they do with Wade. No, they learn to adjust without Wade and give it to Shaq in the post.

D'antoni still runs the same plays with Barbosa that he does with Nash. They need to adjust their playbook when Nash isn't there.
 
woodchuck said:
I don't think you can use Suns' record without Nash. D'antoni doesn't adjust without having their pg.

For example, when Wade went down, you don't see Riley isolating the ball to Eddie Jones at the top of the key like they do with Wade. No, they learn to adjust without Wade and give it to Shaq in the post.

D'antoni still runs the same plays with Barbosa that he does with Nash. They need to adjust their playbook when Nash isn't there.
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Well that response was to bionic re what the Suns' record would be without Nash, regardless of the cause. I think your D'Antoni argument is wrong, but let's not collide multiple hypothetical universes here or we'll wind up discussing what the Riley-led Suns could achieve with Baron Davis feeding it to Garnett.
 
AstroLad said:
Uh, the Suns have a losing record without him the past few years (something like 4-11). Sixth seed is generous. What exactly are you even basing that analysis on? Certainly not the Suns falling apart without him yesterday or any regular season statistics (which is really what would be relevant in considering hypothetical playoff seeding anyway).
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As I just said, they seemed to do fine against the 7th seed with or without Nash. That might say more about the Lakers then Nash, but I still think the Suns are a pretty good team with or without Nash. I obviously have not watched the Suns as much as you, but they seem like a stacked team with or without Nash and I believe they would still have great success against the middle to lower tier teams.

Now that I think a little more about your comments, sixth seed seems appropriate for their talent level without Nash.
 
bionic77 said:
As I just said, they seemed to do fine against the 7th seed with or without Nash. That might say more about the Lakers then Nash, but I still think the Suns are a pretty good team with or without Nash. I obviously have not watched the Suns as much as you, but they seem like a stacked team with or without Nash and I believe they would still have great success against the middle to lower tier teams.

Now that I think a little more about your comments, sixth seed seems appropriate for their talent level without Nash.
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Yes, this isn't b/c the Suns would be awful without Nash but b/c of how good the WC is (well, I'm starting to feel that the Pistons will knock out the remnants of whatever team comes out of the West, but I digress).
 
AstroLad said:
Yes, this isn't b/c the Suns would be awful without Nash but b/c of how good the WC is (well, I'm starting to feel that the Pistons will knock out the remnants of whatever team comes out of the West, but I digress).
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I also agree that Detroit has a chance to win it all.

And I am very afraid of another Spurs/Pistons finals. If there are any casual basketball fans left this will certainly be the final straw.
 
bionic77 said:
I also agree that Detroit has a chance to win it all.

And I am very afraid of another Spurs/Pistons finals. If there are any casual basketball fans left this will certainly be the final straw.
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Because fundamentally sound basketball is so goddamn awful, amirite?
 
bionic77 said:
People are going to call me crazy, but Duncan hasn't looked like himself since they won the championship in 2005. I don't know if he is not yet fully recovered or what the problem is, but he is not as effective on offense as he used to be. At times I see guys like Nene and Stoudamire pushing him around and making him ineffective. The old Duncan was pretty much unstoppable.

He can still get it done, but he isn't as good as he used to be.
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You crazy. Duncan is so damn good in the post it's not even funny. I don't know why most people aren't able to appreciate him. It's not like he's Shaq, he has a ton of moves. You can almost see his defenders start to panic when he goes to work on them. He's also a very underated passer.

With the way he dominated the Suns yesterday I really don't thing his skills are dimminished in the least, if anything he's finaly healthy.
 
reilo said:
Because fundamentally sound basketball is so goddamn awful, amirite?
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No, ugly basketball is not fun to watch.

And everytime the Spurs get to the finals it is has been stink city, including the Pistons/Spurs series where no one could make anything.

edit: Kangu I still think Duncan is a great player, I just don't he is as good as he used to be. Don't get me wrong, if Duncan retired today he would already be regarded as the 2nd greatest power forward of all time immediately behind A.C. Green. But, Duncan didn't look like himself last year due to his injury and this year he still doesn't seem as unstoppable as he once was.
 
bionic77 said:
No, ugly basketball is not fun to watch.

And everytime the Spurs get to the finals it is has been stink city, including the Pistons/Spurs series where no one could make anything.
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It's strange though, both teams can be very competent offensively when they put their minds to it, but put them together on the court and it's just hideos.
 
Wow I just heard on a sportstalk show that Rafer Alston played 44 MINUTES A GAME!

God we need a point guard. He should get 15-20 MAX(which means he shouldn't even be starting).
 
bionic77 said:
No, ugly basketball is not fun to watch.

And everytime the Spurs get to the finals it is has been stink city, including the Pistons/Spurs series where no one could make anything.

edit: Kangu I still think Duncan is a great player, I just don't he is as good as he used to be. Don't get me wrong, if Duncan retired today he would already be regarded as the 2nd greatest power forward of all time immediately behind A.C. Green. But, Duncan didn't look like himself last year due to his injury and this year he still doesn't seem as unstoppable as he once was.
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??????????
 
Smokey Bones said:
Wow I just heard on a sportstalk show that Rafer Alston played 44 MINUTES A GAME!

