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[Mama Smurf]

Thanks, the demo seems to run ok.

Chelsea - Man Utd has been moved to the second to last game of the season. That's no fun, there's a strong chance the title will be secured by then.

 

[Stevie Gerrard]

I don't hate Chelsea, but I seem to be alone in that amongst non-Chelsea fans.

I don't hate chelsea either and I get annoyed with liverpool fans who regard them as enemies in the same way as man united and everton. It just seems bitter to me.

I do hate fat fwank and robben though.

 

[kaizoku]

how can you not dislike chelsea? They almost singlehandedly represent everything bad about our game

cheating and diving - they have the worst offenders!
negavtive tactics
buying trophies
pressure refs, even causing one to retire early
horrible conduct aka the celebration at WHL and stamping on a guy when he's down
kidnapping mikel and pressuring him to break the law to sign for them
undignified winners and sorry losers
their fans thinking they're suddenly a great club
that horrible kenyon screwing up our transfers before moving to chelsea and swooping up our targets with his inside info.



I dont see them as enemies like liverpool, I dont respect them as rivals like arsenal, as a football/sports fan and a person I just find them disgusting. slimy horrible club.

p.s. have you heard about the situation at Hearts? A russian buyer has bought them similar to abramovich except he has fired the manager, put his friend in charge, and has his friends playing in the team as well. Its like a real life championship manager. the fans must be heartbroken.

 

[Shinobi]

Then when the stewards have the fan on the ground Drogba and Cole make sure to get their kicks in. Most hateful team or what.

Yeah, it's nothing like when Cantona did a flying kick into the ****ing stands. And yet you regard him as a hero. :lol

Once a fan enters the field of play, he's fair game. Drogba and Judas sent a message to any fan who even thinks of stepping up to one of their own again. If you do so, you're getting stomped into the ground. I say God bless any athlete who gives out the same treatment, because frankly you have no idea what someone like that plans to do, or has on his body.

 

[kaizoku]

Yeah, it's nothing like when Cantona did a flying kick into the ****ing stands. And yet you regard him as a hero. :lol

Once a fan enters the field of play, he's fair game. Drogba and Judas sent a message to any fan who even thinks of stepping up to one of their own again. If you do so, you're getting stomped into the ground. I say God bless any athlete who gives out the same treatment, because frankly you have no idea what someone like that plans to do, or has on his body.

hey if someone offends me, its ok if I attack him. if we slug it out - fine.

if someone is on the ground with his legs sticking out of 5 bodies on top, its cowardly and meaningless to run over, stomp on his ankles and try to sneak punches in before he is taken away. I mean wtf. Not only was it cowardly, but the team jumping in to attack a spurs fan could have easily sparked a riot with the other fans, good job mourinho led the players away cos they looked like they were enjoying it.

so you see, theres a big difference. one is the act of a man, the other is of cowards.

 

[Mama Smurf]

cheating and diving - they have the worst offenders!

They have offenders. Every team does, I don't think Chelsea are much worse than anyone else. They're more high profile though, no one's interested in Wigan (for example) players diving when they can point the finger at the top teams.

negavtive tactics

Doesn't bother me, I admire the ability to defender as much as attack. I wouldn't want everyone to play like that, but then I wouldn't want everyone to attack all the time either, I like the variety. In fact, I'm actually enjoying watching Chelsea less this year when when they're actually being more attacking than in the rest of Mourinho's reign. I used to choose to watch their Champions league matches over others, now I'm checking out the other English team that night.

buying trophies

You can't buy a trophy. They haven't managed to buy the FA Cup or the Champions League yet. What you can do is spend to the point where you have a good chance of winning trophies, but at the end of the day you can only put 11 men out on the pitch like anyone else. The sad fact of the matter is, the more money you have, the more successful you'll become. That's for all clubs, not just Chelsea. Did they gradually build a reputation and fanbase over decades and gain their money that way? Nope, but why should they? Money's money, whether it comes form a massive fanbse or a single backer.

pressure refs, even causing one to retire early

You know, I see refs or linesmen being gone at as much as they did that time every week. They;re just not in as high profile game, because you almost never get games as big as Chelsea - Barcelona. Perhaps they shouldn't, though my personal feeling is you should be allowed to criticize a ref freely, but it happens all the time with many, many teams. Refs don't retire normally, and he wouldn't have in this case if some dumbass Chelsea "fans" hadn't written death threats. They're responsible for controlling their fans at and around their grounds, but there's really nothing Chelsea can do about their fans at home.

You could say I hate certain Chelsea fans though.

horrible conduct aka the celebration at WHL and stamping on a guy when he's down
kidnapping mikel and pressuring him to break the law to sign for them

I didn't really like the Mikel thing, but it's not enough to make me hate them. Most teams do some things I don't like, even Chelsea.

I don't think their conduct at White Hart Lane was horrible, I just think it was weird and out of proportion with the victory. They can celebrate however much they want, I felt the same way after Neville showed his shirt emblem to the Liverpool fans that time.

