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Official Football Thread 2006/2007 (Soccer)

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Hot!

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Not (looks like an old man)

And women like scruffy hair...they can pretend the man is rugged and so masculine he doesn't care what his hair looks like, just runs his hand through it in the morning (though secretly know if anything it takes even longer to get that scruffy but cool look just right).

If any footballer needs to shave his head though, it'd be Sorin. I actually dislike him purely because of his godawful hair.
 
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"I'm ready for war."

Interesting move by the Gunners...they're loaning out their young English cornerback Kerrea Gilbert to Cardiff City for the entire season. Considering he played pretty well for the first team in a handful of games before he got injured,considering that Ashley Cole is probably going to leave, and considering the Gunners are already kind of light as far as defensive cover is concerned with Campbell already gone, it kinda suggest that Arsenal will make a move for at least one experienced defender before too long. But who that player (or players) could be is beyond me.
 
Cornerback? That's....that's from the other football! I'm revoking your football thread license, to get it back send me £80 for a signed Ronaldinho shirt.
 
:lol Sorry, I always get that confused for some blasted reason...though when you think about it, the term makes a lot more sense in the footie world!
 
Man U and Arsenal are dumb for not getting their share of the Juve cadaver quickly, now Cannavaro and Zambrotta are both playing in Spain, all Juve have left are past-it stars. How are they ever gonna catch up with Chelsea with this kind of speedy transfer policy?:lol
 
Seems Vieira might be moving to Inter and Camoranesi has attracted interest from Lyon.

Juve are quickly running out of interesting players. I still expect Trezeguet to come to the Premiership, probably to Liverpool or maybe Newcastle if he's willing to miss out on CL football, but I'm not sure anyone's going to want Ibrahimovic (well, no one he'd be willing to go to anyway). We're told Nedved, Del Piero and Buffon want to stay (how true these are I don't know, it also depends on whether Juve can afford to let them stay).

Tudor is interesting, though it's easy to forget he's a Juve player as he's been out on loan so long. I don't really know anything about Balzaretti, but he was their first choice right back last season so I assume he's good and he's only 24, that could bring some interest from a team like Spurs. Zebina maybe...I kind of assume Juve want to keep their players who are on lower wages and won't bring much money when transferred though and just sell the big ones, to give them the best chance of bouncing back asap.
 
Duff is signing for Newcastle. Odd signing, especially for 10m or whatever it was, when newcastle don't have any decent strikers.

Strange that he turned down spurs too. Or maybe not when you consider the wages newcastle will be paying him.

We were mentioned as being after him but I think that was just chelsea trying to scare the geordies into paying up. We've already got about a dozen left sided players in the squad!
 
I think it's a good signing, but I've already outlined that above. He can play as a second striker too, often played their for Ireland, so useful.

I don't think he did turn down Spurs, they didn't offer enough for Chelsea to even let them speak to him.
 
Its a great snag for newcastle, to pinch him from under Totenhams nose too, but its not what they need.
 
Jared Borgetti's gone from Bolton. Heading to Spain's Racing De Santander. Shame he never really got a shot in the Prem. I think he's going to do real well @ Racing.
 
Outdoor Miner said:
Jared Borgetti's gone from Bolton. Heading to Spain's Racing De Santander. Shame he never really got a shot in the Prem. I think he's going to do real well @ Racing.
It really is a shame. Whenever he played Borgetti showed signs of a great player that just didn't get enough time on the field. It didn't make any sense that Allardyce left Borgetti on the bench when Davies couldn't score for shit. Now Allardyce is looking for a 20-goal a year striker, but he had a solid forward on the bench. Was he a 20-goal a year scorer? Not really. But he shouldn't have been playing in the reserves.
 
Seems like West Ham will benefit from Newcastle getting Duff, they've agreed a price for Milner according to the Express today.

Good news, we need a wide right player. Though i was beginning to hope Pardew wasnt buying any more wingers because he wanted to bring through Mark Noble (right) and Kyle Reid (Left) from the youth set up (Noble played center last season but the word is he's worked out that he's better off on the flank).
 
Osorio said:
It didn't make any sense that Allardyce left Borgetti on the bench when Davies couldn't score for shit.

Pfff, shows what you know. So what that he only scored 8 goals last season? So what that he only scored 1 goal every 6 games? The stat-tracking, therefore ultra-reliable, actimindex says he's the 29th best player in the Premiership!

http://download.howden.press.net/actim/PremUK_index_top100.pdf

Look, he's ahead of Bellamy and Defoe and Yakubu and Roberts and Crespo and Camara and...
 