God we need a point guard. He should get 15-20 MAX(which means he shouldn't even be starting).
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Well, you could have drafted Jarrett Jack, but you chose Luther Head instead. Sucks for you.
 
woodchuck said:
I don't know what he's smoking either. Samaki Walker > AC Green
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Obviously Walker is destined for the Hall of Fame, but when you consider that AC Green accomplished what he did while being a virgin, I think the nod goes to Mr. Absolute Chastity.

Get back to me when you can find another NBA player who has met or exceeded that accomplishment.
 
bionic77 said:
Obviously Walker is destined for the Hall of Fame, but when you consider that AC Green accomplished what he did while being a virgin, I think the nod goes to Mr. Absolute Chastity.

Get back to me when you can find another NBA player who has met or exceeded that accomplishment.
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Virgin my ass. He likes his fat white women!

Mandie__AC_Green.JPG
 
bionic77 said:
Obviously Walker is destined for the Hall of Fame, but when you consider that AC Green accomplished what he did while being a virgin, I think the nod goes to Mr. Absolute Chastity.

Get back to me when you can find another NBA player who has met or exceeded that accomplishment.
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It's not like AC Green chose to be a virgin for chastity purposes. Magic would always just steal his women.
 
reilo said:
Virgin my ass. He likes his fat white women!
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The same can be said of all NBA players.

And are you calling AC Green a liar?

edit:
woodchuck said:
It's not like AC Green chose to be a virgin for chastity purposes. Magic would always just steal his women.
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Magic never stole anything from anybody. He just had a lot of love to give to millions of women he encountered in his NBA travels.

AC Green is a man of God. Looks obviously have very little to do with an NBA player's ability to get women. Look at Popeye Jones, Sam Caseell, Jordan, etc. Too many to even name and they all got it done. AC Green chose not to. Just like Cedric Ceballos chose not to win an NBA championship.
 
woodchuck said:
If anything, Duncan should win MVP. He probably has the highest +/- out of MVP candidates.

yup.

Duncan - 9.6
Dirk - 8.1 (highest efficiency)
Nash - 7.9
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Where do you get +/- stats? Also, I'd like to see the difference in +/- for the top 3 on each team. That's a better indicator of value IMO...
 
Cloudy said:
Where do you get +/- stats? Also, I'd like to see the difference in +/- for the top 3 on each team. That's a better indicator of value IMO...
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http://www.popcornmachine.net/GameFlows.html

They also have +/- for individual games and stretches in games.

I probably shouldn't have used +/- though. You can't jump to conclusions based on just +/- since there are so many variables.

82games.com also keeps track of how the team does with the player on the court as opposed to off the court. They take the net difference between the two and also factor in PER, called the Roland Rating.
 
Roland ratings of the top 3 players on MVP candidates teams:

Kobe +12.4
Odom +1.5
Walton +0.1

(No OTHER Lakers player has a positive rating and Walton is at 0.1!)

James +12.4
Ilgauskas +4.4
Pavlovic +2.4

Nowitzki +15.7
Howard +8.1
Terry +6.5

Nash +9.9
Marion +7.3
Stoudemire +6.0

Duncan +14.9
Ginobili +13.1
Parker +8.1


Like I've argued on here so many times. No one is more valuable to their teams than Kobe and Bron. Obviously the rating is higher for the better teams but looking at the top 3guys on each team puts it in perspective...
 
Cloudy said:
Roland ratings of the top 3 players on MVP candidates teams:

Kobe +12.4
Odom +1.5
Walton +0.1

(No OTHER Lakers player has a positive rating and Walton is at 0.1!)

James +12.4
Ilgauskas +4.4
Pavlovic +2.4

Nowitzki +15.7
Howard +8.1
Terry +6.5

Nash +9.9
Marion +7.3
Stoudemire +6.0

Duncan +14.9
Ginobili +13.1
Parker +8.1


Like I've argued on here so many times. No one is more valuable to their teams than Kobe and Bron. Obviously the rating is higher for the better teams but looking at the top 3guys on each team puts it in perspective...
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And I can counter that Kobe argument with "Duncan, Nash, Nowitzki, and Lebron make their teammates better..."
 
woodchuck said:
Are those playoff stats? Matt Barnes was unbelievable
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I couldn't believe it either. Dude was so off/on during the regular season, didn't think he'd actually bring it and Al Harrington would suck it up.
 
reilo said:
And I can counter that Kobe argument with "Duncan, Nash, Nowitzki, and Lebron make their teammates better..."
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Suns:

Marion before Nash - +1.4
Marion with Nash - +7.3

Boom!!! He makes his teammates better!! :D
 
methodman said:
Matt Barnes +12.4
Baron Davis +8.2
SJAX +5.5
J-Rich +5.1

The UCLA LEGEND, Matt Barnes baby!
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READY?

clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap

U

clap-clap-clap

C

clap-clap-clap

LLLLLLLLLLLLLL

clap-clap-clap

A

clap-clap-clap

U-C-L-A FIGHT-FIGHT-FIGHT
 
Fifty said:
Yawn. I wouldn't be surprised if Detroit didn't lose a single game until the NBA finals at this rate.
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I'm going to make some eggs with lots of cheese and plenty of milk. I'm pissed that this crap is on now, when I have nothing to do but cry into a plate of eggs, but the Warriors game is opposite 24. Stupid scheduling...
 
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