I can understand their anger at that fan, after all he could have done anything. To get that close to their teammate, and probably their friend? What if he'd had a knife, a simple thing to get into a ground? I don't agree with violence answering violence, I'd have preferred nothing to happen, but I don't think the reaction was that bad. Not compared to, say, Cantona.

undignified winners and sorry losers

You mean they celebrate when they win and they're pissed off when they lose? Welcome to every team in the world. I do think Mourinho complains a bit too much when things go against him, but I can't say I've noticed them being bad winners.

their fans thinking they're suddenly a great club

I don't know any Chelsea fans personally, and even if I did I wouldn't judge the team on the fans. And they are suddenly a great club.

that horrible kenyon screwing up our transfers before moving to chelsea and swooping up our targets with his inside info.

Yeah, I really don't care about that, though I imagine it grates as a United fan.

p.s. have you heard about the situation at Hearts? A russian buyer has bought them similar to abramovich except he has fired the manager, put his friend in charge, and has his friends playing in the team as well. Its like a real life championship manager. the fans must be heartbroken.

This has been going on ages, if Chelsea were run like that then I'd probably hate them. Or I'd hate the owner anyway.

There are things I don't like about Chelsea (most I mentioned above), but things I do like (their team spirit, most of the players, I find Mourinho funny, how organised they are, how they never give up, the way they've strengthened the Premiership as rival teams have had to up their game to keep up) and that goes for pretty much every team.

Except Burnley. I hate Burnley.

 

[psycho_snake]

Swing and a miss from a Spurs fan last night. Lampard with the bob and weave...

:lol Brilliant

 

[Ghost]

Thanks, the demo seems to run ok.

Chelsea - Man Utd has been moved to the second to last game of the season. That's no fun, there's a strong chance the title will be secured by then.

Na, Chelsea can win, then West Ham can cost Man U the title on the last day of the season again. Thus turning our season from an unprecidented failure into a resounding success in one game.

 

[Blablurn]

great movie, lampard xD

 

[Ronok]

The situation at arsenal has revealed the lack of quality some players have - rosicky, hleb, baptista, et al...they just aren't the kind of quality, consistency, and killer players that arsenal need if they want to be up there in England and Europe. Yesterday was awful

Rosicky and Hleb? I don't think I can agree with that. Whilst Hleb hasn't been on top form in recent games, before his string of injuries he was on top form and playing very well.. The same really goes for Rosicky as well... They both need to score more goals though. :-/

If you're going to mention anyone it should be Aliadiere.... So awful... Half the match I was hoping for Walcott to come on to replace him injured shoulder and all... Baptista is getting into good positions but for some reason can't score to save his life..... Sometimes he looks a bit fat and slow as well. v.v;;

 

[Mama Smurf]

That'd be funny, but the worry is even if Chelsea and West Ham beat United, they'll win anyway because their goal difference is so much better. We need them to drop points (while Chelsea win every game) before then to have a chance of it going down to the Chelsea game at least.

There's fuck all football news this week, I guess because of the internationals. Almost no games until Saturday too, certainly none I care about, definitely because of the internationals.

At least we have this aturday to look forward to. I think I'll watch these:

Saturday

12:30 England U21 v Italy U21 Friendly (first match at the new Wembley)
15:00 Rep of Ireland v Wales ECQ / Brazil v Chile Friendly
17:00 Lithuania v France ECQ
18:30 Israel v England ECQ
19:45 Czech Rep v Germany ECQ
21:00 Portugal v Belgium / Spain v Denmark ECQ

 

[Ryck]

That'd be funny, but the worry is even if Chelsea and West Ham beat United, they'll win anyway because their goal difference is so much better. We need them to drop points (while Chelsea win every game) before then to have a chance of it going down to the Chelsea game at least.

Please don't root for this...... : \

I hope Chelsea loses two games and falls completely out of reach...what are the odds of that tho.

 

[Mama Smurf]

I just want a close race for as long as possible, I don't mind which one of you wins in the end.

And the most esciting part of that long race was going to be the game bwteen the two of you. There was no way the title was going to be won by then, it would have been the biggest league game of the year. It still might be, but there's a much larger chance it won't be now.

 

[hadareud]

I hate the days leading up to internationals, like Mama Smurf said there's **** all going on.

 

[Ronok]

Yup, international week is pretty dull these days, I used to get really excited about it, but, now I don't really like watching England play..... They are such a let down imo opinion that it just kind of depresses me. :-/ Even when there was less chance of England winning anything I used to have hope, but now I really have lost the faith.. Maybe if they get a decent/exciting combination up front who I can chear for things will turn around, as it is though I can't be bothered.

 

[Lakitu]

Yawn... international breaks are so boring, granted any football is good, but now I have to wait 10 damn days to watch Liverpool vs. Arsenal.

 

[kaizoku]

Maybe you're reading too much into it mama, I mean, why does everyone hate ashley cole now? on paper maybe his behaviour is reasonable, but at the same time he comes across as such a distasteful disgusting little scab.

The celebrations at WHL did not look like good team spirit imo, it was more like a team of flash gits trying to show the world they are passionate, and in a calculated move trying to wind up the spurs fans.

