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Official March NPD Thread (The story? PS3 = weak, SW sales = insane)
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
AdmiralViscen
Banned
jimbo said:
...You said that the Wii was selling to rabid N-fans and hardcore, and not to casuals.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
If the PS3 sales are weak, so are the X360's considering that it is $200 cheaper and has many more games available. I don't think the sales are bad at all for a $600 console.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
jimbo said:
so what you're saying is throw out the rest of the world and just count the NA market.
that's not what he's talking about
Dragona Akehi
Retired
jimbo said:
I can't believe you're still sticking with this argument.
The Wii is sold out worldwide. The GameCube never had this kind of selling momentum. EVER. How on earth can you say that it's selling to the hardcore Nintendo fans: GameCube would have done similar sales then. Don't give me "Zelda fans" either, because it would have done those kind of numbers with Mario or Wind Waker's release.
It never did. Not even when it hit 99$.
Whatever Nintendo has done, they've done something right, at least in terms of sales. While I enjoy my Wii, I'm not sure I want Wii to be this all-out success. HD is nice.
StingerNLG said:
Whatever you think about those games they are still million sellers. Eye toy play has almost sold 4 million and killzone sold over 2 million. metal gear, ratchet, gt 5 prologue, killzone, Eye Toy and singstar combined will sell more ps3's than halo 3 will sell xbox360's. Motorstorm was unproven but had potential. It finished up being an 8 out of 10 game and not many 8 out of 10 games will sell systems.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Dragona Akehi said:
That's my thought. I'm glad the X360 games are selling real well, because i don't want devs to leave making powerful epic, HD games.
I see the Wii right now kind of like an extension of the DS. Fun quirky games that are unique, but not as good looking as the PS3/X360 crowd. But i wouldn't want ALL my gaming to be the DS/Wii flavor.
The funny thing about this claim is that first I thought, "that's ridiciulous, he's comparing the selling power of six games combined to one." Then I realized that it's actually not that clear either way. Regardless, these "system seller" arguments should never try to venture anywhere near quantitative-land as they're almost totally immeasurable.
Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
Dragona Akehi said:
They're not against HD, they just think it's too early to focus on it, which isn't all that strange. Regardless of how well they're doing now you can expect them to jump in HD territory when it becomes standard, which by next generation it should be.
Dragona Akehi said:
Well for one I didn't say ONLY Nintendo fans, I said Nintendo fans AND Hardcore gamers.
And one reason the GC didn't do this is because everyone had other options at the sub-$300 price point. Including Nintendo fans that defected to PS2/Xbox.
Seriously, just think about what you're saying. A guy whose life is not revolved around videogames, plays them once in a blue moon is going to check multiple stores, make multiple phone calls, drive long distance on multiple days to get a videogame system?
This idea was not just brought up by me. It was also brought up in the EGM podcast. And it was also brought up in the "Wii not so great for EA" article that brought up the idea that the Wii is likely simply dividing up the hardcore user base, more than its bringing in casual gamers. History, and the fact that for every console ever launched the early adopters were always casual gamers, is also on my side.
Am I saying it's not selling to casual gamers? No. I'm saying the majority of Wii owners are about as hardcore gamers as the rest of us.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Azelover said:
Regardless, HD is nice, now.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
jimbo said:
Yes, I know what you're saying. And casuals can and will do it. Furby? Tickle-Me-Elmo? While Wii sales remain sustained after Christmas, it's not just hardcore gamers going for it. If it were, 360 sales would be in the shitter.
Hardcore demand cannot push sales like the PS2, SFC or Wii pushed sales. Hardcore players are insignificant.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Y2Kevbug11 said:
Paper Mario?
Shit, that's only 480p.
milanbaros
Member?
doicare said:
I'm not so sure. My bet will be on Halo 3.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Y2Kevbug11 said:
Fortunately HD CRTs don't have that problem: they're not nearly as "sharp" as 1080i stuff, but since it's CRT, it can do 480p "native" and looks really nice.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Y2Kevbug11 said:One of those in my dorm room would probably have to serve as both my TV and my desk.
Flat only. Has to be light to carry too!
I live in what used to be considered a closet. So don't give me that.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
Parch said:
I'd say the success of the DS is perfectly logical.
jimbo said:
The WW LTD is.. what.. 6m? If 3.5m of those are a "hardcore" majority, it's the remaining 2.5m which have pushed Wii to a market leadership position.
Personally, I'm not even sure the hardcore LTD share is even a majority. Anecdotally (har har), I know three people/families in real life who have Wiis, and only one of them (me) is a core/traditional gamer.
Nightstick11
Banned
jimbo said:
Since I was banned last week for using harsh language with you, I'm going to keep my post diplomatic.
There's a huge hole in your pet theory. The 360, "the console of the hardcore gamer", sold at a much slower pace than the Wii.
So what is it: The Wii is the hardcore gamer console of choice, or are hardcore gamers stingy?
gamergirly
Member
Rhazer Fusion said:
Price wise, they're comparable. But the only thing that matters is the bottom line. 130K is Gamecube level sales. Sony is saying that they are "thinking about dropping the price" but that's just damage control. There's no thinking to be done. They either drop the price or bail out of the console race for this generation.
