Solomeena
Banned
Me and many other people are sick of the ever expanding launchers, we don't want 50 fucking launchers. Stop making excuses for Epic.
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Ok, Valve really has to lower their 30% revenue at this point.
- Thread starter Gamezone
- Start date
Me and many other people are sick of the ever expanding launchers, we don't want 50 fucking launchers. Stop making excuses for Epic.
nani17
are in a big trouble
I agree with you I've got
GOG
ORIGIN
STEAM
EPIC STORE
UPLAY
BATTLE NET
WINDOWS STORE(PRE-INSTALLED I THINK)
It's getting really annoying, to be honest.
Dada55000
Member
God the "30%" meme needs to fucking die. That's not the reason why anyone goes on EGS, it's payola moneyhats. Sweeney and co uses the 30% cut as their propaganda slander against Steam. Obviously, shitty anti consumer journos and shills keep repeating it non stop. Plus ignorant people that think 30% cut is "so unfair hueeg". The fucking retail cut from brick and mortar was 50%+.
Kadayi
Banned
I think Valve should look to make the share a bit more democratic for indie developers. However, it should be noted that they are also working on updates to Steam itself this year also: -
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamworks/announcements/detail/1697194621363928453
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Gamezone
Gold Member
Bethesda also have their own launcher now.
Arachnid
Member
I wonder how profitable their deal could be if they only take 5%. The payed the developers of Phoenix Point more than they had in backers/preorders (the devs said everyone could refund the game and they'd still have more than they did). I'm assuming they payed even more for highly anticipated titles like Metro and The Outer Worlds. Could 5% of all sales after release actually cover all that and give any kind of return?
nani17
are in a big trouble
JCK75
Member
LMAO
Fuck everyone who rewarded this bullshit by purchasing it on Epic store, that is all.
Holammer
Member
That sounds good, and inspires joy-joy feelings in me, yay INDIES!
But irrelevant when Epic is heavily curated and only allows the 1% to sell there.
Dada55000
Member
1. The bigger cut is "wont you pweeaseeee think of the devs" concern trolling bullshit, considering that for the entire duration of Steam's existence the 30% cut was fair and a far better alternative to physical stores cuts. Of course devs would go, "no no it's totes unfair", since the 'more money for meeeee' mentality is flagrant and obvious. I don't even blame them doing it, but people shilling it for them is another thing, because you're being a sucker taken for a ride.
2. Personally I don't give a shit about all the garbage that gets on Steam, much like you. I would prefer a more clean store. But, purely on sales for said niches of garbage, it works out for devs and consumers. Does little to make Steam look classy, but them's the breaks. A lot of the bellyaching about the volume comes from devs of mediocre garbage, that gets drowned out by other mediocre garbage like them. Of course in the past, when mediocre garbage was limited, they sold more than they would've leading to salt at how their shit is selling like it should now.
3. How does EGS shitting on Steam lead to better sales periods on either? Sweeney isn't rushing to revolutionise sales either. In general, EGS pricepoints are far worse overall for consumers, due to the lack of third party sellers, and even worse regional pricing models.
4. They just gave up. Not relevant to their business, but it does engender positivity in the brand, which is important. But, even if they did release games, the current situation would still exist, they just might have some more PR for them.
And none of these would help alieviate what's going currently. They have nothing to do with EGS getting games either. It's literally Fortnite money being funneled into business deals for the platform. It's not a natural wave that was caused by Steam failing, It's an artifical one caused by EGS muscling in and spending cash.
God, you are really susceptible to flimsy PR spin. The 2.5x includes Steam preorders+physical copies, for a game with several times the advertising compared to its far less known prior entry in the brand.
This is the gimmick here. Fucking Exodus had peak 12k concurrent on Steam, off of preorders when that was still available, while Last Light's peak concurrent ever was 16k. Like even on a base level, 2.5x is such a fucking non informative thing, which in itself is suspect because of the lack of concrete info. Then you get the context where they talked numbers regarding some dingy games immediately prior to that slide, but when it comes to their oh so great success here, they throw a vague multiple? How gullible do you have to be to not see bullshit?