I can excuse gary neville as he's a manc and mancs hate scousers and vice versa, these 2 cities share that kind of relationship. similar for Utd players celebrating their last gasp win at anfield, it was a genuinely euphoric moment shared by players and fans because of who we beat and how.

but chelsea played a rather comfortable win over spurs and made a point of shoving it down the fans throats. it came across as orchestrated rather than genuine emotions overflowing and thats why the club leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

and they are not a great club all of a sudden, they have no history or tradition, their status is built on corrupt money and greedy players. their fanbase has suddenly grew and so on. sorry but "greatness" is more than just becoming a rich club.

 

[Lakitu]

I can excuse gary neville as he's a manc and mancs hate scousers and vice versa, these 2 cities share that kind of relationship. similar for Utd players celebrating their last gasp win at anfield, it was a genuinely euphoric moment shared by players and fans because of who we beat and how.

Everything about it summed up to be the worst footballing day of my life.

 

[kaizoku]

Everything about it summed up to be the worst footballing day of my life.

you've done it to us as well so you have to suck it up when its our time to gloat!!

but I have a bad feeling you guys will win Europe again so I'm not teasing you.

Meanwhile poor Ted Bates statue has to be pulled down after they pulled down the curtains to unveil:

I feel for his family! but why didnt anyone stop to say "hold on, somethings not right here" BEFORE it was unveiled.

 

[Shinobi]

so you see, theres a big difference. one is the act of a man, the other is of cowards.

Yeah, like Cantona flying into the stands...oops!

Funny how you ignored that point the first time...let's see if it keeps going.

The only thing the Chelsea players did wrong was allow that twat to walk off the pitch...he should've been carried out on a stretcher. :lol

Here are the North American lists for the fixtures on Saturday and Wednesday...

http://www.livesoccertv.com/fixture-2007-03-24.php

http://www.livesoccertv.com/fixture-2007-03-28.php

Both England matches are PPV's, which makes sense since they've got a decent following here.

Also of note is the USA playing Chille on Sunday (12pm EST, ESPN 2), and Guatemala on Wednesday (9pm EST, ESPN 2).

 

[Mama Smurf]

Maybe you're reading too much into it mama, I mean, why does everyone hate ashley cole now? on paper maybe his behaviour is reasonable, but at the same time he comes across as such a distasteful disgusting little scab.

I don't hate Ashley Cole.

The celebrations at WHL did not look like good team spirit imo, it was more like a team of flash gits trying to show the world they are passionate, and in a calculated move trying to wind up the spurs fans.

Surely this is reading too much into it rather than thinking a team celebrating are just overly happy.

I could believe a team, any team, could delibrately orchestrate something if there's some gain in it...but there's absolutely nothing to gain from delibrately riling up other fans. There are risks to it, but no positives.

I can excuse gary neville as he's a manc and mancs hate scousers and vice versa, these 2 cities share that kind of relationship. similar for Utd players celebrating their last gasp win at anfield, it was a genuinely euphoric moment shared by players and fans because of who we beat and how.

Well like I say, I think both instances are fine. You've already excused United for two things that are at least on the same level as what Chelsea have done though, whilst condemning the latter.

but chelsea played a rather comfortable win over spurs and made a point of shoving it down the fans throats. it came across as orchestrated rather than genuine emotions overflowing and thats why the club leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Same answer as above.

and they are not a great club all of a sudden, they have no history or tradition, their status is built on corrupt money and greedy players. their fanbase has suddenly grew and so on. sorry but "greatness" is more than just becoming a rich club.

I think there are different ways of becoming great. I wouldn't say they were one of the best clubs ever, although they've made a good start, but they're certainly great. They're only the second team to successfully defend the Premiership title, they hold the all time record for goals conceded in a league season (15), they hold the record for the most wins in a Premiership season, the most points in a Premiership season, the British tranfer record, the player with the most consecutive appearances, the longest consecutive run without conceding a goal and have many of the best players in the world.

To me, that adds up to a great club. A sudden great club, who could just as suddenly disappear, but great all the same. They've got a long way to go to be a club up there with Liverpool, United, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, AC Milan etc, but I'd use a bigger term than great for those sides. Or perhaps just add on all-time...all-time great sides.

 

[kaizoku]

Yeah, like Cantona flying into the stands...oops!

Funny how you ignored that point the first time...let's see if it keeps going.

Ignored what point? I said that what Cantona did was understandable, silly but he's a man and he paid the price. Its a man attacking another man for whatever offence.

Its not athletes ganging up on a drunk yob while he's on the floor under a mass of bodies with limbs sticking out, and players diving in to try and punch and kick him through the stewards. Thats not how you behave ffs. Police dont do it, stewards dont do it, normal people dont do it.

If some psycho tried to hit YOU but was quickly smothered by poice who had been tailing him would you then rush over and try to kick his head in despite the situation being under control??

whatever man, if you cant understand the concept of cowardly attacks then thats your problem. This is just basic common sense. Its not outrageous, offensive or brave, its just petty and pathetic - just like chelsea.

and if you can attach those words to cantona's attack you must be joking. It was stupid, violent, crazy, but it wasn't pathetic, cowardly or petty.