Why did the Bergkamp game end after 80 minutes?

Anyway, the first half was rubbish but I enjoyed the second. I was worried Wright wasn't even going to get a touch, but he almost scored so people will be happy. ****ing hilarious when Grimandi fouled Davids just so a Spurs player wouldn't score, he didn't even care about the penalty, just not Davids! Instant hero with the...Emirates crowd. Though it would have been hilarious either way for me.

No Adams surprised me, as did some of the players who turned up. Edu? Luzhny? Weird. I can only guess they're some of Bergkamp's closer friends, they didn't seem to fit in with the rest.
 
Tough match for Blackburn today, we're taking on Hamburg in Germany, they finished 3rd last year. And then it's on to Olympiakos.

We're being linked with the Ecuador winger Valencia from Villarreal, which would be good as it's a position we need to strengthen, but sadly the rumour seems to have come from The People, the shittiest shit of all shit tabloids. They're also reporting today that West Ham are offering Man City £9m for Micah Richards...hahahaha

I'm itching for proper games to start, but it's not long now. The first leg of the Champions League qualifiers take place on the 8th/9th August for Liverpool and Arsenal, so that's like 2 and a bit weeks off. For now I'll watch a Celtic - Everton friendly....doesn't thrill me, but maybe I'll see if Andy Johnson looks any good.
 
*feels like he might be carrying the conversation slightly*

Apparently Duff only cost Newcastle £5m, they announced it to the stock market. That's bloody cheap. And also makes me wonder just how many other supposed transfer fees are wildly wrong, as so many are undisclosed nowadays.

Seems Blackburn are about to sign Benni McCarthy. I really would have preferred Mido, but he clearly doesn't want to come, despite not being in Roma's plans. I even thought we might wait to see if Roma successfully bid for Trezeguet (it's rumoured they want him), which would make it even more clear to Mido that he needs to look elsewhere and we might finally have gotten him. We'll have to wait and see how good he is, Hughes does seem to be able to get the best out of players.
 
The 5 million for Duff thing is very strange, I cant believe Spurs wouldnt have paid that for him, are Chelsea offering discounts to teams outside the top 5?
 
£5 million for Duff is a bargain. Chelsea paid just over 3 tyimes as much to get him and now they're selling him for very cheap. Its wierd to think that he costed only that much and Tottenham want £20 million for Carrick.
 
I will chat with you Mama Smurf. I don't get much time anymore.

I expect Cole to leave for Chelsea this week or next and Davies to come in.

btw I hope Franny Jeffers is paying you to play for Blackburn.
 
As I understand it, Jeffers has a contract based almost entirely on incentives. Alright, he obviously has a weekly wage, he does need to live, but its much lower than he would expect at his age and signing for a European Premiership team. As he came on a free, and isn't expected to be one of our two main strikers, we basically have nothing to lose and potentially a lot to gain. If he starts scoring, he starts getting money, we're happy to have him; if he doesn't, we don't give him any money, he can leave for the lower divisions.

He did at least manage to score in a friendly, which was against Accrington Stanley, sure, but I wasn't convinced he could score against anyone anymore before that.
 
Mama Smurf said:
He did at least manage to score in a friendly, which was against Accrington Stanley, sure, but I wasn't convinced he could score against anyone anymore before that.

Wow, really? Did he mean to? He kicked it with a foot?
 
Hah, I haven't seen it, but I'm more annoyed about missing Pedersen's goal against Hamburg (1-1 draw btw), a 25 yard full volley with his right foot I'm told. He just doesn't score boring goals (even when he bundled one in against Newcastle he made sure to punch it into the net, to give us some entertainment).

He's actually right footed, which is why he can do that, but he wanted his left as strong as his right and worked on it so much when younger that it actually became the better.

You know, I'm reading up on football stats right now...some are damn interesting (and surprising). I really, really hate the actimindex, but these other guys seem to be able to back up their stats with figures and explain how they got them, and many are hard to argue with. I'll post some of the more surprising ones soon.
 
Money versus performance, Franny has been the worst buy of the Wenger era, easily. 8mil and he was a collosal flop. Some people point to Cygan (who by the way got turned and abused by Van Basten at DB10's testimonial) but he only cost around 2m from Lille. He was a donkey but not an expensive one. Reyes' performances haven't matched his pricetag but he can't really be called a flop. Well, he can but just not in this context.
 
I'll just throw one out there for now (I don't think we're ready for the dropping Rooney from the England team debate just yet :lol).