So their great accomplishment is:
EGS Sales (that doesn't have 3rd party key sellers)+honored Steam preorders+Physical copies = 2.5 times Steam sales of Last Light (which wouldn't include 3rd party key sites, as their sales are tallied seperately.)
wow, such fair and equal metrics, and this isn't even taking into account Last Light specific launch details
KonradLaw
Member
Division 2 isn't Epic exclusive. Also...look at how many big releases Steam already had this year. Epic will never win against Steam in numbers of games, either overall new releases or even big one. They just trying to get enough to make people comfortable with buying there on their own instead of doing it only when they have no choice.
Also..no way in hell next Assassin;s Creed won't launch on Steam.
In the end I find that stuff like this is good for the consumer. It will force Valve to up it's game or they will start to lose market share. Sure it sucks at the beginning when exclusives go to one platform, or another, but fuck valve having a monopoly on this stuff. Monopolies are not good for you and I.
We need a launcher for the launchers
The joke is becoming in the business world you need a subscription to manage your subscriptions. What do you know, there is a product for that.
https://www.bettercloud.com/product/manage/
CuNi
Member
Division 2 and all Ubisoft games are only on EGS to push uPlay more. They said it themselves.
Quantic Dreams releasing on EGS is no coincidence either as they have taken a major investment from chinese company NetEase. So ofc games like Detroid, Heavy Rain etc. get a EGS exclusive PC deal. But Heavy Rain is 8 years old already anyway.
Exodus is like you said timed and I can't find any official confirmation or even talk about the next Assassin's Creed game being EGS exclusive.
Outer Worlds will also be available on the Windows 10 Store and Ancestors: The Humankind Odyssey will come to Steam after 1 year so it's just a timed exclusive as well.
Suddenly, it doesn't sound like Epic got that much going for them, eh?
KonradLaw
Member
Most of absolutely biggest pcgames never were on Steam to begin with. And while Epic is scummy it's not a bad thing to get people used to using more than one store, especially with how censorship happy Valve is becoming.
Plus Epic is just annoyance. Every single exclusive they moneyhatted will be on Steam after a year, so long term all their nonsense isn't a big loss for the platform.
Timrock8
Neo Member
I think Valve should go with their original Steam Machine plan with Biofeedback. If it works out Devs that want to use biofeedback in their game will be forced to pay Steam 30%
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/valve-at-gdc-biofeedback-in-gameplay-video-excerpts.423644/
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/valve-at-gdc-biofeedback-in-gameplay-video-excerpts.423644/
nani17
are in a big trouble
The joke is becoming in the business world you need a subscription to manage your subscriptions. What do you know, there is a product for that.
https://www.bettercloud.com/product/manage/
JCK75
Member
There is so much more to this than just "Number of Launchers"
Epic was never prepared to deal with sales, I've used Steam since the day it launched, that's what 16 years now? number of times my data has been compromised 0
I've only used Epic for the last 2 years, number of times data compromised - 3
Not only that but the platform was so shitty that all someone needed was your email to just shut you out of your own account anytime.
TheShadowLord
Member
Define annoying. Cause the only thing I see is annoying is having multiple passwords. I rather just sign up/log-in using my gmail account. I don't understand the stance of this "having to install too many apps" is consider to be annoying. They don't use a lot of space nor do they take long to open up
nani17
are in a big trouble
Windows store are you mad
Timed exclusives most people want to play the games now not wait for a year plus when it arrives on steam a year later what do you think Epic will do obvious drop the price. What's steam going to do, sale a year old game that's on the same platform(PC) for 60 dollars.
. I'm not defending Epic here but for people to say steam doesn't need to do anything is stupid IMO.
They're a company that is losing money and please don't say they have plenty of money they don't care.
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CuNi
Member
Windows store are you mad
Timed exclusives most people want to play the games now not wait for a year plus when it arrives on steam a year later what do you think Epic will do obvious drop the price. What's steam going to do, sale a year old game that's on the same platform(PC) for 60 dollars.
. I'm not defending Epic here but for people to say steam doesn't need to do anything is stupid IMO.
They're a company that is losing money and please don't say they have plenty of money they don't care.
Erm... first off, Steam doesn't set the price for games, it's the publisher.. so if they set it to 60 bucks, it's their fault not steams and second, why would they put the game 1 year later for 60 bucks on steam?
That argument already doesn't make any sense. And please tell me how "most people" want to play these games?
Most people are fed up with multiple launchers and even if we throw in the crowd of "I want the dev to get the most money of my purchase" into it.. where do you think people will buy most copies of Division 2?