I guess its the difference with me finding it shameful when a player goes down gripping his face for no reason or waving imaginary yellow cards - whilst you guys find it ok.

 

[Cornballer]

Also of note is the USA playing Chille on Sunday (12pm EST, ESPN 2), and Guatemala on Wednesday (9pm EST, ESPN 2).

Actually, we're playing Ecuador on Sunday. Should be an interesting match as we might start a few young midfielders that play in Europe (Feilhaber from Hamburg and Bradley from Heerenveen). I've only seen them play a few times before, but supposedly they could be the center midfield paring of the future. Ecuador were a solid side in the WC, but I don't know if they brought their A team.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Cantona's thing was so much worse than this new incident. And it's all those things you just said, cowardly, petty and pathetic.

He was verbally attacked. That's all. Every footballer is verbally attacked, especially if they've been sent off. It happens every week. You ignore it, there's no danger, there never is from verbal abuse. I think you should be able to swear back, though you're not, but he didn't even do that. He just attacked the guy. It's petty because it was just the same verbal abuse he got every game of his life and is nothing, it's pathetic because it's so out of proportion with what was done to him and it's cowardly because he's a superfit footballer with studs in his boots kicking a fat fan in his unprotected chest without even any physical attempt on himself.

 

[kaizoku]

thats interesting Mama Smurf, I dunno why your point of view is so off base with the majority of people in this area (inc city fans) and on all other forums I visit to discuss football and the sense you get from national papers etc.

chelsea is the new team to hate, cos of the way they win, the way they behave, and the way they conduct themselves off the pitch. I mean I didnt even list fully the shameful things they've been caught doing.

Tapping up Ashley Cole for one. They are just so brazen and arrogant that most people who care about good honest football dislike them or at least what they stand for.

Even anti-Utd people suddenly recall us as the good team who played good football and have started hating chelsea. What can I say, your point of vew is to me alien. Its so neutral its scary.

as for excusing Man Utd, of course I would. I have said in the past in this thread that if a guy wants to attack another guy as long as he's honest about it, fine. Cantona was.

and the Liverpool-Man Utd thing is a special relationship - maybe you dont understand just how big this rivalry is? when they beat us they go mad. actually there was one game where they equalised late on at anfield and they thought it put a dent in our title bid and they celebrated as if they'd won the league themselves. It was horrible to take, but thats how it is, we hate each other, very much.

 

[Mama Smurf]

I've said it twice already, I think the Gary Neville incident is fine. But I don't think there's a special rule where if teams really hate each other they can do stuff that other teams can't. If United can do that, Chelsea can do their thing, even with Spurs.

I know most people hate Chelsea, I'm fine with that, doesn't affect me. Just saying why I don't.

 

[kaizoku]

Cantona's thing was so much worse than this new incident. And it's all those things you just said, cowardly, petty and pathetic.

He was verbally attacked. That's all. Every footballer is verbally attacked, especially if they've been sent off. It happens every week. You ignore it, there's no danger, there never is from verbal abuse. I think you should be able to swear back, though you're not, but he didn't even do that. He just attacked the guy. It's petty because it was just the same verbal abuse he got every game of his life and is nothing, it's pathetic because it's so out of proportion with what was done to him and it's cowardly because he's a superfit footballer with studs in his boots kicking a fat fan in his unprotected chest without even any physical attempt on himself.

you defend chelsea but you feel cantona was worse? wtf?? how do you know what the guy said to eric? he gets a lot of abuse but clearly this guy went over the top with something and eric flipped. its one guy attacking another head on - fair game, eric lost his head, he was already upset with the red card. If bowyer and dyer want to have a fight so be it. its stupid and mindless but thats how fights are, you lose your cool.

chelsea were celebrating a win, took time out to stamp on someones ankles and punch him while he was on the ground and then resumed celebrating.

anyway whatever man, if you're gonna defend chelsea I have nothing more to say on the topic. Its like one big kid holding down a kid and then having his friends take turns to hit him. Its just distasteful. No idea how you can defend that.

 

[kaizoku]

I've said it twice already, I think the Gary Neville incident is fine. But I don't think there's a special rule where if teams really hate each other they can do stuff that other teams can't. If United can do that, Chelsea can do their thing, even with Spurs.

I know most people hate Chelsea, I'm fine with that, doesn't affect me. Just saying why I don't.

you dont get it, Utd celebrated because it was genuine euphoria whereas Mourinho was orchestrated to wind up the spurs fans. It was a mind game thing, not genuine explosion of emotions.

Which is why its so embarassing, they had no reason to celebrate like that and you know it.

 

[hadareud]

far from defending Chelsea, because I hate them and I also find the behaviour of teaming up on someone lying on the floor cowardly.

But this does not even approach what Cantona did. Does it even ****ing matter what was said to him? They get abuse every game, and if you can't be bigger than that you don't have any business playing in front of 60000 people. no matter what was said.

same with Zidane - who cares what was said.