StingerNLG
Member
doicare said:
It doesn't matter what I think about the games. Million sellers <> system sellers. Halo 3 will sell many more Xbox 360's than Killzone will PS3's. And why would people be waiting for the Eye Toy 2 when the 360 already has a camera that works quite well?
Again, you're not talking about system sellers. You MIGHT be talking about games that will sell well within the established userbase.
As for your 6-1 list, maybe. But right now PS3 has to deal with the fact that Gears of War, and Guitar Hero 2, Crackdown, etc: have all been helping to widen the base in the first place. And Folks waiting on GT might give Forza 2 a try once they see it.
And while I'm at it, Halo 3 isn't the only game coming out. Bioshock, Fable 2, Alan Wake, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Ace Combat 6, Halo Wars, are all hitting the 360 in that same timeframe. So your analogy of 6 games against 1 isn't exactly all there.
Halo 3 will sell more than Killzone and Eyetoy combined. Bet on that.
ok can some one help me out here i dont really know much about the console business but here is my plan for sony. someone tell me if i'm crazy
ok, sony unlike microsoft has a very strong brand name in the playstation brand. now we can all agree the reason why the ps3 is not selling is the price
now most console manufacturers make their money not from hardware but from software.
so wouldnt it better for sony to cut the price down by 150 dollars and sell it for 450 dollars( this i'm sure will be enough to boost sales)
so even though they will be losing money, by cutting the price the fact that sales will increase will mean software will also increase
it will also mean the adoption of bluray will increase as well, and the royalties from that could be huge making up for lost revenues form the price cut
in the uk they could cut the price from 425 to 299, and i'm definetely sure sales will skyrocket at the price
ok, sony unlike microsoft has a very strong brand name in the playstation brand. now we can all agree the reason why the ps3 is not selling is the price
now most console manufacturers make their money not from hardware but from software.
so wouldnt it better for sony to cut the price down by 150 dollars and sell it for 450 dollars( this i'm sure will be enough to boost sales)
so even though they will be losing money, by cutting the price the fact that sales will increase will mean software will also increase
it will also mean the adoption of bluray will increase as well, and the royalties from that could be huge making up for lost revenues form the price cut
in the uk they could cut the price from 425 to 299, and i'm definetely sure sales will skyrocket at the price
StingerNLG said:
well the thing is you have no idea how many of the xbox360 user base who are fans of halo have already brought the system before the game comes out. Eye toy is popular because people actually liked the games where as the xbox360 camera doesnt have any great games yet. The xbox360 does have some potentially great games coming out but most of them are unproven so anything can happen. i only mentioned proven games. The ps3 has a huge list of potentially great games as well such as lair, heavenly sword and drakes uncharted.
SouthernDragon
Member
Do I sense a distinct rise in panic in this thread?
So, we cannot judge PS3 sales from only 5 months. But, an increase for one month and a on month increase against the 360 is enough?
Awesome! Look, the PS2 is selling more than all current gen consoles, and GoW2 sold 800k! That's excellent.
But, wait, what's the system that supposed to be the new standard bearer doing?
Also, I agree about the declining sales of the Wii. Facts are facts, folks. They have been going down a significant amount since launch.
Nevermind that they did a true worldwide launch, have sold more in their 5 opening months than any other console ever, met and possibly surpassed their own and other's expectations, is consistently sold out everywhere (bar Mexico and Spain, apparently), and have droves of gamers and non-gamers searching it out every Sunday. Ah, don't forget the barometer of Ebay sales, where the PS3 is selling below RRSP, and the Wii sells for a nice 100$ above retail.
360 software sales are rather kickass. As for hardware sales... eh. I mean, it's 200k during a slow month, and may have been hindered by the announcement of an upcoming SKU. It's not tanking. Hey, I'd say they were poor if they sold, I dunno, 130k.
So, we cannot judge PS3 sales from only 5 months. But, an increase for one month and a on month increase against the 360 is enough?
Awesome! Look, the PS2 is selling more than all current gen consoles, and GoW2 sold 800k! That's excellent.
But, wait, what's the system that supposed to be the new standard bearer doing?
Also, I agree about the declining sales of the Wii. Facts are facts, folks. They have been going down a significant amount since launch.
Nevermind that they did a true worldwide launch, have sold more in their 5 opening months than any other console ever, met and possibly surpassed their own and other's expectations, is consistently sold out everywhere (bar Mexico and Spain, apparently), and have droves of gamers and non-gamers searching it out every Sunday. Ah, don't forget the barometer of Ebay sales, where the PS3 is selling below RRSP, and the Wii sells for a nice 100$ above retail.
360 software sales are rather kickass. As for hardware sales... eh. I mean, it's 200k during a slow month, and may have been hindered by the announcement of an upcoming SKU. It's not tanking. Hey, I'd say they were poor if they sold, I dunno, 130k.