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This is from the end of 2005, and it needs to be pointed out that it is NOT saying who is the best goalkeeper. It's surely looking at the most key part of goalkeeping (just as scoring goals is the key part of being a striker), but it is ONLY looking at the amount of shots on target it takes before a goalkeeper concedes. It doesn't look at how many times they fluff catches from crosses and present the other team with opportunities, it doesn't look at if their goal kicks tend to go to their players or straight out of play, it doesn't look at the defence they're playing behind...it doesn't look at lots of things.

Still...it's an extremely important stat. Useful too, as to a large degree it takes the defence out of the question (not fully, perhaps for example goalkeepers behind a good defence face more long shots as the attacking team knows how hard it is to get into the box). So looking at this it's much harder for people to make the claim that Cech only concedes so few goals because of his defence and he's actually not all that good...his shot stopping is superb.

But check out Filan! He is way out in front. Goalkeepers like Martyn and Friedel, generally considered amongst the better keepers in the country, can't even compete. Carrol's rating higher than Van der Sar.
 
Wow. I forgot Roy Carroll existed. I forgot he went to West Ham, I figured he'd moved into the Home for Forgotten United Keepers, in a room between Mark Bosnich and Massimo Taibi.
 
Meh, those things mean nothing.


Some goalkeepers organise their defense better, so fewer players can come through and have a go at the goal. It could be that that Wigan fellow gets 25 shots per match on target, while with Arsenal, it's only 6...
 
Hooker said:
Meh, those things mean nothing.


Some goalkeepers organise their defense better, so fewer players can come through and have a go at the goal. It could be that that Wigan fellow gets 25 shots per match on target, while with Arsenal, it's only 6...

I'm pretty sure with Arsenal it's the 25...

EDIT: btw Hooker can you give one of your summaries on Dirk Kuyt: is he the real deal or not?
 
Yeah, I pulled those number out of my ass to illustrate what I was getting at.


And I don't know about Dirk Kuyt. This guys works his ass off, just incredible. And he seems to adjust himself to every level of competition he's played in. He isn't like Ronaldinho or Messi who can dribble himself through defenses, he isn't like van Nistelrooy of Crepso who score almost everything that comes their way.

He's a hardworking son-of-a-bitch, that never gives up and keeps on fighting. Has skills, a good shot and plays with heart.
 
Hooker said:
Meh, those things mean nothing.


Some goalkeepers organise their defense better, so fewer players can come through and have a go at the goal. It could be that that Wigan fellow gets 25 shots per match on target, while with Arsenal, it's only 6...

Well that's not how it works, it doesn't even look at it per game, just adds up all the shots on target the keeper has faced all season and divides it by the number of goals he's conceded. So it makes no difference how many shots you face per game.

People don't like stats, they take the romance away from the game. Especially when they dispell commonly held beliefs. I do like stats, but only when they can be backed up and aren't half arsed.

At the start of last season, these guys predicted that West Ham and Wigan weren't likely to go down at all. More than that, they predicted that the 4 teams in a relegation battle, the ONLY 4 teams with a higher than 12% chance of relegation, were Portsmouth, West Brom, Birmingham and Sunderland. Absolutely spot on, and you won't find many who wouldn't have put at least one of West Ham or Wigan in the bottom 4, and I think most would have said Birmingham would be fine.

Furthermore, for the last 3 seasons (or maybe it's 4, I'd have to check), they've bet against the bookies on Premiership matches whenever their stats give them 20% better odds than the bookies were...and they've come out with a profit every season.

It's clear that their stats work (or most of them do, I'm sure there are flaws), you just have to decide if you want to accept them or not.
 
You guys will like this stat. Actually it's not a stat specifically, I don't have numbers, but you'll like it anyway. You know how everyone says United get favoured by referees, particularly at Old Trafford? Well...it's true (sort of)!

They looked at the main debatable issue: penalties. First of all it was penalties awarded...nothing in favour of United there. Arsenal, Newcastle, Crystal Palace...all have had more awarded for them. But when it came to penalties conceded...they were clearly top, with the least awarded against them.

Now you might say that's fair enough, attacking, good teams are more likely to be in the opponents box and get penalties and less likely to be defending in their own to concede them. And this is absolutely true. So they took this into account, compensating for the strengths of teams (based on goals scored and conceded). Now if referees are fair, this should even out across all teams. And this was indeed the case, for every team...except one. United are signinficantly favoured when it comes to conceding penalties, the only team around favoured in this way, and it's most apparent at home (though not only at home).

Now, you may wonder why I said "it's true (sort of)" up there. Well, while United are favoured in that way, smaller decisions (cards, free kicks), actually go against them. Well, not against them, all away sides get treated worse than home sides on these smaller decisions, but away sides at Old Trafford don't have it so bad as away sides elsewhere.