 

[kaizoku]

far from defending Chelsea, cause I hate them and I also find the behaviour of teaming up on someone lying on the floor cowardly.

But this does not even approach what Cantona did. Does it even ****ing matter what was said to him? The get abuse every game, and if you can't be bigger than that you don't have any business playing in front of 60000 people. no matter what was said.

same with Zidane - who cares what was said.

I'm not saying he was right, but I'm saying fights happen when people get emotional and its ok imo. Emotions are normal and at least in my world you sometimes take a hit if you offend someone.

If two guys have a fight fine, you break it up.

but if some guys gang up on a helpless victim, you start to worry about thier mental condition.

most fans I have spoken to (not Utd fans) were hoping the guy actually hit lampard!

 

[Mama Smurf]

you defend chelsea but you feel cantona was worse? wtf?? how do you know what the guy said to eric? he gets a lot of abuse but clearly this guy went over the top with something and eric flipped. its one guy attacking another head on - fair game, eric lost his head, he was already upset with the red card. If bowyer and dyer want to have a fight so be it. its stupid and mindless but thats how fights are, you lose your cool.

chelsea were celebrating a win, took time out to stamp on someones ankles and punch him while he was on the ground and then resumed celebrating.

anyway whatever man, if you're gonna defend chelsea I have nothing more to say on the topic. Its like one big kid holding down a kid and then having his friends take turns to hit him. Its just distasteful. No idea how you can defend that.

I don't know what was said to him, I never said I did. It doesn't matter what was said to him, he could have said the most insulting thing in the world and it wouldn't justify that reaction.

you dont get it, Utd celebrated because it was genuine euphoria whereas Mourinho was orchestrated to wind up the spurs fans. It was a mind game thing, not genuine explosion of emotions.

Which is why its so embarassing, they had no reason to celebrate like that and you know it.

You're acting like it's fact that it was orchestrated. But to what end! There is no benefit to winding the Spurs fans up, especially not after a game. There are only risks...the crowd might attack. It might be too obvious and you might be attacked by the FA. I cannot think of a single benefit.

As for a mind game...against who? Martin Jol? Spurs? They're not rivals, there's no mind game. Celebrating at WHL certainly isn't going to bother any other managers who might actually be targets of mind games.

 

[kaizoku]

I don't know what was said to him, I never said I did. It doesn't matter what was said to him, he could have said the most insulting thing in the world and it wouldn't justify that reaction.



You're acting like it's fact that it was orchestrated. But to what end! There is no benefit to winding the Spurs fans up, especially not after a game. There are only risks...the crowd might attack. It might be too obvious and you might be attacked by the FA. I cannot think of a single benefit.

As for a mind game...against who? Martin Jol? Spurs? They're not rivals, there's no mind game. Celebrating at WHL certainly isn't going to bother any other managers who might actually be targets of mind games.

eugh man, Mourinho is known for winding up the fans and opposition on purpose. Its his trademark and its not to gain any kind of advantage. Its for fun, like poking a dying rat with a stick, why do it? Cos its fascinating them, it makes them feel powerful and special and they love making others suffer.

Be interesting to see him do the same vs Blackburn if he deems you worthy of it. Thats why he is regarded as a bad winner, wins with all the grace of a hippo having a fight with a cow.

anyway enough said, I'm not gonna convince you am I. you'll just have to pick up on these things in your own time.

 

[Mama Smurf]

eugh man, Mourinho is known for winding up the fans and opposition on purpose. Its his trademark and its not to gain any kind of advantage. Its for fun, like poking a dying rat with a stick, why do it? Cos its fascinating them, it makes them feel powerful and special and they love making others suffer.

...good lord. Is this your "humour" again? I hope so.

Be interesting to see him do the same vs Blackburn if he deems you worthy of it. Thats why he is regarded as a bad winner, wins with all the grace of a hippo having a fight with a cow.

You know, we once kicked his team to death, injuring Robben for months in the process, and you know what he said? He said it was good because today people saw that Chelsea can fight if they need to fight. He also said that, given what he'd seen of Blackburn in the game, he was sure we'd climb out of the bad position we were in then and make the UEFA Cup.

WHAT A BAD WINNER

anyway enough said, I'm not gonna convince you am I. you'll just have to pick up on these things in your own time.

Arrogant.

 

[Shinobi]

Ignored what point? I said that what Cantona did was understandable, silly but he's a man and he paid the price. Its a man attacking another man for whatever offence.

Its not athletes ganging up on a drunk yob while he's on the floor under a mass of bodies with limbs sticking out, and players diving in to try and punch and kick him through the stewards. Thats not how you behave ffs. Police dont do it, stewards dont do it, normal people dont do it.

If some psycho tried to hit YOU but was quickly smothered by poice who had been tailing him would you then rush over and try to kick his head in despite the situation being under control??

whatever man, if you cant understand the concept of cowardly attacks then thats your problem. This is just basic common sense. Its not outrageous, offensive or brave, its just petty and pathetic - just like chelsea.

and if you can attach those words to cantona's attack you must be joking. It was stupid, violent, crazy, but it wasn't pathetic, cowardly or petty.