StingerNLG
Member
doicare said:
Just as you have no idea who bought a PS3 because MGS4 and Ratchet are coming out on it. I would wager that a good amount of people who you think are holding off on the PS3 for those games are also the same type of people waiting for Halo 3 to get their 360. It's a number you don't know either, but you're automatically attributing to one side of it.
The difference that you also fail to understand about the Eye Toy vs. the Live Vision is that games are all the Eye Toy had. The Vision is a chat and web-cam as well, and is used by a ton of people playing XBLA games that support it, as well as face in-games like Rainbow Six: Vegas. Believe me, there are a ton of people out there with pics on their gamercards, and 1 out of every 4 people I play Uno online with use it. But again, what other games does the Eye Toy really have that people are going to wait to buy a PS3 for it? That's the question I'm looking for the answer to.
Your trust in Sony is admirable. And believe me, they need more people like you. But as long as the system costs $600, it's going to take all six of those games to beat one on the 360, and neither of them will beat the Wii. Unfortunately, I think you're also banking on a price drop that won't happen or will be too unsubstantial to make a big difference.
Joe Molotov
Member
jimbo said:
Yes.
squatingyeti
non-sanctioned troll
doicare said:
So you mean like when the 360 does the same? That will happen for both consoles. So, if they outsell them by 1M every year, when do they catch up? Hell, make it 2M.
KeithFranklin
Banned
At a meeting today I met a guy who purchased Crackdown for the Halo 3 beta, but doesnt have a 360 yet. He said he was hoping for a price drop before the beta came out. He now is going to pickup an Elite before May 16th.
Wonder if much of this is going on.
Wonder if much of this is going on.
StingerNLG said:
The ps3 right now has a smaller userbase compared the 360 and has more proven AAA games coming out this christmas, so it is far more likely that the amount of people going to buy a ps3 this christmas (for these games) is greater than the amount of people going to buy the xbox360 for halo 3.
The question you've got to ask yourself is do you think more people will buy the xbl vision camera so they can show their face on uno or put their face in rainbow six or do you think more people will buy the eye toy for the eye toy games. eye play by itself has nearly sold 4 million.
The price will drop for the ps3 and it will make a difference, how much of a difference, you'll have to wait and see.
squatingyeti said:
Ask a silly question, get a silly answer. The xbox360 is ahead of the ps3 by roughly 7 million, so using you hypothisis you pulled out of the air its not to hard to do the math yourself
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Daaangerous. If they lose an extra $150 per console, their next 10 million consoles lose them an additional $1,500,000,000.mabuza said:
...interesting numbers. Holy shit at DS again, and pokemon will hit in just a few days! :O
Since this is a five week months everything went down from last month, even DS and PS2 too. :O
PS3... wow. ****ing bad to say the least. And to make things worse Japanese sales are even worse, barely holding 10k+ last week in Japan. Something needs to happen Sony, now.
Since this is a five week months everything went down from last month, even DS and PS2 too. :O
PS3... wow. ****ing bad to say the least. And to make things worse Japanese sales are even worse, barely holding 10k+ last week in Japan. Something needs to happen Sony, now.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
doicare said:The ps3 right now has a smaller userbase compared the 360 and has more proven AAA games coming out this christmas, so it is far more likely that the amount of people going to buy a ps3 this christmas (for these games) is greater than the amount of people going to buy the xbox360 for halo 3.
The question you've got to ask yourself is do you think more people will buy the xbl vision camera so they can show their face on uno or put their face in rainbow six or do you think more people will buy the eye toy for the eye toy games. eye play by itself has nearly sold 4 million.
The price will drop for the ps3 and it will make a difference, how much of a difference, you'll have to wait and see.
Ask a silly question, get a silly answer. The xbox360 is ahead of the ps3 by roughly 7 million, so using you hypothisis you pulled out of the air its not to hard to do the math yourself
Sony spent billions on R&D alone(Cell - IIRC) and who knows how much on marketing the PS3. Unlike MS, which has a cash cow thanks to Windows, I don't think Sony can afford to drop $200 from PS3 and hope to recoup its losses through software sales.
That's a big gamble IMO.
StingerNLG
Member
doicare said:
That is a very assuming statement, and one that is not all that accurate in the grand scheme of things. The PS2 having a gazillion large userbase says the smaller userbase of the PS3 has no bearing on it's ability to grow faster or slower than anyone else's.
And again, you're ASSUMING that these franchises are just going to make a $600 game system worth having. And outside of a couple of those, still putting Killzone and an Eye Toy as a "AAA" title isn't a strong arguement.
4 million out of how many PS2's though? There are how many tens of millions of PS2's out there. Believe me, I don't know anyone in the good 20-25 people I know with PS2's who bought the Eye Toy. Anecdotal, yes. But let's not pretend the Eye Toy was a massive success because you could move flail your arms around and bust blocks.
Actually, YOU will have to wait and see. The fact you're sure of a price drop makes it clear you're looking for something that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
Ask a silly question, get a silly answer. The xbox360 is ahead of the ps3 by roughly 7 million, so using you hypothisis you pulled out of the air its not to hard to do the math yourself
Yet you jumped at yeti's question with an answer that wasn't even based on the question. Now that is silly.