You know what that says to me? It says referees are running around supporting Man Utd, only while at Old Trafford they don't want people to realise that, so they actually overcompensate in giving the other team decisions. However, when it comes to big decisions like penalties, well, they don't want to do that to their team, so let some things go.

Bastards.
 
Athletico madrid are going to have a press conference about Fernando Torres. They'll probably goign to announce that he is going to leave, but where to? The destinations that come to mind are Man Utd, Inter and Real madrid. Inter have been looking for another striker and they've been linekd with torres so they are a possability. United are going to sell ruud and although he did return for pre season training, it still looks like he will go, however it looks like he'll be going to munich instead of madrid, which leaves the door apen at real for another striker. Fergie has said that he's looking to strengthen the midfield and although torres would be a boost, he isnt a must buy player, we need to make sure that we get a midfielder ahead of anyone.

Speaking of Van Nistelrooy going to Bayern, does anyone else think that Fergie is planning to swap Ruud for Hargreaves? Im shocked as to why United have not made any move for hargreaves yet. He proved everyone wrong at the world cup and showed that he's an excellent player when he's being played in a holding midfield role. He is the exact type of player United are missing. Forget about a creative midfielder, we've got rooney to make the creative passes. Another player with the abilty to make creative passes would be good, btu for now we desperately need a defensive midfielder and hargreaves fits the bill perfectly.
 
Mama Smurf said:

mama stop being dumb, that chart says dick. Keepers with a good defence are going to be further down the list because the amount of shots on target will be lower so thus when they do score the shots on target to goal ratio will be higher.
 
MrPing1000 said:
mama stop being dumb, that chart says dick. Keepers with a good defence are going to be further down the list because the amount of shots on target will be lower so thus when they do score the shots on target to goal ratio will be higher.

Noooooo, dammit, none of you are reading this chart right! You should know what you've said doesn't make any sense for a start even if you're reading it wrong, how does Cech or Reina have a bad defence? How does Sunderland have a good one?

It is NOT a shots on target chart! Its an "it takes this many shots for a keeper to concede" chart! It makes NO difference how many shots you have against you in each game, zero, zilch, nada.

Think of it like this. Filan might concede 50 goals in a season. Jaaskelainen might only concede 40 goals. Just looking at that, you'd be forgiven for thinking that makes the latter the better shot stopper. However, while conceding those 50 goals, Filan has saved 400 (1 goal conceded for every 9.00 shots). Jaaskelainen on the otherhand has only saved 200 when conceding 40 goals (1 goal conceded for every 5.00 shots).

Please tell me some of you are getting it now (apologies to anyone who already got it and just didn't say anything).
 
Mama Smurf said:
Please tell me some of you are getting it now (apologies to anyone who already got it and just didn't say anything).
I got it from the beginning. Its very wierd seeing Filan at the top of that list though. The rest of it isnt so much of a surprise.
 
Mama Smurf said:
Noooooo, dammit, none of you are reading this chart right! You should know what you've said doesn't make any sense for a start even if you're reading it wrong, how does Cech or Reina have a bad defence? How does Sunderland have a good one?

It is NOT a shots on target chart! Its an "it takes this many shots for a keeper to concede" chart! It makes NO difference how many shots you have against you in each game, zero, zilch, nada.

Think of it like this. Filan might concede 50 goals in a season. Jaaskelainen might only concede 40 goals. Just looking at that, you'd be forgiven for thinking that makes the latter the better shot stopper. However, while conceding those 50 goals, Filan has saved 400 (1 goal conceded for every 9.00 shots). Jaaskelainen on the otherhand has only saved 200 when conceding 40 goals (1 goal conceded for every 5.00 shots).

Please tell me some of you are getting it now (apologies to anyone who already got it and just didn't say anything).

meh I still think it's kind of a bent way of looking at it.
 
Well it really is purely just looking at one stat: shot stopping (and only over half a season, I've been talking about a full season just to make it clear it's over a lot of games, not individual ones). Look where Lehman is on there, bottom half...guess who was goalkeeper in their team of the season at the end of last year? In fact, guess who was their player of the season overall? Lehman.

In fact, here's their team of the season:

Lehman
Terry
Ferdinand
Toure
Stelios
Lampard
Gerrard
Ronaldo
Bent
Henry
Van Nistelrooy

Don't know why they chose a 3-4-3, no one plays that anymore, but there's not much to complain about all the same. That's because it looks at overall stats, not individual ones like the shot stopping, which is just interesting, not meant to show the whole picture.