Hmm... on the one hand, I got the developers official store, the uPlay-Launcher, where I probably already have a couple of games.. and then there is this new guy, who sells me this game too, but takes a 12% cut and gives me a uPlay Version just like rainbow six siege anyway. If you think Division 2 sells most copies on Epic's store, then I can already see where the issue comes from people thinking steam needs to act now.
Other games like Satisfactory which are a 1 year exclusive deal even fuck with epic as they are being launched as "early access" games so in roughly 1 year when the game leaves early access.. where do you think it will also be available?
Correct, most likely Steam. And weirdly I hear more people say "fuck epic" nowadays or "I will just wait a year for this then", than people saying epic is our new saviour and bringing in the competition!
Epic is doing nothing right at this moment if we're being honest. Games are not cheaper outside the US, it creates a monopoly by moneyhatting exclusives, which is anti consumer and actually kills competition because if anything it will provoke other shops to get exclusives too, fragmenting the market, feature wise it is so far behind steam I can't even start to name all the issues their store has and what features it's missing before actually being somewhat competitive.
People thinking that Steam and Valve are losing money because Epic is throwing their money out left and right are actually bonkers. How long do you think can you sustain a company policy that consist of buying and promising sales on your store without having actual performance numbers of the said store and your only bullet point is "but we got that many Fortnite players!".
Airola
Member
I checked out Steamspy and they say Metro: Last Light Redux has sold around 2,000,000 - 5,000,000.
At first I thought 2.5x is pretty damn well.
Then I realized, ok, they didn't say Last Light REDUX. They just mentioned Last Light. If they are actually meaning Metro: Last Light and not Metro: Last Light Redux, that original version hasn't been on Steam probably since Redux was released which was in 2014 whereas the original was released in 2013. I think there's no way the original ever sold as much as Redux. probably not even close to. And I think they are purposefully avoiding comparison to the Redux version sales numbers.
N00bWarrior
Neo Member
dude, it is more than 100% just look at Randy's twitter.
nani17
are in a big trouble
So if they don't set it at 60 bucks and lower it steams return is less money than if it was 60. You think steam is happy with that and doesn't need to do anything that's the topic.
Games here are 60 as well not sure anyone else in Europe
Yeah, that's why I said it. It more than likely happening
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CuNi
Member
They also don't say if they mean lifetime sales, first week sales, what period etc.
They just say "We got 2.5x times more than on Steam!" and you don't even know what they mean so that statement is basically useless in its current form.
I mean I'm glad that it worked out for them, but that doesn't change the fact that such barebone statements are worthless in every context.
No offense, but I don't quite understand what you are trying to say in that post.
If you try to say that if they don't set it to 60, that they will earn less on steam than on epic then.. yes ofc. Epic takes a 12% cut and steam between 20 - 30%. But that's not the point, is it?
About games being 60 bucks for you too, that's what my actual point was. Epic was promoting on giving the players a lower game price because of the lower cut they take so companies can charge less while still getting the same money, but unfortunately that only is available in the US afaik. The rest of the world pays full 60 bucks even though the dev get a bigger cut of the money.
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RokkanStoned
Member
Meh, outside of giving a bigger cut, I'd say your suggestions would have little effect. After all, Steam is not a console, so you're not really beating out another store by having them invest in yours (if so, Epic has already lost) and some competition is good. Anyways, Epic has yet to have any noticeable exclusive IPs in my opinion and you need to generally beat Steam hard on both available games and features, to be able to outdo them. Otherwise it'll be like all the other developer stores, where a few games get people to buy the game, but will quickly go back to Steam and their huge libraries there.
nani17
are in a big trouble
No, I'm saying if they had a game that wasn't exclusive and launched for 60 both on steam and epic sure epic makes more money but steams makes what they've always made than there's no issue
However, because of the exclusivity, there's no way the game sales a year later for 60 bucks it would have to be at a lower price meaning steam loses plenty of money.
dust bunny
Member
The publishers are the ones deciding what the actual discounts are, they are the ones you should direct this complaint towards. Steam only host the events.
CuNi
Member
Steam doesn't care. That's the point. Steam would love for all games to be on all platforms, believe me.
Steam is doing SO much for developers, that's why I don't get all the hate for steam.
Steam allows you, as a developer, to generate Keys (in reasonable amounts) for FREE and sell them with 100% profit. Steam does not take a fee for key generation and all the money you make with that key are yours to keep.