I guess its the difference with me finding it shameful when a player goes down gripping his face for no reason or waving imaginary yellow cards - whilst you guys find it ok.

Doing a flying kick on an unsuspecting man who's in his seat is a cowardly act. No if's, and's or but's about it. To suggest it was a honest act is ****ing laughable. The Chelsea players were far more honest...at least you knew what their intent was, and the reasons for it.

I'm not saying what the Chelsea players did was brave mind you. It wasn't. But what it did do was send a message to any other yob who even thinks of doing the same thing. If you choose to step into our zone and try something, you're going to pay the price. If I was one of those players, I would've done the same damn thing...**** the consequences. What I wouldn't do is a flying kick into a seated fan's face.

What Cantona did was unneccessary, unprovoked and unjustifiable. What the Chelsea players did might've been cowardly to a point, but they didn't instigate it, and it was far more justifiable. Period.

And I don't know why you care if Mama hates Chelsea or not. Some people hate teams, others don't. I doubt Mama hated Man U during the 90's when it was the hip thing to do (or Liverpool in the 80's for that matter), so you should feel fortunate that if Man U ever experiences a similiar period of domination that at least Mama won't hate your team because of it. :lol He just loves Blackburn and that's good enough for him...can't say I see a problem with that.

...good lord. Is this your "humour" again? I hope so.



You know, we once kicked his team to death, injuring Robben for months in the process, and you know what he said? He said it was good because today people saw that Chelsea can fight if they need to fight. He also said that, given what he'd seen of Blackburn in the game, he was sure we'd climb out of the bad position we were in then and make the UEFA Cup.

WHAT A BAD WINNER



Arrogant.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[kaizoku]

you guys are totally exaggerating the kick incident with cantona. The guy was standing there, ready for it, even beckoning him. Anyways as I said before its perfectly understandable for someone to lose control and flip and get into a fight.

Its less understandable to gang up on an incapacitated opponent like vultures to fresh meat. Two violent acts driven by two very different sets of emotions. I would say one set is more acceptable than the other.

If I had a son, and he did a flying kick on someone to say defend his mother's name or whatever - I wouldnt be too upset, I'd tell him not to do it again and punish him in some way. If my son was spotted jumping on someones fingers or ankles as they lay on the ground before turning round as if nothing had happened I'd be sick to my stomach.

 

[kaizoku]

...good lord. Is this your "humour" again? I hope so.

You know, we once kicked his team to death, injuring Robben for months in the process, and you know what he said? He said it was good because today people saw that Chelsea can fight if they need to fight. He also said that, given what he'd seen of Blackburn in the game, he was sure we'd climb out of the bad position we were in then and make the UEFA Cup.

WHAT A BAD WINNER

Arrogant.

Look I'm not the one who is out of touch with the overwhelming consensus here, dont make out like my opinions are extreme, I'm being rather rational today.

Just like Wenger has a bad rep for being a bad loser, Mourinho has a bad rep for being a bad winner (not everytime obviously!) and for criticising all sorts (usually refs) when they lose. He has a reputation for deliberately inciting the crowd, simple as that. You can give an example if you want, but all I have to do is point to their last game where he went on some kind of parade to show how great chelsea were to the spurs fans.

 

[Shinobi]

:lol Okay, this is yet another thing we're not gonna agree on...

BTW, about the "sick to your stomach" part? I hope you don't watch any rugby, since that sort of shit is part of the game.

 

[kaizoku]

:lol Okay, this is yet another thing we're not gonna agree on...

BTW, about the "sick to your stomach" part? I hope you don't watch any rugby, since that sort of shit is part of the game.

sure, I hate rugby, think its disgraceful when people behave like that.

I happen to have principles and morals, maybe more than average person I dunno.

I come across guys who think its ok to try and injure someone to win a match. I think its disgusting, extremely. It irks me so much I have almost gotten into fights even just from watching one team do it to another team, I cant stand it.

If I call a guy an asshole, its ok if he turns round and pushes me and tries to punch me, its cowardly and pathetic if he tries to break my ankle from behind later on in the game. Or if I'm walking home and he ambushes me with 3 friends. That kind of thing.

Thought it was silly when Morrison did that to Ronaldo for example. Hard and honest tackles fine, but deliberately trying to break his legs? Piss off. I'm furious that southgate actually smiled about it and accepted it

 

[Mama Smurf]

anyway enough said, I'm not gonna convince you am I.

Please just think of me as a lost cause.

And you can't have more principles and morals than someone else. You can't count these things, it's not like you have 20 principles and someone else has 4. Everyone has principles and morals about every situation they come across, even if they don't identify them as such. People just have different principles and morals, no one has more or less.

I don't think it's ok for someone to punch you if you call them an asshole, you do. It's no surprise, the world's full of different people, but they all believe in their own pronciples and morals as much as each other. This all goes back to the opinions thing, which I might as well not have written for all the effect it's had. I mean to tell someone they'll have to pick up on things that you've already noticed in their own time, and not to realize that it's just as likely to be the opposite way round and probably more likely than either of those things that everything that can be picked up on already has been, by both people, and they just have different views on it.