You could of course look at individual stats for these players and others and try and find problems, but you'd have to dismiss the overall view for that. For example, Xabi Alonso is the best passer in the Premiership (just ahead of Lampard) and Michael Carrick had the best passing single game of the season (against Liverpool, interestingly enough). You could argue that one of those two should be in there, looking at just those.

Keeping on passing, aside from shots on target, good passing in the opposition half has the biggest sway on results. Surprisingly, shots off target and number of corners have virtually no effect on the outcome of a game (or maybe not surprising, given how freely Arsenal score despite being next to useless from corners). Same goes for free kicks given away or gained (though yellow cards do have an effect). Possession matters, but only half as much as a successful pass rate in the oposition's half.

And the stats tell us that, in midfield, Liverpool have 3 of the best passers in the game. Alonso, Gerrard and Sissoko are not only good at passing, they're consistently good at passing. Compare this to Chelsea and only Lampard is a consistently good passer, with Makelele and Essien both good passers, but inconsistent. You can begin to see why Liverpool have overrun Chelsea's midfield in recent games, despite Chelsea supposedly having an unbeatable midfield.

Again, this comes back to the point about not only looking at one stat for seeing how a team will do against another, but everything in combination. While it's true that consistently good passing in the opposition half is the second best stat for looking how results are swayed, it's absolute MILE behind the best sway, shots on target. So we can't say Liverpool should be beating Chelsea, as their strikeforce for the last couple of years has been terrible. And while you could argue Chelsea's hassn't been as good as it could be, they have midfielders who are shooting crazy.

Interestingly, Benitez may be making some mistakes with his team next year. He's got a striker who shoots on target a lot, which is excellent (and Fowler is another who will help, just didn't have enough games to last year), but he's after a right sided midfielder. Now if he intends to stick with a 4-4-2, that means dropping one of Sissoko, Gerrard and Alonso. You could stay he'd be better sticking with Gerrard on the right wing and concentrating on bringing in another striker.
 
Looking at the bottom three names on the keeper stats, i can believe them.


Im not supprised to see Carroll up there either, he played great for us last season, and every game i saw he made at least a few important (if not necessarily too challenging) saves.



The doubters do have a point though, id think Carroll and Fillan being up there is a direct result of West Ham and Wigan being favourites to go down last season, everyone (at least for the first half of the season) came out wanting three points home and away, and so ended up taking a lot of shots...id imagine both keepers will move down the list this season.
 
Ghost said:
The doubters do have a point though, id think Carroll and Fillan being up there is a direct result of West Ham and Wigan being favourites to go down last season, everyone (at least for the first half of the season) came out wanting three points home and away, and so ended up taking a lot of shots...id imagine both keepers will move down the list this season.

Possibly, but you could argue that teams more likely to have long shots against them are the ones with the best defences, as it's hard to get past them to get a clean shot in, whereas with teams perceived as weaker, the opposition may feel they can actually get at the defence.

Can't say either way without stats on how many long shots each team faces, which I don't have.
 
brooklyngooner said:
Wow. I forgot Roy Carroll existed. I forgot he went to West Ham, I figured he'd moved into the Home for Forgotten United Keepers, in a room between Mark Bosnich and Massimo Taibi.

:lol

Couple of tidbits...Ruud boy reported to United training camp Monday, though who knows how long that stay will be. Inter Milan is on the verge of grabbing Patrick Vieira for £8.9million. Crespo says he wants to return to Serie A, while almost everyone else who doesn't list pasta as their favourite meal is looking to flee it. Chelsea won't sell him cheap though. Good thing too...because Arsenal's rejected Chelsea's bid of £16 million, saying they can get back to them if they offer £25 million. This will no doubt piss off Cashley Cole, which was probably the point. :lol Arsenal are also looking at Lens midfielder Alou Diarra, someone they've had their eye on for a while.
 
I feel left out, not coming up with names for past favourites just about to move/just moved.

Craig Bellend

Paul Dick

Well that was easy.
 
The Manchester United Thead 2006/06 - Sponsored by Nothing Happening.


man yoo thread on another forum. Sums up things nice. ugh depressing. No midfield prospects, Ruud leaving with no replacement. Trying to buy goalkeepers :/
 
It does seem like time's running out, but I think that's mainly us being tricked by the Premiership (and Community Shield, Europe etc) starting before the transfer window closes. There's actually still over 5 weeks left to sign people.

And let's not forget that players as big as Owen and Rooney have been signed on the very last day of the transfer window before now.

Of course, you needed central midfielders in January too and nothing happened, so who knows?
 
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