Steam is not that greedy guy who wants to make the most money, ofc they are a company so their final goal IS money, but they won't make you go out of your way to sell on steam. Steam even allows you to host servers on the Steam backend, for free. That's in the 20 - 30% cut already. Want Steam MP integration? Just do it, its free. Want achievements? Integrate them and they are good to go! Want to allow Mods? Steam got a workshop for you! Steam Cloud Saves? Nvidia would say "it just works!". I think a cut of 20 to 30% is more than reasonable by all the heavy lifting steam is doing for its customers.
nani17
are in a big trouble
Then why did they change revenue agreement gives more money to game developers if they don't care. They done it because devs were leaving to go to the other store
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jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Exactly. Publishers get to decide where they can make the most money publishing. They choose the marketplaces and they choose the prices for their products. We as consumers just sit by on the sidelines and either choose to make a purchase, or to not.
If Epic didn't have some questionable business practices or literal spyware in their application and all other factors were the same, would we even care? Would publishers? Would Valve?
Fuz
Banned
Fuz
Banned
It's also money that will not go to devs, but to publishers.
(Except of course some indies)
CuNi
Member
Because if you make 10mil on steam, they take 25% and if you make more than 50mil they take 20%.
If you made 50mil on steam already and continue to sell, how much money do you think they already made with you.
First 10mil are 30%
10 to 50mil are 25%
and 50mil + are 20% cut.
If you move yourself in such numbers of sales, even 20% equals to a huge amount of money for steam and with this revenue split they create more incentives for big triple A publishers to release their games on steam trying to reach for that 50 mil which ends up profiting the publishers by a lower cut and steam by a shitton of money made even with the lower cut.
That's called being clever. You don't have to go as low as 12% as epic does. If you promise people 20% if they already sold 50mil, big publishers will take the call whenever they can and steam will still make more than enough of money off them.
nani17
are in a big trouble
Is there any date on when?
Gamezone
Gold Member
No date. They have kept talking about the UI overhaul since forever. Three years ago they said it was scheduled for release during the summer of 2017. Earlier this year they released a road map saying it will be released sometime this year.
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CuNi
Member
Yeah Valve will stick to their Valve Time format. It's equally funny as annoying IMHO.
I'm already so much used to the store, I'm not sure if a new one will increase or decrease my productivity with it. Like I genuinely don't think it's a very bad shop, though it could use a lot of backend optimizations to be faster.
I'm looking forward to Valve to kick me off my socks with the new client anyway. Steam Friends has some quirks that I hope will get ironed out once all of Steam runs on the new client though.
Gamezone
Gold Member
It's funny, but it's also becoming a problem. If Epic stick to their road map, they will have most features Valve has to offer by the end of this year. This took Valve more than a decade, while Epic seem to be working overtime in order to push out these features as fast as possible.
CuNi
Member
I don't think so. I haven't seen any mention of "free servers to host your games" in their roadmap. People forget that Steam is more than just a storefront.
Also there is just so many features your storefront can have before it begins to be cluttered by features. I find it rather disturbing that Epic released WITHOUT those features, not that they will eventually catch up. But that's just my opinion.
Heebie Jeebies
Banned
Even if Valve changed the revenue %, Epic would still continue to buy exclusives, so that would be utterly pointless.
The Fortnite money wasn't pouring in for all that long, and they probably did not want to assume it would continue pouring in at the same rate by delaying launch until they had a feature set.
I think some of you are delusional. Steam doesn't need to do anything. Their service is superior and user base huge. Games are going on the epic store because of the guaranteed upfront money. If and when both stores get the game the massively more popular steam store will win. Microsoft bought timed exclusives last generation and Sony still beat them in the end.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
Epic is ripping apart absolutely nothing. Anything that is exclusive on Epic automatically goes to my torrent / crack in waiting list. The scene groups have it down to an art, typically <3-5 days. sometimes day 1. Steam is still BY FAR the superior platform. Epic is little more than a half broken launcher.
Come back to me in a year or two, and see the proportion of profit each platform has made on the pc market, especially when the battle royale fad dies and epic is left without a fortnite to bankroll such anticompetitive behaviour.
Come back to me in a year or two, and see the proportion of profit each platform has made on the pc market, especially when the battle royale fad dies and epic is left without a fortnite to bankroll such anticompetitive behaviour.
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