I'd say it blows my mind, but it doesn't, most people think that way. Sadly.

 

[Shinobi]

sure, I hate rugby, think its disgraceful when people behave like that.

I happen to have principles and morals, maybe more than average person I dunno.

I come across guys who think its ok to try and injure someone to win a match. I think its disgusting, extremely. It irks me so much I have almost gotten into fights even just from watching one team do it to another team, I cant stand it.

If I call a guy an asshole, its ok if he turns round and pushes me and tries to punch me, its cowardly and pathetic if he tries to break my ankle from behind later on in the game. Or if I'm walking home and he ambushes me with 3 friends. That kind of thing.

Thought it was silly when Morrison did that to Ronaldo for example. Hard and honest tackles fine, but deliberately trying to break his legs? Piss off. I'm furious that southgate actually smiled about it and accepted it

Eh...I'm sure Fergie gave a little smile when the Neville boys were successfully booting Reyes up and down the turf. :lol Of course you somehow didn't see this, even though other Man U fans did (not that they cared, nor should they...isn't like I cared about the abuse we gave to Ruud Horseface).

As far as deliberate attempt to injure is concerned, I'd consider a flying kick to someone's chest with studded boots exactly that. And he wasn't even trying to win a match. :lol

The thing you seem to forget is that someone who is drunk (which that Spud yob clearly was) is a lot more difficult to subdue than a sober person. So you have to go overboard with the beatdown, just to ensure he's not gonna be a threat anymore.

I heard one story from a cop where it took 'em seven or eight stabs with a tazer gun to finally get some dangerous drunk to stay on the ground. Whereas if you're of sound mind and body, if you feel one of these things once, you basically curl up into the fetal position and suck on your thumb.

These players have probably been around drunken idiots before...they know how much tougher it is to make 'em quit. So getting a few extra digs in was something they likely saw as neccessary.

I also think the Inter players were in the right for wanting to gang up on Valencia's Speedy Gonzales who did his hit and run routine a few weeks ago. If they'd caught him and all kicked the crap out of him, I wouldn't have cared. If you decide to walk into something where you could be outnumbered and still try to start shit, you deserve whatever you get.

 

[kaizoku]

Please just think of me as a lost cause.

And you can't have more principles and morals than someone else. You can't count these things, it's not like you have 20 principles and someone else has 4. Everyone has principles and morals about every situation they come across, even if they don't identify them as such. People just have different principles and morals, no one has more or less.

I don't think it's ok for someone to punch you if you call them an asshole, you do. It's no surprise, the world's full of different people, but they all believe in their own pronciples and morals as much as each other. This all goes back to the opinions thing, which I might as well not have written for all the effect it's had. I mean to tell someone they'll have to pick up on things that you've already noticed in their own time, and not to realize that it's just as likely to be the opposite way round and probably more likely than either of those things that everything that can be picked up on already has been, by both people, and they just have different views on it.

I'd say it blows my mind, but it doesn't, most people think that way. Sadly.

I was gonna say "or not pick up on" but thats extra typing I didnt wanna do. Of course I am aware. I get your whole opinion speech, but part of the fun of football is the debates - you at least seem like you enjoy it.

No fun if you're all agreeing with each other! boring!!

anyway thank you for taking the time to debate with me, helps me pass some free time and you're quite a worthy opponent. Though I find your neutralness rather freaky!

 

[kaizoku]

Eh...I'm sure Fergie gave a little smile when the Neville boys were successfully booting Reyes up and down the turf. :lol Of course you somehow didn't see this, even though other Man U fans did (not that they cared, nor should they...isn't like I cared about the abuse we gave to Ruud Horseface).

As as far as deliberate attempt to injure is concerned, I'd consider a flying kick to someone's chest with studded boots exactly that. And he wasn't even trying to win a match. :lol

The thing you seem to forget is that someone who is drunk (which that Spud yob clearly was) is a lot more difficult to subdue than a sober person. So you have to go overboard with the beatdown, just to ensure he's not gonna be a threat anymore.

I heard one story from a cop where it took 'em seven or eight stabs with a tazer gun to finally get some dangerous drunk to stay on the ground. Whereas if you're of sound mind and body, if you feel one of these things once, you basically curl up into the fetal position.

These players have probably been around drunken idiots before...they know how much tougher it is to make 'em quit. So getting a few extra digs in was something they likely saw as neccessary.

I also think the Inter players were in the right for wanting to gang up on Valencia's Speedy Gonzales who did his hit and run routine a few weeks ago. If they'd caught him and all kicked the crap out of him, I wouldn't have cared. If you decide to walk into something where you could be outnumbered and still try to start shit, you deserve whatever you get.

:lol :lol

I said hard tackles are fine. Trying to break someones leg is not, big difference, we gave him a hard time which has exaggerated into legend apparently - but we didnt try to ruin his career.

Keane's actions however I do find appalling, although I can see his reasoning. Haaland did something bad to him and he got his payback.

If Inter had caught that guy - fair play, he was fair game and cowardly.

If this guy had connected with lampard or something then take him down, but once he's down thats it, you let the authorities deal with it. But he was already down and thats when they decided "hey lets hurt him".

as for cantona, I dont really care, he was defending something important to him and its ok to do that imo. I have no problem with cantona's kick other than it got him a suspension so it was silly.

anyway enough of this, both said all we can say. I live my life by some weird code of honour, you guys just dont give a shit - its cool

 

[jamesinclair]

I turn to Telefutura just now to watch Libertadores highlights and see the show has been prempted by Chivas - Morelia

I watch for 5 minutes, and there are 3 goals...

 

[Mama Smurf]

Of course I like debates and hearing other people's opinions, that's why I come to a message board. I could just go to news sites if I only wanted the facts.

There's a difference, however, between putting your opinions forward, and putting your opinions forward as right. And even if you'd added "or not pick up on", it still suggests that there are things I haven't seen, things I could not pick up on, and if I did pick up on them then I'd see it your way.

And that might be true. To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, there are known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns. Easy quote to laugh at because it sounds so ridiculous and garbled, but it's true. If you can't see something, you cannot see it. It's an unknown unknown.

Problem is, things you can't see apply to every single person alive. Inevitably we'll be right on some things, inevitably we'll be wrong on others. All we can do is put forward our opinions and listen to others too, and hope the unknown unknowns turn into known unknowns, and then maybe into known knowns.

Shame I'm British, I could really fit into US politics.

EDIT: BTW, Drogba at least went after the guy before he was caught, he was after him as soon as the stewards. He just didn't get a chance to do anything until he was down on the ground as it happened so fast, but when it started he was facing a standing man, not a prone one.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

-snip- I don't think it's ok for someone to punch you if you call them an asshole -snip-

I agree with what you're saying to a degree; the severity of the comment itself is the crux. If, like Zidane, someone on pitch was constantly berating my sister or other like family member, I'd probably snap and swing the first punch (or... head-butt) at some point. But if they were just swearing and having a go at me, I'd probably take it way less seriously; when dealing wth racial, family or other such serious parts of my life, however, confronting that sort of abuse would be absurdly hard -- in fact, I applaud the kind of person who can stand up to that sort of thing and maintain their emotions as neutral.

as for cantona, I dont really care, he was defending something important to him and its ok to do that imo. I have no problem with cantona's kick other than it got him a suspension so it was silly.

I'm not sure on Cantona. Did we ever find out what that fan said to him? Can he be really ethically/morally judged without knowing this motivation? And while we know that what he did was ultimately wrong; we all commit wrongs to vindicate our own perceived rights, and in truth, would we have acted in the same way if faced with the same situation? If that could be answered, I think it would be possible to come to a real conclusion on his case.

 

[psycho_snake]

you defend chelsea but you feel cantona was worse? wtf?? how do you know what the guy said to eric? he gets a lot of abuse but clearly this guy went over the top with something and eric flipped. its one guy attacking another head on - fair game, eric lost his head, he was already upset with the red card. If bowyer and dyer want to have a fight so be it. its stupid and mindless but thats how fights are, you lose your cool.

****ing hell. Who cares what he said. Football players get loads verbal abuse. No matter what is said they've got to control themselves. Players like cantona are heroes to millions of kids. He's got to set an example. What message does it send when he kicks someone in the crowd? Its just stupid and wrong to do it. What the chelse aplayers did to the fan wadnt brilliant behaviour, but what cantona did was a lot worse.

 

[psycho_snake]

Rosicky and Hleb? I don't think I can agree with that. Whilst Hleb hasn't been on top form in recent games, before his string of injuries he was on top form and playing very well.. The same really goes for Rosicky as well... They both need to score more goals though. :-/

Rosicky has got the potential to become really good. hleb is crap.

 

[MrPing1000]

The guy Cantona kicked had previous associations with trouble. If I recall he got banned from all stadiums shortly after and he may have gone to jail for a while.


*edit hooray for wikipedia*

he launched a 'kung-fu' style kick against a racist Crystal Palace fan, Matthew Simmons, who later was found to have an affiliation with the BNP. (At Simmons' subsequent trial for threatening language and behaviour, he attacked the prosecution counsel after being found guilty, leaping over a bench and executing a flying kick of his own. He was sentenced to seven days in jail, but only served 24 hours of his sentence.)

 

[hadareud]

Rosicky has got the potential to become really good. hleb is crap.

The Belarussian beast will prove you wrong.

The guy Cantona kicked had previous associations with trouble. If I recall he got banned from all stadiums shortly after and he may have gone to jail for a while.

I'm sure the guy was a prick, and the wikipedia thing proves it. That still doesn't justify a reaction like that. It really doesn't matter what was said to be honest.

I always talk about how emotions are part of the game and should not be taken away, but there's a clear line between a bit of pushing and shoving and swearing, and what Cantona did.

 

[MrPing1000]

Of course it cannot be justified, but the FA went a bit mad with the ban tbh. But they like to do that when it comes to Man Utd. It's a bit like Uefa and England.